H went NC with MIL, what’s my game plan?

[square]

I just want to sound this out.

A few months ago, H announced to MIL he was done and did not want any contact or relationship. I support him.

H was already VVVVVLC and I was VVLC. There has been no contact since the blowup, but there likely would have been no contact in this interval anyway.

MIL had been in the habit of mailing a box of Christmas gifts around the first week of December. She usually texts me to let me know they are on the way, and I usually text her my and DD's thanks (let's ignore that I should not be texting DD's thanks).

I do not send her any gifts and have not done so for years.

I would be very surprised if she does not send a box. She is likely stressed about this, but only her son explicitly went NC, so like any reasonable person she will not want to cut DD and I off with the gifts. So I am expecting a text in the next couple of weeks or so, and need to decide.

Am I just going to play along with continued VVLC? Or actually go NC with her myself, dropping yet another bomb?

H will not care what I do. It won't affect him either way. He's NC and she cannot reach him. He could not care less if she does or doesn't send gifts. He doesn't care if I reply to her texts or not.

I am okay replying to her texts and thanking her for the gifts.

If she texts me about H, I will swerve her. I'm not talking to her about H, and definitely not passing along any messages. I've already implemented this for a couple of years.

So far so good. But. I do NOT want to talk to her on the phone. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am thinking this is my line. If she calls me, I'll text her back. If she demand a call, I think I will just text a bunch of excuses that she will know are bs but oh well.

I'm inadequate to her anyway. I'm childish, inappropriate, immature, etc., anyway. Why should I suffer a phone call for no benefit?

[donutmoonpanda]

Instead of hammering out exactly what you will do in whatever situation that arises this holiday season, perhaps it's important to first ask yourself a few questions.

If your spouse "will not care" no matter what you do, then who are you doing this for? How does this benefit you or your family? These are a lot of hoops to jump through for someone who thinks you're "childish, inappropriate, immature, etc." Are you planning out all this minutiae because maybe you feel afraid? What are you afraid of? Is fear the basis of this relationship with MIL and is that reason enough? Do you really need a game plan or is it time to drop the charade and finally do whatever feels good for you?

She usually texts me to let me know they are on the way, and I usually text her my and DD's thanks (let's ignore that I should not be texting DD's thanks).

This really can't be ignored. It's the crux of the issue. How much are you tending to MIL in an effort to sidestep her unwanted behaviors and why? Doesn't it in some way fly in the face of supporting your spouse and being a unified front? After all it is DH's parent.

I apologize if these questions feel uncomfortable, but they may be more important than the minute planning of how to respond to someone who has historically problematic behavior (presuming that is the case with your MIL). In the end no matter what you plan, someone with personality problems can respond in any way they want whenever they want. It can be precipitated by nothing on your part. That's why walking on eggshells really never works.

[square]

Thanks, I do like thinking through questions to challenge my assumptions.

—- If your spouse "will not care" no matter what you do, then who are you doing this for?

Definitely just for me, just wanted to clarify that my H was not a factor here, neither for nor against any continued contact.

—- How does this benefit you or your family?

Continuing contact, you mean? None either way to my family. For me, it's about whatever I can find the most peace with.

—- These are a lot of hoops to jump through for someone who thinks you're "childish, inappropriate, immature, etc."

Not sure it's a lot of hoops; I don't think a box of Christmas gifts is weird, or a texted heads up. I don't think talking to one's MIL on the phone a few times a year is lot either. The issue is the phone calls are stressful.

—- Are you planning out all this minutiae because maybe you feel afraid?

I'm not sure what minutiae there is. I just want to figure out how I will respond to a highly likely upcoming contact, that's all. I definitely feel afraid.

—- What are you afraid of? Is fear the basis of this relationship with MIL and is that reason enough?

Yes, fear permeates my relationship with MIL. She is very disapproving and has enablers in the family who echo her disapproval. I am a people pleaser and I find it difficult to have someone disapprove so strongly.

I've made progress over the years installing limits, but I need to feel okay with my choices in order to hold up against the onslaught. If I feel like maaaaybe I acted childish or inappropriate, I won't be able to maintain my integrity against the blowback.

—- Do you really need a game plan or is it time to drop the charade and finally do whatever feels good for you?

I'm not sure what the difference is. I'm trying to figure out what my authentic choices are, so "plan" and "right choices" are one and the same for me.

—- (re: me thanking MIL on behalf of DD as well as myself) This really can't be ignored. It's the crux of the issue.

As a parent, I definitely should be ensuring DD does her own thanking. I don't consider it the crux of the issue, though. The crux is about me, not DD.

—- How much are you tending to MIL in an effort to sidestep her unwanted behaviors and why?

I absolutely do tend to MIL to "keep her calm" by making the phone calls she demands but I do not want to make. Writing the original post helped me find this as a red line I want to draw.

—- Doesn't it in some way fly in the face of supporting your spouse and being a unified front? After all it is DH's parent.

I'd be curious about other people's opinions here. Under the circumstance of H sincerely not caring even a little if I continue any type of contact or not, should I be seeing this as a united front situation, or as two seperate relationships/choices?

What if H caves at some point and reinitiates contact? I doubt he will for a long time but can't rule out that in a couple of years he might. Would I then maintain NC alone and take incoming on that, or deal with the fallout of reestablishing contact with someone who would have even more to hold against me than ever?

I am making a long term plan to leave H, that may or may not be a factor, I don't know.

—- I apologize if these questions feel uncomfortable, but they may be more important than the minute planning of how to respond to someone who has historically problematic behavior (presuming that is the case with your MIL).

Thank you, I appreciate it!

[moglow]

—- What are you afraid of? Is fear the basis of this relationship with MIL and is that reason enough?

Yes, fear permeates my relationship with MIL. She is very disapproving and has enablers in the family who echo her disapproval. I am a people pleaser and I find it difficult to have someone disapprove so strongly.

Okay I'll play: what if she does disapprove? Does that change your day to day existence? Are you dependent on her "approval" and is there any actual benefit for your life? Inconvenient it might be, certainly aggravating to have people echo same, but really. What changes for you? That approval/disapproval is still just her opinion. Not your stuff, Square.

My point, some people are always going to disapprove or disagree and that's okay. You still get to decide whether or not you have or want any real relationship with them.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I think you've answered your own question. You are fine with the Christmas gift text ritual for now, if it happens. You do not wish to discuss your H and not see or speak to her on the phone ever. Okay. Sounds like you have those boundaries in place already.

I agree with Mo... time to practice your, "So what?"

[Poison Ivy]

The thing that would be hardest for me if I were in your situation, square, would be deciding what, if anything, to tell my child. This would be regardless of whether I chose to stay VLC or decided to go NC.

Right now, I'm mad at one of my brothers, and I don't know whether I'll ever stop feeling mad. I've considered venting to my adult children, but I think that might not be appropriate at this point. They are close to their cousins (my brother's adult children), and I don't want my children to feel as though they need to pick a side. (I assume my brother's children will be told something about the situation, and that they will pick their father's side. That's their business.)

[Cat of the Canals]

I think you've answered your own question. You are fine with the Christmas gift text ritual for now, if it happens. You do not wish to discuss your H and not see or speak to her on the phone ever. Okay. Sounds like you have those boundaries in place already.

I agree with Mo... time to practice your, "So what?"

This. It is perfectly reasonable to not want to speak to someone (anyone) on the phone. Period.

For what it's worth, I have never and (knock on wood) will never speak to my MIL on the phone, even before I was Out of the FOG. Neither me nor my husband like talking on the phone on top of the fact that having to talk to our own mothers is chore enough, so we've always had an unspoken agreement that the spouse never has to engage in phone calls with the in-laws. I would guess there are even non-PD families where this is the norm.

You say that talking to MIL a few times a year isn't a big deal. Well, neither is simply NOT doing so. I do understand where you're coming from, though. My mother taught me to never say no to a reasonable request. "Oh, would it really hurt you so bad to just _____?" It's an insidious kind of damage to always rate everyone else's wants above your own because they are "reasonable." Because my wants are also reasonable, and sometimes I want to NOT do whatever someone is asking of me. It's not childish to have limits. It's not childish to say, "I'm really not interested in speaking with this person."

I would prepare a few responses for if/when she does demand a call. If you want to be vague, something like, "Not able to do that today, maybe another time!" I do think you could lean on your husband being NC if you wanted to put the phone call question to bed for good ("I feel uncomfortable talking on the phone given everything with H, but texting would be OK."), unless bringing that up is the kind of thing that would rile her up.

I'd be curious about other people's opinions here. Under the circumstance of H sincerely not caring even a little if I continue any type of contact or not, should I be seeing this as a united front situation, or as two seperate relationships/choices?

What if H caves at some point and reinitiates contact? I doubt he will for a long time but can't rule out that in a couple of years he might. Would I then maintain NC alone and take incoming on that, or deal with the fallout of reestablishing contact with someone who would have even more to hold against me than ever?

I am making a long term plan to leave H, that may or may not be a factor, I don't know.

My feeling, in general, is that it should probably be a united front situation, unless there was a mitigating factor (like someone needs to stay in contact with MIL for health/financial/legal reasons, and you have agreed to take on that role). I would feel wildly uncomfortable talking to my MIL if my husband was NC, for a variety of reasons. Setting aside that she is unpleasant, she would definitely try getting to him through me, even if it was just a sort of indirect taunting thing like, "Ha! You can't stop me from talking to your wife!" I strongly resent being a party to triangulation.

But every situation is unique, and if your husband genuinely doesn't care, then I don't think it's inherently wrong to remain in contact. This is contrary to most advice, but I think there are times when "not rocking the boat" can be the smartest option. If you're potentially leaving anyway, why kick the MIL hornet's nest and add that stress and drama to your plate? Let her think everything is fine and dandy and then ghost her ass. 

[square]

Thank you so much, everyone. I appreciate the opportunity to use you guys as a soundboard. It helps me think better to get it out of my head plus get alternative perspectives.

Moglow
That approval/disapproval is still just her opinion. Not your stuff, Square.

Moglow, you're right, and you're right, and also, you're right. Just a tough thing for me to live! I've made some progress, though.

Call Me Cordelia
I think you've answered your own question. You are fine with the Christmas gift text ritual for now, if it happens. You do not wish to discuss your H and not see or speak to her on the phone ever. Okay. Sounds like you have those boundaries in place already.

Yes, thank you for the validation. Indeed, most of those boundaries are in place already - except the phone one. That'll be new.

Poison Ivy
The thing that would be hardest for me if I were in your situation, square, would be deciding what, if anything, to tell my child.

I'm so sorry you're having difficulty in your family.

In our case, DD finds MIL stressful and would not miss any interactions. So there really aren't any considerations for me except what I'm comfortable with.

Cat of the Canals
It is perfectly reasonable to not want to speak to someone (anyone) on the phone. Period.

Thank you for this validation, it means a lot. It helps having a counterpoint to MIL's point of view.

Cat of the Canals
My mother taught me to never say no to a reasonable request. "Oh, would it really hurt you so bad to just _____?" It's an insidious kind of damage to always rate everyone else's wants above your own because they are "reasonable." Because my wants are also reasonable, and sometimes I want to NOT do whatever someone is asking of me. It's not childish to have limits. It's not childish to say, "I'm really not interested in speaking with this person." 

You've touched upon a core idea I've got to dig around. A phone call is a perfectly reasonable thing. I don't want to make these phone calls. I don't have to make the phone calls no matter how reasonable they may seem to be.

If I peel back a bit, I find that the phone calls are not, in fact, reasonable. MIL/DIL calls are reasonable. Calling 3-4 times a year is reasonable. Whatever invisible stuff happening in the phone calls that makes me feel physically ill is not reasonable.

And nobody, not MIL or anybody else, has to understand that or agree. It's a fact that talking to her on the phone makes me feel sick. it might be my fault, I could be making a big fuss over nothing, and it still doesn't matter.

I don't owe her calls, no matter how silly I may or may not be.

And her being mad about it says everything about her and nothing about me.

Cat of the Canals
I do think you could lean on your husband being NC if you wanted to put the phone call question to bed for good ("I feel uncomfortable talking on the phone given everything with H, but texting would be OK."), unless bringing that up is the kind of thing that would rile her up. 

I actually might consider something like this. Not sure, but I'll put it in my back pocket.

Cot of the Canals
But every situation is unique, and if your husband genuinely doesn't care, then I don't think it's inherently wrong to remain in contact. This is contrary to most advice, but I think there are times when "not rocking the boat" can be the smartest option. If you're potentially leaving anyway, why kick the MIL hornet's nest and add that stress and drama to your plate? Let her think everything is fine and dandy and then ghost her ass. 

You know, this is what I'm thinking. If I leave H, my contact with MIL will probably naturally fall away to nothing anyway. Why rock the boat?

But still resolving to draw the phone boundary.