Oh no this is going to change everything! Bad news today..,..

[moglow]

The mind boggles. He doesn't get that question asked and answered doesn't mean the answer changes when he asks again. Like beating a dead horse, it just stinks up the place and all you want is to get away.
 
My only/best advice still is to stop engaging those "conversations." You're doing what you can do just like you said - you have other obligations that deserve your full and undivided attention as well. He insists yet again that you "make an effort" after you've told him what you can/will do, he gets silence then hard change of subject. IF something were to change I'm sure you let him know in plenty of time to make other arrangements. Tell him so and move on to something else, and you'll call him on friday/pick a day. Dont call or answer his calls until that day, but do call when you say you will. And STILL dont have same conversation again. Claim another call coming in or an appointment you have to get to. Talk to you soon byyyyyye!

It's not easy and yes I've done it [no, it doesn't end well but it does end until she tries again]. Every time mommie dearest brought up xyz subjects, I cut it off with change of my own and/or ending the call. She'd even make snide "oh but you don't want to hear that" comments. Nope! Didn't acknowledge those either. I had to show her and refuse to engage, consistently. I said what I said and I meant it. Her battering me over the head with it just pushed me further away.

It sounds like you're doing as we were all taught - when they/parents demand, we jump. We explain. We apologize. We try to placate. They never learned No or Enough, we're not allowed them. Practice this in your head: Dad. I already told you xyz... That's what I can do and what i'm planning. If that were to change i'd tell you. Him: "but but but" There aren't any buts. You told me what you wanted and I told you what I can do. I have an appt to get to now, I'll call you Friday morning. Bye now! [And honestly? It annoys the crap out of me that he never shows interest in your family, his grandchildren other than as a means to an end! Mine is very similar with hers - none of us exist unless she wants something. The self involvement with total lack of awareness is nauseating.]

We have to get out of the habit of JADE - justify, argue, defend, explain- where our lives are concerned. We aren't required to explain every detail of "why/why not" just because someone disagrees. They can just disagree, and the world continues on.

[moglow]

I still get the feeling your dad's just bored and concocting "problems" to occupy his mind/time, thinking to drag you off into them if he tries hard enough. You figure, if he's treating you, your brother and others this way, fewer people are even willing to engage with him on any level anymore. I'm sure he has no idea why that might be, but seriously. Most people have limits - to say nothing of other things going on in general.

I'm sorry for the loss of your cousin - what that dear soul must have put up with over the years.

[p123]

The mind boggles. He doesn't get that question asked and answered doesn't mean the answer changes when he asks again. Like beating a dead horse, it just stinks up the place and all you want is to get away.
 
My only/best advice still is to stop engaging those "conversations." You're doing what you can do just like you said - you have other obligations that deserve your full and undivided attention as well. He insists yet again that you "make an effort" after you've told him what you can/will do, he gets silence then hard change of subject. IF something were to change I'm sure you let him know in plenty of time to make other arrangements. Tell him so and move on to something else, and you'll call him on friday/pick a day. Dont call or answer his calls until that day, but do call when you say you will. And STILL dont have same conversation again. Claim another call coming in or an appointment you have to get to. Talk to you soon byyyyyye!

It's not easy and yes I've done it [no, it doesn't end well but it does end until she tries again]. Every time mommie dearest brought up xyz subjects, I cut it off with change of my own and/or ending the call. She'd even make snide "oh but you don't want to hear that" comments. Nope! Didn't acknowledge those either. I had to show her and refuse to engage, consistently. I said what I said and I meant it. Her battering me over the head with it just pushed me further away.

It sounds like you're doing as we were all taught - when they/parents demand, we jump. We explain. We apologize. We try to placate. They never learned No or Enough, we're not allowed them. Practice this in your head: Dad. I already told you xyz... That's what I can do and what i'm planning. If that were to change i'd tell you. Him: "but but but" There aren't any buts. You told me what you wanted and I told you what I can do. I have an appt to get to now, I'll call you Friday morning. Bye now! [And honestly? It annoys the crap out of me that he never shows interest in your family, his grandchildren other than as a means to an end! Mine is very similar with hers - none of us exist unless she wants something. The self involvement with total lack of awareness is nauseating.]

We have to get out of the habit of JADE - justify, argue, defend, explain- where our lives are concerned. We aren't required to explain every detail of "why/why not" just because someone disagrees. They can just disagree, and the world continues on.

Yeh its hard because when I visit I get it full force - hes got a captive audience.....
He won't let it go.

My wife has been ill for years. Not major, major shes got fibromyalgia. Shes a nurse its been tough with kids as well. Dad knows this (or should I say has been told).
Can guarantee if I pointed out that I can't do xyz because wife is ill and has been for years he'd say "Oh is she?"

Its all about him and no-one else matters. You can see why my wife can't bear to talk to him.

[p123]

I still get the feeling your dad's just bored and concocting "problems" to occupy his mind/time, thinking to drag you off into them if he tries hard enough. You figure, if he's treating you, your brother and others this way, fewer people are even willing to engage with him on any level anymore. I'm sure he has no idea why that might be, but seriously. Most people have limits - to say nothing of other things going on in general.

I'm sorry for the loss of your cousin - what that dear soul must have put up with over the years.

Its because he absolutely cannot cope or doesnt want to cope. He wants someone to do everything for him. He likes it when that happens. Otherwise he will sit there and make up scenarios in his head and think "whos going to do that for me?"

Yeh his cousin, Graham we did have a falling out years ago. He was a lot of a FM. Then he seemed to realise and we had a few honest chats. I felt sorry for him and the way he was treated. Dad would phone him and tell he was ill and get him to take him to the hospital where they'd wait 5-6 hours (nothing wrong with dad of course!

Dad has very few friends etc left. Hes treated them all badly. Even people who used to give him a lift to church hide from him now - he takes advantage of people and takes things for granted. BUT he doesnt notice -skin like a rhino!

[lkdrymom]

I've done those 6 hour ER visits for nothing.  And the worst part is they act like they are doing you the favor by taking them there. My father really thought I had nothing to fill my time on the weekend so instead of going to the doctor on his own during the week he'd wait until the weekend and then we'd be required to go to the ER. He'd act as if he was doing me the favor because he didn't pull me out of work.  You just wonder how their mind works.  And yes it is just boredom.  They never matured past childhood or teenage years and expect someone to entertain them or do for them because they just can't "make the effort" themselves.  Maybe that is what you should say to your father ...that the next time he has a problem he should "make the effort" to handle it himself. 

[p123]

I've done those 6 hour ER visits for nothing.  And the worst part is they act like they are doing you the favor by taking them there. My father really thought I had nothing to fill my time on the weekend so instead of going to the doctor on his own during the week he'd wait until the weekend and then we'd be required to go to the ER. He'd act as if he was doing me the favor because he didn't pull me out of work.  You just wonder how their mind works.  And yes it is just boredom.  They never matured past childhood or teenage years and expect someone to entertain them or do for them because they just can't "make the effort" themselves.  Maybe that is what you should say to your father ...that the next time he has a problem he should "make the effort" to handle it himself.

Yep. Thing is doctors will never say "nothing wrong with you". Number of times they've said "an infection" and to him that means IT WAS BAD.

He is a hypochondriac to be honest- always convinced theres something wrong with him. I once asked him how he though he was health wise - his answer "awful health - couldnt be worse" Crazy.

Thing is with Dad hes been told I've got other responsibilites so he knows this just in his head hes so ill hes got to come first.

[p123]

To be honest his whole attitude needs to change. He still seems to think that hes my Dad, he can tell me what to do, and I've got to listen.

Been away on business the last two days. Only to the west midlands here in the uk (telford). All I've had from him is "be careful" "dont do this dont do that". Jeez I'm not going to get mugged or killed. Why on earth he thinks I need his advice.

Yes in his head hes being caring - in reality its just damn annoying.

Still no news of the funeral. He did say on the phone last night "Im so glad you said you could definitely come". Eh? I said "I would probably come but let me know the date". Brother apparently, starts a new job next week so won't be going - so not even asked his new employer then. Truth is hes probably made that up completely because he doesnt want to take dad. Jeez - so sick of this "brothers job is important he can't miss work" and "well you're at home anyway so I'm sure they won't mind".

[lkdrymom]

My father was pretty easy going but every once in awhile when he wanted his way he would sternly say "Lkdrymom!  I AM YOUR FATHER!"   My response would be "And? What does that mean? I'm supposed to do as you say?  I'm a sef supporting adult so I don't have to do anything I don't want to!".

[nanotech]

Hey P123. Firstly I'm very sorry for you loss and I hope you can separate your grief for your cousin from your concern about your dad. I suggest you contact Age Concern or similar as they will have clear information re care and cost etc. Knowledge is always better than the opposite.

Your dad is gonna throw all his toys out of the pram. All of them. As people have said; boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.  It's all you can do. Write down, for yourself, what you will and will not do. Also write down what you KNOW the old boy is gonna say (cos nothing as predictable as a PD) and what you will say when he does. Practice it so he doesn't catch you off guard. And lastly, I sense a real lingering sense of guilt and obligation in your good self. This is perhaps the time to work on this or he will consume your headspace. You can't afford that.  Good luck mate.

Thanks BB some very good ideas here....

Yeh very predictable to be honest. I almost know before he says it.

Its going to be a fight. Part of the problem is he doesnt see it as me having any sort of opinion or say in the matter. In his head, he needs this so I've got to do it and everything and everyone else has to make way.

I don't how many times I've told him as well that him saying "Make a big effort please" to do this that or the other is VERY VERY rude indeed. Its like saying I don't make any effort at all. If he wants to see NO effort then hes in for a shock.

I saw some helpful online advice recently - regarding boundaries. Apparently if you tell them not to say something to you because it's rude and/ or you dislike it, then that's not a boundary. It doesn't change their behaviour for next time.

You have to calmly explain that if they say that again to you, you will end the conversation then and there, either by  leaving the room/ house or by quietly / firmly ending the call. That's a boundary.
I know this sounds confrontational, but it isn't if you stay really calm and log into your rationality rather than your emotions. You'd probably only have to do this once of maybe twice, for it to work.
I've taught myself how to do this and I've used it successfully to close down two family members. They were trying to re enlist me as their personal slave and their emotion dumpee.
I know you're thinking you're right by explaining to your dad that it's rude (therefore you feel hurt) but I think this emotional reaction gives him some supply and therefore some satisfaction that he's getting to you.

They have to have a tangible consequence before they'll stop. If he sees that he loses any communication with you the minute he says anything like this, he'll stop pdq. He'll have to. Because the alternative will mean having no communication with you.
If you can tell him in a way that isn't an emotional response you'll be successful. This is where medium chill and grey rock come in.
Reasoning with them doesn't work, nor does appealing to them to consider OUR feelings.  They don't want to and they can't anyway.
They think relationships consist of emotional vicious circles which need to be fed into then fed from.
If you can nip the emotional and manipulative  language in the bud, it can really wheelspoke the whole process of control.
As soon as you hear it, 'Gotta go! Bye dad!"

[square]

I think that's a great point. When he hears you getting annoyed/upset, inside he is thinking "this is working."

He figures he can get what he wants by upsetting you and making you want to give in so it stops.

With a normal human being, expressing that you are not happy makes them want to avoid that. With your dad, he feels like "ah, getting close to the jackpot now."

[p123]

Hey P123. Firstly I'm very sorry for you loss and I hope you can separate your grief for your cousin from your concern about your dad. I suggest you contact Age Concern or similar as they will have clear information re care and cost etc. Knowledge is always better than the opposite.

Your dad is gonna throw all his toys out of the pram. All of them. As people have said; boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.  It's all you can do. Write down, for yourself, what you will and will not do. Also write down what you KNOW the old boy is gonna say (cos nothing as predictable as a PD) and what you will say when he does. Practice it so he doesn't catch you off guard. And lastly, I sense a real lingering sense of guilt and obligation in your good self. This is perhaps the time to work on this or he will consume your headspace. You can't afford that.  Good luck mate.

Thanks BB some very good ideas here....

Yeh very predictable to be honest. I almost know before he says it.

Its going to be a fight. Part of the problem is he doesnt see it as me having any sort of opinion or say in the matter. In his head, he needs this so I've got to do it and everything and everyone else has to make way.

I don't how many times I've told him as well that him saying "Make a big effort please" to do this that or the other is VERY VERY rude indeed. Its like saying I don't make any effort at all. If he wants to see NO effort then hes in for a shock.

I saw some helpful online advice recently - regarding boundaries. Apparently if you tell them not to say something to you because it's rude and/ or you dislike it, then that's not a boundary. It doesn't change their behaviour for next time.

You have to calmly explain that if they say that again to you, you will end the conversation then and there, either by  leaving the room/ house or by quietly / firmly ending the call. That's a boundary.
I know this sounds confrontational, but it isn't if you stay really calm and log into your rationality rather than your emotions. You'd probably only have to do this once of maybe twice, for it to work.
I've taught myself how to do this and I've used it successfully to close down two family members. They were trying to re enlist me as their personal slave and their emotion dumpee.
I know you're thinking you're right by explaining to your dad that it's rude (therefore you feel hurt) but I think this emotional reaction gives him some supply and therefore some satisfaction that he's getting to you.

They have to have a tangible consequence before they'll stop. If he sees that he loses any communication with you the minute he says anything like this, he'll stop pdq. He'll have to. Because the alternative will mean having no communication with you.
If you can tell him in a way that isn't an emotional response you'll be successful. This is where medium chill and grey rock come in.
Reasoning with them doesn't work, nor does appealing to them to consider OUR feelings.  They don't want to and they can't anyway.
They think relationships consist of emotional vicious circles which need to be fed into then fed from.
If you can nip the emotional and manipulative  language in the bud, it can really wheelspoke the whole process of control.
As soon as you hear it, 'Gotta go! Bye dad!"

yeh might have to do that. Probably 20 times I've said this "can you make a big effort?" is just damn rude and he just says "oh I dont mean to be I just really need you to do it".

Its not me though, it is really rude, isn't it?

[p123]

I think that's a great point. When he hears you getting annoyed/upset, inside he is thinking "this is working."

He figures he can get what he wants by upsetting you and making you want to give in so it stops.

With a normal human being, expressing that you are not happy makes them want to avoid that. With your dad, he feels like "ah, getting close to the jackpot now."

Yeh that could be the other thing.

What he doesnt get is the mpre he annoys me the less I visit.

Last night he was awful on the phone. His cousin used to visit him twice a week. Now I'm getting "Im struggling with xyz illness". (Dads always been the same the - he gets better and worse depening on his mood). And how dramatic is this "I have'nt seen a SOUL all week". Jeez.

"I won't expect I'll see a SOUL all weekend unless you visit". Yep nice one. Hes using this to get his way for me to add on weekend visits again - "Oh just bring x (daughter)". Under no illusions this is a ploy to get me to visit - he has no interest in my daughter at all - can gaurantee she'll just have to sit there.

[NarcKiddo]

I think these are some excellent points.

"can you make a big effort" is rude and it would annoy me, too. But telling an adult they are being rude is treating them like a child. Also it gives room to argue, as you are finding. Either they deny that it is rude, or they say they didn't mean it that way but they still need you to do xyz, as your dad is doing. You are just going into an endless ping pong of "you are childish", "no, you are childish" and automatically puts everyone on the defensive. Then you get into JADE.

He knows you don't like it when he asks you to make an effort but he has no real consequences. Examples of consequences have been given. There could be a time when you don't want to (or can't) invoke the consequence, and guaranteed he will find that at some point. For instance the consequence is you walking out or ending the call. But there are times when you might take him out for a meal and you've only just started eating. It's hard to walk out immediately so you need something else up your sleeve. Which could be you mentally walking away. "No, dad. I am making as much effort as I can. Isn't this a nice meal?" Repeated as often as necessary until the time he says it when you can pay the bill and leave. At which point you can make it clear that he has repeatedly overstepped the boundary and you are now taking him home and will not be visiting or taking calls from him for x period. You could even have a chart in your head that each transgression at a time when you cannot impose the boundary at once earns him x days of later boundary.

Also, what do you say when he says he won't see anyone unless you visit? Relentless agreeing with them often stops them in their tracks when they use this trick. "Yes, I suppose so." On repeat.When he gets to "So, will you visit?" you just tell him whatever you had agreed/decided to do about visiting. And if you have some "terribly important work" that prevents you from visiting, or "some house guests", so be it. My mother has always openly said she would rather be lied to than insulted, so I usually just make up some fairly important-sounding prior engagement because in her case that goes down better than if I just said "I don't want to".

[hhaw]

To be honest his whole attitude needs to change. He still seems to think that hes my Dad, he can tell me what to do, and I've got to listen.

P: 

Your f's attitude will never change and it's likely your brother will continue to sidestep volunteering with your father.

From where I'm sitting, it's your attitude and expectations could do with some changing.

1.  Accept your dad as he is...broken, immature, selfish and outward focused on getting all his needs met by those with the weakest boundaries who buy into his unconscious belief system.

You were raised to have that belief system and it holds power over you if you buy in, even a little, ime.

Your brother, perhaps, developed sturdier boundaries, even if you see him as sidesteppi g his duty, which is your father's narrative. 

You have the choice to drop your father's banner, take a lesson from brother and sturdy your boundaries then enforce them without fail, doubt or a second thought, imo......but you don't.

You said your dad's "whole attitude needs to change" and I'm here to tell you
it
will
not
change, even a bit.

You know you have a family requiring your time....you don't need excuses or permission to care for yourself or your family.

What might help is accepting your father's brokenness, giving up hope he'll change, doing what you can then putting the story on a shelf so you may turn towards the joy in front of you and waste less or no time being vexed by your father.  It seems tour brother has accomplished this, in his own way, and maybe you're telling a story around his choices....brither expects you to pick up his slack.

Maybe the message could be...Dad needs to find ways to get his needs met and it's ok if he has unrealistic and dysfunctional expectations of you and FOO and he's never going to change.

All you can truly change is your perceptions, your words and actions in relation to your dad, brother, self and family.

Every time your father whines, it seems to create upset for you, feelings of being unjustly accused and put upon for you, and you see it as something your father must change or do or stop doing.

Your father will never do that.  Not for you or anyone, bc he's broken and can't.  If he could have, he would have.

Other posters are right about setting boundaries....
Dad, if you do A, I will do B.

You state a boundary then follow through without hesitation.

I can't change the FOG seemingly plaguing you, but I'll share a story my T shared with me recently.

Two Japanese monks are walking a dirt path after a rain.  One monk is older.  One monk very young.

These monks follow a strict code forbidding any touch of a woman. 

Wgen they find their path blocked by a woman clutching her pristine white kimono at a mud puddles edge, the elder monk lifts her, carries her across the puddle and deposits her on the other side without a word.

2 hours down the path, the younger monk can no longer hold his tongue.....he can't understand why the older monk touched the woman as it's forbidden.....his upset is all he can think of.

The elder monk responds...
"I put that woman down 2 hours ago.  Why are you still carrying her?"

I see it this way, p.....
You're still carrying around your father's expectations and judgments, even if you aren't conscious of it.

You have yet to make peace with the fact your F is wrong and wrong thinking with no reason or hope of changing.

What would it mean for you to completely give up hope your father will change?

What would have to happen for you to offer to help your brother and F arrange grocery deliveries and ubers/shuttles available to your father for any and all appointments he needs to attend?

What would it mean to visit your F 2x a year, on your schedule?  Not F's?

What would it mean if you enforced your stated boundaries ruthlessly and without wasting a moment worrying I,to the future or ruminating past discussions or situations?

For me, it felt like I was giving up, turning my back or leaving a small child in the road to fend for itself, when it was simply stating healthy boundaries I was entitled to and holding them without emotional energy, doubt or the reflexive reactivity I'd been programmed to have in early childhood.

Your wrestling with that programming, ime and putting it down has unconscious meaning you can discern, make peace with, accept and change OR not change, ime.

Your still carrying the woman without realizing you could have put her down miles ago....and maybe your brother put her down miles ago.

I'm not saying I got everything right.  I'm saying your nose seems pressed to the Pebble that is your problematic father and his behaviors.

What if the problem is about your perceptions and emotional proximity which narrows your vision to only that one Dad sized Pebble, too often, when really a little distance would provide you with an expanded view of the entire field....other pebbles and the trees, shrubs, rivers, grass and sky?

That one buys into the PD narrative, even a smidge, makes the PD narrative real in our lives and powerful, ime.

Giving up hope the PD can change....accepting things as they are....
figuring out how to disarm any and all unconscious PD beliefs systems is worth examining, bc the PDs are who they are, without apology or hope of changing, ime.

Your father installed the software program in your child's Nervouse System, you coped as best you could to survive, F knows where the buttons are and feels entitled to push them.

Awareness is the beginning of sea change in New coping strategies and giving up old reflexive patterns, ime.

Acceptance and learning to sit with the discomfort of facing and changing old programming leads to expanding one's window of resilience until the discomfort melts into knowing and self care without so much FOG, ime.

The FOG comes and goes.

The discomfort ebbs and flows.

Your inner child begins to understand and trust you'll keep him safe and release his obligations to PDFather.....the power and pain change form, ime.

Have you spoken to your brother about his views on F's demands and dependency... without judment?

Dropping judgment helps see what's behind the obvious, ime.

What would it mean for you to stop seeing your father for 6months? 

To skip your cousin's funeral without making excuses?

To focus ONLY on yourself, wife and child for 6 months, a year, from now on?

I'm asking you to answer that for yourself, without judging or flinching.  Whether you answer on the board is less important.

Why are you still buying into your father's belief you have to change and do as he tells you to do?

That's worth some reflection, ime.

Or not: )

[lkdrymom]

"You know Dad, I  DO make the effort and it is never enough.  If I made the effort to visit every week, you'd want the visit and two phone calls.  And if I did that, you'd want visits every other day and daily phone calls.  I can't be responsible for you. You need to MAKE THE EFFORT to be responsible for yourself and if you feel you can't we need to seriously talk about placing you in a home.  Don't worry about the cost, I DON'T NEED your money.  Please use it to take care of yourself because I can't, and no amount of 'effort' is going to change that."

[Leonor]

Hi P,

I'm with HeeHaw on this one.

When I read "this changes everything," after many years of reading histories of your dad's ridiculousness, my first thought was, "this changes nothing."

Because nothing will change, dear P, until you change.

Your dad is an insufferable man.  But he's also an old man. It's not reasonable, or even fair, for you to expect, hope, wish, gripe, or wonder why he doesn't change.

And as long as he has this vise grip on your psyche, all the energy you are expending in your relationship with him, its trials and tribulations, it's irritations and annoyances, its visits and  errands, its heartbreak and frustration, is diverted from your family, your wife and children.

Of course your wife and children won't visit him with you! How much fun would it be for them to be with you while your nerves are clenched with anxiety on the way there? To sit and watch the two of you fuss at each other? To hear how impossible or incomprehensible or insensitive he is the whole way home?

P, there are a lot of posters here who absolutely empathize with you (me included) and also with your wife (me included.) She's paying the price for your enmeshment with your dad.

Nothing has to change with your dad, P - not his attitude, not your visits, not your relationship with him.

But if you can change how you see him - as the cranky little old man he is - everything else will.

[doglady]

The advice on this thread is beyond awesome and helpful. So sensible and doable.

Heehaw and Nanotech have given you really actionable ideas, p123. However, you've been given similar wonderful advice before. At the risk of offending you, I want to add that I've noticed that when you've been given similar helpful and/or challenging advice in the past, you either tend to not respond directly to it, or you make a slightly unrelated comment and/or  then go offline for a while. I'm not sure whether this is some avoidance/anxiety taken on your part towards changing your *own* behaviours.

Please read and reread these great ideas and please put them into practice if you possible can.

I also want to congratulate on the progress you have made over the years. Please don't slide back. Keep going and try to implement the excellent suggestions that have been given in this thread.

Also, my condolences on the loss of your cousin.

[Happypants]

P123, I completely agree that there has been some phenomenal advice given here.  I do understand how hurtful it is when parents advocate for one sibling over the other purely because of similar direction career- or lifestyle-wise (my brother followed in my fathers career path, and no other "job" will ever live up to that!). All I really want to add is that you've very much got your own family and life, and in order to live with any peace I truly believe your only next step is to put some of the above advice into action.  Simply put, you can't go on turning yourself inside out at his whim forever!

[SunnyMeadow]

The advice on this thread is beyond awesome and helpful. So sensible and doable.

Heehaw and Nanotech have given you really actionable ideas, p123. However, you've been given similar wonderful advice before. At the risk of offending you, I want to add that I've noticed that when you've been given similar helpful and/or challenging advice in the past, you either tend to not respond directly to it, or you make a slightly unrelated comment and/or  then go offline for a while. I'm not sure whether this is some avoidance/anxiety taken on your part towards changing your *own* behaviours.

Please read and reread these great ideas and please put them into practice if you possible can.

Good post, I hope p123 can put some of these ideas into practice. It's hard and scary to stand up to a lifelong narcissistic parent. I remember writing a similar post to p123 years ago. It wasn't well received. I just couldn't believe the same issue was repeatedly being posted with pages of replies over and over. Woman Interrupted wrote her last post here to p123 before she died with no response from him. I thought it was sad.

All of you have repeatedly given him very good advice and baby steps to make the task easier. So yes, hopefully he will put some of these ideas into actions. I'll bet he'd have less stress and feel empowered if he did.

[p123]

The advice on this thread is beyond awesome and helpful. So sensible and doable.

Heehaw and Nanotech have given you really actionable ideas, p123. However, you've been given similar wonderful advice before. At the risk of offending you, I want to add that I've noticed that when you've been given similar helpful and/or challenging advice in the past, you either tend to not respond directly to it, or you make a slightly unrelated comment and/or  then go offline for a while. I'm not sure whether this is some avoidance/anxiety taken on your part towards changing your *own* behaviours.

Please read and reread these great ideas and please put them into practice if you possible can.

Good post, I hope p123 can put some of these ideas into practice. It's hard and scary to stand up to a lifelong narcissistic parent. I remember writing a similar post to p123 years ago. It wasn't well received. I just couldn't believe the same issue was repeatedly being posted with pages of replies over and over. Woman Interrupted wrote her last post here to p123 before she died with no response from him. I thought it was sad.

All of you have repeatedly given him very good advice and baby steps to make the task easier. So yes, hopefully he will put some of these ideas into actions. I'll bet he'd have less stress and feel empowered if he did.

Must admit I read this post a few times and still find its content a bit.... hmmmm

Yes I will admit I do get a bit ranty and I'm sorry for that.  And yes I do find it hard to implement things sometimes./...

However, I sense a lot of irritation from you about my posts. Why? I dont get it.

The comment about WI was REALLY unnecessary as well IMHO. Why did you do that?