Believing me

[Leonor]

Omg I just discovered Dr Ingrid Clayton through a YouTube interview with Dr Ramani on healing from narcissistic abuse and it was *a-maz-ing.*

It's not an easy listen, as Dr Clayton is talking about her book, Believing Me, which is about how she came to understanding that she was a trauma and addiction therapist living with undiagnosed c-ptsd from decades of growing up in an unstable, addicted house with a narcissist stepfather.

But what really spoke to me was her description of the fawn trauma response (which she credits to Pete Walker's work) and its physiological impact (which she credits to Dr van der Kolk.)

I knew about fawning, which is when victims try to survive by appeasing their abuser. It's often talked about in relation to trauma bonding and phenomena like Stockholm or battered partner syndromes.

Ingrid, though, talks about it from the point of view of her experience as a young child, and how her stepfather's narcissistic abuse, that combined harsh punishment with intense love bombing, was an intentional act of grooming her to be his victim. And she talks about how those extremes rewired her nervous system to experience complete obliteration (through the punishment) and then sudden, dizzying highs (when he would pay her attention.) So in her adult life, even as she moved away from home, lived in recovery from substance abuse, earned a PhD in clinical psychology and began her own practice working with trauma survivors, she would still find herself in abusive relationships ... That she kept operating in a fawn response even though she consciously knew all the "concepts" and had all the "memories."

I still carry an enormous burden of shame so pervasive that I've had anxiety attacks a full ocean away from my childhood home imagining that someone from my grade school or high school would see me and I would see reflected in their eyes how awful and unwashed and drunk and -I'll say promiscuous but that's not the word I use- how weird my family was and what a loser I was. I know when it happens and I can say, "Okay, you don't have to frighten yourself like this," but I still experience waves of sickening shame wash over my head from time to time.

And now I can see, a little, how all of this awfulness is really the horrid distortions projected upon me by my own creepy stepfather, and that my own confusion and desperation and messiness was just the @#€& up way the man in my house was grooming and preying on me.

And the stuff that I did as a direct inevitable consequence of that was a trauma response. All the ways I went along to get along, the ways I tried to figure out what normal looked like and imitate it, the ways I allied with my NPD/HPD mother and became her golden child, all of the ways I laid down on the floor and invited my in-laws to walk all over me and never want or need anything from my dh even when he was venting all his old trauma onto me, how I overwork even when I know there will be no raise, just so coworkers who live halfway around the world will like me ... I'm still trying to grasp that feeling of positive attention, of safety, I still feel the shame because I'm still living in the trauma response.

I have gone through so many stages and groups and therapists and modalities. I really thought at times my brain would break from processing the most awful buried memories and putting pieces from all over my early life into place. But listening to Ingrid, I could realize that omg, living with a creepy stepdad may not have been The Worst Trauma that happened to me on the scale of childhood traumas, including some that I lived through. If I tell the story to a non survivor, it might get a "well that's weird" or maybe an "ew." But it has been the most pernicious, the most pervasive, the most damaging experience and in many ways the most formative in terms of my personality. It was like growing up in a circus fun house of mirrors and upside down staircases and doors that led to nowhere. No wonder I was so lost and disoriented and petrified of the world. What was even real?

So this is very scary but, I trust, ultimately healing. I kind of wish I hadn't ever found here, but at the same time I feel like grabbing someone, anyone, by the shoulders and yelling, "This! This is it! This is real! It's a thing!"

If you are wondering if it was really all that bad, or if it was such a big deal, or if maybe you were the problem, or should have known or done better, consider finding Dr Ingrid Clayton on social media or listen to the podcast. And cuddle up in a big warm blanket with a nice cuppa something good, because you deserve to feel safe and at home in your body and soul, too.

[Cat of the Canals]

I'm also a big time fawner, and absolutely trained by my mother to respond that way, so I will definitely be checking this out when I'm feeling up to being destroyed, lol.

[Call Me Cordelia]

And the stuff that I did as a direct inevitable consequence of that was a trauma response. All the ways I went along to get along, the ways I tried to figure out what normal looked like and imitate it, the ways I allied with my NPD/HPD mother and became her golden child, all of the ways I laid down on the floor and invited my in-laws to walk all over me and never want or need anything from my dh even when he was venting all his old trauma onto me, how I overwork even when I know there will be no raise, just so coworkers who live halfway around the world will like me ... I'm still trying to grasp that feeling of positive attention, of safety, I still feel the shame because I'm still living in the trauma response.

Yes! I relate really hard to this too. My mother was the less obviously toxic parent. Even though she was the one quasi-munchausen-by-proxy-ing me. I went along with her enmeshment and became what my DH approvingly called a "low maintenance woman" and went along with the in-laws' insanity because it was the only thing I knew how to do. Until I stopped, of course.

To this day, even with all the healing that has in fact happened, I'm still an overworker for little to no reward. My reward is I get to tell myself the selflessness story again. And tell myself that other people see the halo, too. That I'm okay and worthwhile and all the unpardonable CO2 my farts emit is somehow offset by all this selfless giving.

My father, primary narcissist, never gave me any validation at all that I can recall. But my mother, she rewarded the enmeshment and self-sacrificing behavior. I learned it from her. She was the inverted narcissist to my father, so 100% sucked into the black hole orbit around him. She mirrored him, I mirrored her, and learned to get a few crumbs of self-esteem that way. I still really, really feel a bottomless need for positive attention. And it is a reliable way to get it. It's just too exhausting to be sustainable and comes with too many bad side effects. Like resentment.

[Liketheducks]

That I'm okay and worthwhile and all the unpardonable CO2 my farts emit is somehow offset by all this selfless giving.

OMG...this.   1. Just now learning that it is ok to be human.   That I can't "perfect" myself out of life's inevitable slings and arrows.   And. 2.  My mother taught me growing up and still espouses...ladies don't fart.  Now, in middle age....I'm like....she'll explode....or must jet herself around her house when no one's looking. 

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi all! I loved that interview as well. I really appreciated the long form interview and they talked about the "where was everyone else?" question.

Her relatives and mother were not clued in to the stepfather's abuse of Ingrid and Ingrid had such a solid way of sharing her story and what she felt as a kid.

Leonor, thanks for sharing about how this podcast helped you. I've been learning more about how we can stay in the fawn or freeze response for years after the trauma is behind us. It sucks to find that out but also helpful to know we can get ourselves out of it.

Trees

[olivegirl]

Count me in as a fellow fawner.

I also feel immense shame regarding my parents as they are prolific liars and have committed some very egregious and highly disturbing acts to others. 

And have no remorse!

My shame over who my parents are and the mortification that my own parents sadistically enjoy humiliating and backstabbing me led me to avoid looking people in the eye.

I was so desperate to be loved and accepted by my in-laws that my toxic parents felt threatened and proceeded to smear me horribly to them!

I soon found myself fawning to both my parents and in-laws, begging them to just stop giving me a hard time and badmouthing me to my husband.

Of course my in-laws believed my parents because why would they lie about my character and intentions right?

My husband and I were so stressed that we wisely made the decision to relocate 1000 miles away from our families of origin.

There are so many layers to the abuse and even though I am safe and far away from both sets of parents, I won't feel completely free until they are gone. 

While I cognitively understand that my authoritarian parents are very disturbed, high conflict and evil beings and that their behavior reflects on their character, I still struggle with a deep sense of shame and social anxiety.

Thank you for your post Leonor!  I learn so much from you! 

[countrygirl]

Leonor,

Thank you so much for your amazing post.  You went through hell, but in this post I see your shining spirit, which is shining light on the dark places we have been, and to which we are sometimes compelled to return.  But if we do return, we are no longer alone.  We have each other.

[BuzzyBee]

Leonor

You are spot on. I love Dr. Romani. I've been trying to heal and also have been learning about how trauma is stored in our bodies. I think it's a mind and body connection if releasing it and forming new neural pathways. There are so many good free resources on YouTube and natural things you can do to take care of yourself and heal. Its hard but so worth it! I recently tried cellular release therapy with a qualified therapist and it helped so much with the trauma bond I had with my mom. I released alot of things, but being around her or any FOO brings about a trauma trigger in my and I get in that inner child place of fear and loss of control. I'm certain you're fears of seeing people from your hometown bring this up in you as well. I think its a normal response to constant abuse. I hope you find each day a bit better and know that even if they came around you are strong and their stories are lies. It was never true. You are safe from them now. Blessings to you!

[bloomie]

Leonor - Once again, you have communicated powerfully and poignantly in a way that cuts deep.

So few people get the malignancy that arises from fawning. There is something in the very nature of fawning that, as quick as can be when threatened or abused, gaslighted, those of us who have lived in an atmosphere of risk that is insidious, beyond our young ability to recognize or understand, kick dust over the offense. It is obscured, but felt, absorbed, we become smaller and our edges are worn down without our permission and we become someone we were never meant to be.

We cope. With everything. We become human doings, always okay, never needing anything ever, giving from an empty cup, wondering what in the world is wrong with us, growing seeds of resentment and making ridiculous mistakes and the shame foolish choices as we allow relationships with toxic people to be everything to us. 

I still carry an enormous burden of shame so pervasive that I've had anxiety attacks a full ocean away from my childhood home imagining that someone from my grade school or high school would see me and I would see reflected in their eyes how awful and unwashed and drunk and -I'll say promiscuous but that's not the word I use- how weird my family was and what a loser I was. I know when it happens and I can say, "Okay, you don't have to frighten yourself like this," but I still experience waves of sickening shame wash over my head from time to time.

How are you fighting back against the lies that shame brings when it comes knocking at your door?

[moglow]

But it has been the most pernicious, the most pervasive, the most damaging experience and in many ways the most formative in terms of my personality. It was like growing up in a circus fun house of mirrors and upside down staircases and doors that led to nowhere. No wonder I was so lost and disoriented and petrified of the world. What was even real? ... If you are wondering if it was really all that bad, or if it was such a big deal, or if maybe you were the problem, or should have known or done better ...

I spent my life in just that place - always doubting myself because everything was ignored, shrugged off, being told repeatedly that I *was most assuredly* the problem and everything bad was laid at my feet in countless ways and scenarios. Witnessing mommie dearest behavior towards my brothers just the past few years, listening to them and even having them share memories I seem to have blanked - it's healing and devastating at the same time. I find myself lost in some ways, feeling like there's something missing inside even knowing the root of it all.

We weren't allowed "self" were we? We were focused on survival in their system, and unfortunately for many of us that continued well into adulthood. The fawning you mention makes perfect sense to me, getting through however we could until the next explosion. Because there was always one. So we lived life on the edge, and in shame that others saw what we lived.

I don't have much to offer today other than true caring and compassion for you. I'm here with you, Leonor.