Gas lighting

[Peace Lily]

How did you know you were being gas lighted / lit?  I'm not sure if I just have a bad memory. Or have I just been trained to think this is the case?

[Spring Butterfly]

People naturally have different memories of things but when it's consistently in one person's facor with blame and shame attached to all others it's pretty clear the other person isn't in touch with reality - or at least everyone else's reality.

When gaslighting was happening in the moment, right as I was experiencing it, history was being rewritten as words were spoken. When I learned to speak up and ask a simple question like "what do you mean? by x" the response was "I didn't say that" where x was the *exact* words spoken. Mind boggling.

That's when I realized if uPDm can't recognize her words seconds after they're spoken then likely every other thing I remember that she remembers different where she's painted as a saint was likely her false memory. Whether intentional or not it was gaslighting.

[Peace Lily]

This is more a case of me being told I said something I cannot remember saying which, if I said it, is to the advantage of the other person. This is not my M in this instance. It involves me having given something to the other person, which I don't think I have and they have taken said item and claimed it as rightfully theirs. I might have given it to them as I am a kind person, but the item also has sentimental value to me so ... I think not. It's confusing and I don't want to get into an argument, but coming Out of the FOG sense a need to set boundaries around this sort of tbing. I have a feeling that I have been groomed to question my own sense of reality growing up by my NPDM. The reason I think this is because I seem to be so quick to back off and say that I just can't remember if someone else states a falsehood. This is the SECOND TIME I feel an item has been taken from me in this way by the same person!

[Spring Butterfly]

That sounds quite unlikely you'd have given a sentimental item away. Yes we definitely have been groomed to question our version of reality and doubt everything. Keeping some sort of record - calendar, journal, etc helps.

[Starboard Song]

In healthy relationships, minor corruptions occur all along. And one or the other person says, "oh, well that isn't what I had meant," or "oh, I really thought you meant that." And -- now knowing there was a confusion -- we start fresh to decide how to proceed.

When it is healthy, determining if you are being gaslit is not about determining what really happened, because neither side really cares. They mutually express what their intentions are now, forgive the past, and make a fresh judgement for the future. "But you said I could borrow your Ferrari for my weekend away!" "I'm sorry, I'm sure I got us all confused, but -- and this is no judgement of you -- I am just not comfortable lending it out." "Don't worry, I understand. We can still go out for a spin, though, right?" "You bet." So easy!

In unhealthy relationships, these same corruptions are too big or too frequent to be natural. And they are used to assign blame or determine an outcome today: acting like everything is a verbal contract at law. "You won't let me give the kids a knife set?!? But you told me just last year it would be ok?" In unhealthy relationships, whether you said it or not is quite beside the point. The other party wants something now you aren't willing to give, or is dedicated to assigning blame for something in the past. Neither of these goals is productive or admirable.

In this case, if this were a healthy relationship, you could say, "I'm really embarrassed about something. You know that Indiana Jones Bobblehead? I know I lent it to you, and -- well, lord knows I'm not always the clearest communicator -- but I'm coming to regret not having it around. I know you like it too, but it would mean the world to me to have it back on our mantle, if you can give it up."

Sadly, this is a tough case where feelings can be hurt either way. But again, friends can accommodate mistakes, changed minds, and changing priorities.

Good luck.

[Peace Lily]

Thank you Spring Butterfly and Starboard. This situation has now resolved and peacefully. The person has not mentioned it again, but the item has been returned to me. I feel proud that I set a boundary and it was respected.

[athene1399]

I'm glad this worked out for you Peace Lilly. IME with my possible uPDM she hears what she wants to, then tries to hold us to it. She will "hear" someone say something completely different than the rest of the people who heard the conversation and she will argue until she's blue in the face to prove the rest of us wrong. Usually now we just drop it. It's no use arguing because she'll never admit that maybe she misheard or misinterpreted whatever.

But in your case, I'm wondering if you told your friend the item was okay to borrow and they heard what they wanted to, that they could keep it. I'm glad you were able to enforce your boundaries and peacefully.  It can be tricky when we were brought up to doubt our own sense of reality.