So she has dementia, it seems ...

[Mathilda]

Last week I got a call from a woman who told me she is my mothers new case-manager.  It appears my mother now has dementia.

She told me she knows I am NC, but my parents are very sad about it. So I said, yes I understand but a lot has happened all these years and sadly they don't change.

I also told her my father is intellectually disabled (his IQ has never been tested, but we all know it must be below average).
She said 'Yes, I thought so'. But she thought my mother is intellectually disabled too! Hell no, she's smarter than I am 

I told this woman that I believe my mother has some sort of personality issue, and that suprised her. But when I told her several things about my mother and the way she behaves, she said she has some knowledge on PDs and she could see that yes, her behaviour fits the description.
I also told her brother is a diagnosed borderliner with narcissistic traits.

She said she understands perfectly well why I do not want to visit my parents.

I also send her 2 e-mails in which I explained that in order to give my mother the best help she can get (and deserves) I need to give her some background information.
So I told her the things that my mother likes, the problems she had in her own childhood (she told the case-manager that her father was 'difficult', I think the case-manager needs to know that her father was abusive and sexually molesting) and that she may present herself to strangers in a varied way, either self assured or childish and helpless.

Still can't get the thought out of my head that my mother is faking dementia to get me back in line and this was a flying monkey 

[MamaDryad]

I totally understand the flying-monkey suspicion; it's so hard to trust with parents like ours. That said, based on her responses, she really doesn't sound like one.

You can take comfort in the knowledge that you handled it well, whatever the caller's intentions were. You spoke your truth, and this person heard and validated it. And if the situation is what it appears to be, then you shared information that could really help your mother.

[Mathilda]

I totally understand the flying-monkey suspicion; it's so hard to trust with parents like ours. That said, based on her responses, she really doesn't sound like one.

You can take comfort in the knowledge that you handled it well, whatever the caller's intentions were. You spoke your truth, and this person heard and validated it. And if the situation is what it appears to be, then you shared information that could really help your mother.

MamaDryad, I live in the same apartment building as my parents (yes, I know  ) so every once in a while (not very often) I do run into them. I will hopefully be able to move to a newly built apartment building in about 9 months.
Last time I ran into my parents was a few weeks ago, I said hello and my mother responded with this awfully reproaching tone 'Well hellooo, Mathildaaaaaaa'. That didn't sound like she was sad  ... more like she was still furious for me going NC.

But you're right, the information could help my mother, so hopefully the case-manager thinks it's usefull.

The case-manager also mentioned the possibility that my mother goes to a caring facility .. so that does sound like it's serious.

With the coronavirus going around I don't like the idea of one of them moving to a caring facility, on the other hand I think they are very lonely, since there is hardly anyone who comes by and visits them anymore. If they could move together, chances are that they will even like it.
And my mother ofcourse would love being cared for.

[Adrianna]

It's hard with elderly pds because they get worse with age anyway, so you don't know what's a pd and what's dementia.

As most know on this forum, my grandmother is 98 and was just diagnosed last year. With her it's more about poor reasoning, inability to make decisions, verbal abuse which was new, extreme irritability, and worsening of her theatrics. 

The doctors are good at spotting this. I had no idea she had it but I knew she was becoming unbearable. How much is her and how much is the dementia I have no clue.

[MamaDryad]

Mathilda, I literally made the same face as your emoji when I read that! I hope you can move soon; that sounds SO stressful. My mother lives in the same city as I do, in the apartment where I grew up but about 100 blocks (5ish miles) away from where I live now. She barely goes out, so I haven't run into her by chance, though the one time I ventured a trip to her neighborhood with my son, I did see her from the bus. She can't possibly have seen me-- was across an avenue and headed away when I spotted her-- and yet she turned and stared at the bus. It was eerie.

PDs do generally get worse as they get older. They're like a closed system, and without anything new coming in, it's hard to stay sharp. It does vary, though. My mother is 70, and she's profoundly cognitively impaired (I'm sure five decades of heavy drinking have more to do with it than her PD-related isolation, but it's all connected), while her mother is a classic narc and is still razor-sharp in her mid-late 90s.

[Mathilda]

It's hard with elderly pds because they get worse with age anyway, so you don't know what's a pd and what's dementia.

As most know on this forum, my grandmother is 98 and was just diagnosed last year. With her it's more about poor reasoning, inability to make decisions, verbal abuse which was new, extreme irritability, and worsening of her theatrics. 

The doctors are good at spotting this. I had no idea she had it but I knew she was becoming unbearable. How much is her and how much is the dementia I have no clue.

Before I went NC I had also noted that she had become much more irritable. She also became violent, she threatened to hit my father on the head with a mug. She didn't because I jumped in front of him. Then she put on her coat and left the house and stayed away for a couple of hours. When she returned, acted like nothing had happened 

I told this story to the case manager, who thought this behavior was probably caused by the dementia. But she has always been irritable, only now it was ten times worse.

I still wonder if her diagnosis is right, or if it's just the PD that has worsened.

[Adrianna]

If her irritability is 10 times worse, it's probably from the dementia. I saw a drastic increase in her irritability and demands and although she's always been difficult, this was another level.

[Mathilda]

Mathilda, I literally made the same face as your emoji when I read that! I hope you can move soon; that sounds SO stressful. My mother lives in the same city as I do, in the apartment where I grew up but about 100 blocks (5ish miles) away from where I live now. She barely goes out, so I haven't run into her by chance, though the one time I ventured a trip to her neighborhood with my son, I did see her from the bus. She can't possibly have seen me-- was across an avenue and headed away when I spotted her-- and yet she turned and stared at the bus. It was eerie.

PDs do generally get worse as they get older. They're like a closed system, and without anything new coming in, it's hard to stay sharp. It does vary, though. My mother is 70, and she's profoundly cognitively impaired (I'm sure five decades of heavy drinking have more to do with it than her PD-related isolation, but it's all connected), while her mother is a classic narc and is still razor-sharp in her mid-late 90s.

Yes, it's a bit like living on a volcano. The case manager reacted in the same way  when I told her that actually I live in the same building (she said 'oh no, you don't, do you??'). There's no other option right now, I'll have to stay until spring/summer next year and then I will be able to move.

Fortunately they don't leave their apartment very much, especially my mother stays inside most of the time.
And I don't leave my apartment much as well, because I work from home because of the coronavirus. I do my shoppings very early in the morning and after that start working.


'They're like a closed system, and without anything new coming in' it's funny, this is almost exactly how my brother described my parents a few years ago 'they keep repeating themselves and nothing new ever comes in'.

[Mathilda]

If her irritability is 10 times worse, it's probably from the dementia. I saw a drastic increase in her irritability and demands and although she's always been difficult, this was another level.

She has alway been irritable and always yelling at my father. I also remember her running away twice when brother and I were kids (she just got up from the table when we were having dinner, told us that she'd leave and would never return; then came back after an hour or so), but this was much more intense.

[Mathilda]

I totally understand the flying-monkey suspicion; it's so hard to trust with parents like ours. That said, based on her responses, she really doesn't sound like one.

You can take comfort in the knowledge that you handled it well, whatever the caller's intentions were. You spoke your truth, and this person heard and validated it. And if the situation is what it appears to be, then you shared information that could really help your mother.

I don't think she was a 'real' flying monkey, considering the way she reacted when I told her why I was NC.
But I don't like the way she started this conversation, introducing herself as my mother's case manager and immediately telling me they are very sad that I am NC.

She scared the hell out of me and I started crying immediately. She just shouldn't have done that. As a professional you'd think she'd know better how to handle situations like these.

And frankly, I'm still quite mad about that 

[Adrianna]

I totally understand the flying-monkey suspicion; it's so hard to trust with parents like ours. That said, based on her responses, she really doesn't sound like one.

You can take comfort in the knowledge that you handled it well, whatever the caller's intentions were. You spoke your truth, and this person heard and validated it. And if the situation is what it appears to be, then you shared information that could really help your mother.

I don't think she was a 'real' flying monkey, considering the way she reacted when I told her why I was NC.
But I don't like the way she started this conversation, introducing herself as my mothers case manager and immediately telling me they are very sad that I am NC.

She scared the hell out of me and I started crying immediately. She just shouldn't have done that.

I've had many experiences where you will absolutely not get validation and it's tough but you know your truth.

Now I just say I can't handle the mental abuse so I'm doing what I need to do. Most do not understand and many disagree. Oh well. They aren't the ones with decades of this under their belt. I used to run myself in circles explaining it to people to get validation that no, I'm not an awful person for limiting contact, but that validation has to come from within.

In all honesty, if I hadn't experienced it myself, I might have been like them, judging, as I wouldn't have believed a parent or grandparent could be that way.

[Mathilda]

I totally understand the flying-monkey suspicion; it's so hard to trust with parents like ours. That said, based on her responses, she really doesn't sound like one.

You can take comfort in the knowledge that you handled it well, whatever the caller's intentions were. You spoke your truth, and this person heard and validated it. And if the situation is what it appears to be, then you shared information that could really help your mother.

I don't think she was a 'real' flying monkey, considering the way she reacted when I told her why I was NC.
But I don't like the way she started this conversation, introducing herself as my mothers case manager and immediately telling me they are very sad that I am NC.

She scared the hell out of me and I started crying immediately. She just shouldn't have done that.

I've had many experiences where you will absolutely not get validation and it's tough but you know your truth.

Now I just say I can't handle the mental abuse so I'm doing what I need to do. Most do not understand and many disagree. Oh well. They aren't the ones with decades of this under their belt. I used to run myself in circles explaining it to people to get validation that no, I'm not an awful person for limiting contact, but that validation has to come from within.

In all honesty, if I hadn't experienced it myself, I might have been like them, judging, as I wouldn't have believed a parent or grandparent could be that way.

It was clear that she had some knowledge, but did not understand completely. I.e. she suggested that maybe my parents are sad because they feel that they have failed as parents. No, I doubt that's how they see it.
Or when I told her how my mother reacted when I came home from school and showed her my A for a test ('Yes, you are always lucky') she thought my mother wished she could have had the same education as I had (her father would not let her finish school and she had to go to work). Erm no, this woman meant exactly what she said 'You have all the luck and I am a victim and you should feel sorry for me'.

But yes, I know most people find it hard to see and at least she did try and she didn't try to drag me back to my parents.

[Mathilda]

Since my parents and I live in the same apartment building there are several neighbours who know I am NC.  And I strongly suspect mother has given them her version of why I went NC. Remarkably, no neighbours seem to judge me. Everyone is still kind to me  . And except for my brother there have been no flying monkeys the last 2 years, not even one family member or relative.

They all know how they are. Only the people who don't know them, who just met them, have the impression that they are very kind and sweet old people. Not the ones who know them.

[MamaDryad]

Hey, I'm sorry, I realized what I wrote could read as invalidating. I definitely agree that her intentions were FM-ish to begin with, and it was super unprofessional of her to lay that on you. Good for you for speaking your truth, and it does seem like she heard you. And as you say, the more she deals with your mom, the more clearly she will see it.

Most of my actual FMs have been part of the same sick family system as me and my mother, so when I gave them my reasons, they doubled down with the guilt and called me a liar. I don't have a lot of first hand experience with FMs who are capable of seeing reason.

[Mathilda]

Hey, I'm sorry, I realized what I wrote could read as invalidating. I definitely agree that her intentions were FM-ish to begin with, and it was super unprofessional of her to lay that on you. Good for you for speaking your truth, and it does seem like she heard you. And as you say, the more she deals with your mom, the more clearly she will see it.

Most of my actual FMs have been part of the same sick family system as me and my mother, so when I gave them my reasons, they doubled down with the guilt and called me a liar. I don't have a lot of first hand experience with FMs who are capable of seeing reason.

No, I didn't  read that as invalidating.

It just took me some time to decide for myself that the nagging feeling I still have is because yes, it did seem to start as a FM. Knowing very little about my parents, she obviously thought she could mend the relationship 

I think it won't take long before the case manager will throw in the towel. She told me she would go look for daytime activities for my mum, asked what sort of activities she likes and if she liked to be among other people.

Quite honest, except making handicrafts I couldn't think of group activities she likes and there are only very specific people she gets along with.
That could become a problem.

If  the case manager thinks it's not going to work out and my mother needs more help than she can give, she will have to move to a nursing home.

I don't talk much about my parents to other people. When I try, most of the time people offer useless advice. Last year, when I told a co worker I am NC, she told me there are always two to blame. Yeah, right 

My dad was a bit of a black sheep in his own family and his brothers and sisters have never liked my mother. There's also not much contact with mother's side of the family. But you never know if one of them suddenly decides to become a FM ofcourse. So far no one has showed up.

[Mathilda]

Over the last weeks I had frequently seen EnD going to the mall, but each time without my mother. PDM stays inside most of the time, but they always go to the mall together, so I figured that maybe mom had moved to a nursing home, as the case manager had told me she considered moving to a nursing home a serious option for mom.
I was also a bit worried if EnD could cope on his own, so I checked with the case manager if everything was allright.

Got a very short e-mail back from the case manager. PDM and EnD are stilll living together in their apartment (and speak of the devil, yesterday I saw them together, so yes clearly they both still live in their apartment). Case manager thought PDM is probably just being careful and stays inside because she is afraid of catching covid. That sounds good. The case manager also mentioned my parents have rejected any help so far, but she is trying very carefully to get them to accept some help.

I also asked if my parents have a financial administrator, because I have some financial documents that I would like to hand over.

No, they are still doing their own administration.
Now I don't know a lot about dementia, but that sounds a bit off to me 

Now here's the thing. I checked the website of the organisation the case manager works for and this is interesting.

Apparently, this is how the procedure in my country works: if an elderly person or any of their familymembers worries about their memory issues or behavioral problems, they can ask for the help of a case manager. No diagnosis of dementia is needed. The case manager then visits the elderly person and also contacts their relatives. Ofcourse the case manager will encourage the client to consult their GP or visit a hospital's memory unit, but in order to receive help NO DIAGNOSIS  OF DEMENTIA is needed.

Now I am even more puzzled.

So today I sent another e-mail to the case manager and asked if my mother has an official diagnosis. I want to know. Still waiting for the answer ofcourse, but I wouldn't be surprised  if she has no diagnosis. 

Still glad I didn't break NC and thankfully I will be moving away in half a year.

[Mathilda]

I got an e-mail back from the case manager. She says she only gets involved if there is a diagnosis of dementia, either by the GP who has run some standardized memory tests or by a geriatrician. Sometimes people are still in the very early stadium of dementia, sometimes the dementia has already progressed when she gets involved. But she can't tell me which stadium my mother is in, for privacy reasons.

She said the fact I am thinking of my parents and ask how they are shows I still care and want to be involved.

WHAT?!

NO!

I sent her an e-mail back in which I explained that although I am NC, SHE contacted me and asked for my help; I gave that to her, because she gave me the impression that this was a serious matter of concern, that my mom was seriously ill and could not give any information about herself or the situation. She also mentioned mom possibly had to move to a nursing home. And yes, with dad having cognitive disabilities that IS a matter of concern.

But since they do not have any professional help, mom still capable of doing their paper work, dad still having activities outdoors .... that doesn't sound like a serious situation to me!
And she can contact me again if things get REALLY bad.
But I doubt she will ever call again.

I really think my mom was playing the 'poor me' game again to gain my attention.