Healthy Boundaries: Literally

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I've been posting a fair amount lately on the nature of boundaries, primarily that they are about us making our own positive and protective choices, and not about controlling others or punishing them.

I feel a lot of anxiety when I'm depending on someone unreliable to meet my needs. I can accept that the person is in fact not going to meet my needs and think about things in a different way. Already, this reduces the stress that comes from placing our needs in the wrong hands.

As I behave in a healthy manner, rather than trying to control others, I feel good about myself rather than feeling bad about what I said or did.

I have a relative (not my H) who is dealing with things by trying very hard to control those around them. Not only is the relative blowing up their relationships, but they are clearly so, so stressed and unhappy. I much prefer to just control myself.

I've found real health benefits from reducing the stress. I am well aware that not every situation is the same, and I would be very stressed in other situations, but while my relationship is in shambles, my day to day life is much calmer.

The benefits to my health are to a degree that other people notice, and those people are noticing with zero context (they don't know my situation, or if they know a bit, they don't know of any improvements).

So that's my boundaries success story. I was in poor health some years back. I was overloading my system with adrenaline. There were more factors than boundaries but boundaries were absolutely the foundation to what changed.

Just want to note: There are situations where boundaries unfortunately will have to come down to total removal of self from toxicity. That's part of accepting we can't make someone else change.

[Starboard Song]

The benefits to my health are to a degree that other people notice, and those people are noticing with zero context (they don't know my situation, or if they know a bit, they don't know of any improvements).

So that's my boundaries success story.

Wow. That's pretty affirming. Well done, you.

Boundaries are such a weird space. Like you say, it is tempting to make them the equivalent of a fence around your antagonist: these are things you can't do. But you're right. They are supposed to be about us: what we will or will not do, or engage with. And I always toss in these two attributes: good boundaries can be enforced without resorting to nuclear options, and there are some people and situations that simply make boundaries non-administerable.

Your success is all the more impressive because enforcing boundaries can be soooo exhausting. The idea is to be noble and detached, and to be just casually neither do nor engage with those things we say we will not do or engage with. But in real life, we found that enforcing those boundaries left us upset and tired and arguing with our antagonists in our heads at all hours of the day and night.

Did you have any tricks for not doing that? For letting go of the decision and stress? Because really, enforcing a boundary upsets someone else, and it is so often someone with whom we are pretty entangled.

[Queenfrog]

I am just beginning to learn about setting boundaries in my own life. One thing I have noticed, Starboard Song, is that it helps if I apply JADE to my interior thoughts.

in real life, we found that enforcing those boundaries left us upset and tired and arguing with our antagonists in our heads at all hours of the day and night.

Did you have any tricks for not doing that? For letting go of the decision and stress? Because really, enforcing a boundary upsets someone else, and it is so often someone with whom we are pretty entangled.

When I set a boundary and it upsets my PDh, I try to be mindful of my thoughts. I don't have to justify, argue, defend, or explain - even to myself! I've made my statement and that's it. I can tune him out, both externally and internally. Busy my mind with something else. If I'm flooded, I can leave for a time and get myself collected. It doesn't matter any more who is right and who is wrong on any particular thing. I don't have to cater to his constant commands, demands, criticisms, etc. Period.

I used to think that ruminating on him and our relationship was something I did out of care for him. It's certainly easier to tune someone out if you don't care about them. But now I realize that this type of rumination is not good for either him or me. I honestly believe it's better for HIS mental health if I set proper boundaries. I'm only beginning to understand the ways in which I have co-created our unhealthy relationship. Focusing too much on his anxiety-driven thoughts and views is one of those ways. Also, if I do that, I'm not really giving myself the "time out" that I need.
 

[sunshine702]

In phone calls with Narc mom I decided I would just press the end button when she was psychologically vomiting about my scapegoated brother with (((his bad thing))) du jour.   I do not have to listen to it. I don't want to listen to it.  I have tried reasoning and changing the subject but her childlike brain just HAS to. So my boundary is hanging up.  I can claim dead cell phone or reception later if I want.

Having this "what I will do" boundary makes me feel better

[bloomie]

So that's my boundaries success story. I was in poor health some years back. I was overloading my system with adrenaline. There were more factors than boundaries but boundaries were absolutely the foundation to what changed.

Just want to note: There are situations where boundaries unfortunately will have to come down to total removal of self from toxicity. That's part of accepting we can't make someone else change.

The connection you make here between the noticeable improvement in your health and the part that the reduction in stress developing healthy boundaries has played in your life is inspiring to keep on keeping on!! Bravo!!! 

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Did you have any tricks for not doing that? For letting go of the decision and stress? Because really, enforcing a boundary upsets someone else, and it is so often someone with whom we are pretty entangled.

Honestly, I find it absolutely exhausting to maintain boundaries against someone who pushes and pushes.

As flawed as my husband is, he really doesn't try to control me. But MIL tries to control her family, and it's utterly exhausting and it's just incredibly upsetting to the whole family (not just me).

The biggest progress I made on my MIL was to give myself permission, counter to my values, to feel scorn for her. Her as a person, not just her behavior. To see her as weak, childish, entitled, ridiculous.

I don't really like feeling that way. I prefer to take people seriously, flaws and all, and see them as valid human beings.

We humans are equipped for survival with selective empathy. Empathy allows us to reap the staggering benefits of cooperation, without which we would have zero civilization, zero technology, zero protection and care, etc.

But the flip side of survival is that we may need to wring a chicken's neck. Or maybe even hurt another human. Selective empathy. For survival.

I also do think about how Jesus treated certain people, such as the money changers and merchants at the temple. He didn't hold their hands or psychoanalyze them or break it to them gently. He told them to get the hell out. (Paraphrasing, of course.)

I'm not him and it's not my place to do anything like that. But he did model to me that, while I am to keep the commandments, and the spirit of those includes not being spiteful or anything like that, I don't have to coddle harmful people. I can banish them from my heart if they continually cause me harm.

MIL's power over me is simply that I care that she thinks I'm a horrible DIL, that I'm ungrateful, not raised well, a liar and a sneak, a bad influence on her son, etc. That's it. I feel fear seeing her angry face and hearing her angry voice, and that's why.

I think I have been able to dismantle about 40% of my fear of her through a combination of ethical scorn and acceptance that I can't even change her mind anyway.

It's progress, at least.

[xredshoesx]

@square  you nailed it when you said this 'I can accept that the person is in fact not going to meet my needs and think about things in a different way. Already, this reduces the stress that comes from placing our needs in the wrong hands.'

that's kind of how I approach boundaries in my career and not making everything 'my stuff' has made my husband stress less too bc I'm not trauma dumping on him whatever bullshit happened at my job on the daily.


i'm glad what I learned here about boundaries can be applied to other non PD/ uPD situations .
another way I am trying to set/ maintain boundaries is to bring less/ no work home with me.  i've carved out one class period a week to do administrative tasks when I get done with the lesson activities for the day.  the kids love it (they see the game we are playing as a reward) and I have only had to lesson plan on my free/unpaid time.

[Starboard Song]

@square  you nailed it when you said this 'I can accept that the person is in fact not going to meet my needs and think about things in a different way. that's kind of how I approach boundaries in my career and not making everything 'my stuff' has made my husband stress less too bc I'm not trauma dumping on him whatever bullshit happened at my job on the daily.

 

[Rebel13]

Thank you all so much for this thread! Reading your messages and rereading the Toolbox article took me through another layer of understanding the nature of boundaries and why I need them.

I have one question: What do you think it means when it says in the Boundaries article that healthy boundaries are flexible? I guess I haven't often felt that way, maybe because the people I have usually set them with have pushed and pushed against them so I felt I had to hold on extra hard. Would appreciate any thoughts.

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They can be flexible with certain people who we trust to understand an exception is an exception.

Or in emergency or other outlier situations.

Or other reasons. The point is that the boundary is there to be healthy, not just for the sake of a boundary.

But it doesn't mean we let users stomp over us. Make the boundary as solid as you need to.

[Queenfrog]

I love setting boundaries! So, my uOCPD spouse is obsessed with the the car and especially how I park it. (Spouse doesn't drive.) Our neighbor in the next spot over is a sloppy parker, and spouse is CERTAIN that neighbor will eventually damage our car, if that hasn't already happened (long story).

Spouse's definition of a Perfect Parking Job keeps changing. For my part, I park well enough but I am not outstanding at it. So anyway. Yesterday I brought the car home. After I got out to check and adjusted my parking job twice, I knew it was good enough. I knew I was within less than two inches of where spouse wants it now, if not right on the nose. Anyway, it's well within our spot, almost perfectly straight, and the neighbors on both sides have room to park in their spots.

After I came home, spouse went to inspect the parking situation as usual. Called and said my parking job wasn't good enough and I must move it or there will be a catastrophe. I have my response worked out now. I said my parking job is good enough, I already adjusted it twice and that's my limit, and I will not be moving it. I fell into explaining for a sentence or two and then I stopped explaining. No more JADE!! Spouse ranted and raved, called me lazy, etc. I stopped answering calls and texts. Came back home when I was good and ready.

Spouse dropped the matter. Hasn't mentioned it again. In the past, there would have been a screaming match, I would have been upset, and I might even have tried to move the car. I really love skipping all that! I'm not playing. I find that when I set a clear boundary even OCPDer spends less time being upset, because it will do no good.

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Absolutely fantastic use of boundaries 🏅🏅🏅

[Starboard Song]

What do you think it means when it says in the Boundaries article that healthy boundaries are flexible?

I think there is another reason for our boundaries to be flexible. We don't want to descend into game playing and score keeping. If the boundaries are for us and if they constrain us, and if we are ever changing, then we OWN them and are free to administer them how WE see fit. The goal is peace and the ability to thrive, not to enforce a technical rule, like how many inches of pine tar are allowed on the baseball bat.

In law, there are crimes called malum in se and others that are malum prohibitum. In se is stuff that is actually bad. Murder is malum in se. Others are just rules we've set that need to be followed, like how much time you have to file your taxes: malum prohibitum.

Boundaries are malum prohibitum. They are rules, and important ones. But they are only good faith effort we are making to best describe to ourselves what we will or won't do, or engage with. And on any given day -- but never because we are caving to a bully -- we may need to adjust a little to actually effect our happiness.

[bloomie]

The goal is peace and the ability to thrive, not to enforce a technical rule, like how many inches of pine tar are allowed on the baseball bat.

When we are new at living within our limits this bit can get fuzzy.. or it has for me. Understanding that my starting gate position to anything and anyone is based upon my values, and as Starboard so wisely says, having the goal of peace and what does/does not work for me, leaves room for personal growth, changing circumstances, emergencies, or... even changing my mind. 

If not careful, fear that I will revert to past ineffectual ways of relating and be taken advantage of or lose carefully reclaimed ground, makes rigidity seem like the only way of staying safe. I also think it is a natural part of the process of all of this as the pendulum swings from too accommodating to rigidity and as we keep at it settles right there in the middle at balance.

There are some boundaries that are firm forever and others that will change or adjust, ime. The peace comes from the empowerment we now live in to make these assessments and decisions about our one and only beautiful lives! 🌸

[Rebel13]

Thanks, Starboard Song and bloomie! I will try to think about it as "healthy boundaries are flexible when we need and want them to be." Not because someone else is pressuring us to change them or make an exception.

I definitely understand the caution about rigidity. I have been rigid about things both from the fears you mention, bloomie, and also because flexibility was seen and characterized as weakness in my family.  "Once you make a decision, you have to stick to it!" Making changes -- like not wanting to do a certain activity anymore, as a child -- was seen as "quitting" and, even worse, "being a quitter." I think I am still carrying some of that around.

[Invisiblewoman]

I think certain family used to make me feel like I was violating their boundaries, if I questioned them on their choice of words and actions. It used to lead me to feel guilty and like I had done something wrong.

A good rule of thumb is if their comments or actions are a deliberate violation of my boundaries then it's not rude, or wrong to question them on their choice of words or behaviour. However that's a trap in itself with narcissistic /PD types because they are right and you are wrong. You are at the devalued position by default to them,  so discussing something they said with deliberate deceit will set them off.

Don't argue. Don't justify. You won't be able to.