Witnessing Your Sibling Develop a PD/ Radically Change?

[STG3]

This forum has been so helpful for me over the years so I want to thank everyone. I've finally made my own account, and have a question I wanted to ask: I'm curious if anyone has experience with witnessing NPD (or another PD) develop in a sibling over time? To the point that they become a radically different person?

Backstory:

Presently, my sibling has the symptoms and behavioral aspects of NPD and bipolar.

We were both raised by a narcissistic sociopathic father and a narcissistic mother with BPD. My sibling was always my ally through all of this who'd call out the abuse for what it was, and though she had some egocentric traits, overall was a kind, compassionate, well-meaning person.

Over the past decade or so, I've watched as my sibling's behavior has started to mimic our parents, as she's refused to get any mental health treatment, and as she's continued to enact a cyclical abuse pattern with me. The pattern is, she lashes out at me and treats me like some kind of enemy doing terrible things to her, when in fact I've truly done nothing and she is just having a difficult relationship with reality and looking for someone to lash out at. After a great deal of anguish and me emotionally being put through the ringer, I eventually get through to her and she agrees she needs help... yet never gets it instead decides to"figure it out on her own." This, of course, never works. Now we are at the point where she had a psychotic break about a year ago where an ambulance was almost called on her.

In the fall, she had another "episode." Not a psychotic break, just your typical PD shitshow over ~*~nOtHiNg~*~  (she didn't get her way in a decision that centered around a safety issue). At that point, post-PD-shitshow, I decided to simply *stop* the abuse cycle I was in with her. Person at a bus stop all the way. I was not going to put myself through some emotional ringer and try to have any sort of breakthrough. She's made it very clear she's never going to get help willingly.

Anyway, I'm just wondering if anyone can relate to watching a sibling become an entirely new person. With my parents it's always been obvious, but this transition with my former ally and best friend has been really tough. It's been hard to call it what it is: abusive, toxic, and something I need to cut from my life as much as possible.

Also difficult when people who know us both ask me what's going on with her. They notice she seems unwell, but have no clue about the cyclical abuse pattern she's put in place with the two of us (hence why I've distanced myself). Honestly, with parents like ours it shouldn't come as THAT much of a shock but she's always been a "larger than life" type that people look up to, so I'm constantly having to deal with fielding questions about her.

[biggerfish]

Yes! A very close blood relative (I have to be very careful here) has, over the last few years, developed many of the behaviors that you've described.  I believe there to be a genetic component to this, which can present at any time, apparently.

Yes, shitshow is the right word for it. Here's where I've landed with this:

• This is a person I want in my life
• To try and figure out what's going on with this person is of no use to me or to them
• In order to keep this person in my life I need to focus entirely on ME, and my boundaries about how I am to be treated
• The best way I can show love to this person is to preserve the relationship, rather than focus on their behavior. They need my unconditional love. This means boundaries
• I'm a work in progress with the boundaries but it's getting better

I think my disordered person is a little relieved to see that I'm invested in preserving the relationship by establishing rules that they can't seem to establish themselves.

And as a result of this strategy, I think I will be able to continue to enjoy this person. Without this Out of the FOG board, I never never would have figured out that this is what I need to do.   

[Malini]

Hi STG3,

Welcome to Out of the FOG!

I grew up with an uNPD Mom and probably uNPD Dad, raised in a household marked by the alcoholism of my Dad.

I'm the older sibling and often parented my younger brother. My parents marriage is profoundly dysfunctional and triangulation was massive in my family, with uNPDM and I often being teamed up against uNPDDad and my brother, as my parents loved to use us as weapons in their personal battles.

I've had my share of problems with my sibling, but always put it down to the alcoholism in my family. Then, as we siblings came to understand the toxicity and dysfunction linked to our PD parents, we sort of found our way back to each other and I was hopeful that coming Out of the FOG would be a new beginning for us, leading to healthy, loving relationships based on respect, trust and equality.

My brother had a psychotic episode and was hospitalized about 6 years ago which lead to us coming Out of the FOG. I first went NC with my folks and he followed suit about a year after.

Having "lost" my parents and subsequently all my FOO, I clung to the hope that my brother and I could maintain a relationship as he and his family were all I had left.

For 3 years things went really well and I was hopeful. This year, unfortunately, things came to a point, things which had been brewing for about 2 years and I had to take a GIANT step back and go VVVLC in order to protect myself. I realised that I had swept a lot of his abusive/toxic behaviours under the carpet, frightened that if I challenged him and stood up for myself he would relapse into depression or commit suicide.

In my situation, I don't think my brother changed profoundly.  Looking back over 40 years, I'd say there were 5 year cycles of healthy/fun times followed by periods of estrangement after he or his wife lashed out at me. . Every time he came back to me, I gave him the benefit of the doubt (because things in his life were difficult), I felt unconditional love and a need to protect him (a grown man!!!)  and clung to the hope that things had really changed.

Before coming Out of the FOG, I was clueless to boundaries, needs, what was and wasn't normal. But having come Out of the FOG and having learnt so much through therapy and at Out of the FOG, the last time he lashed out at me I recognised the behaviour as abusive and felt strong enough to say 'no more'.

I recognised a pattern of abuse and I recognised how I had enabled his behaviour. I also realised that for years I felt guilty because I was treated marginally better than he was, I believed I was the GC and he was the SGB and felt I owed it to him to be the bigger person when he was behaving badly. Since our last conflict, where he made me the SG in the issues I had raised with respect to his behaviour, I realised that I actually had nothing to lose by putting a distance between us.

I would love to have him in my life, he can be fun, generous and kind but since I stood up for myself, he has made no attempt to contact me other than respond to my Xmas and New Year wishes.

I don't know if there is a genetic component in PDs, for me it was more the fact that once I had identified the toxic, abusive behaviours of my parents and had 'survived' going NC, I could identify them in my sibling and felt empowered enough to reduce contact with my brother to a more comfortable for me (although I didn't expect him to go silent on me).

I don't want wind of our latest estrangement to get back to my parents (they would feel so vindicated in their treatment of us) , so I am vague and breezy and change the subject when people ask me about him.

I'm sorry you're going through this, I totally understand how painful it is to lose a best friend, ally and someone who 'got' what had gone on in your family.

[STG3]

Yes! A very close blood relative (I have to be very careful here) has, over the last few years, developed many of the behaviors that you've described.  I believe there to be a genetic component to this, which can present at any time, apparently.

Yes, shitshow is the right word for it. Here's where I've landed with this:

• This is a person I want in my life
• To try and figure out what's going on with this person is of no use to me or to them
• In order to keep this person in my life I need to focus entirely on ME, and my boundaries about how I am to be treated
• The best way I can show love to this person is to preserve the relationship, rather than focus on their behavior. They need my unconditional love. This means boundaries
• I'm a work in progress with the boundaries but it's getting better

I think my disordered person is a little relieved to see that I'm invested in preserving the relationship by establishing rules that they can't seem to establish themselves.

And as a result of this strategy, I think I will be able to continue to enjoy this person. Without this Out of the FOG board, I never never would have figured out that this is what I need to do.   

Thanks for responding, biggerfish. Establishing boundaries (in both life in general and certainly with PD relatives) is SO important, so that's great you're working on that. It's so true that at the end of the day all we can really control is ourselves and all we can do is work on ourselves.

In my situation, I guess I'm forcing myself to come to terms with the fact that the familial relationship here will always be intact (I will always be X's sibling, they will always be mine) and interaction will be unavoidable at certain points, and that's fine and something I'll handle. But in terms of the close interpersonal relationship that was once shared -- that was shattered long ago and trying to act or pretend otherwise is not healthy or sustainable.

[STG3]

Hi STG3,

Welcome to Out of the FOG!

I grew up with an uNPD Mom and probably uNPD Dad, raised in a household marked by the alcoholism of my Dad.

I'm the older sibling and often parented my younger brother. My parents marriage is profoundly dysfunctional and triangulation was massive in my family, with uNPDM and I often being teamed up against uNPDDad and my brother, as my parents loved to use us as weapons in their personal battles.

I've had my share of problems with my sibling, but always put it down to the alcoholism in my family. Then, as we siblings came to understand the toxicity and dysfunction linked to our PD parents, we sort of found our way back to each other and I was hopeful that coming Out of the FOG would be a new beginning for us, leading to healthy, loving relationships based on respect, trust and equality.

My brother had a psychotic episode and was hospitalized about 6 years ago which lead to us coming Out of the FOG. I first went NC with my folks and he followed suit about a year after.

Having "lost" my parents and subsequently all my FOO, I clung to the hope that my brother and I could maintain a relationship as he and his family were all I had left.

For 3 years things went really well and I was hopeful. This year, unfortunately, things came to a point, things which had been brewing for about 2 years and I had to take a GIANT step back and go VVVLC in order to protect myself. I realised that I had swept a lot of his abusive/toxic behaviours under the carpet, frightened that if I challenged him and stood up for myself he would relapse into depression or commit suicide.

In my situation, I don't think my brother changed profoundly.  Looking back over 40 years, I'd say there were 5 year cycles of healthy/fun times followed by periods of estrangement after he or his wife lashed out at me. . Every time he came back to me, I gave him the benefit of the doubt (because things in his life were difficult), I felt unconditional love and a need to protect him (a grown man!!!)  and clung to the hope that things had really changed.

Before coming Out of the FOG, I was clueless to boundaries, needs, what was and wasn't normal. But having come Out of the FOG and having learnt so much through therapy and at Out of the FOG, the last time he lashed out at me I recognised the behaviour as abusive and felt strong enough to say 'no more'.

I recognised a pattern of abuse and I recognised how I had enabled his behaviour. I also realised that for years I felt guilty because I was treated marginally better than he was, I believed I was the GC and he was the SGB and felt I owed it to him to be the bigger person when he was behaving badly. Since our last conflict, where he made me the SG in the issues I had raised with respect to his behaviour, I realised that I actually had nothing to lose by putting a distance between us.

I would love to have him in my life, he can be fun, generous and kind but since I stood up for myself, he has made no attempt to contact me other than respond to my Xmas and New Year wishes.

I don't know if there is a genetic component in PDs, for me it was more the fact that once I had identified the toxic, abusive behaviours of my parents and had 'survived' going NC, I could identify them in my sibling and felt empowered enough to reduce contact with my brother to a more comfortable for me (although I didn't expect him to go silent on me).

I don't want wind of our latest estrangement to get back to my parents (they would feel so vindicated in their treatment of us) , so I am vague and breezy and change the subject when people ask me about him.

I'm sorry you're going through this, I totally understand how painful it is to lose a best friend, ally and someone who 'got' what had gone on in your family.

Thanks, Malini, and thank you for taking the time to respond.

I definitely see aspects in your story mirrored in my life. It really is difficult when your sibling is all you have left in your FOO, and they can often be fun, generous, and kind. As a rational non-PD person it just leaves you wondering "wait why can't it just be like this all of the time?" and it's so easy to hope for the best, especially if there's no one extenuating circumstance causing any of it. After awhile, I discovered with this PD person that the surrounding circumstances don't matter; she thrives on drama and chaos and will always find ways to cause it and latch onto it, no matter what. There will always be something. There will always be an excuse.

It's heartbreaking on the one hand, but on the other, I just remind myself that I didn't survive the childhood that I had to re-live it again in adulthood. Once you recognize the cycle of abuse, you really can't un-see it. Time for me to break the cycle with my FOC.