Out of the FOG

The cycle is never ending, it's sometime slow and sometimes fast. But I think I have figured it out as much as I can, if I manage MC and GR successfully the cycle is slowed down, but not stopped as this is impossible. When I MC and GR uNPDw (STBX) is doing anything she can to drag me back in, she pretends all is normal, love bomb me, invites me to join her for meals and watching TV together. I always feel bad turning her invites down, but I have to. The cycle goes that as soon as I accept an invite, either because I just want to watch TV, or want to eat at the same time as her, it does not take long before she turns on me. It really is like she is a polar opposite to me, if I am nice to her, she is mean to me, if I am ignoring her, she is nice to me. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for both of us to be on the nice side at the same time. I find it astonishing that she can spend a week begging me to engage with her, and if I do she immediately turns on me. Last month or so since we got this couples therapist, and I have been successfully executed MC and GR, she has used these sessions to get all her emotions and rage out. Over Christmas, I had to engage for the sake of the kids, it of course ended up in several rage attacks on me (and the kids), then closer to the new year she wanted me around again and I did MC and GR until the next therapy session. At this one she let it all out. Only a few minutes in she started to blame me, gas light me, victimize herself, insinuating her life wasn't worth living and so on. To me, it is obvious she will use any therapy session to get her supply and to try to turn the therapist on to her side and get me to fall in line. That won't happen again. I am not getting into the cycle again, it ends her. We are having our separate sessions with the therapist next week, I will first see what the T has to say, then I have to state my intentions. Unless the T is blind, she must have seen what's going on. STBX has not been very good at disguising her rage and blaming me.

With all above, I am speaking to my solicitor again next week. I need to make up a plan with her. I need to leave the guilt behind and declare a truth war (to use SOT's words). I am no longer planning to move out, I am to scared of how the kids will be treated. I need her removed, one way or another. Until this can happen, I need to be home protecting the kids, avoiding all baiting from her (and GC on STBX behalf). It's very difficult to declare war when STBX is nice to me, but it only take me being nice back for her to switch. Maybe I should just do that, and have the recordings on, it won't take long.

To assist with this, I also started to look after myself and started a diet, stopped drinking and regularly going to the gym. The best chances I have is if I am at my best. No more hiding away from her with comfort eating or drinking, that just prolongs it all.

I have said it so many times before, but wish me luck. This is taking time, but I am getting more and more clarity and getting further and further Out of the FOG. I am sorry for keep posting new threads but at the moment you all are my best support. Thank you.

Quote from: escapingman on January 06, 2022, 08:08:09 AM
To assist with this, I also started to look after myself and started a diet, stopped drinking and regularly going to the gym. The best chances I have is if I am at my best. No more hiding away from her with comfort eating or drinking, that just prolongs it all.

This is so important. Live for the future, and it will make the present clearer.

I think you are doing a lot of good for yourself right now. And it is ok if it takes time. You have a process you are trying to respect, and multiple goals you are trying to balance. That's all actually hard.

Be good. Be strong.

Quote from: Starboard Song on January 06, 2022, 08:32:31 AM

Quote from: escapingman on January 06, 2022, 08:08:09 AM
To assist with this, I also started to look after myself and started a diet, stopped drinking and regularly going to the gym. The best chances I have is if I am at my best. No more hiding away from her with comfort eating or drinking, that just prolongs it all.

This is so important. Live for the future, and it will make the present clearer.

I think you are doing a lot of good for yourself right now. And it is ok if it takes time. You have a process you are trying to respect, and multiple goals you are trying to balance. That's all actually hard.

Be good. Be strong.

:yeahthat:

Quote from: Starboard Song on January 06, 2022, 08:32:31 AM
This is so important. Live for the future, and it will make the present clearer.

I think you are doing a lot of good for yourself right now. And it is ok if it takes time. You have a process you are trying to respect, and multiple goals you are trying to balance. That's all actually hard.

Be good. Be strong.

Thanks Starboard. The more I learn and notice from my uNPDw's behaviour the more I realise it has nothing to do with me and the less I take notice of her rages and rants. If it was just us and not the kids I could probably completely switch off and let it take whatever time it takes. As the kids are affected, I don't have that luxury, but I need to get it right for everyone so therefor it is taking more time than I wanted it to take. I have been dragged back in at times, but less and less lately. I have dropped the idea I just need out, I need the kids Out of the FOG. That is more important than anything else, and as long as I can handle it I will stay to avoid the kids to me on their own with her as much as possible. I really have realised it is a mental illness, it is sad to look at her as she rapidly switch from a victimised person crying for love and attention to a raging animal that has no care for anyone but themselves. Its hearth breaking.

 :yeahthat:

escapingman - glad to hear you are making plans and putting the children first.  I am sending you hope and look foward to hear about your progress.

Just a side note, when the papers were served and when I sat in court and the judge declared us divorced, it was a real blow.  Like a gut punch.  But don't let those emotional moments get you.  Look back on your posts and watch your video'd evidence and remember the why.  You got this.

:bighug:

Quote from: user on January 06, 2022, 06:27:39 PM
EM,
I read this today in the Learned Helplessness (https://outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do-1/2015/12/3/learned-helplessness) article in the Toolbox, and I thought it might be helpful to you. It really spoke to me anew, despite reading it before...

That is a very good article, thanks for sharing. That is definitely me, I always think I have to convince her we need to split and that I am not allowed if she doesn't agree. I don't, I just need to convince myself I can leave and it is up to her how she handles it - not me.

 :yeahthat:

Reading a bit more in the toolbox section now I am further out the FOG really makes some stuff I didn't pay attention to before hit home. This learned help ness is really one of them, it is so true and can explain why I have stayed for so long. I think I am still waiting for someone to come and save me and do all this for me, or that I will find the strength next week/month etc. It's not gonna happen, I need to find the strength from within. I suppose what makes us the wonderful caring people we are, is just that we are so caring to others and don't want to upset anyone else. We had some bad news, one of STBX's close relatives just died, and I decided I will have to wait until after the funeral before proceeding with filing. It will set me back some time, but I want to believe I am a decent human being and not want to trigger unnecessary. From a selfish point, I don't want to give her the opportunity to go to her entire narc-filled family and smear me and tell them all what an awful human being I am. That side of her family are filthy rich and could easy fund her with money and resources if they decided they wanted to back her, that's a risk I always been aware of.

I spoke to my solicitor yesterday and I know the scores now, and we both agreed to wait a bit and also for me to try to talk to our couples therapist to see if she is of any use to try to manage STBX and soften the blow. Anyway, solicitor is ready to file as soon as I say go, it will literally take a few minutes for her as all she needs to do is to fill in a form online. I just need to be prepared for the fall out when the papers are served.

Sometimes it really sucks to be a nice guy.

I understand the essence of timing and showing compassion.

I've read some of your posts - haven't you shown enough compassion already?  There will always be a reason in the nar's life why it isn't a good time.  The stuff they can come up with, it's amazing, right?  The health complaints my STBX reports on a daily basis is almost funny.  At one point last year, he convinced me that he was going to have open heart surgery and he might die. I believed him for a few minutes - a few minutes too long. 

Today, he's complaining about his stomach, fever, soar throat....yet he's smoking non stop.  Oh well.  (he had a covid test yesterday, all good there).

It's sad to say, but if someone in my STBX's life died, it wouldn't be about their death or the impact on their family, it would be about HIM.  How it effects him...how he can look like superman by helping somehow...how it impacts his health....I can visualize it all right now.  And, living with someone like this can steal away your own natural emotions.

I'm not waiting on my STBX for anything now.  I've spent 20 years putting him first. 

Again, based on your past posts, your wife is going to have a significant reaction to the divorce - regardless of how it's presented or when.  As I write this, I am correctly myself.  You just can't predict their behavior.  So, with this lack of prediction, does it really matter how or when you proceed? 

These are my opinions only - we all struggle so differently and the same, right?

Be safe and well

PFNW: Thanks for your input, but this is probably more of self preservation than kindness even though I want to see at is me being kind. She hates this person, it was someone STBX only met at funerals and weddings. She hasn't shed one tear and I doubt she will, other than on the funeral of course. But, I really don't want to give her the ammunition to victimise herself in front of all of her relatives that potentially could make my life a nightmare. I have made my decision to divorce, I know it's going to be hell, but I need to not make it harder than it need to be. Also, every time I get close to actually file I get scared shitless about what is to come. This is particularly true when she has behaved reasonable OK, I know it's still not great but not as bad as it could be. The real problem is that every time she has really overstepped it and I decide I will file now, it has taken to much time before I have been able to actually get to the point of actually filing that she has managed to be god enough for me to hesitate. Maybe I need a therapist on my side to actually pull the trigger, or maybe I be OK now after the holiday period with my solicitor on stand by to file as soon as I say so.

I just feel so weak for not being able to do just go ahead and do this. I really fit in perfect in the description for someone suffering from learned helplessness.

I think it can be a sensible plan to have all your ducks in a row and pull the trigger when you are in that state, a state you've been in plenty of times before and will be in again.

The key is having your ducks in a row. You say your solicitor can file in minutes of your sayso. Great. What else? Where do you physically go at that point? If you plan to stay in the house, how exactly will that work? I would discourage you from living with her, it seems like an untenable situation and likely to be explosive.

If you will leave, even just for the day, decide now where you will go and what you need to bring now, so you don't need to make these decisions when you are in no fit state. Make a checklist on your phone, perhaps. Assume anything you leave will be destroyed.

If you must stay, and I do have my concerns, can you have a lock and all necessary tools to install it on your door quickly? And you need earplugs. Noise cancelling headphones are good too but not ideal for sleep or when you are trying to focus on work. Earplugs don't block it all out but they'll muffle the drama, and you can put headphones over them. If you stay and lock the door you must be totally prepared for a horrific campaign of banging, shouting, and further infantile ridiculousness, and you must not rise to the bait, even at 3am. Again, it seems untenable.

Anyway, making such plans does not commit you to executing them. You do not have to be ready or sure to get plans set up. Then when you can't take another single second, it'll all be right there waiting for you.

 :yeahthat:

This process is incredibly difficult and very scary.  It may not seem like you are moving forward, but you really are.  With each day, you are getting more in tune with who you are and where you want to be.

EM:

Do you have a good relationship with your stbx's family?  Either way, expect your stbx to play victim, tell lies and do what she can to start a war wasting all family resources and destroying your integrity and standing in the family.

I'm wondering if you have a decent relationship with someone reasonable in the stbx's family you can rely on to help you get your message through and stay on task.

You aren't trying to smear the PD and war with her..... you're trying to get help for her and STOP the destructive force of her PD in your shared home. 

Unfortunately, relaying the truth can make you look like you're attacking and smearing your stbx. 

Think about possibly mitigating the story your stbx will tell.....maybe her family can focus on her mental health, rather than bankrolling the stbx's desire to punish and destroy you? 

I'm not telling you to do anything.  Only suggesting possibilities.  Maybe you'll be talking to a very reasonable member of her family at the funeral or another gathering....and that person asks how things are going?  And wants the truth?  Knows enough about the stbx to GET the truth and accept it.....do what they can to help rather than make war.

I can tell you, things might end up in war no matter what you do.  I reached out to my In Laws for help and they called me a liar then did everything they could to destroy me.....crazy stories but my ASPD stbx came from disordered people......lots of money, but controlled by the PDs so the more normal, dependent members fell in line and carried the family narrative, even though they knew better. 

Maybe there's just acceptance around what comes next, EM.  Maybe you do what you can, then stop worrying......work on your coping strategies and practice using them.

Expect your stbx to go nuts.  Accept that and drop all hope this will be a peaceful process.  Identifying the stbx as disordered, proving she's threatening suicide and having her taken in for evaluation in hospital....could shorten up the process AND get her help...help everyone get help.  Are you considering that option?

Hopefully whatever happens works to  your advantage in SHOWING everyone the truth so family resources go toward  healing and ongoing rather than extended court battles draining everything and everyone.

I hope you've met with the baddest and biggest Divorce attorneys in your area to prevent your stbx hiring them.  Just a short phone consult will do.

Hang in there.  Keep documenting.  Remember to breathe.

When the papers were served to my xOCPDh, I did it with a process server and on a Friday.  I stayed with a friend and hid the car in her garage.  I took my son with me.  I picked him up from school and explained the situation and offered that if he wanted to stay with Dad I would drop him off or he could think about it over the weekend.  I did not hid anything from but stayed level, calm and labeled the mental illness for what it was.

This way I was not present and could not be attacked or yelled at or whatever.  I was safe.  I did not see him for a month.  All communication was through the lawyer.  After I was notified the papers were delivered, I did text him that DD was with me and safe.  My lawyer said it was not kidnapping since we were both biological parents with full custody of the children and there were no court orders to the contrary.

Talk it the process through with your lawyer and understand all the aspects of it.  Yes, it's an electronic filing but like said earlier, think it through.

As for filing now versus later.  It will never get better or easier.  There will always be a bad time to file.  Always a reason to wait.  And your ex will twist it to your advantage.  Granted, perhaps not right before a funeral but waiting too long isn't ideal either.

I hope you are still putting your ducks in a row - papers, inventory, finding a place even temporary, etc.  Good luck

He didn't try to reach me at first.  When he did I said all communication should go through the lawyers.  And it was via text.  He complained and said that we could do it on our own and negotiate the divorce ourselves.  I had researched that and thought about it - I honestly thought maybe I could and he wouldn't cheat me.  Thankfully I wised up and insisted we communicate through our lawyers.  And if there was something to say about our son or the house, then via email. (I am glad I did because I discovered a lot of hidden money)

It was touch and go for the past two years and there were several times we were face to face.  It was really hard.  But there wasn't a legal requirement here that would hold to lawyers only.  But it did help initially when I insisted and he didn't really know I couldn't enforce it.  Does that make sense?  Hope it helps.

As for text barrage, I think there is some way now with some phones that you can silence people but not block them?  I think it came out with the newest apple update. Something called focus?   I gotta get my kids to help me haha

Quote from: hhaw on January 08, 2022, 02:28:19 PM
EM:

Do you have a good relationship with your stbx's family?  Either way, expect your stbx to play victim, tell lies and do what she can to start a war wasting all family resources and destroying your integrity and standing in the family.

I'm wondering if you have a decent relationship with someone reasonable in the stbx's family you can rely on to help you get your message through and stay on task.

No, I have already been smeared and blamed for her fall out with her mum. Her sister doesn't speak to me other than when forced to, her mum just the polite chat when seeing each other. The extended family she will see, I have barely been introduced to so only seen them a couple of times. I am not even invited to the funeral, it's apparently an adults only so I need to stay at home with the kids. As I don't think she will see the extended family again for a long time I really don't want to give her the opportunity to get any support she normally wouldn't get. I am just going to try to cope until the funeral has been and then see what to do, but plan and be ready for then. But, being in the house with STBX is mentally wearing me down. She is constantly demanding my attention, it is exhausting to keep holding the boundaries. Ideally I need to get away for a few days and recharge and plan properly, it's hard when constantly under pressure.

Thanks everyone for your support.

Surprise surprise, the funeral is now all about STBX. I can't go into details but I feel sick in my stomach about how she behaves. She must think she has me back where she think I should be as she has treated me like a dog all day. I had a trip booked for the day the funeral now is on, she didn't even tell me this relative had died and then just told me I am not allowed to leave the house on this day. I then found out it a matter of about 2 hours I need to actually be at home looking after our kids. Thought it is a bit silly to cancel an entire trip for 2 hours so said I will look into asking some friends if any of them could have the girls until she was back. That was OK for her yesterday, but today it's not OK anymore and if I find someone then I am expected to join her to the funeral (I was never invited in the first place and not even told when the relative died). She is now playing the victim card that she will not go to the funeral as she needs to stay at home and then telling me how horrible I am. I just have had enough of her drama and story changes, she is now uses this death to punish me and at the same time turn it around telling me I am the one disrespecting her relative. I have no issue cancelling any trips for a funeral, but to be told as a direct order what I can and can't do and not even be told about the death or invited to the funeral stinks.

Sorry for a bit of a rant but I think she just put me back in the right mindset to just get this thing rolling again.

I really needed this latest crazy making to get myself back in the frame. With some time to digest this is just her typical behaviour with everything. She finds a problem, I find a solution, she finds a problem with the solution, I find another solution but she rejects the solution as she doesn't want to have a solution to the problem. I think I am back to reality understanding I need out as it will be impossible to be in the same house after filing. So time to get all ducks in a row, plan for filing in 2 weeks and then get the hell out. Easy.  :aaauuugh:

I'm so glad you seem to be making peace with acceptance, EM.

The PD conundrum is what it is. Always. 

Your stbx will never stop creating double binds.  You'll always be damned if you do and damned if you don't and there's no good reason for it.

It will never make sense.

You can only control your choices and thoughts.

You will never get out of the double bind with stbx BUT you can limit it....for yourself and your children.

Acceptance opens up space for creativity and creation, ime. 

Emotional and physical distance provides spaciousness required to model healthy boundaries, coping strategies and consequences.

Shifting focus away from your stbx, her chaos manufacture and making sense of it allows you to think about what you want to experience.  It's also a out building something new in your childrens' hearts and nervous systems, ime.
Accepting it IS what it is, without trying to change it.....means you CAN focus on building new habits, brain pathways and family systems with your girls, ime.

You'll help them widen their windows of tolerance as you learn and widen your own, ime and there's still time to teach.

So ya.... acceptance.

The Buddhists have a saying...
The sky is blue.  The grass is green. 

Your stbx is disordered and that's as clear as the color of the sky and grass.

It's ok to let it be what it is while focusing on what you can do.

I find there's so much energy for positive growth when I accept the PD truth, shift focus to the joy in my present moments and let it all be.

When your stbx does what PDs DO.....you have the choice to accept it and let it be, instead of allowing her chaos to take and keep your focus, ime.

It gets easier with practice and distance from the PD.  Remember this and keep reminding yourself you have choices.

Stay curious.  Be super kind to yourself.  Try to drop judgment, do what you can and grab all the joy you can.

It might be necessary to spend one on one time with your girls.....for different reasons, but it's going to be ok, EM.

Breathe and know it's going to be ok.

Thank you hhaw, amazing post as always!

This double bind, no win, lose lose situation is actually only a win win for me in a twist. STBX demands me to cancel my trip, I find reasons I can still go ahead and she finds more made up reasons I can't go. I am pushing this to the limit, but what she doesn't know is that I was thinking of cancelling the trip anyway. So now I have told her I will cancell without any further information given to her. She now demands to know what the trip was for, told her it doesn't matter as I am not going. So now she is fuming that I am not telling her what the trip I am no longer going on was for. If you can't win playing their game, make up your own rules as PD's always do anyway.

Yesterday she was shouting and swearing at me, pulled up all kind of wrong doings I have done. I ignored her and enjoyed a movie in my own room. If I had raised to the bait it would only have ended up in a circular. This morning she has already forgotten all the names she called me and acts like all is normal. Another tick in the box for "it really does not matter what I do as she will decide whatever she does anyway". If it wasn't for the kids I think I could manage, it would not be a fun life but manageable. But as I have the kids that's not an option. The biggest issue is that GC is making everything about STBX at the moment, she is giving away her own desires to please her uNPDmum and that is not going to end well. All my MC and GR towards STBX is complained about to GC by STBX and then used against me by GC. This is not something I can manage or change without being out of the house with her.

So for so many years I tried to save my uNPDw from her childhood and her parents, it was a battle I could never win. Now, I have to fight the battle to save my own kids from her. This is a battle I intend to win. It will be hard, but has to be fought. SG told me that she can't send me messages when I am away because STBX is monitoring her phone when I am out, how sick is that? Any message she send me she deletes straight after sending it she said. SG really lost it with STBX yesterday and screamed at her, let it all out, shouted at her about how she hear voices in her head from all back chatting STBX is doing about me and all nasty comments to everything. It's impossible to deny it anymore, STBX is toxic and need to be moved on. I really do think SG would come with me and that STBX would be perfectly OK with that. The issue is GC, how do I save her.

EM:

The more energy you invest in your exit plan, logistics for getting kids help and PROVING your stbx IS detrimental to your shared children, the better your chances for helping/ saving BOTH children, ime.

I notice the stbx surprises and knocks you off center often, which is normal, ime.  It also robs your focus from more productive activities, ime.

Getting kicked D's into therapy will likely be easier before filing divorce.  Ad rewards, the PD will likely have more ability to shut down all therapy if she isn't controlling it, ime.

IS there a shelter with crisis support in your area?  If so, consider getting that started with the girls and yourself BEFORE you file.  You can say it's to help the girls deal with the adult conflict.  You're an equal parent.  Ask your attorney what your rights are.  Courts like to keep the status quo in place, ime.

A Therapist or social worker specializing in crisis management seems like the best thing you can provide for yourself and the girls and I would really focus on that NOW.

I would try to focus on documenting the stbx's toxic acts and words. 

I would resist being blindsided and upset by them, bc it negatively impacts your ability to plan and be responsive.

If you can.....resist letting the PD shock you.  Accept she's toxic and doing trauma.....put all energy into documenting and improving your case/situation and likely victory.

I'd be in contact with a domestic violence shelter.....maybe consider going there when I file IF I failed to get the evidence to have the STBX taken in for a mental health evaluation for the suicide threats.

Looking back, I wouldn't waste a moment worrying about things I couldn't control.... it's wasteful and harmful.... it's detrimental to your mental health and harms your ability to problem solve.

Your stbx is broken.  She can't do any better or she would if.

She can't.

Accept that and stop allowing yourself to be yanked off balance by the stbx's outrageous behavior.  It's what she IS. 

Prove it to your attorney, the domestic violence advocates and mental health professionals at the hospital intake department IF YOU CAN.

Wasting another second feels ng outraged is playing into the stbx's hands, ime

Breathe.  Center yourself.  Organize your case.  Get therapy in place, whatever you can get, the sooner the better, but get it.

If your stbx is as toxic as you and she say......why haven't you DONE something concrete about it yet?

What concrete options are available to people dealing with domestic violence?

THAT'S more productive than anything you could be doing in your time, imo and it's only my opinion from far across the pond.

I hope you position yourself in the best possible way before filing, EM.  THAT is how you save your children.

Would it work for you and SG to use Snapchat or something instead? The messages can even be set to automatically disappear after being read.

Thanks for your support.

I have got away for one night to get a breather. Feels great with some time away. But. I feel so guilty. Buy I don't know why I have this feeling of guilt. It is just so strong right now and I cannot point out why. I truly don't feel guilty for going away. I don't feel guilty for anything I done. I just feel so guilty. Is this normal?

Edit: Can the guilt come from that I enjoy myself on my own and then this feeling just took over?

Is your guilt the feeling your wife programmed?

I had some alone time last night, cooked while listening to some music and marvelled how easily I can feel happy if I can just be myself and enjoy stuff.

Guilt.  As a recovering Catholic I am well aware of what guilt can do, drive and result.

It could come from anything.  Your guilt over marrying your stbx and the situation with the children; over a night away; over delaying filing; over filing at all; over chooseing chicken or fish.  Sometimes emotions are just that emotions.

The trip is listen to your emotions and ask yourself these questions:  What do I believe right now?  Is it true? Who would I be if I let go of that belief? and then Pivot or switch to a more productive belief if needed.

You are going to feel guilty.  Don't let it derail your plan.

Hi Escapingman! I read through your thread and had a few thoughts:

It seems like you really really want to leave but are having trouble getting over the hump of just doing it. When your wife does someone especially disordered, try thanking her (in your head, not out loud) for the additional motivation to make it happen. I have my moments with my H when he is acting normal and I feel guilty or wistful, and then he does something awful again and I think "oh yeah, that's why I'm leaving. Thanks for the reminder".

Guilt is a hard one. I feel guilty all the time. Reverse the rolls in your head and imagine treating your wife the way she treats you. Could you do it? Could you treat her like that without feeling guilty and like a horrible person? I'm guessing not. She should feel guilty, not you. Don't carry the guilt that she should feel.

I wish you peace and strength going forward.

EM:

Unfortunately, I think you won't have the opportunity to examine your enduring sense of guilt until you're in therapy.

Likely, you've always felt guilty for having time and self care turned toward yourself.  Always felt undeserving and maybe you can trace that back easily.  Maybe not.

I tend to believe that's common in relationships with one very toxic, blaming, disordered and selfish person  involved with a mate who feels responsible for the PD's happiness.

Why one feels responsible is a question for another day.

What's helpful now is noticing all your emotions, acknowledging them and bringing your focus back to the mission, ime.

If you allow your guilt to derail you.... it's still ok, as long as you find your way back to the path you committed to when you felt level and made a good exit plan to work towards.

The less focus you give to the guilt....the less power it and your stbx have over you.

When it comes up, try to get curious and stop judging it good OR bad.  Just let it be and see what it has to say.  Welcome it, bc it belongs, even if it no longer serves you  in your adulthood ... At least you're aware.   Awareness is where we find choice, discernment and replacement of old habits and coping strategies.  Nothing to be scared of.  This is good and you might consider starting a journal ( your stbx can't access.)

I'm sure you keep a calendar with daily notes about the stbx's behaviors, the children's schedules/ interactions and school/ activities for court.

Something for yourself and therapy might help you cope with the really tough emotions......and breathing into them......and anything else you find helps calm yourself.....physical activity, for instance.  You work out now.  Maybe go, do that when the guilt takes a hold and you can't shake it.  Giving up drinking was wise.  Eating well will also build you up.  You'll need your strength.

Later on a T will help you process and file the guilt in historic files, out of your limbic system.  You can and will be free of it, if that's what you choose to focus on.  You can DO that, EM.

You'll be modeling and teaching your children as you learn.  The kids will have Ts to help them deal with their guilt and trauma.

Right NOW....your focus and work will determine if you move through this difficult period with economy of motion, resources and trauma.....or not, ime.  Choosing economy of motion every time is better, yup yup yup.

Remember, economy of motion will mitigate the harm to you, your children AND the stbx,even if stbx doesn't understand it and behaves like a possessed person in pain.  You can keep things on track, despite her distress and her crushing the children and leveraging their safety..... but you must be responsive and prove she's doing it so you can limit and stop the harm.

That's a lot if balls in the air.  A lot to face and deal with, esp when your brain pathways want peace and to escape conflict so badly....you can barely stand the discomfort of sticking to the plan instead of placating the stbx to get a moment's peace.  It's a very short lived payoff with long term negative consequences when giving in to the stbx, ime.  You extend all suffering if you give the stbx anything.....so stick to your plan once you make it, EM.  Think of it as the kind cut being the stinkiest cut.  You're going to have to suspend kindness toward your PD in favor of being the adult in charge.  It's not easy being a consistent, calm, focused parent who does what's best, even when it feels super hard. 

Right now your nose is on the pebble of guilt.  If you can breathe into it ...tend to those feelings.....like you would a small child, you can breathe space around it mindfully.....so you can get your nose off the guilt pebble TO SEE THE ENTIRE FIELD with all the other pebbles and ricks and trees and sky and grass.

You will create spaciousness for yourself.  You will create emotional distance while expanding your window if resilience.

Until then and as you practice, you need a plan and the guts to stick to it without faltering.

Your children will likely thank you for it some day......so.....choices.

You're doing great, EM. 

One more thing, EM.

It's likely research into codependence will resonate with you and your guilty feelings.

When we're codependent we NEED our mate and kids to be ok for us to be ok.

This creates reactivity and shifts us into fight or flight mode, which shuts down frontal lobe access to logic, reason and creative problem solving brain functions.

Once you give yourself permission to be ok.....even when the stbx and kids aren't ok......you gain the ability to respond and be responsive to them.....to SEE choices and discern between good, better and best.

If you remain stuck in reactive survival but ain you act without thinking.....your brain just does what it's always done which is whatever you've always done to shut the stbx up and restore imagined peace.

You understand that's never going to happen.  You're Out of the FOG now.  Accept and get on with restoring yourself so you can teach your children how to do that for themselves, EM.

Responsiveness means you have more choice and ability to respond.

It will feel odd and foreign and that's ok.  It'll pass and turn into habit and comfort and eventually joy, em.

I promise.

Hi EM,

I personally believe the term 'guilt' is reserved for when I have done something wrong. For me, 'wrong'  is defined as:
A: illegal
B: immoral/unethical
C: hurtful to another living thing. 

If I have done none of those three, then I deeply analyze what im feeling and reclassify my feelings as another term.  I agree with some other comments already made, that this mixed feeling I have, when I am faced with a reprieve from being mentally on-guard 24/7 around my uPDw, is a programming that is innate to my fight-or-flight.   

I am able to get away on occasion, and have been keeping notes on my feelings and my activities.  I find that it takes almost two full days for my mind and body to settle down from the initial feelings that I have when I step away.  My mind is programmed to have the toolbox on-guard 24/7, and to be planning one-step ahead at all times when around my uPDw.   When I step away, my mind and body enter into a freedom hyperactivity and I find my heart and mind racing in a mode of confusing thoughts. Yet, there is no reason to be in fight-or-flight when away, but it seems to noticeably rise to the surface when away. Whereas when I'm near my uPDw, fight-or-flight is so normal, its mostly unnoticeable. 

An analogy to my experience is my vehicle with automatic transmission.  I simply slip it daily into D (drive) and go about my driving, not paying attention to the vehicle's self gear-selection or the rpm of the motor.  But when I step away from my uPDw, its like I dropped my vehicle into S (sport) and now my normal mental habits and my physical sensations are interrupted by my hyperawareness that im in a higher gear, the rpm's are higher and vehicle is more responsive to the throttle.

After the 2 days of settling into being away, my mind and body seems to calm down and I get into a very relaxed (almost lazy) routine vs the normally hyperactive mindset of my vigilance at home.

Therefore, I want to suggest that while you are still deciding your marital situation for yourself, you may want to consider being away for longer periods, which may allow your mind and body to settle down from the switch, each time you get away.  Also i want to suggest consideration of your definition of 'guilt' to see if its really the right term for what you are experiencing.   

Enjoy your time away,

SoT

Quote from: SonofThunder on January 13, 2022, 07:10:34 AM
Hi EM,

I personally believe the term 'guilt' is reserved for when I have done something wrong. For me, 'wrong'  is defined as:
A: illegal
B: immoral/unethical
C: hurtful to another living thing. 

If I have done none of those three, then I deeply analyze what im feeling and reclassify my feelings as another term. 

This is a powerful tool that should not be overlooked. We can stop sometimes, when we are wracked by a feeling, and ask "regardless of my feelings of guilt, am I guilty?" That let's us back up from the emotions and complaints of others, which induce feelings in ourselves, and try to objectify the question. We may be able to affirm "I am not guilty" on that basis. If we can, that goes a long way toward resolving the feelings of guilt.

I'd modify your definition a tiny bit, SoT, just to note that with a BPD person, for instance, politely declining a casual and routine dinner invitation can leave them feeling betrayed and abandoned: very hurtful. And yet we aren't guilty of having done anything wrong. I don't know if item C needs to say "knowingly hurtful," that we did it on purpose, or maybe "reasonably hurtful," that a reasonable person would have been hurt. But either way I really like your approach, and everyone can apply it in their own ways. So good!

Quote from: Starboard Song on January 13, 2022, 11:02:10 AM

Quote from: SonofThunder on January 13, 2022, 07:10:34 AM
Hi EM,

I personally believe the term 'guilt' is reserved for when I have done something wrong. For me, 'wrong'  is defined as:
A: illegal
B: immoral/unethical
C: hurtful to another living thing. 

If I have done none of those three, then I deeply analyze what im feeling and reclassify my feelings as another term. 

This is a powerful tool that should not be overlooked. We can stop sometimes, when we are wracked by a feeling, and ask "regardless of my feelings of guilt, am I guilty?" That let's us back up from the emotions and complaints of others, which induce feelings in ourselves, and try to objectify the question. We may be able to affirm "I am not guilty" on that basis. If we can, that goes a long way toward resolving the feelings of guilt.

I'd modify your definition a tiny bit, SoT, just to note that with a BPD person, for instance, politely declining a casual and routine dinner invitation can leave them feeling betrayed and abandoned: very hurtful. And yet we aren't guilty of having done anything wrong. I don't know if item C needs to say "knowingly hurtful," that we did it on purpose, or maybe "reasonably hurtful," that a reasonable person would have been hurt. But either way I really like your approach, and everyone can apply it in their own ways. So good!

Starboard, thanks for the feedback.

Imo my 'hurtful' definition for myself is related not to emotional feelings or opinions of another living thing, but rather physically or financially hurtful. Possibly (objectively) 'situationally' should be as well.  I agree with you that emotionally hurtful is very subjective, and a PD playground in my experiences. 

Therefore imo, my A, B and C is for my own knowledge in defining a feeling of guilt for myself, not based on the subjective opinion of another living thing.  As an example,  I can step lightly (not purposefully) on my cat's tail and it may not have truly caused the cat real pain, but the cat imo, shrieks because it was startled and was scared of potential pain.  If I personally believe my step was heavy enough to actually cause pain, I may feel guilty, but if not, i do not feel guilty.  I use this example because its not human and its based on my own opinion, not a subjective opinion of the cat. 

Yes i agree with your example that politely declining is just fine, and if the person overreacts, thats on them.  But if I say I am coming and then rudely just not show or last minute decline, that is objectively B=unethical and C=hurtful, as I may have caused them to spend excess money by expecting me, or could have invited someone else in my place (situational).

Purposefully, or knowingly are good additions, but imo premeditation falls under part B, because intentionally trying to be hurtful is unethical.  As I mentioned, I could even add 'situationally' to the C list (influencing situations, events, relationships, time etc.) but again purposeful situational hurt/harm is B: unethical because its purposeful. 

Maybe a better statement for C should be: objectively physical, financial or situationaly harmful?  Accidents can fall under this heading and are not intentional but can cause real physical, financial, and situational harm and therefore my feelings of guilt over an accident  vs some other term.  100% agree with you about the need to "back up" and look at a situation in order to process my own emotions in a healthy and proper way. 

The first two (illegal or immoral/unethical) imo, require laws and codes of ethics determined by sources outside myself.  Thanks for the kindness and helping me sharpen my own defining playbook. 

SoT

Thanks all for your feedback. I don't the guilt in it self stems from anything particular towards STBX, it's more like a cloud hanging over me. I am not sure it's guilt or if it is something else, but I think it has to do with me still being stuck in this situation. I am back home after a short trip, it didn't take long to get that "help" from her to confirm she is disordered and nothing will change. Was on my way home and got a message from SG that she was being called names and shouted at. Apparently she was late out of school and STBX got stressed why she was late and then ended up shouting at SG for her being stressed about being parked outside school and the traffic and the rest. This morning she shouted and swore at SG again, this time she got some mud on the carpet. I could see the fear in SG's eyes and that is something I can't un see. I read someone else writing in a different part of this forum of how she was scared of her mum when growing up, I need to save my girls from this terror. I can really see how STBX is getting worse and much more unstable the more control she is losing (me not playing her game anymore). My real worry is if I move out and the girls have to spend longer time with her on her own what would happen, especially when she will feel the abandonment being real. I have read a lot about the fear of abandonment in BPD and that fits in 100% of how she behaves. She is also showing very narcissist traits about it all being about her. I truly don't know what she will be capable of doing when finally realising I am filing. I am having a session with the therapist soon, I hope she can help with guidance and not just being interested in us getting back together.

I started to listen to a book about codepenancy, I have always tried to see me more as an empath and less codependent, don't ask me why but I think it has stopped me from seeing the full picture. The guilt I said I felt the other day, I know now it wasn't guilt but shame. I think alot goes back to my childhood even though I was not growing up with abuse from my parents, but I understand I was emotionally neglected and not really seen. My dad is a people pleaser, he always want to please everybody, except for me. It's to deep to go into here and now but I think I always tried to gain acceptance but never really got it, and instead tried to get if from friends with a couple of really toxic ones back when I was a child. I couldn't see it then, but I can now. I was just giving out open goals to make fun of me in my desperation to be accepted. I started drinking when I was 13, not regularly but occasionally, that made me cool and I finally found a way to be the cool guy. My parents knew, but never told me off. When it comes to girls, I only got any courage to make a move on the ones I liked when having a drink, when sober I always been to scared of getting a no. So instead I have most often settled with anyone that showed me any interest independent what I felt for them. Anyone would do if they have me kind of attitude. This left me as an easy target when I met my uNPDw, she was everything I wanted and needed and she wanted me (or so I thought). Now I of course know it was all mirroring and love bombing.

Whatever happens with my STBX does not matter, all my focus must be on me and to get rid of all this shame. I realise I have had this shame all my life, without knowing it. I need to realise I am allowed to have a life, and to enjoy what I enjoy. It must not have to be validated by anyone else.

I also spoke to the therapist, apparently (not surprisingly) STBX has told her a completely different story. I think I might get her to help me suggesting a trial separation, it might work to get me out more peacefully than if I just leave. But they key for me is to be able to shake off the shame and guilt and move on.

EM,

So glad you are able to understand your past, and how it has shaped your situation.  I have also done much searching and discovery.  I was an ideal target for my uPDw.  But not any longer, therefore the permanent discard. 

I take it as a compliment to be discarded, as it tells me i have stopped being the easy target.  I wish you the best in your decisions going forward and for more self-discovery. 

SoT

Really interesting insights into yourself. I feel quite sure they will lead to further growth and peace - well worthwhile.

Just a note of caution, I'm not sure if you were hoping stbx would respond well to the therapist suggesting a trial seperation. It might be a good idea to do this, but I worry you hope she'll accept the idea to some degree. Don't let your guard down.

Square, I am no fool and very well aware of that a separation would be an enormous failure for her and not accepted. But it might make it easier for me with someone else actually promoting it. I am not sure. But all I know is I need to save the kids. I am out if the fog now so she can't get to me, except for through the children. Currently I sm trying to explain and coach them when stbx go off the rails, it's hard, but at least I am there fir them. I am worried how she would damage them if I wasn't there for longer periods. I spoke about this with the therapist but she had no answer yet, she doesn't know enough and not sure she actually knows about PD as much as required. Maybe my best hope is that the supply runs so low for stbx that she gives up and discard me. But I doubt that will happen as I am still providing her with a home, food and money. She doesn't want to go back to work, way to comfortably for her now. But I might be able to withdraw the free flow of money, or demand her to get a job, that could be the tipping point. I don't know. But I am so glad I am Out of the FOG, or at least on my way out of the last fog.

Of course you're no fool, EM.

I just know what it's like to hope.

I have been a fool for so long, but not anymore...... thanks for your Kind words square.

We see you, EM.

Feel free to borrow our lenses when necessary.  Feel  free to view your children and sbtx through them when you can't get you nose off the pebble.

And breathe, EM.  Breathe deep and slow.... fill your lungs like a vase, from bottom to top and think about the oxygen entering and exiting..... really focus on breathing, maybe start a routine, bc the benefits begin popping up in your life when you least expect it. Cross your arms over your chest and pat your shoulders gently, like you're patting an infants back..... left right left right...... slow and comforting.  You have more control over your Nervous System than you think and your stbx doesn't have a right to own and use it against you much longer.

Think of it as building a secret weapon.... this time you invest in calming yourself and nervous system.  It will pay off during tough skirmishes ahead.  You won't know how useful it is till you're in the thick of it, but you'll know it when it happens.

Your children will see you breathing deeply and calming yourself when you don't realize you're doing it...... it becomes second nature as you practice, IME. 

Understanding the dark makes it easier to find and shine light on it.  I think you're doing very well.  Focus on what you CAN do.  Bounce over the things you can't fix now....... this too shall pass.

Ok, not surprisingly she tripped up on her own desire to be nasty. SG have some really exciting things going on this week, things that excites me more than stbx. So how could she maximise this? She decided to tell the kids I have covid and to stay away from me. I even did a test but she claims it's not reliable. SG is now scared shitless from going near me and screams to me to stay away. This must surely count as abuse and really bad abuse. I do want to thank stbx however as made my mind extremely clear of how sick she is.

EM:

You continue to be surprised by your stbx's toxic choices and behaviors.

I hope you can wrap your mind around the fact she's going to continue to escalate and your ability to document impeccably is a priority.

How are you documenting this current interpersonal terrorist tactic?  Terrifying a special needs sg child, for any reason is abusive, imo. 


Doing it to punish, distance and ruin the joy for you and sg is an act of terrorism only a Judge can begin to mitigate, ime.

My heart is breaking for sg.

Again.....how can you document this to your best ability?

Hhaw, no I am not at all surprised as the has behaved like this for as long as I can remember. But what is surprising is how anyone can be so twisted that they despite living under a threat of divorce, have been told one more of those and you are out, and she still does it  :stars: It would be fine if she didn't beg me to keep her at the same time as that would make the process much more straight forward. I still actually have my police report open and got contact from the police asking if I want to proceed with it or not, honestly I might as well as this will be all out war. I have nothing to lose now as she has shown her true colours that she will turn the kids against me, even if I stay. I went to bed at 6pm yesterday as I could not bare the abuse anymore, stayed in to 10am this morning, had to cancel work as I am just worn out. I wanted to go an talk to SG and with her good luck for her things for today, but just couldn't face being shouted at for this made up Covid story, could hear GC shouting from outside my bedroom to stay in the with my Covid. I am hurt, really hurt. Maybe this hurt is what I need to finally escape. What also makes me so sad, whilst turned on me like she did yesterday she also turned on all charm for the girls and was the perfect mum to them (with her condition to them that they needed to be nasty to me).

I am documenting all what's going on, everything is on voice recordings. I haven't written down as much lately in my journal, but it's all there in my head and on the recordings.

And right now she is stomping around in the house feeling sorry for herself, so tired of living with a mentally ill person.

If stbx tossed the tv button at you hard.....report it.  Everything.  Report it and press it as hard and far as you possibly can from the start.

The stbx will switch up and change tactics like a rolling gator, but you stick to the plan, press maximum pressure and end the divorce more quickly.

Get protections for your children and stbx by NEVER giving in to stbx.  Press your strongest case to it's max while always remembering to speak to and about your stbx with COMPASSION.

You need help, stbx needs help, the children need help and you're asking the courts and law enforcement for that help.  Do not veer off that path, bc you'll be sabotaging your case if sending mixed messages about divorce and priorities...the kids, the kids, the kids.

Press the charges while including everything aggressive or physical the stbx has done.  Everything. 

I hope you've prepared the evidence you'll use, wrapped your mind around alleging ONLY those things you can prove AND left out the very confusing PD things that make no sense.  You need your case to make sense and be easily proved, EM.

Breathe......once you begin, you're heading to better things. 

EM, that's awful what's she did with the fake covid allegation. That is definitely abusive to SG. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and continue to document everything. Like hhaw said, look at your situation through the lens of an outsider when you need clarity. That's excellent advice that I need to take myself!

I am broken, I lost.

Third day running she has got the kids against me on this Covid lie. Went in to the kitchen, SG ran out lied to STBX that I had coughed over her food (I was in the other side of the kitchen making a coffee). Then GC hurled abuse at me, how do you stop a child if they keep being backed by the other parent? In the end after 10 minutes of abuse from all 3 of them I just lost it. I feel so bad. STBX used it of course, to reinforce to them I am the unstable one and need to be locked up. I probably should just leave. What is the point of anything when all she needs to do is tell them a lie and then the lie becomes their truth? She has always done this, made up a line and then made it my job to prove her wrong. Like now with this Covid, I took the test and it was negative, they don't believe the test and say I need another on and another one. Sure I can take more, but what is the point when it wont be enough anyway? I can still go, just leave it all. But the kids, their life's are about to be ruined. I can see it and I can't do anything about it. No point in going to the police either as she will turn it around on me and me being the bad one.

Maybe I should just pack a bag, go and never go back.

What a terrible time you are having. This is all abuse.

My golden rule is to always stay calm no matter what happens. I know it's not easy when you are being provoked into anger. You are getting all your buttons pushed.

That's exactly what your wife wants. She wants you to feed her narcissistic supply.

It's called the narcissistic cycle of abuse where the abuser turns everything around to become the victim by provoking you into anger and shouting back. Then they have the proof they need. It's a very twisted game they can play.

Use Grey Rock and Medium Chill techniques to remain calm. Be aware of not getting on anyone else's emotional rollercoaster with them.

People can twist the truth and twist history, tell lies, make false allegations and start smear campaigns to try and provoke you. Actors need audiences. Try not to take the bait and remain calm.

I hope that you can get support by seeing a therapist on your own who specialises in trauma. They would be able to help you more.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

Thank you Guitarman, I do MC and GR and I am successful most of the time. But after ten minutes of having lies and swearing from her Golden Child I couldn't take it anymore. I know, it makes me weak. But how much can to take from a child when you keep telling them to stop, you try everything in the book to make them stop and every time you get a bit closer the narc monster from upstairs feeds another little lie to get her going again. I can manage STBX, but I can't manage the kids when they are turned against me. It is killing me.

Did some rereading on parental alienation for refreshing me. With the level she has taken it to I don't think I will be able to cope in a calm way being here, to be absolutely honest I rather have no contact with my own children than having them standing and swearing to my face screaming they hate me. I am sick and tired of being accused for any made up thing and then having it thrown in my face by the kids, things they don't even know what it mean. I am tired of having no privacy as a twisted truth is told to the kids by her. How am I supposed to defend my toilet habits when they are just made up? Her twisted mind told the kids this morning I had been up all night having diarrhoea, I went for a p*ss at 5am. The projections, the lies, the manipulation. I am sick of it. SG went to a new friends yesterday, I wasn't really allowed to talk to her about how it went as I "have covid", but the first question STBX asked, the first f*cking question, "Was the house posh". What question is that for a child trying to make a new friend?

I will now contact my solicitor and start the divorce.

I.HAVE.HAD.ENOUGH!

I understand. That's a lot to take.

As I recorded the entire episode this morning I just listened to it all. Although I did lose and raised my voice, after that kind of abuse on second listening I don't even blame myself. STBX told me repeatedly I was coughing my head off, but on the 20 minute long recording I did not cough one single time. But even though it is a recording showing what happened, I am not sure it can be used as I raised my voice and anyone could take that as me being the problem. But the entire time, when mainly GC was making fun of me and swearing at me, STBX was there in the background feeding her to continue.

Sorry for the ranting, I am just beside myself at the moment. I need to calm down before I contact my solicitor, I can't be in a state talking to her.

What happened was legitimately crazy making. Pretty sure I'd lose it as well.

EM:

I think it will be necessary to have your negative Covid tests and a fresh one taken at a Drug Store for evidence.

What your wife is doing is terrorizing you and the children using the very real threat of Covid and perhaps illness and death.  It's obviously meant to distress them and you. 

Ask your attorney what evidence you need to prove what she's doing.  Get it.

Obviously, if your wife pretends to actually believe you have Covid she'll appear quite mad OR just stressed from the ongoing Pandemic?  Make sure you've recorded yourself showing your stbx your N Covid results and do stay calm.

I'm shocked you've stayed as level as you have.  It's not your fault you're losing your mind.  I don't know anyone who can remain level under this much stress and harm to one's children. 

I do think it's time to file, EM.  It's time to state and prove your case with evidence and that's the mission.

You'll be working toward protecting your children and limiting harm, but right now....... state and prove your case with evidence.  Ask the domestic violence people for advice and what your rights are.  Ask your attorney to help you protect your children through the courts.

Hhaw, there are a few issues with taking another test. The first one, she did exact this accusation drama with SG a few weeks ago forcing her to take a test every day for a week getting extremely distressed. Even though every test was negative, she kept saying SG had Covid and the tests were incorrect. The second, with the possibility of the test actually being positive as you could catch it any time, the fallout from a positive test would be massive. There is one rule in this house, no one is allowed to be ill, that is a crime and you will be punished, unless of course you are STBX as she is allowed to be ill whenever she wants to and everybody needs to feel sorry for her.

STBX has been away so I picked the girls up from school, they were amazing. No arguments, went to the shops for them to pick treat meals, which is normally banned by STBX. Had a great time at home with laughing and talking, some edgy moments with sibling squabbles but with no PD to get involved screaming they died out almost immediately. Makes it even clearer where the problem in the family is, I bet that within minutes she is back home there will be a fallout between at least 2 people.

Thanks for all your support.

I need to get all emotions to one side and concentrate now. The drama she has created this week has been relentless, and I have fallen in the trap. The quick moving around in the triangle where she is the perpetrator one second and then the victim the next is making me crazy. I am going to, as much as it is possible, to stay away from her all weekend, try to recharge, get focus and then go for it next week, when the emotions are a bit more stable. I can't talk to the solicitor and go on about her behaviour, I need a focused plan. I need to step out of my body and push on. The couple therapist, just put that to one side, she was never going to be there for me, not as I need her to, at least not as fast as I need it. I think I will start a new thread for the actual divorce, leave the drama out of it and create separate threads in other sections of this forum, cause I will need it, but I don't want to muddle it up. I don't know, I have had so much good advice in here, but I am still struggling. I am worried about the parental alienation she will do, but it was very positive yesterday with the kids on my own as they were completely different without her. I have to take the good with the bad and stay optimistic.

Sorry again for all my ranting.

The sooner you get put, the easier it will be. It will still be hard but not as hard as this. Same for the girls.

Wishing you clarity and courage em.

Started to feel all the symptoms of Covid, I wonder how much is just created by all anxiety surrounding all accusations about having it the last week. However, I took another test which was negative. I am sure I will be even more accused of having it now after taking another test. Anyway, she came into me pretending all was fine earlier today, talking about how silly it is to not just get on with things. Told her that's not possible as she hurt me and I am not accepting how she treated me, she denied it, of course, and suggested we should start doing coffee dates so we get back together. I must really question is she really is suffering of abuse amnesia, or is she so cold and self absorbed she can just put it to one side and expect everything to be fine. Told her to forget it, but she pretended she didn't hear it.

Oh, EM,....

I undertand the human NEED to make sense of things....... of your stbx's process and probable mental illness.

I do.

The thing is, your stbx's behaviors and thought process is non sensical. 

It will never make any sense so you won't be able to make any sense of it no matter how much struggle, thinking, suffering and  agonizing over it.  Every moment you spend thinking about it is wasted and keeps you weighted down, occupied, unable to ACT, problem solve, plan and execute strategies to bring about the best possible outcome for everyone involved.

What will help your childre is the same thing you need..... a good therapist, safe emotional and physical spaces and to have their lives NOT turned upside down any more than necessary.

THat's going to require you continuing to keep the business on track, their mother safely housed and fed and offered reasonable chances to settle a divorce while you press every issue to it's fullest so her ability to manufacture chaos is limited and the divorce ends more quickly for her, you and the girls. 

Once you're OUT of the same household as the StBX..... once you're IN therapy with a good therapist....... once you have important details of the divorce and separation and visitation schedule and perhaps custody figured out..... you can spend as much time as you want trying to figure out your stbx's mental processes.

Until then....... get your head in the game and keep getting it back in as you get jerked off course, bc that's how it goes, IME.

You manage to focus..... the PD DOES something you don't expect, you react, feel anxious and perhaps hopeless for a bit, recover then get your head back in the game out of self preservation and necessity...... you do it to protect your children and move the into safer space.

That's your next year, IME.  You have choices every minute of every day and those choices move you closer or farther away from getting yourself and kids into safer space. 

The girls need their mother to be OK.  They need you to be OK. They need to be shielded from their mother's crushing them and sacrificing them to the Gods of Hate and Vengeance, bc the stbx can't do any better.

YOU can react to her or you can counter her in the best possible ways to come out of this with everyone in tact.  If the PD threatens suicide, I suggest you have her taken in for evaluation.... for her own good.... she honestly needs help.  It would also SHOW the court and everyone interested in the facts WHAT your children deal with, you deal with, your stbx deals with. 

Press every chance you get to remove wiggle room for your stbx...... and stop letting her jerk you off track,make you feel guilty, etc BECAUSE your choices are all going to be less than optimal for a while and you won't get to feel like the good guy for a while.  Accept it and KNOW you're the only adult capable of steering your family into healthier waters and your stbx likely won't be dragged..... which means she'll do everything she can to KEEP you and esp the kids IN THAT DEEP WATER where all of you are now and it's dangerous water, IME. 

So focus. 

Minimizing trauma, time, wasted resources and your stbx's ability to BLOCK therapy for your shared children. IF the stbx was in her right mind she'd protect the girls and shield them from trauma. Instead

I suggest you go back and read all the threads as needed, bc there's a lot of good information there. 

Put on an imaginary helmet when you're near your stbx and don't let her crazy INTO your head.  Instead.... shift into observer mode and get curious about your reactions TO her crazy..... and breathe, EM.  Breathe yourself into calmer space, make a good plan and STICK to it...... then get back to calmer space as you can....... breathe, cold water showers, pushing on door jambs very very hard and patting your shoulders like you would a baby.......whatever works for you.  Go out into nature and touch trees, look at leaves...... but control yourself and get back to center, over and over again.

You're heading to the exit......... trust yourself and never ever ever trust the stbx or a word she says.... NEVER trust any promise she makes. Take her threats seriouse and don't let her get away with threatening suicide without consequences.....she's going to be bringing consequences on herself and protecting her is a mistake.

You've protected and enabled her for years..... stopping won't be easy, but you should know....... it's time to let her deal with every consuequence of her actions now, bc it helps all of you..... every one and that's enough to stick to that good plan, IME.

Remember, the kind cut is the stinkiest cut.  Any kindness you extend the stbx, outside keeping the family business on track, only harms her and extends the trauma.

Use our filters  to SEE what's important in the moment.  Try not to fret about the future and do what you can in the moment..... that's where sanity and better outcomes live, IME.

You sound better in this last post than you have, IMO.

Keep your eye on the ball.

Thanks again hhaw.

They are very predictable, even when they are unpredictable. Earlier this week when I was accused for having Covid, I was suffering from one of my ongoing health issues that comes and goes and I am very aware of, she should be to. But as I was a bit in a weakened state she used that to her max to push on. Then yesterday afternoon I got a cold and got very worn down, just wanted to rest, but this is what is an open goal for her. Me being a bit under the weather, she strikes, abuse turned up, kids turned against me and the rest. I have noticed with myself that when I am weak, my MC and GR aint working very well, I just needed and wanted to be left in peace and she kept going at me, together with GC. In the end I lost it again, had to retreat to my room and hide the rest of the evening and night to avoid furher abuse. But could hear how she was back chatting me to the kids and how they validated her. Now this morning I feel back to normal, but as soon as they saw me to rollercoaster was on. I find it so sad that GC can treat me so horrible when STBX is in the house, but as soon as STBX is gone she is the most adorable girl.

Monday is the day I set for filing. Hope I can get my solicitor to do it. Then house/flat hunting it is.

Your poor children, EM.  They're unable to protect themselves and you.  What protection is available comes in the form of placating the stbx..... and that's at everyone's expense.  I know it guts you.  I understand.  Remember...... feeling as though your nose is on any negative pebble limits your ability to  be responsive.  It traps you in reactivity and survival mode where logic and problem solving skills are shut down.

Restoring access to higher thinking is about getting your nose off the dark pebbles.... creating spaciousness around them so you can see the entire field again.  You have to breathe your way there or something... you can't think your way out of that.

I guess I'm saying....... sometimes it's impossible to calm ourselves down when around the stbx.... and so we resist reacting.....we sit with the misery and discomfort we're in so we avoid DOING something we regret.  We do what we can to restore our ability to think THEN we plan, act or do what's next on the list. 

Any outbursts with the PD will create more confusion and chaos in a very confusing situation, but you already know this and I'm glad you're moving yourself OUT of that precarious position. 

Your children are prisoners of war right now.  Please try not to take their cruelty personal..... do try to observe what they're doing, take good notes so you can show the court a timeline, actions and responses...... good notes are better than 2 litigants pointing fingers with ZERO evidence, IME.  Shift into observer mode as you can....... you want to be in a position to speak about the sitution with healing in mind, IME.

Resist pointing fingers and simply state facts without emotion, as you can.  Judgment limits the effectiveness of your notes, IME.

When your PD states you've raised your voice and the children back her up....... you'll be in a position to admit you did and explain why..... why you're filing is bc you're at the end of your rope, can no longer cope with X, Y and Z behaviors and are seeking divorce in order to get every family member help........ including the PD,bc you love her and she's the mother of your shared children.

Your posture in this will be important, particularly if this escalates to calling the police or mental health crisis services. 

Always always be able to lay your hands on your evidence and find what you need quickly.  Never allege anything you can't prove and keep taking notes with dates, times and details...... it's important, IME.

Things will get better, EM.  You have to stay strong and get your focus back over and over again, bc it will come and go. 

Learning to STOP the STBX from taking and keeping your focus is important.  You can't do that if you aren't aware it's happening, so be gentle with yourself, be curious, practice decompressing and drop all judgment,bc it helps you stay responsive, IME.  Notice how you're feeling.... how your feeling IN your body......keep breathing and trust you're heading to the exit.

Stay strong and when you can't, it's OK.  You'll recover and get back on track, over and over again.... and it's OK.

Interesting observation that by me just failing my MC and GR just a bit this week, STBX was back at her old tricks. It's like everything just went out of her head and everything she clearly has been bottling up came out. I have been observing her behaviour and yesterday I stepped out completely just watched her. I have known for a long time, but this time I really saw how disordered she is. Nothing me or the kids does matters, everything and I mean everything depends on how she feels inside, and that shifts several times an hour. I have no chance to try to time any of my plans or actions with where she is in her mood, it shifts so fast. I have come to the conclusion that I don't hate her, I love her in some way but the love is mostly artificial as the person I love doesn't exist. But what I know is that whatever I feel for her, for my own sanity and mental health, I can't live with her. I also need to create a safe place for the kids. But to the real problem, I still don't know how to play this. I really don't think she is emotionally capable of looking after the kids, even at part time, especially if she needs to look after herself and work. I cannot see her managing it, without taking it out on the girls. But, she is a master of manipulations so she would convince anyone she is fine and that I am the problem. I have my evidence, my recordings etc. But initially I am sure the kids would side with her, that's what they have been programmed to do. I wouldn't even put it past GC to lie to the police if she was interviewed.

So the real question is, do I move out on my own and fight the battle from a distance. Save myself first and then try to save the kids. Or do I stay and fight from home, trying to protect the girls, but risk drowning in this drama. I am pretty sure I already know the answer and that is leave now, but I am so scared leaving the kids behind. And before anyone say it, they won't come with me, at least not GC and at least not until I have a proper home which will take some time to get. 

The further out the FOG I am the sicker I can see she is. How could I fall for this for so long?

Put on your own oxygen mask first, by moving out and proceeding with the divorce. Your children appear to be physically safe when with your spouse, and although her treatment of them isn't ideal, the situation also isn't ideal when you're all together and the tension is high. Let the children know that they can contact or come to you whenever they want and that you are always available.

EM:

When healthy boundaries are lacking, it's not difficult for good times to slowly shift into fewer good times shifting into bad times shifting into worse.

It starts with small boundary transgressions.  If one doesn't know how to set healthy boundaries and hold them...small boundary transgressions turn into larger ones leading to trauma bonding and the cycle of placating and enabling becomes the relationship. 

The stbx was good enough, long enough she could get away with anything, bc you weren't likely raised with healthy boundaries.  I know I wasn't.  Things begin to slide sideways and we don't recognize it as a boundary transgression so things slide further and further into toxic relationship, ime.

Accepting the woman you married wasn't the woman you thought she was is important.  She didn't exist and that's unfortunate, but don't beat yourself up. She was lovely and lovely to be with in the beginning, but it was false.....it was what you wanted it to be, I think.

You're learning about boundaries now and you'll model them for your children..... you'll teach what you learn.

Worrying isn't productive.

What can you do today to move toward your goal?

Maybe the SG will want to leave with you.  Maybe taking her would be safer for both of you.  I'm not sure, but she's more likely to speak the truth to people IF she knows she can find protection and not be left to fend for herself with GC and stbx, imo.

Having GC choose to go with you is information.  You aren't a monster or an abuser.....GC feels safer with you than her mother.

Please let both girls know you love them always and forever, no matter what.  Let them know they don't have to choose between mom or dad.....they shouldn't be involved in the adult trouble at all and it's wrong if anyone asks them to.

Where will you go tomorrow?  Will you leave the house before stbx is served with divorce?

Hi EM,
I feel your pain coming through your posts. I agree with hhaw that you need to put your own oxygen mask on first. You need to get to a clear space—a sanctuary away from the crazymaking—so that you can be an oasis for your daughters. I am rooting for you.

Thanks for your support.

I don't know exactly when to execute the plan, I need to talk to the solicitor. I believe it will  be a couple of days from filing to STBX receiving the paperwork in the post. What to do surrounding the actual filing is my current struggle, I have done much of the work required but have a little bit left to organise. Right now I am still suffering a bit from a cold and feel a bit under the weather, I need to wait until I feel better, I really can't do this when I am not feeling at my best physically. I have my evidence, recordings, I have backed up all my electronic data, I know what kind of home I can afford, area, size etc. The only real issue is to take a decision about my physical items, should I just sacrifice them, or get them to storage? Then following filing, should I leave, or is it a chance she would leave when she gets the paperwork? How she reacts is unpredictable, completely unpredictable. However, I am going to speak to solicitor, ask for all the paperwork to be created and then have her ready to file when we agree to file, that could be any day. At least I am crystal clear in my mind about what I want, she won't be allowed to stop me this time.

EM:. I wouldn't worry about stuff.... At least not things I could replace.  Make  family heirlooms and cherished possessions safe.  Maybe rent a storage unit or leave them with a friend you trust.  Put small things in the trunk if your car.  Take pictures of the items in your home and make a list of the things you want to take.

A judge will want the children in a familiar home with their lives in tact....routines too.  I don't know if a Judge will put you in the family home with the kids or your stbx.  I assume you'll be asking  for that in your divorce complaint, based on your evidence?

Based on your evidence, what is your attorney and domestic violence advocate saying about your chances of  that?

IF stbx threatens suicide after you file, an evaluation would take her out of the home while getting her some outside support......you and the kids will have a moment to breathe and recover while she's gone.

The court would have more information to base a decision around who keeps the kids in the family home.  You need the court tomorrow understand what you and the children are living with, ime.

The "normal" outcome in this country is a 50/50 split of all assets and then I think default is 50/50 time with the kids with more time normally given to the mother. My solicitor told me we probably would have to sell the house, split it 50/50 then come to an agreement about the children and possible alimony. I don't think either of us would want to stay in the house post divorce, but I could be wrong.

Right now, I just need to get back to feeling my best and then get this ball rolling. As soon as I file the clock starts ticking, not before.

There are usually minimum time limits in divorces, that is, there must be at least x numbers of days between the filing and the divorce being finalized. Every day you wait to file extends the time until you can be a single person again.

If she threatens to harm herself, the kids, or you, call 999 or whatever your emergency number is.

Be mentally/emotionally prepared to do that ahead of time.

Also, you likely will want to physically wait outside the house after calling. So the situation is not further escalated. Or if she comes outside the whole neighborhood can watch, that's okay too. Get ready to have icewater in your veins.

If she goes after you, remove yourself physically - walk away. Put your hands up to protect yourself if need be. Video her asap - and let her see it.

If she blocks your exit, video her then calmly and firmly say you are leaving and she needs to step aside.

If you have absolutely no options left, mive her with the absolute minimum force. Ideally using no hands, just moving into the space you need to move into then moving away immediately, hands protecting your head if need be.

If you are audiorecording only or you can no longer control the video to show her in frame, narrate everything. "I'm going to the door, you need to step aside." "You're hitting me and you need to stop. No, you are the only one hitting anybody. I'm trying to leave."

Get it practiced in your head.

Remember everything yu say will be considered, EM.

How you say it.... no one likes snarky people, sarcastic people, snide people, threatening, intimidating or screaming people. 

Everyone appreciates people who de escalate and talk about shielding the children.

You want to be the guy the Judge trusts to keep the children safe AND support the stbx to be the best mother she can be to those girls.... even though stbx is struggling with emotional issues. 

Attorneys seem to be completely void in practical advice for navigating divorce with a PD and children involved, IME PLUS the nons are typically lacking in outside support systems and people they trust to be witnesses and help make a good plan.... keep the non on track, etc. 

I'm sorry this is so hard, EM, but you have lots of people sharing their experiences with you.  I hope you can avoid making some of our mistakes.  I hope you remain the calm, steady and consistent parent the judge wants the children to have in their life.  Remember, Judges assume ever litigant is a lying, exaggerating combatant.  it takes a minute for the PD's lies to unravel and for all your statements to be proven true....THEN the Court gets it.

So..... don't ever lose hope or stop making the best choices you can,bc nothing the PD does will end this.  You'll always be able to respond, eventually, and prove your case. 

Remember that when you're overwhelmed and in survival mode...... you always get a chance to SHOW the court the truth.  just bc the PD SAYS something or screams and writhes in pretended victimhood doesn't mean she can prove it....if you don't do something to draw negative attention, chances are you can prove your case pretty quickly.

It's when we DO things.... when we react to the PD's insanity that we end up sabotaging ourselves in court.

You really need to show up for yourself and your kids here.  YOU can make good choices the entire way, knowing the PD will do everything she can to bait and make you look like the unhinged parent.

Don't let her bait you, EM.

Do what Square and Poison Ivy said and prepare to make that call to the hospital or emergency services to report threats.... be prepared to TELL your story based on your evidence and keep it short.  Be prepared to deal with PD violence and threats and assaults..... and keep your cool while doing it. 

I really wish there was more real life support to help make the transition INTO divorce court with less risk when PDs are involved. 

Have you spoken to the domestic abuse advocates lately? if so, what are they saying about filing and leaving?

She has completely lost the plot now. The kids did a sibling squabble again this morning, this is becoming closer to bullying as it is always GC starting teasing SG (expecting backing from STBX). So after GC escalated and started screaming at SG calling her names etc SG had enough and grabbed her arm leaving a scratch mark. I decided to stay away to see how STBX would handle this, I also know that if I get involved I would be the one shouted at. So STBX first accused GC, correct in my mind, but instead of trying to calm the situation and tell GC why she had done wrong and then move on to tell SG off for the physical attack, she locked herself into the bathroom and gave GC the silent treatment for 10 minutes. GC stood banging on the door begging for her to talk but she refused. Then it escalated again between the kids as GC screamed at SG blaming her for everything, ending up with STBX in the end coming out of the bathroom telling GC as if they suddenly were best friends that she is having the same problem (she is the mum FFS). Then of course STBX and GC gangs up together on SG until she gets a panic attack and STBX confiscate SG's phone telling her she wont have it today. SG go full meltdown, she needs the phone to call us after school when we pick her up. This is when I have to enter this and tell STBX to give her the phone, this then gets even uglier as now GC complains as when her phone is confiscated she wont get it back (I use to take her phone for an hour in the evening when she is home when she has been badly behaved). SG gets the phone in the end and STBX tells SG she will never speak to her again and she can fend for herself from now on. I then took SG to school and she sat shaking in the car as she was panicking so much.

This is child abuse.

She needs locking up.

I just email my solicitor regarding filing.

Considering booking a hotel for the week for me and SG.

I wonder what would happen IF you took SG to the school counselor and chatted with them about the situation, how SG is having panic attacks and suffering.  SG NEEDS a therapist, support, protection and a way to make sense of what's happening to her, IME.  The more support, the better, IMO.

Also, I wanted to remind you to treat any really stupid question asked of you.....
AS AN OPPORUNITY TO EDUCATE THAT PERSON.

Speak in a level tone.  Give ONLY the burger when listing details.... resist giving the lettuce, tomato, condiments and bun.  Just the burger, right?  Like you're speaking to a young child or a bird.  Simple.  Short and calm. 

My heart hurts for SG.  My Mama Bear instincts want her to get some help immediately.  Maybe the school counselor or domestic violence advocate crisis intervention....... person?  I don't know what's available there. Heck, I couldn't find resourses here when I needed them.  Perhaps telling her story to the school counselor.... a compassionate listener with no dog in this fight, will help SG feel heard  and validated right now.

Remember to keep your cool, EM.  Breathe.

Thanks hhaw. Just spoke to solicitor, we are filing tomorrow. I am also allowed to take SG and stay in a hotel if needed.

Wish me luck.

You can do this, escaping man. Good luck!

Do it. And good luck. Keep your eye on the prize.

My suggestion is you *ask* GC if she would like to come, too.

And just let whatever no she gives roll right off. Just say ok and move on.

It will hurt her for you to draw the team lines.

EM:

Taking SG to a hotel sounds like a necessary move to me.

Bless your attorney for taking the time to address your crisis and steer you towards relief you won't be punished for.

I'd still take SG to see the school counselor so they can support her during this stressful time....and serve as compassionate witness..... she needs advocates.  The more the better, IME.

I can't tell you how relieved I am to read SG will be protected for now, though it's not clear how you'll get clothing and necessary items for you and SG from the family home.  Maybe you won't.  Maybe you know the stbx will be out for a while and will do it then?

Good luck, of course.  I'm so proud of you.

Hi EM. I'm sorry that it had to get to a point where you had to get away, but I /we all know how difficult it is to break free. Easier said than done, especially for  someone so obviously caring.
Good luck.Stay strong.
I hope SGs school can provide support as well.

escapingman,

I am sending you peaceful thoughts, courage, and support from afar.  You have difficult days in front of you but I know you want what is best for you children.  That single determination to provide them a peaceful home will in the long run be their anchor.

I agree with the above statements about offering GC the option.  From personal experience, those first few years with my kids were really rocky as they processed their emotions and tried to find their new normal.  We are finding our way back to each other now and I am grateful we are.  I tried to be the ballast in the whirlwind of my xOXPDh.  I admit I was not always successful but in the end, we all got there.

I will keep you in my prayers.

:bighug:

EM, wishing you all the best my friend.  Will be sending thoughts and prayers your way for determination and a focus on steady forward motion to completion of your goals of freedom of abuse for you and your children. 

SoT

EM, adding my voice to the hopes and prayers for your continued forward movement!!
Good luck
You got this!!

Thank you all for your support, just so you know I am scared shitless to pull the trigger on this.

Your fear is legitimate.  All of the emotion is.  I was a complete mess when I did it.  And it took a long time to come to terms with it.  Still am.

You got this.  We got you.

EM:

Once the divorce starts rolling.....
remember you're not responsible for protecting the stbx any more.

Protecting her is enabling her, ime. Protecting her is self sabotaging yourself, your kiddos and your legal case, so resist SAYING things like:

I just want stbx to X, Y or Z.

It's time to ask for every firm of relief available to you and the children while remaining focused on limiting the harm the stbx.

You're done hoping stbx will be appropriate, consistent, reasonable or kind to you and the children.

You're seeking relief and protections and controls.  Period.  Treatment, perhaps, but resist using medical or psych language.  Give details you can prove.  Give them without expectation or judgment. The stbx's words and actions then the affects on your children ....what happens?  How distressed are they?  How much turmoil is in the home.  How do the children cope with it and what does that look like? 

You look over your evidence, draw strongest details and events and consequences from it and stick to those with evidence at hand.

I made mistake if saying things like....."I want my girls to have a relationship with the PDs if the PDs can be appropriate.". Fir whatever reason, maybe bc I had hope, was too earnest and naiive....I wish I would have prioritized the children's safety WHILE claiming I'd support the PDs to be the best PDs they could be.  There's a difference, imo.  A steadfast refusal to muddy dangerous waters with wishy washy language and desire to be viewed as nice and MORE than reasonable.

That time passed while you were focused on other things, EM. 

Time to dial in priorities and stick to them in thought, word and deed.  Sending mixed messages will harm your ability to produce the best possible outcome, ime.

Expect discomfort at holding the stbx's feet to the fire without hesitation, bc you're going to be staring it down every day till it becomes your new default setting.

NOW is the time you go for the change your children need bc going back to court is too hard, too expensive and too little for the energy it costs.

Push for everything you can to protect the children while caring less about the stuff. 

The courts are used to litigants fighting over forks and dishes......stupid things.

You'll always be focused on your children, getting them into therapy with a trauma informed T and mitigating the harm their mother does.....always stuck to your guns in safety and supporting healing.  It's difficult for the PD and opposing counsel to verbally jujitsu that into their narrative of lies, ime.

YOU become the master of verbal jujitsu when you
Speak as though addressing a child

Give only the burger without the bun

Allege only what you can prove


Always refer to stbx with compassion

Stick to discussing the children, the children, the children.

Tell your story sans expectation

Tell your story sans judgment

THIS moment in time is your opportunity to educate court officers, school faculty and those around you about the facts involved around filing divorce and seeking protections for your family, stbx included as she's been practicing self sabotaging behaviors for years and is escalating.....you don't know why.....you keep referring back to your evidence and forming a narrative people can make sense of.

What is your narrative?

What are you asking the court to do for you?

Why?

Good luck, you're doing great, EM.

EM:

The following quote from Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. reminds me of the struggle you're taking on....

"We who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension.
We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive.
We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with."

The stbx will bleat and pose as victim, pointing to your filing the divorce, to your speaking truth about her and likening them to an attack, which, coupled with her writhing and nashing of teeth CAN appear like she's being victimized and attacked.  That's why it's imortant to speak about her ALWAYS with compassion as the mother of your children who you care about.  You just can't go on hoping her disordered behaviors will improve without interventions..... and you're asking for interentions to protect your children.  You aren;t asking for the PD to be punished...... only held accountable for her actions. 

Allege only those things you can prove with solid evidence. 

The PD will do everything she can to trigger you into reactivity.  Accept there will be great discomfort in sitting with the reactivity and wait to speak or act until you've checked you plan of action, considered your choices and respond in the best possible way to achieve your goals in every moment.

And keep breathing.  THATs what yu do when the discomfort has you crawling out of your skin...... breathe, call your attorney, check your notes, mindfully PUT ON Out of the FOG board member's filters and find the choice in every moment.

Remember to keep going back to breathing when you feel overwhelmed and terrified and out of control..... it leads to regaining clarity and choice.  Make good choices in each moment and don't let others drag you into worry about tomorrow.  Keep returning to this moment, to yourself..... you are home, you have arrived inside yourself.  It's gong to be OK.

Breathe.

This is a marathon and there's patterns to these things.  You're in a good place to get through this.  Trust.  Breathe.  Know you're moving towards the exit. 

What is your narrative?

What are you asking the court to do for you?

Why?

I just want to get free, set the girls free, end this terror, end this nightmare. That is all I ask for, nothing more.

You don't have to answer here, but you should have the answers to those questions IN your mind, perhaps practiced a bit in tone and tempo...... ready and internalized so you can speak about them without getting triggered or sidetracked, not matter what's said or alleged.

Be prepared for stupid questions like..... "WHAT DID YOU DO to the PD to MAKE her act that way?"
Remember to treat it as an opportunity to educare the person asking the question.  How would you explain it to a child? 

With simple words, short answers and only the necessary bits spoken in level tones...... zero snark.