Both Sides of the Family

[Cosmo]

I wonder if others here share elements of my experience. So, my mother is unBPD, I think, and my spouse’s parents are Ns. My MIL is an active alcoholic and my spouse is in recovery with over 10 years sober. My spouse and I have been together for over 20 years now, got together young, and learned how to individuate from our parents and take care of ourselves as young adults, with much still to learn, but we are better off than ever.

One of my big lessons that lead to several NC stints and a very LC current relationship with my own mother was to put the partnership with my spouse first. My mother had been emotionally present for years in a disruptive way, and through much therapy, I began to see that and put some distance between us, signifying that my relationship with my spouse was the primary one I had to preserve.

My spouse has been grappling with his relationship with MIL for years, and though he and I are in different places, I really try to support his pacing and journey as he tries to define the appropriate level of contact for him. It gets frustrating sometimes, though. For example, I have been greyrocking my mother for years. I learned to do this instinctively after her prying, manipulation, and competitiveness made me miserable and I realized that no matter what I tried, I would never have the mother I needed. For his part, my spouse does not do that. He shares quite openly with his mother, and though he won’t visit and stay with her or have her visit him, she is very up to date on our lives. Sadly, he gets upset when, after he has shared sensitive information, she gossips about him to family, or when he describes a challenge he is going through, she gives him unsolicited advice. Though he knows he could change his behavior and have less contact or share less personal info when he does, he seems to be a little stalled in a stage where he is trying to get something she will never be able to give. It’s hard to see him like that, and sometimes it also makes me angry because I feel like I have had to work a lot, be brave, and sacrifice for the relationship I’m trying to cultivate with him, and he may not be willing or able to do the same.

Yesterday, after a fun Friendsgiving with some chosen family, we visited my BILs family to see them and MIL who was in town. It was a decision that was made within our agreed-upon boundaries, and we were both nervous about it but committed to going because my spouse wanted to feel he had checked the box of seeing her.

As everyone sat around, my spouse, in his nervousness, begins to share all about our life, the new city we live in (which he told MIL he did not want to be visited in), and it just feels like he is uncontrollably putting our stuff out there. I got uncomfortable, and I still am. It feels like he went rogue, somehow, and implicitly invited my MIL deeper into our lives without warning me or at least checking with me. When I asked about the conversation, he said he didn’t want to banish her from ever visiting us, and I said I understood, but that I felt a little blindsided. He’s not been able to get past this and accuses me of wanting to fight all day (I don’t) after we made it over a hurdle. I’m feeling hurt, and I know we can work through it, but it’s hard sometimes to live with these challenges. Thanks for this space to share without fear of judgement. I really need this forum right now,

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Cosmo,

I can appreciate your situation. I am not in contact with FOO nor ILs. Holiday weekends are very quiet.

It sounds like the bond between your husband and his mother is still there. I wonder if you have a sense of why he shared that information with her?

I agree with you, that in a marriage, it is great if the partners can understand each other. That is a big part of a solid marriage.

As I read your post I did wonder if you think it will be possible to tell him more about how you feel, once the incident is not so fresh? He probably didn't want to defend his behaviour at the visit and defend what he did. Maybe he isn't even sure if it was right or wrong, or maybe he feels quite confident that he wanted his mom to know these things about his life (your shared life).

How you felt during and after that visit are totally valid. You see your MIL for who she is, and you know what is a safe distance from her, given how she behaves and who she is. But when we see our MIL for who she is, it doesn't mean our partner is ready to do same - so I feel your frustration on this front.

In my experience, getting Out of the FOG requires the person to grapple with the reality of who their parent actually is / was. Not who they wanted them to be. This is huge, and a lot of people spend their entire life with some denial about how their parent treats them. It is a process to come to terms with who our parent is, and that a close relationship with them will never be safe for us. I hear you in terms of the frustration that your partner does not see what you see.

In a marriage, I think it is common for one person to be in less denial than the other, since it is a personal journey to do this work on ourselves (as you know!).

It is very hard to reckon with who our parents are, what they want from us, and what role they should have in our lives as adults. For many many people, there's a lot of FOG there.

Additionally, for some folks, as their parents age, their empathy ramps up, and then combined with lingering FOG, they (the adult child) have to fight a lot of internal 'pull' that keeps them bonded to that parent emotionally. Even as adults, it is scary to truly emotionally individuate from our own parent, even when we cognitively know it is good for our own health and our own marriages.

I don't know if I have much to share that is helpful but wanted to write out what I see in your post, and validate that how you feel is very understandable.

Trees

[Cosmo]

Trees, thank you for your thoughtful and insightful comments; I needed both the reflection and the validation. I was just getting caught up in a spiral of feeling like the adult in my partnership, when in reality, I have seen us both grow and mature so much over the years. I left home at 17, had a deep need to be independent, and I tend not to express my needs as clearly as I could (or really always know what they are). Your questions are helping me to see things more clearly, or at least to consider some different elements of the situation.

I think you're right that my spouse may have more to say about his motivations, or that he may not know them, and I can empathize with that so much. It's so hard to even begin to let go of the need for a mother who mothers, no matter what our age. I can deeply relate to that, and maybe that's also a big part of my frustration. It's hard to witness the suffering under those surface-level feelings and behaviors. I certainly saw a lot of anxiety in him, even just a fear of a few moments of quiet, lest his mother say something cruel or guilt-inducing. It could be a good idea to revisit this with him after some time has passed.

Part of my discomfort is also rooted in my own fear of not being on the same page with my partner. Complete matching of my emotions to hers was a requirement with my mother throughout my childhood, if I wanted life to be manageable, but I know intellectually that I'm not in that environment anymore. I am working on staying aware of my feelings when my opinions and ideas diverge from his.

As I reflect on your comments, I remember how important it is for me to take care of myself in this situation. I can be supportive of him while also looking after myself, taking the time I need, too.

You described your holiday weekends as being quiet. That sounds pretty good right now. I hope that yours has been an enjoyable one. Thank you again for your response.

Cosmo

[bloomie]

Hi Cosmo! What an unexpected turn of events for you. I can relate so well to being blindsided by my own DH, who is by nature very reserved and holds things close to the vest, suddenly word vomiting details about our shared life to his family members who have demonstrated they are not safe.

Sitting in silence as this happens is painful! I am really sorry. But, also so thankful to hear of the incredible steps you have taken together to grow beyond difficult family dynamics and strengthen your lives!!!

What is tricky about this issue facing you is it is a mixed bag from where I sit on this side of the screen... part of it is your H's to figure out and part of it belongs to both of you.

So, this is about access. Am I understanding that correctly? To personal and private information about your lives. If the info being shared is solely your DH's sensitive info - you can cringe and sure wish he hadn't shared it for his sake, and wait for what may be the inevitable.. for his mother to mishandle that trusted info and him to be disappointed and hurt. But ultimately, It is his to decide what he does about that. And painful to witness.

When it is shared private information it is important to define the boundaries around if, when, how and with whom you share. We do this as married people all of the time. It is part of healthy, stable behavior. We don't talk with the mail person about our finances, we don't blurt out about your DH's recovery to the barista or a coworker. We honor and protect our lives in this way all of the time.

If a person, any person, misuses your confidences and uses it to gossip, malign, and hurt you - either of you - then it is only wise to no longer allow that person that level of access to your private lives. And you wisely thinking that you need to find a place of agreement around this is not the same as matching emotions with someone imho. You are doing life together based on trust and loyalty and part of that is negotiating the boundaries you are both okay with around access.

This doesn't have to be about his mother at all, but this latest over share is a perfect example to work from if you decide to go there. This can be a broader conversation about protecting each other and limiting access to your emotional, spiritual, financial, private lives to only those who have proven themselves trustworthy and edifying to you both.

In my DH's family there is an expectation that in laws will have total access to our lives. Every part of our lives. They have misused that access greatly, but the expectation is that we will absorb the pain of that, the betrayal of that and not adjust their intimate position in our lives. When faced with that kind of arrogant, dominating behavior from his parents and knowing the drama fallout he will face if he doesn't acquiesce, my DH has, in the past, folded like house of cards and impulsively blurted out our private info. I think in large part to attempt to avoid future conflict and to please a mother who is never pleased. 

It has taken time, patience, and a commitment to keep working through this stuff to finally come to a place where we have healthy boundaries around that work for both of us. Let me say that as DH began to kindly implement the information diet and limited access to our lives with his family it was a rocky road (not the good kind, the rocky road ice cream kind  ) and can still, some years later, be an area mil attempts to breach and exhibits a great deal of bitterness around. I guess, I'm saying you may have steps forward and there may be faltering, but if you continue to hold onto to each other and stay connected and communicating you will get there. I feel certain you will!

Rooting for you both as you take this as an opportunity to grow and develop your relationship together!!! Keep coming back! You are most certainly not alone and this is tough stuff!!

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Cosmo,

I am glad that you are feeling reflective and that you can see, as Bloomie points out as well, you are not alone in dealing with this FOG stuff.

Individuating from a parent without going VVVLC or NC is the natural, normal course of life. But for those of us with emotionally immature / abusive parents, it is very very hard to find the space where we can safely individuate and for a lot of us, VLC or NC or VVVLC are our only sane options for individuating. And it is hard.

When a parent is not a PD...when a parent can see their adult child's accomplishments, celebrate them, and really and truly honour the life their adult child has made for themselves, that is what the natural course of things should be, and I think we all crave the emotions that come from having that mature, present, capable parent who can see us for the independent adults that we are.

But if a PD or illness or active addiction is in the mix, the parent probably can't do those things - and very unlikely that they are reliably a positive force in the life of their adult child. I am sad for your partner who was sharing about his adult life, to someone he grew up with, and he probably just wanted her to attune to him and be happy for him regarding the things he told her about his life? Sounds like he was sharing info that most adults are proud of, and want their parents to be proud of too.

We all, each one of us wanted to feel deeply loved and cherished by our biological parents. We want to see our parents express pride and appreciation and other emotions for us. But for some of us, that is just not realistic. So when you describe that your partner goes into a more child-like (fearful) state around his mother, and blurts out info that probably crossed the boundaries you had agreed upon regarding what to share with her, it makes sense. That desire to be seen and loved never goes away. No matter how old we are.

Holidays bring us into contact with FOO, or feelings from our FOO system. I have mixed feelings about these holidays because they interrupt the LC / VLC / VVVLC lifestyle that a lot of people worked so hard to create (for their own sanity)! Then along comes Thanksgiving and the other big holidays and we are brought back to reckoning with our FOO or feelings about our FOO.

Adult children of parents with mental illnesses or PD's - we live without the experiences that other people 'get' to have. Holidays like Thanksgiving only highlight this for us.

I went NC because I knew that I could not heal and remain enmeshed in my FOO at the same time. It was one or the other. I could not do both. Like you, I saw that my own relationships would suffer if I kept my FOO in my life. I couldn't have both. Either I had them in my life, or I had my own life - without them involved. None of them wanted to heal from the years of damage and dysfunction they had suffered. If they had, I might have kept them near me because healing on my own has been quite lonely. But they want to stay in their dysfunction. Several of them use alcohol to cope. That is not something I could be a part of, without it affecting my life in really damaging ways.

His desire for a loving mother is not in conflict with the marriage, in my opinion. Each one of us with PD parents has to find a way to grieve for the parents we don't have, and never had. For a lot of couples this involves learning what that grief work feels like, and how to support one another in it.

I have found that grief work is where we really 'level up' as adults - because like you said, matching your emotions to your mother's emotions was required due to her BPD. I get that. My narcissistic mother made no room for any of my emotional needs. Ever. When I started to do grief work, I had to backtrack a lot and realize that in general, I had not had any safe spaces to emote. And so starting to emote by learning to grieve felt impossible at times. Of all the emotions we can feel as humans, grief is a complicated one.

As the daughter of a narcissistic mother, I had been very well trained out of emotional self-care early on in life. I had not developed 'normally' because she interrupted that. As a child, I surely was not taught how to grieve, because no PD parent is going to give their child space to learn about any of her own emotions. I suspect that you can relate.

I hear you about the self-care. Taking care of ourselves well after growing up with PD parents is a learning process. The self-care gets easier the more that we do it. This is an important season for us to encourage each other with the self-care!!

Trees