How do you get Narc Husband to get off the couch and do some work?

[sarandro]

Advice please on how to get out of work husband motivated to do something...anything!

Or should I just get on with my stuff and ignore his apathy?

He is driving me crazy with his laziness!

[bloomie]

sarandro - I am wondering... what are the direct consequences to your husband for not contributing to the financial needs of your family?

[GettingOOTF]

My ex quit his job soon after we got married. He refused to work for most of our marriage. He had all kinds of reasons but they boiled down to the fact that he didn’t have to because I did.

Now I kick myself for all the years I waited for him to get his act together and get a job. I am decades behind my peers financially. My ex is now with another woman who takes care of him like I did.

I tried reasoning, begging. pleading, yelling. Nothing worked. It was incomprehensible to me that someone wouldn’t work so I made excuses for him until I realized he was happy with is life the way it was. He hasn’t changed and I’m trying to catch up. My life is really limited now by the fact that it was such a one sided marriage and he didn’t contribute financially.

[SparkStillLit]

My h has just started doing this too! For the longest time he was a normal partner and contributor. Now all of a sudden he will let us get way down financially, then he will do something to get it back up just enough to be ok for a bit then he'll stop. Let that dwindle down. Fiddle and fish around. Complain about how there's no work here and so on. It's VERY VERY STRESSFUL. I don't know the answer, either. I don't know what the consequences would be. I bet I'm behind my peers, too.

[Call Me Cordelia]

This is financial abuse. Whether it's refusing to bring money in when they are perfectly able or spending it to make sure it isn't there for you to be secure, it's keeping you off balance and limiting your choices. I saw this dynamic between my parents and so have several others:

https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=77630.msg675964#msg675964

Anyway, I don't have a lot of advice except this dynamic is serving your husband in some way. It works for him. The only way it will change is if it stops working for him. He's essentially making his earning potential unavailable to the marriage. Are you able to protect your own income? Suggest you reduce your household living expenses significantly? (E.g. downsize the house, get cheaper vehicle for him, stop spending YOUR money on things he likes, whatever works for you and put the difference away where he can't access it.) If your husband is at all image-conscious this would be a consequence with teeth.

IMHO this kind of behavior says "divorce ahead" to me. Marriage is about building a great life together not deliberately depriving each other. But when one partner refuses to contribute in a reasonable way, it's only prudent to protect yourself. I'm so sorry you all are dealing with this. It's disgusting behavior.

[Hazy111]

Ive only seen this from the Borderline female angle. The wife has had children leaves work to bring them up (sic). But when they go to school, theyve never gone back to work. Its selfish self obsessed narcissism. 

Ive also seen male narcissists who insist their wives give up work so that they can control them better. More children the better.

[sarandro]

Thanks everyone, it's a difficult situation.

Bloomie...he had a job he really liked and was made redundant (trucking), it seems that since then, he doesn't want to try anything else. He also doesn't want to drive anymore either....so...nothing interests him.
He won't re train or try to learn anything new.
He has depression, but only weak people like me get depression apparently! I don't go there with him.

I have been quite ill over the last 2 years and was self employed but had to give it up. Now I am going to start a new business and hopefully become a bit more independent...get my own money...and my life back.
I can't sit all day doing nothing.
We are having to claim benefits which I hate, but he seems to just want to struggle through on no money...let the state pay!

I had a little savings, but they are now all nearly spent on living expenses, bills and such.
It's like he wants to keep me down.
Today, he said
''Oh, when I get a job, you will be able do your little business...I'll bring the money in and that will mean you can do what you want!''

Wow...it was like he was saying that I could not do my business until he was the breadwinner so little wifey could do her hobby business.

If he could get a job...any job, it would take the pressure off financially.

I'm doing my business anyway, I don't need his approval!

[11JB68]

Cordelia, that's so interesting to think of this as financial abuse.
UOCPDh is self employed because he decided he shouldn't have to work for Idiots! He under earns. He has me on an 'allowance' etc. I've been worried about pursuing divorce as it seems if have to pay him support. I lawyer u meet with feels she could make a case against that - I'm wondering if the financial abuse angle might help.

[Starboard Song]

Ive only seen this from the Borderline female angle. The wife has had children leaves work to bring them up (sic). But when they go to school, theyve never gone back to work. Its selfish self obsessed narcissism. 

Ive also seen male narcissists who insist their wives give up work so that they can control them better. More children the better.

...and of course, most of the time a woman who doesn't go back to work is not selfish, or self-obsessed, or a narcissist. And many men agree with many women that being at home with young children is a wonderful investment, and are not narcissists for proposing it.

I totally understand your observation, but would lift out the diagnoses of borderline and nacissism in such a broad generalization.

[Hazy111]

Ive only seen this from the Borderline female angle. The wife has had children leaves work to bring them up (sic). But when they go to school, theyve never gone back to work. Its selfish self obsessed narcissism. 

Ive also seen male narcissists who insist their wives give up work so that they can control them better. More children the better.

...and of course, most of the time a woman who doesn't go back to work is not selfish, or self-obsessed, or a narcissist. And many men agree with many women that being at home with young children is a wonderful investment, and are not narcissists for proposing it.

I totally understand your observation, but would lift out the diagnoses of borderline and nacissism in such a broad generalization.

Starboard . I didnt say all women or men. It wasnt a broad generalisation. I think the world would be a better place if parents could stay home and raise their children, as long as they werent PD of course! I was talking in a PD context as per this thread and forum.

I know Borderlines that have done this (because their enabler husbands have complained obliquely to me about it " she would be brilliant at work, so much better than some people i work with.... " 25 years plus never worked. Both children post school age. ) I know also a narcissistic man who has manipulated their wives who had careers of their own (same man two different wives, loads of kids)  to stay at home and have more and more children because they dont want them to resume their careers, as it gives them free reign to get on with theirs, knowing where their wives are ( at home) under control and not threatening their own lifestyle.

[bloomie]

sarandro - it sounds like it has been a really tough time leading up to this. I applaud you for setting goals and taking steps to rebuild your career and life financially in a way that would empower you and give you more options and choices. That is one piece of this that you do have control over and can change and I wish you strength, wisdom, and success in your new business..

That still leaves you with a H sitting on the couch not willing to contribute.  Is there a neutral 3rd party - like a therapist, spiritual advisor, older trusted mentor couple that you and your H could meet with and work through your H's passivity and resistance to getting back to work?

Marriage is to be a place of growth as well as love and support and your H is stuck and it is unclear why. Yes, it hard to lose a job we love and daunting to consider retraining to do something else, but many people do this successfully and there are programs and help for adults who are reentering the workforce at community colleges, etc. This could be a time of great growth and rebuilding for your H, but for now he has no real consequence for his passivity that he cares about it seems.

Meanwhile, it is harming your financial status and your regard of him I would imagine and must be so stressful for you. It is important to live within the reality of the law of sowing and reaping.. when we don't work we don't have food, shelter, clothing... if there are things that are still somewhat luxuries that make sitting on the couch enjoyable then he is not experiencing the natural consequences of his choices. Things like beer, soda, special snack foods, cable tv, expensive cell phones, gaming - you get what I am saying I think. He is doing something with his time unless he is sleeping for hours at a time and if that is the case he may need a complete physical and psychological evaluation.

Sadly, it seems your H is in a great place of denial as he takes the one up position and boasts that he will "allow" you to take on your little side job once he is back to work. Is it possible for you both to meet with a financially savvy person - lay out the reality of your finances and strip away the pretense and expose how dire things really are while he sits there refusing to budge?

Is it possible to get some back up in real life and find a way to directly address this very serious, self limiting behavior? In some ways, it seems your H is hiding in plain sight even from himself the irresponsibility and spiral downward all of this is becoming.

Would it be helpful to get a support team around you to get you both moving forward?  You have talked with him at length I imagine and he is not responding and not getting off the couch. Bringing all of this into the light and getting help with it from others may help turn the tide.

Just a few thoughts on this.

[sarandro]

Oh Bloomie...thanks for your post.
Yes, he's had a hard time having been  made redundant and I am very much aware how this has affected his 'manhood?' so to speak.
He started acting very strange a few months ago, (even more aggressive than usual) so I told him I thought he had depression and needed to see someone right now...I phoned his Doc and went with him within the hour.
He wanted me to talk to the Doc for him as he had kinda lost it...he felt ashamed of his diagnosis...depression.

Well, a little back story...I have had depression for a number of years and he has always been like
''Snap out of it''...''What have you got to be sad for''...''Pull yourself together'' etc
So...
Having this diagnosis put him into the 'Weak' category, so he couldn't accept it...
He has become just like everyone else...a normal human being with feelings not above everyone else with depression as he thought all this time.
He says he is taking his meds...I don't know if he is
If so, they are not working/helping and I say to him that maybe he needs a different kind or dose.
He refuses to see the Doc and as I've said, just sleeps and watches TV.

In my case, I need my meds to keep me healthy, mine enable me to live life and that's what I was hoping for for him, so he would feel better and be able to find some joy.

I have realised that since I worked out my Mum was PD (Covert Narc) and went NC, that I was married to a PD (Grandiose Narc?)

A couple of weeks ago, it got so bad that I wrote him a letter!
I talked about the old 'walking on eggshells' and how I just want to help...I put in about some of the things he had done/said. Not to accuse him, just to let him know how they made ME feel.
Made things worse!
Said he was confused by this and didn't see that there was anything wrong.

He would not tolerate any kind of friendly/professional intervention...I have suggested it, gently.
With regards to finance, it has always been my remit, hence my insomnia/stress/anxiety.

My new business is the only thing keeping me sane!
The danger is though, if/when I start making it work, he might think he doesn't have to go to work at all!

When he worked away, I brought up my boys, worked part time until they left school and then, when he started his own bussing business based from home, I did all the business stuff for him as well as all the daily chores and my own job.
When he came home from a job, everything was done, decorating, putting up shelves etc etc, he would be at home for a week and then back out....like a holiday! No time for trivial arguments about household stuff/finances/school things/discipline
He is in his 'holiday mode' now, I think
Like treading water until something happens.

NOTHING is going to happen if he just sleeps is it??
I just can't get through to him and lately ...I am finding I don't want to so much.
It's very sad.

I know he's in there somewhere...I really miss him...I just want to help him, but I can't...I realise now that he will have to do that himself.
Unfortunately, it will take work on his part, but when someone doesn't see there is anything wrong...what can you do??

Sorry for the long post, but it's really helping me to talk about it.
Writing things down has a way of focusing  and making things a little less 'foggy'

ThankyouXX

[1footouttadefog]

I think I would give him an ultimatum.  That he has to engage in something productive within a month be it therapy or engaging with an employment service, working with a temporary service, taking in part time employment, retraining or something.  Any reasonable effort to move forward.

If not
I would insist on couples counceling or  that he see a psychiatrist.  And if he chose neither then I would begin getting concultatiins with a lawyer.

[Liftedfog]

There is just one thing worse of having a disordered spouse who doesn't contribute financially to the household. That is divorcing one.  I'm being requested to pay spousal.  Talk about pouring salt in a gaping wound. Not only did I carry him during the marriage but until death now because we were married 20 years.  And it doesn't matter how much money you make you just need to make more than them.  If they are unemployed, even at min wage you may owe HIM.    It's horrible.   And he will take half my pension.   The emotional damage you will recover from. Financially you will never. 

[GettingOOTF]

I managed to get away with not paying my spouse anything so I was very lucky there.

I made lots of excuses for him - he’s depressed, he got laid off and can’t catxh a break, I’m pushing too hard, I make enough money on my own I should let him get his stuff together etc. but now I look back and see that the only reason he didn’t work is because he didn’t want to. Plenty of people with the same circumstances hold down a job. Truckers are in serious demand. Trucking companies are desperate to hire as there aren’t enough truckers to fill the demand. I read a report on this industry recently on how the lack of truckers will impact prices on the goods they usually deliver as there aren’t enough truckers to keep up with delivery demand.

My ex got laid off from every single job he had. This was during a booming economy. He always blamed his boss or some random force, but now I see it was him. He’d get a job to appease me, work a coupe of months and then get laid off, which would buy him time sitting around depressed and unemployed, sometimes for years. After we divorced I found out that he wasn’t sitting around all depressed he had an active social life and was cheating on my with multiple women. I funded this past time of his while I worked a stressful job and he spent all the money. I could never understand where it all went, now I know.

[sarandro]

Well...trucking is all he knows and he says he doesn't want to drive anymore anyway...even though now he could command a really good wage.

He won't consider retraining either...so stuck in a blooming rut.

He said to me yesterday that I should be the one to get a job...(bear in mind that the reason I am starting my own, home based business is because of my health issues, brain tumour, neuro problems, depression and arthritis and I can't commit to working regular hours or drive too far)

I think he is sulking because I am getting on with all the hard work needed to set up an online shop...making things, going to meetings, doing costings etc.
I have no time to pander to his moods anymore.
He wants me to make him pies and cakes and is cross because he has had to feed himself (no food for me though!!!)

Last night, I was busy, but hungry and decided to make some fajitas (easy), while the chicken was cooking, I had to answer a business call...5 mins tops, he just sat there and  then came to me and said...
''There is a burning smell''

Going into the kitchen it was clear that the chicken had burnt a bit...hey ho, so I said,
''Why didn't you take it off the stove if it was burning?''
No answer...
Then he complained that the chicken was burnt and thought I was poisoning him deliberately.!!!!

Today, he is still in bed (it's now 12.45 lunchtime here) , says that I bore him when trying to talk about our marriage /finances etc and went to bed last night in a sulk.

I don't know what to do anymoreXX

[1footouttadefog]

Maybe for some running away and staying married is an option to consider.

I am not entirely kidding.

[sarandro]

Update...
Over the weekend, I managed to persuade him to go back to the Doc's and get some different meds.
We had a good talk and today he has woken up before midday, took the dogs for a walk and helped me clean the kitchen!
In return, I have promised to make some pies and cakes (as a reward!)

He agrees that he has felt like 'less of a man' having been diagnosed with depression and has taken it out on me.
Hopefully, he will stay on his meds (they will take a couple of weeks to start working properly) and start to feel better!
I really hope so, not for my sake, but for his.

Watch this space....

[Starboard Song]

That sounds like a great success. You managed, it seems, to approach him with a stance of compassion and need rather than anger and frustration. And he responded. These stories can be success stories: PD is not a binary, but comes in styles and flavors and intensities of every sort.

Congratulations on a great first step.

[sarandro]

Thanks, Starboard (if I may call you a friend?)

I couldn't have done it without people like you on this forum...you have all helped me look at everything in a different perspective and use a different approach than the one I always used!

I just hope he will now want to learn a bit about himself and the way his behaviours affect those around him.

Baby steps.
XXXX