Can you maintain relationships with family members who want/try to be ‘neutral'?

[Starboard Song]

It really can exhaust you.

Let me remind you of what you already know: "too toxic for me, too toxic for my kids" is about children, not grown offspring. And PDs who do a great deal of harm to us are not universally that harmful. So it is perfectly reasonable that you may allow your older teens to maintain a relationship with someone from whom you are NC. It would also be perfectly reasonable, depending on circumstances and the ages of your kids, that you may discourage or forbid that. Anyone who insists that it is plainly wrong to do either should practice more humility.

I am glad you are getting the space you need. I am glad you are processing these hard decisions about collateral relationships. Keep being open and kind to people while respecting your boundaries, and your kind heart will be recognized by most all healthy people. There will be some losses, and that breaks my heart for you.

But if you will be patient with healthy people just don't understand (and don't need to, as long as they treat you right), you'll minimize that loss and maximize the love in your life. Something a PD person can rarely do with much success.

Be good. Be strong.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I think I understand! I too "went NC" without realizing that was even a thing. Like you, I just knew I couldn't handle them at that time. Fully expecting we'd work it out when I was feeling better (physically). That very quickly proved impossible.

Piggy-backing on what Starboard said, I think that you are second-guessing shows that you CARE. That you have empathy and kindness. And that this is just hard. Of course, it doesn't serve you to continuously do so, but being willing to do that gut-check periodically will help you stay in tune with what your values really are, and give you long-term faith in your decisions. If you do find you need to make a change, that's ok. That doesn't mean you were wrong, it just means that people and relationships and circumstances change. And you are able to discern and adapt.

[OWIU (Only Way Is Up)]

Thanks so much, both of you – such reassuring words.

I tried to practise being open minded with a visit from a 'neutral' FOO last week (aunt). Used advice from this thread and attempted not to overthink (while feeling a little cautious). Went better than I'd thought it would! After a lifetime influenced by my uPDM's negativity and catastrophising, it feels liberating to try and be more accepting and not frightened by change.

I'm so glad Out of the FOG exists. Take good care everyone.

[theonetoblame]

Thanks so much, both of you – such reassuring words.

I tried to practise being open minded with a visit from a 'neutral' FOO last week (aunt). Used advice from this thread and attempted not to overthink (while feeling a little cautious). Went better than I'd thought it would! After a lifetime influenced by my uPDM's negativity and catastrophising, it feels liberating to try and be more accepting and not frightened by change.

I'm so glad Out of the FOG exists. Take good care everyone.

Congratulations on this progress! I'm curious, did you seek any sort of acknowledgment from your aunt about the behavior of your mother and why this led you to go NC? Every situation is different and it may not be necessary for you. If you did, I'm just wondering how that process went.

I was inspired by this thread to reach out to a cousin by email (not the same one referenced above). It actually went well, and he acknowledged both the abuse he experienced from my aunt (mother's sister) and that my experiences were traumatic and damaging... I'm not sure what to do with the information though... still thinking it through. It is a first for me, but this isn't my thread and I'm curious to learn about your experiences.

[OWIU (Only Way Is Up)]

This is ALL of our threads and ALL of our experiences, isn't it – with all the similarities and all the differences.

That sounds like quite a step, theonetoblame. You say it went well, which sounds positive. But how did (do) you feel?

I didn't 'address' anything with my aunt. She was actually in the area to visit my uPDM (her sister) and came to see me for the evening – which is why I was worried it would be awkward. It was as if there was an 'unconscious agreement' to not talk about my M and I tried to take the visit on the merit of what it was. My aunt is very close in age to me, so she was more like MY sister growing up (I'm an only). She and I took it in turns to be the SG/GC. So, as I'm NC, my aunt doesn't (appear to) experience toxicity from my M (her sis) these days. But I think both her and I miss the closeness we used to have. This sounds awful, but I wonder if my aunt and I might be able to reconnect in the future when my uPDM has died... though I assume her bitterness will keep her going for many, many years yet (sorry if that sounds terrible).

I've got cousins (on my paternal side – but 'tainted' by my uPDM) that I'd like to connect with .... or find out if there's no point/benefit in doing so. Comments on this thread has made me hopeful with a dash of cautiousness.

Have you got an ideal 'next step' in your head, theonetoblame?

[Starboard Song]

We've nailed this down:

If someone is clearly faking it, that is a fake peace and cannot be trusted.

If, given your circumstances,  neutrality is morally unconscionable then that too is a fake peace.

Many of us face neither situation and have achieved real and loving relationships with non-PDs who chose to maintain relationships with our PDs. This too is a totally valid and achievable path.

More love is good. Less love is bad. Fake love is no love at all.

[theonetoblame]

That sounds like quite a step, theonetoblame. You say it went well, which sounds positive. But how did (do) you feel?

But I think both her and I miss the closeness we used to have.

Thanks OWIU, my plan is to do nothing  at least for now. He has my number, and I have his... I think this is a long term sort of thing so I may give him a call in a few weeks or something, although I would feel better if he called me. At the same time, I'm rather detached and ambivalent about it. He did, after all, ignore previous attempts at communication re this topic. I don't have enough trust with him to extend myself.

Then there's my uBPD/bi-polar brother who drunk dialed my office a few days ago and became belligerent with my wife because she wouldn't engage in his grandiose ranting... well, so much material so little time  Like many things, I'm just over it and don't really engage emotionally anymore. This detachment is a bit contagious though and is probably seeping into my recent cousin experiences. I should probably add that he's my 1/2 sibling and we didn't grow up together, which makes his intrusive and disruptive behavior all the more bizarre.

I wonder, with your Aunt, if the thing that might provide the trust and stability you both need to be closer is to acknowledge the truth of your experiences. Perhaps, it might be, at least remotely possible that once you know you can trust her with the truth, and that she doesn't deny or judge, it may be easier for you both to let down your guard. You sort of describe an 'elephant in the room' situation where you both chose not to talk about it. This certainly shows me that you both value the relationship more than this specific issue. Just some thoughts... I know for myself it doesn't need to be an ongoing conversation but sometimes things just need to be said... ?? You be you though

[Oscen]

Hmm, interesting question.

I truly think the answer to this is, if you've come Out of the FOG and you've set boundaries with toxic people, then YOU are neutral.

Anyone trying to play the middle game is just half in, half out the fog.

Don't get me wrong, if a more distant family member has never seen the abusive behaviour from the PD individual and they respect any boundaries that you set, then sure, they're neutral.

Anyone else who's trying to make someone do something they don't want to for the appearance of "family" is at least half in the fog, and therefore not neutral.