I am VLC with my parents, but each time I spend more than ten minutes with them, they bring up some new aspect of how they are changing their will. Are they doing this to try to remain in control? I am actually tired of hearing about it. I have my own money and am not counting on anything from them anyway. They gave me a copy of their will a few years ago, and it stated remaining assets will be split between me and my older sister 50/50 except for one thing. They named my sister as executor and are allowing her to take a payment of her choosing from their assets to compensate for her time and to also pay anyone else she hires to help her out. After that, then she is to split whatever remains with me 50/50. I was a bit appalled at that condition because my parents effectively allowed my sister to use her own judgement on what to give me. I have been No Contact with her for over one year. Her judgement toward me will not be objective.
Also, my parents recently said my sister had them re-write their will so any assets that would have gone to her will instead be distributed directly to her children. My sister wanted any inheritance to pass through her and go to her kids. My parents then told me to make sure any of my inheritance from them does not go to any of the kids on my husband's side and asked that I keep it only on my side. They asked that I keep their money "in the family". What the heck is this all about? My parents do not have a ton of money, so this all seems like posturing and manipulation. I wonder if my GC sister is working some weird angle. Does anyone else have similar things going on in your family?
Quote from: Blueberry Pancakes on October 14, 2019, 09:37:56 AM
I am VLC with my parents, but each time I spend more than ten minutes with them, they bring up some new aspect of how they are changing their will. Are they doing this to try to remain in control? I am actually tired of hearing about it. I have my own money and am not counting on anything from them anyway. They gave me a copy of their will a few years ago, and it stated remaining assets will be split between me and my older sister 50/50 except for one thing. They named my sister as executor and are allowing her to take a payment of her choosing from their assets to compensate for her time and to also pay anyone else she hires to help her out. After that, then she is to split whatever remains with me 50/50. I was a bit appalled at that condition because my parents effectively allowed my sister to use her own judgement on what to give me. I have been No Contact with her for over one year. Her judgement toward me will not be objective.
Also, my parents recently said my sister had them re-write their will so any assets that would have gone to her will instead be distributed directly to her children. My sister wanted any inheritance to pass through her and go to her kids. My parents then told me to make sure any of my inheritance from them does not go to any of the kids on my husband's side and asked that I keep it only on my side. They asked that I keep their money "in the family". What the heck is this all about? My parents do not have a ton of money, so this all seems like posturing and manipulation. I wonder if my GC sister is working some weird angle. Does anyone else have similar things going on in your family?
Sounds well dodgy to me. Yes especially the bit about your sister being able to take a payment for her time.....
With the kids, thats not on I'd say. Sounds like sister has been at this.
My Dads the same, Yeh great Dad, thanks but don't keep going on about it as if its something to hold over me. Its a decent amount but not a HUGE amount either.
Although, despite telling him literally 100s of times, it'll all be gone if hes got to go into care. Hes better off spending it on himself now. BUT he won't listen. I suspect because brother is doing the opposite.
Another thing Dad is not listening about his will. And this is going to be trouble I know.
His savings are about £40K - so £20K each for me and my brother.
He part owns his home (he owns 40% pays rent on the rest - its complicated). This 40% he owns probably is about £60K (so £30K if it gets sold).
Brother is adamant he will move into the flat (he rents at the moment). You can see the problem here. He hasn't worked out that £30K is in fact mine at this point. Hes not the cleverest. His attitude is "well you've got a house I havent". Even if he did work that one out and he gave me his £20K cash share. hes still £10K short.
To be honest, I can foresee court cases and solicitors, abuse for me on facebook. I'm going to be the mean one who won't let him live there and pay me back the £10K (yeh right he will!)
OP - I guess you're different as your sister is the executor. If it was me I think I'd take it legal if she tried to give herself a massive fee. Surely theres laws against this?
Also, the kids thing. Seems she could be very nasty here too.
My father would mention frequently that all three of us will get “equal shares”, but he’s also named my sister as executor and she lives in his house with her family so I see nothing but drama ahead.
His assets are pretty much the same as p123’s father.
Personally I wish he’d leave me off. I have a good job and my own savings. It’s not worth the drama to me.
Quote from: GettingOOTF on October 14, 2019, 10:33:59 AM
My father would mention frequently that all three of us will get "equal shares", but he's also named my sister as executor and she lives in his house with her family so I see nothing but drama ahead.
His assets are pretty much the same as p123's father.
Personally I wish he'd leave me off. I have a good job and my own savings. It's not worth the drama to me.
Yeh I think that sometimes.... I dont want the money. I do ok anyway.
I have a LOT of experience in this department. ALOT. With this site and research/ therapy I have figured out I will not get anything. They will LIE and LEAD on to get me to do all the work, take care of them..... but in the end I will get zero. They lie.
I hope I am wrong about your situation but in my opinion you are being set up. The GC is working behind your back most likely prepping them to get all the control and the money and assets .
They are leading you on to make sure they have someone to count on when needed. (medical care)
After my brother died... there was only me and my GC NS
(there were 3 of us originally) I knew something was going on. My parents and GC NS are materialistic and place money and objects above value of people. My sister GC did a "drive by F you" one day when we were alone.
she said quote " When I am done using you... i'm going to get rid of you..... I tell ND what to do and he tells NM what to do....I AM IN CHARGE AND I AM TAKING ALL OF IT" (We are talking about a lot of money... they are very wealthy. )
My NF told me when I was alone with him...whatever I get from the inheritence he would like me to give all of it to the GC Sister..basically denouncing me as his daughter.
both times I was alone with them ..both times they just act like this is OK nothing wrong.... I have no feelings that they would be concerned about.
My NF passed and I thought maybe...just maybe... I would have a MOM for the first time in my life now that he was gone.....NOOOOO
she is just like him. Now that I am getting Out of the FOG I can see how she is so spiteful and cruel that she will NEVER let me have anything at all
I did nothing wrong...been a pattern all my life...EVEN WHEN I WAS A CHILD
Look at the patterns....did they ever want you to have anything.? ..did they give you things as gifts then take them back.? .do they lie.? make promises then not keep them???? this could be just another carrot on the string... promise that they will not keep from the grave. all the other issues regarding money with strings attached......CONTROL
My mother tried to discuss it with me several times - my response is and will remain, it's your stuff. Do with it whatever you want. And I mean it. Short of investing in kerosene and torching her hoard-fest when she's gone, I'd just as soon be left out if it.
She was visibly disappointed when my brothers and I didn't go to war when Daddy died, kept saying "you just wait, it's going to be ugly." Um no. She was stunned that we didnt argue or talk smack - to her that's just how it was supposed to be.
I stepped up as representative of the estate because I was local and available, did what had to be done. In our state the rep/executor has to contact all heirs and report back to the court all distribution. You have to answer to the court if questions arise. With Daddy's there was simply nothing to hide - there were bills to be paid and checks to be distributed, his house to be cleaned out. We had limited time so we just did what had to be done.
But talk about it, have endless discussions with her about the fate of her treasures, revisit her attempts to play divide and conquer? Nope, not interested.
I will say this though, one of mother's nieces cut the rest of her siblings out while their mother (my mother's sister) was in her final months. She stepped in as caregiver, cut off all communication and made last minute trips to the attorney to make changes to her will, claiming it was at her mother's request. She eventually made all the funeral arrangements and told her sisters what they were, but no one was allowed back to the house after - and she sold the entire property within the year. Oddly enough this is the one mother likes, and rubbed her hands gleefully while she watched that trainwreck.
I am very LC, so my parents haven't told me directly. 8-)
Brother has told me that GC Sis is the executor of my father's will. That does not feel fair and GC sister is vindictive and biased against me. :blink:
GC sister has not spoken me since I started putting up boundaries. My therapist believes that BPD mother and sister ghost me now, as I will not be manipulated. :ninja:
If my father left me money it would help my FOC and I. It would definitely make life a bit easier for us.
But I don't expect anything, so if I get anything it will be a bonus. Plus DH and I are doing well in our careers and work hard, so we will most likely get there on our steam!
I do find these efforts at continuing to stir up trouble between siblings horrible and why would any parent not want to help their children? I would never do this to my LOs.
You have to have 2 executors in the UK and I'm one of them. Brother is the other one. He's a solicitor though and NPD so I'm expecting some fun and games when my dad passes!
They did talk about inheritance a lot. Mum passed; but before she did they put the house in trust. I think it means we are less likely to have to sell it to pay any care bills for dad should he need long term nursing. But I've really no idea what will happen. And I can't ask anyone in the family.
Because of the dysfunction and estrangement in the family,there is no solid, healthy communication on it. The only conversation on it has been my brother's inexplicable idea that I alone should pay for my dad's funeral! He said that with a little legal procedure in place he could later 'get that back for me out of the will'. A solicitor would be needed.
I stupidly said yes, then thought about it, realised that he was getting me to be 'the fixer'yet again, then I said no. Also, why pay a solicitor for an unnecessary procedure?
He wasn't happy, but that was that.
He knows there is money there. My dad has some savings, and brother is the co-signer on that account. There's plenty in there for a funeral. My dad has told me this in the past.
I think when my dad dies there's nothing to stop Nbrother just transferring that money into his account. He may not, but he can.
With the co-signing thing a few years back,, my dad had fun trying to pitch us against each other. He said to me that if I had lived locally, I would have been his first choice as cosignee. ( I could literally hear him smiling over the phone! They love stirring the s... and watching us fight to be favourite.
Except I don't do that anymore, yeah!
What will be will be.
What is contestable, will be contested!
Being cosignee gives Nbrother a lot of power financially. He's also POA.
At the time parents told us sisters that you could only have on POA. THAT wasn't, and isn't true. Was it my parents lying, or Nbrother lying to my parents?
Anyway, back to the power.
He'll probably use it.
Lord knows what will occur.
BUT I will cope!
Dad also likes to talk about his lottery plans, how he divide the money into 5 and give each of his kids a portion and have one for himself.
This is money he hasn't even got hasn't won and is unlikely to win.
He just likes to be in control financially. He just wants to be 👑 of the family.
He's trying to control us all with a fairy story.
Quote from: nanotech on October 14, 2019, 05:23:46 PM
You have to have 2 executors in the UK and I'm one of them. Brother is the other one. He's a solicitor though and NPD so I'm expecting some fun and games when my dad passes!
They did talk about inheritance a lot. Mum passed; but before she did they put the house in trust. I think it means we are less likely to have to sell it to pay any care bills for dad should he need long term nursing. But I've really no idea what will happen. And I can't ask anyone in the family.
Because of the dysfunction and estrangement in the family,there is no solid, healthy communication on it. The only conversation on it has been my brother's inexplicable idea that I alone should pay for my dad's funeral! He said that with a little legal procedure in place he could later 'get that back for me out of the will'. A solicitor would be needed.
I stupidly said yes, then thought about it, realised that he was getting me to be 'the fixer'yet again, then I said no. Also, why pay a solicitor for an unnecessary procedure?
He wasn't happy, but that was that.
He knows there is money there. My dad has some savings, and brother is the co-signer on that account. There's plenty in there for a funeral. My dad has told me this in the past.
I think when my dad dies there's nothing to stop Nbrother just transferring that money into his account. He may not, but he can.
With the co-signing thing a few years back,, my dad had fun trying to pitch us against each other. He said to me that if I had lived locally, I would have been his first choice as cosignee. ( I could literally hear him smiling over the phone! They love stirring the s... and watching us fight to be favourite.
Except I don't do that anymore, yeah!
What will be will be.
What is contestable, will be contested!
Being cosignee gives Nbrother a lot of power financially. He's also POA.
At the time parents told us sisters that you could only have on POA. THAT wasn't, and isn't true. Was it my parents lying, or Nbrother lying to my parents?
Anyway, back to the power.
He'll probably use it.
Lord knows what will occur.
BUT I will cope!
Dad also likes to talk about his lottery plans, how he divide the money into 5 and give each of his kids a portion and have one for himself.
This is money he hasn't even got hasn't won and is unlikely to win.
He just likes to be in control financially. He just wants to be 👑 of the family.
He's trying to control us all with a fairy story.
So in the uk, the two executors are listed in the will? I guess Dad would have taken the easy option and listed the both of us.
So if there are two who sorts it out if there is a difference of opinion?
I wish I knew.
I think we both have to agree.
It's going to be a nightmare.
I think Nbrother will suggest to me that I bow out of it.
This is an option I think.
But I'm not going to do that.
It could be all changed by the time my dad passes. Nbrother is the only child my dad listens to and takes heed of. I may well be off the list!
My dad removed me as co-executor after a particularly nasty episode during my mother's smear campaign against me. And he (as judge, jury and executioner) gained the ultimate upper hand in telling me so. I don't remember being surprised, and perhaps didn't react in the way he would have expected (I was passive and prioritised keeping under the radar at the time for my mental health).
This was approximately 5-6 years ago and it has never come up again, but i do wonder if i'll be granted approval and sometime soon seeing as they have changed tack with me recently. They are getting older and may need help in the future, and despite everything, i'm do want to and will help. But how i'd react to the royal pardon of being placed as co-executor again, I don't know. I hope it doesn't come up. The choice between betraying myself by quietly accepting, or saying no and telling him why is one that i struggle with. But the act of removing me, and telling me, was probably the most hurtful thing he did.
Thanks to all who replied. We are all going through such similar things, it is a great outlet to have a forum to share with those who get it.
I feel like this is another way my father doesn't acknowledge that I'm an independent adult, nor does he recognize any of my achievements.
He acts like this is some grand gesture and that we will all be fighting over his money.
I have a successful career. I am the most financially successful person in my entire extended family. I'm also not petty and the kind of person who would care if someone got all the china and I only got a few mugs. My family is solidly working class, all my fathers assets were left to him by my grandparents who were frugal and made sure they saved, there is no "family china" or much money. None of us went to college and I hustled and worked my butt off to get where I am in my corporate career.
There's something about the way he stresses how we are all getting equal portions that rubs me the wrong way.
It also winds up my middle sibling. She is convinced the youngest will "cheat" us, which she probably will. But it's such a small amount of money in the great scheme of things. Also, men on my father's side live long lives. He's probably got a solid 10 years left in him at least. We are all in our 40s.
I guess the control aspect of all of this triggers something for me.
My father HAD a fair amount of money (enough to pay for my house in cash) before going into assisted living and he made sure to remind me that I get everything...only child. It was his way of keeping me around. Once he went into AL I gave up any idea of assisted living but he keeps trying to hold that grand inheritance over my head and I keep telling that that by the time he passes there won't be anything left. At least he did give one of my kids some money towards college but with the Medicaid look back that may bite us in the ass later.
Yes yes yes. This is a control move. It's easy (all you have to do is say the words), anxiety-producing (because it implies the impending death of the parent), and provocative (because it divides parental favor among siblings). And of course, ... money! Which is a BPD's favorite tool to manipulate everyone else, from "I don't have as much as you" to "I don't have any left because of you" to "I have a lot more than you" to "I have a lot and I'd like to see you dance in the false hope that you'll earn it from me." Utter BS.
The only way to win, as the movie says, is not to play. Back to your BPD toolbox: medium chill, disengagement, no JADE. Words like will and money and love and people and lawyer, they're just words. It's white noise on a television, it's traffic on a busy street.
Tend to you. Your parents are playing with your feelings, but the feelings are real. Acknowledge your reality, honor your experience.
PS. Where we're from in Europe, we can refuse an inheritance altogether. In part, we don't want to play the game. Neither do we want to tacitly accept responsibility for any "surprise" debts or liens. Let the rest of them fight over a few things like hyenas if that's what they want to do.
Quote from: GettingOOTF on October 15, 2019, 01:25:19 PM
I feel like this is another way my father doesn't acknowledge that I'm an independent adult, nor does he recognize any of my achievements.
He acts like this is some grand gesture and that we will all be fighting over his money.
I have a successful career. I am the most financially successful person in my entire extended family. I'm also not petty and the kind of person who would care if someone got all the china and I only got a few mugs. My family is solidly working class, all my fathers assets were left to him by my grandparents who were frugal and made sure they saved, there is no "family china" or much money. None of us went to college and I hustled and worked my butt off to get where I am in my corporate career.
There's something about the way he stresses how we are all getting equal portions that rubs me the wrong way.
It also winds up my middle sibling. She is convinced the youngest will "cheat" us, which she probably will. But it's such a small amount of money in the great scheme of things. Also, men on my father's side live long lives. He's probably got a solid 10 years left in him at least. We are all in our 40s.
I guess the control aspect of all of this triggers something for me.
Yep Dad and his "inheritance". Would think it was a billion pounds sometimes....
Yes its ok - about £100K between two of all told. But I'm not going to starve without it. Just flipping spend it on yourself!
My mom doesn't talk much about inheritance. As an only child, in order for her to not be equal she'd have to start doing something weird like leaving it only to one of my kids or to a cousin or something, so it's never been a thing. I also fully expect the eventual nursing home to take it all if she doesn't lose it due to poor money management.But life insurance though...
At one point she decided she didn't want to pay for life insurance anymore. Her exact quote was "What do I care, I'll be dead?" so she asked my husband and I if we wanted to pay for it. At which point my husband asked, "do we really want to be paying for something that is basically taking bets on when she'll die?" The answer was no and we declined. It was yet another odd moment that highlighted that she only cares about herself and no one else.
Quote from: GettingOOTF on October 15, 2019, 01:25:19 PM
I feel like this is another way my father doesn't acknowledge that I'm an independent adult, nor does he recognize any of my achievements.
He acts like this is some grand gesture and that we will all be fighting over his money.
I have a successful career. I am the most financially successful person in my entire extended family. I'm also not petty and the kind of person who would care if someone got all the china and I only got a few mugs. My family is solidly working class, all my fathers assets were left to him by my grandparents who were frugal and made sure they saved, there is no "family china" or much money. None of us went to college and I hustled and worked my butt off to get where I am in my corporate career.
There's something about the way he stresses how we are all getting equal portions that rubs me the wrong way.
It also winds up my middle sibling. She is convinced the youngest will "cheat" us, which she probably will. But it's such a small amount of money in the great scheme of things. Also, men on my father's side live long lives. He's probably got a solid 10 years left in him at least. We are all in our 40s.
I guess the control aspect of all of this triggers something for me.
Yes. You've made me realise why I never liked my parents stressing that the portions will all be exactly the same.
It seems a nice kind thing to say.
Yet it should go WITHOUT saying, shouldn't it?
The constant repetition of how they absolutely insist it will be equally divided, can begin to imply that maybe in order to perform this heroic task, they had to first fight their strong inclinations toward favouritism.
Possibly. I know I never liked hearing it.
Then I would have to listen to my mother say proudly that there were ' no favourites in this family!''
Ermm yes there were, and are.
Younger sis and golden child younger brother were and are clearly the favourites.
I've recognised fully and come to terms with this now, ( well nearly!) but while in the fog I didn't want to believe it. Nsister used to rant about the favouritism and I used to defend our parents.
Until my mum got seriously ill, and certain things happened so that it just couldn't be denied.,
Further, my dad has tried three times to get me to advise him on whether he should arrange Nsister's money so that she only receives so much per year. She is an awful spendaholic( addiction?) but dad this is NOT my decision- it's your responsibility !
It would probably read in his will, ' I've done this with Nsister's money on the advice of Nano!' They can't take responsibility for anything and I'd be the blame bunny. No thanks dad.
Guess what, he might blame me anyway. Who knows how he remembered our conversations! Even engaging just to say no, can amount to tacit agreement, yes, in our family!
Oh well I will deal with it as I no longer care what they all think.
The inheritance "talk" has been something that my narc parents started when my late sister and I were little girls. If we didn't allow them to control even small things in our lives the "inheritance" issue always came up. It continued even after we went no contact with them. I got calls when I was in contact with them that they were going to leave me in charge of their estate since I was better with money than my sister was. When my sister and I reunited she told me that she got the same call, ROFL!!! :stars: We both told them separately that we would be fair and divide it 50/50. Of course they both hated that and wanted us to fight and argue and get stingy towards each other. Even when my sister and I were estranged we didn't try to drive the bus over the other one.
My narc mother called me up years ago and let me know that she wanted me to be in charge of my niece's spending since she was planning to leave a great amount to her. The point of her calls to tell me that was to let me know she had no intention of leaving my two children anything. I never answered her and gave her no emotion and told her that my niece had a mother at the time and why not ask her instead of me? My mother's answer was that my sister was horrible with money and so was my niece. I don't know about my niece but I know that my sister never was horrible with money but I left it alone and my no commitment or agreement gave my narc mother her answer.
When my sister and I finally reunited, we got a call from my narc father's only living sister telling us that it was a shame we were going to be disinherited since we had walked away from our parents. Of course my narc father played his "ace in the hole", or so he thought since they think that money equates power and control. My sister and I laughed about it because we knew it was coming as we had heard our entire lives we were going to be disowned and disinherited. Did they think that we had forgotten that? :blink:
When that didn't work, our narc father contacted my sister and told her that ONE of us would inherit and the other one would get nothing but that we needed to let them know which one VERY SOON. We never reacted or said a thing so they got their answer. Even with my lovely sister no longer being here and I'm now the only child they have, I know my children and I will receive nothing and it will all go to my niece. I refuse to be in their lives and I know as the scapegoat from the beginning that I would never inherit anything from them. I hope they use that money for their medical care because they will not be receiving help from me. I did more than my part my entire life and since they have thrown me and my children under the bus and abused us so much, I would be insane to return to that nightmare life again. My niece will not take care of them either as she has her own mental issues and she is not the type to take care of others.
Just an update on UK wills. I've been reading up and yes, I think you CAN have one executor. So what I wrote before, that you have to have two, was misleading.
It's what my parents told me, I'm sure it was.
I was made executor when I was in favour with them. They don't trust older Nsis and younger sis shuns anything like this.
I fell out of favour with them a few years later ( I upset the golden child- long story but I was used as a flying monkey then thrown under the bus by my mum) so I may have been removed as executor.
I hope I have been. It's going to be a nightmare.
I've been thinking, and I might just ask him to remove me.
Soon after I got the news about being executor I had NSIS tell me that I would have to fight Nbrother (who is selfish), and that the pressure will be on ME to make sure my two sisters get their money!
I actually don't want that responsibility!
I think I may be getting set up to be the scapegoat of any mistakes made.
Any advice gratefully received!
Quote from: nanotech on October 23, 2019, 06:28:50 PM
Just an update on UK wills. I've been reading up and yes, I think you CAN have one executor. So what I wrote before, that you have to have two, was misleading.
It's what my parents told me, I'm sure it was.
I was made executor when I was in favour with them. They don't trust older Nsis and younger sis shuns anything like this.
I fell out of favour with them a few years later ( I upset the golden child- long story but I was used as a flying monkey then thrown under the bus by my mum) so I may have been removed as executor.
I hope I have been. It's going to be a nightmare.
I've been thinking, and I might just ask him to remove me.
Soon after I got the news about being executor I had NSIS tell me that I would have to fight Nbrother (who is selfish), and that the pressure will be on ME to make sure my two sisters get their money!
I actually don't want that responsibility!
I think I may be getting set up to be the scapegoat of any mistakes made.
Any advice gratefully received!
Hmm. But you can have 2? Im betting Dad has listed both of us. I know what hes like - everything has got to be equal.
Quote from: nanotech on October 23, 2019, 06:28:50 PM
Just an update on UK wills. I've been reading up and yes, I think you CAN have one executor. So what I wrote before, that you have to have two, was misleading.
It's what my parents told me, I'm sure it was.
You can certainly only have one in the UK - I was the sole executrix of mother's will. Made it soooooo much simpler, no-one to disagree with me and I could ask who I wanted for advice. If there are more executors to a will then one or more can "reserve rights" ie let the others carry on but can take over if needed - often used if people live a long way away or are unwell etc etc.
If the situation is complex then can help to have more than one, just so there is some "oversight" - when uncle died with no will and no spouse or kids, a cousin and I handled the estate for 9 beneficiaries - it really helped for us to discuss matters like "is it OK to pay £700 for house clearance" and "what shall I do with the stamp collection - auction / ebay ? " - we just wanted to make sensible decisions that we could defend if any of the distant rellies didn't agree. Really helped that we got on with each other though and had the same ethos - lets sort this properly and speedily as we can (reduced our costs from time off work and travelling etc etc )
Quote from: FlowerPot on October 24, 2019, 04:58:03 AM
Quote from: nanotech on October 23, 2019, 06:28:50 PM
Just an update on UK wills. I've been reading up and yes, I think you CAN have one executor. So what I wrote before, that you have to have two, was misleading.
It's what my parents told me, I'm sure it was.
You can certainly only have one in the UK - I was the sole executrix of mother's will. Made it soooooo much simpler, no-one to disagree with me and I could ask who I wanted for advice. If there are more executors to a will then one or more can "reserve rights" ie let the others carry on but can take over if needed - often used if people live a long way away or are unwell etc etc.
If the situation is complex then can help to have more than one, just so there is some "oversight" - when uncle died with no will and no spouse or kids, a cousin and I handled the estate for 9 beneficiaries - it really helped for us to discuss matters like "is it OK to pay £700 for house clearance" and "what shall I do with the stamp collection - auction / ebay ? " - we just wanted to make sensible decisions that we could defend if any of the distant rellies didn't agree. Really helped that we got on with each other though and had the same ethos - lets sort this properly and speedily as we can (reduced our costs from time off work and travelling etc etc )
So if theres two and they disagree? I can see that happening. My brother is far from "the sharpest tool in the shed".
Like I said, he WANTS Dad flat and will think he can have it all. Won't care or bother to understand how the law works....
Thanks flowerpot for posting your own experiences.
That's been a good help!
P123 we've added all three of our kids down as executors of our own will.
From what I've read executors have to agree on every decision. I think that you can ask a solicitor to act for you in your capacity as executor, or assist you in the process. You could find out about that.
(I might do this).
It could be a way of putting a bit of legal space between you and your bro? Once another party is involved, the power behind dysfunctional patterns of behaviour gets weakened.
I think you may need to know whether you are one or not -but it's tricky asking these things! Wouldn't know how to advise on that.
If your brother has told you that he plans to move into dad's flat after he's passed, and you haven't said anything to the contrary on that, then there's a possibility he's taking your reticence as tacit agreement.
It's just something my Nsiblings would do. :roll: :roll:
" But I TOLD you and you never said anything!" 🥵
Quote from: nanotech on October 24, 2019, 10:41:12 AM
Thanks flowerpot for posting your own experiences.
That's been a good help!
P123 we've added all three of our kids down as executors of our own will.
From what I've read executors have to agree on every decision. I think that you can ask a solicitor to act for you in your capacity as executor, or assist you in the process. You could find out about that.
(I might do this).
It could be a way of putting a bit of legal space between you and your bro? Once another party is involved, the power behind dysfunctional patterns of behaviour gets weakened.
I think you may need to know whether you are one or not -but it's tricky asking these things! Wouldn't know how to advise on that.
If your brother has told you that he plans to move into dad's flat after he's passed, and you haven't said anything to the contrary on that, then there's a possibility he's taking your reticence as tacit agreement.
It's just something my Nsiblings would do. :roll: :roll:
" But I TOLD you and you never said anything!" 🥵
Well hes mentioned it to Dad a few times.... I did say to Dad its not that simple but he ignored me.
I've seen it 100 times with brother. He'll take something thats not his, then moan all over facebook when someone asks for it back.
He did it to me years ago. His car was being repossessed. I helped him out with sorting things out - made a payment of £200 for him. I was not flush at the time. He promised to pay me back. A year later when I saw on facebook he was down the pub every day and still hadnt paid me back even though I asked him. Then I got nasty.
Then he posted all over facebook how mean I was to him, all he wanted was a little help because families do that, and I was not acting properly. Great, eh?
OMG. Just like my Nsis.
The trouble is, they only want the family help to go one way- toward them of course.
Their cause is the only cause.
Their sense of entitlement makes them act all indignant and hurt when you dare (eventually) to try to hold them to their promises.
Doing it publicly too, is an attempt to 'shame' us for even asking.
Shaming is a biggie in narcissistic thinking. It's one of their aces.
I've helped my Nsis out financially many times. There was then a time when I needed some help (I lost a job through no fault of my own, that I fought tooth and nail to keep and at that time was the main breadwinner) and she was financially very flush, but she wasn't there for me.
In fact, she sent an email to her daughter positively revelling in my misfortune, talking about 'karma' , about how she'll "be clapping her hands when Nano gets what's coming to her".
It's soooo lovely when your sister ill wishes you. :'(
( she sent the email to me by mistake. BIG mistake! )
At the time I was so used to all the help and support being so one -sided,that it didn't even occur to me to ask her for anything.
Later still, she was financially down after spendaholicking a lot, and asked me for a lot of financial help.
I was back in work by then, hubby too, and after a few shaky years we were okay once more.
She did this part publicly on a group chat, meaning to shame me into it.
That didn't work and I'm not on fb with her any more. Since then I've been mentally and physically healthier.
I said no. She tried to taunt me, then I blocked her.
They don't change.
All you can change are your responses and your reactions to them.
I stopped giving money.
This is something you have control of. Your money, your time, your decision to accommodate his territorial boasting so ( the 'I'm having the flat come what may' statement).
State your truth to him. If I were you I would not let that statement sit unchallenged.
Telling him that ' the flat will belong to both of us' is a start.
The fact that you've already got a house isn't relevant. You will own half of the flat! He can make the decision to move in. You can make the decision to fight that and force the sale of it.
You can't just hand him thousands of pounds that belong to you.
He's assuming entitlement to your property just like that!
You might really need it one day. Life is unpredictable at the best of times. At the worst of times, it's downright nasty.
A few years back, when I was deep in the FOG and didn't have a clue about NPD, I told my updM that I would look after her when she was old. My circumstances have changed. I've seen the light and told her that I can't have her in my home when she needs care. I realised she would take over my life if I let her.
Anyway, there have been many occasions since when she told me she was going to write me out if her will. I say that's fine, it's her money, she can do what she likes with it. I even called her out on using that as a threat to manipulate me, and she actually agreed :aaauuugh:
Since then, during a calmer interlude, she told me she changed her will so that I will get half and my children share the other half. That was ok by me. I'm not motivated by money, great for my children.
Light bulb moment ... It's another tool in her guilt box! Such a shame if she has to go into care, all the money will go. She knows I don't care, but now I'm going to be depriving my kids of their inheritance! And I'm left wondering if she knew exactly what she was doing when she changed her will. :wacko:
Mine is a little funny. My uPDmom likes to talk about setting up an inheritance for me, my 3 siblings and all 8 grandchildren. Except she has nothing.
What she will most likely leave behind is about $100 000 in debt to the government. :aaauuugh: Maybe more by the time she passes, she's only 56 and very healthy considering her lifestyle. Luckily me and my siblings won't be forced to take it on!
But that's it, that's our inheritance. And she expects us to be grateful for it right now!
She also talks about a tax free savings account that she had to put $5 into to open it, and that's where our inheritance will be! We get a portion of nothing from $5! Woohoo! :yes: :doh: :rofl:
Also, she seems to be trying to convince us that, this imaginary inheritance will cover the care she'll need(demands) from any/all of us currently and as she gets older! .....rrriiiggghhhtttt...... :roll:
They used to all the time but haven't lately. Maybe they've cut me out, lol.
It has been used for coercive purposes. The craziest was a couple years ago when my mother threatened to disinherit my brother if he didn't get the flu shot. It was particularly virulent that year, and my hermitish unBPD mother had us all contracting it and dying in her mind.
She's made comments to the effect that my brother and I will be wealthy when they die. But then, when my mother was threatening to leave my father, they were all of a sudden near destitution, and there was no way they could afford to live separately. 😒 Erm, ok. Maybe they'd have had to cut back on some niceties, yes, but they'd hardly have been homeless.
But it's not rational. My mother's condition causes her to bend the truth to fit her mental narrative. I can't trust her, and she'll never understand why.
DoQ
Bending the truth to suit their own narrative - yes, it's such a favourite weapon of choice for them!!
Quote from: DreamingofQuiet on October 27, 2019, 05:00:40 PM
They used to all the time but haven't lately. Maybe they've cut me out, lol.
It has been used for coercive purposes. The craziest was a couple years ago when my mother threatened to disinherit my brother if he didn't get the flu shot. It was particularly virulent that year, and my hermitish unBPD mother had us all contracting it and dying in her mind.
She's made comments to the effect that my brother and I will be wealthy when they die. But then, when my mother was threatening to leave my father, they were all of a sudden near destitution, and there was no way they could afford to live separately. 😒 Erm, ok. Maybe they'd have had to cut back on some niceties, yes, but they'd hardly have been homeless.
But it's not rational. My mother's condition causes her to bend the truth to fit her mental narrative. I can't trust her, and she'll never understand why.
DoQ
OMG thats awful. My Dad does the same - thinks he can decide what I should and shouldn't do with regards to health.
Nanotech, yep, it's the truth unfortunately. I think with my mom, and many PDs, it boils down to survival. The ends justify the means because they always feel like their backs are against the wall. Everything is high stakes. In the words of my former students, my unBPDm has "zero chill."
P123,
I appreciate your feedback. Sometimes I don't know what to think. When crazy enmeshment is all you've ever known, it's not always apparent that your family is going off the rails. I tell other people things, and they're like, "What the...?"
What's sadly funny and points up the irrationality of her threat is that if he got the flu and died from it, he wouldn't get an inheritance anyway. :stars:
I'm sorry your father also feels entitled to dictate what you do/don't do regarding your health. It's all part of the enmeshment and lack of boundaries. In my mother's case, she feels that that means she cares about us. The fact that I'm not lying awake at night worrying about HER health choices means, to her, that I don't care. Ay yi yi. The PD idea of relating is exhausting! I think that's a big part of why I tend to isolate. I expect human interaction to be engulfing and exhausting, despite years and years of evidence to the contrary. The defensive wiring is very strong.
-DoQ-
Quote from: DreamingofQuiet on October 29, 2019, 01:01:55 PM
Nanotech, yep, it's the truth unfortunately. I think with my mom, and many PDs, it boils down to survival. The ends justify the means because they always feel like their backs are against the wall. Everything is high stakes. In the words of my former students, my unBPDm has "zero chill."
P123,
I appreciate your feedback. Sometimes I don't know what to think. When crazy enmeshment is all you've ever known, it's not always apparent that your family is going off the rails. I tell other people things, and they're like, "What the...?"
What's sadly funny and points up the irrationality of her threat is that if he got the flu and died from it, he wouldn't get an inheritance anyway. :stars:
I'm sorry your father also feels entitled to dictate what you do/don't do regarding your health. It's all part of the enmeshment and lack of boundaries. In my mother's case, she feels that that means she cares about us. The fact that I'm not lying awake at night worrying about HER health choices means, to her, that I don't care. Ay yi yi. The PD idea of relating is exhausting! I think that's a big part of why I tend to isolate. I expect human interaction to be engulfing and exhausting, despite years and years of evidence to the contrary. The defensive wiring is very strong.
-DoQ-
With Dad its all super stressed with him. This is is what causes him to think of no-one but himself.
If hes ill, hes convinced its serious. If I don't visit, hes no going to be able to cope.
If I go on holidays, I'm going to get kidnapped or mugged. If I've got a cold, I'm going to end up in hospital.
Even really "silly" things are 100% stress stress stress. His TV doesn't work - its the end of the world. His gas service picks up a slight leak, engineer coming back to fix no big deal, his house is going to explode.
Of course, when I tell him the issues I've got, his attitude is thats well and good but nothing is as bad as what hes facing..... Weird.
Not helped by his very strange attitudes to things. He gets ideas about the way things work or should work and everyone needs to listen to him. And again not helped by the fact that his head is stuck in the 1950s, hes completely clueless about modern life. And he can't understand why not everyone thinks like he does.
Quote from: p123 on October 30, 2019, 06:58:05 AM
Quote from: DreamingofQuiet on October 29, 2019, 01:01:55 PM
Nanotech, yep, it's the truth unfortunately. I think with my mom, and many PDs, it boils down to survival. The ends justify the means because they always feel like their backs are against the wall. Everything is high stakes. In the words of my former students, my unBPDm has "zero chill."
P123,
I appreciate your feedback. Sometimes I don't know what to think. When crazy enmeshment is all you've ever known, it's not always apparent that your family is going off the rails. I tell other people things, and they're like, "What the...?"
What's sadly funny and points up the irrationality of her threat is that if he got the flu and died from it, he wouldn't get an inheritance anyway. :stars:
I'm sorry your father also feels entitled to dictate what you do/don't do regarding your health. It's all part of the enmeshment and lack of boundaries. In my mother's case, she feels that that means she cares about us. The fact that I'm not lying awake at night worrying about HER health choices means, to her, that I don't care. Ay yi yi. The PD idea of relating is exhausting! I think that's a big part of why I tend to isolate. I expect human interaction to be engulfing and exhausting, despite years and years of evidence to the contrary. The defensive wiring is very strong.
-DoQ-
With Dad its all super stressed with him. This is is what causes him to think of no-one but himself.
If hes ill, hes convinced its serious. If I don't visit, hes no going to be able to cope.
If I go on holidays, I'm going to get kidnapped or mugged. If I've got a cold, I'm going to end up in hospital.
Even really "silly" things are 100% stress stress stress. His TV doesn't work - its the end of the world. His gas service picks up a slight leak, engineer coming back to fix no big deal, his house is going to explode.
Of course, when I tell him the issues I've got, his attitude is thats well and good but nothing is as bad as what hes facing..... Weird.
Not helped by his very strange attitudes to things. He gets ideas about the way things work or should work and everyone needs to listen to him. And again not helped by the fact that his head is stuck in the 1950s, hes completely clueless about modern life. And he can't understand why not everyone thinks like he does.
This is my childhood! Everything is dangerous! Every tiny setback is probably going to end in complete drama and terrible tragedy!
I've been left with hyper- vigilance, anxiety, and OCD (relating to keeping others safe) that I've had treatment for, but is still work in progress.
One of my ways to reduce /manage it, is VLC or VVLC with my FOO.
Yes PDgran does this a lot. If I don't answer her calls or do whatever she wants, she threatens to leave me nothing.
Fine with me! :roll:
I've been going throught this for years. I have a GC dBPD and narcissitic sister whose entire life revolves around the inheritence from our NM (who has also suffered several strokes and has dementia).
The current version of the will has sister getting half the money outright. My half goes into a trust and when I die, the trust goes to her sister. My situation will be "Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" while sister will be free to use the money as she wishes. This is b/c I do not have children. I have a career and a solid life - have made mistakes here and there in life but I'm a good person and always tried to do the right thing for my mom. But sister is vindictive and sick and basically would love nothing more than for me to suffer a painful death.
It's a 7-figure estate and so not something you easily walk away from. But working on it.
I have experience of this with my grandfather's will. My advice based on my experience is that you cannot trust a word of what is said to you about the subject and it would never be a good idea to rely on what you are promised by a PD person. My grandfather with whom I got on well and who is now over 30 years deceased originally told his only child, my mother that she would be executor of his will. Later he told my sister that she would be his sole executor. She is my mother's scapegoat but my grandfather's favourite. My sister told me to prepare for the proverbial to hit the fan when he died. It did, but not in the way she thought. Without warning, my grandfather had made me his executor and had not told a anyone, not even me. My mother and sister both were hurt at being cast aside. I was thrust into the middle of warring BPD mother and scapegoat sister!! It may be of reassurance to those of you looking ahead to this moment that as executor, you cannot change, modify it bend the will to suit anyone - this is not legal. your own will is best written by a solicitor under your instruction, as if it is not watertight, then possibly it could be miss interpreted (intentionally or not).My mother did not accept I could not change the will in her favour - she wanted my sister's inheritance as well as her own ( generous one). I was frozen out of the family as I did not (could not ) comply!). Over 30 Christmasses ago now, I was not allowed to spend Christmas with my parents - I have only spent 2 with them since in all that time ( since 1992). My sister was not close at t be time either and so I was with friends who felt sorry for me.
I did not come much Out of the FOG then, but I did wake up to the fact that my Mum views money as power. She used it to bribe (carrot) and threaten ( as a stick). I have vowed since then to financially independent! My mother has only mentioned her will once a few months after my grandfather died - she tore it up right in front of me! Over this alone, my mother gave me SEVEN years of silent treatment ... and strangely I have been feeling really bad that they are old and alone this Christmas....
In spite of everything, I still cannot be sure I have not been left anything? And what about my Dad, the "yes man" did he go along and cut me out of here will too?. Who knows - I just know I can only really rely on myself!
Yeah, my dad kept saying how I'd get extra money for being the trustee. Like that's why I was doing it - it was insulting. My mom groomed me to do that job because she knew my brothers and sister would fight over whatever was left and I'd be the only fair, sane one.
She was right, I am the only sane one ... which is why they can stuff it. I'm not gonna do it, and I'd be okay with getting disowned because then I won't have to be involved at all. I was willing for years, but the abuse just got to be too much. I've gone NC and have an appointment with the lawyer in a couple weeks to revoke everything and change my trust, too.
The scapegoat just bit back. 8-)
Inheritances by pd family members are built on sand. They love to use money as control. They could pull the rug out from under you for any perceived slight, boundary set or if you request to be treated like an actual human being by them.
Looking back I put up with waaaaay too much emotional abuse because I didn't want to lose her house, which was in a life estate for me. It's the only inheritance I will likely get since my father will probably end up in nursing home and is good with them getting his money (which is totally fine, his choice.) I didn't know all those years though she couldn't take me off the deed without my signature. I know that now. I am now in therapy to process the trauma I went through with her. I had power all those years and didn't even know it.
Found out within the last two years she called my father and told him she wanted to take me off the house and put him back on. Not surprising. He told her it was too late since she was old. He hadn't seen her in person in probably 5 years and barely spoke to her while I was running down every weekend taking her out to lunch and catering to her. Yet I still wasn't performing as expected so to punish me she wanted to take away my inheritance, although I'd been her primary source of support for close to 20 years.
It's truly sick if you think about it. So sorry for anyone else who has had to deal with such issues. We are better off expecting nothing from them and gaining our freedom. Freedom from abuse and control, our self respect, is priceless!
My Mother has said in her will that I will only get any inheritance if I have divorced my wife and am homeless on the streets.
I believe this is called a conditional inheritance. She has left everything else to my two daughters.
Needless to say I have been no contact now for about a year with them all. My daughters are falling over themselves to help her, she is 85 soon.
Flipping heck. Why do they do this? It's horrible.
As far as I know I'm not disinherited yet. But I'm not holding my breath that it will stay the same! X
My parents aren't elderly, but they're so terrible with money I'd be shocked if there were any inheritance to give/withhold.
My PD grandparents would hold out their hoarded-up house as being full of valuable treasures. And certain family members certainly wanted it... I only ever saw thrift store rejects, personally. :unsure:
Quote from: nanotech on December 29, 2019, 10:01:24 AM
Flipping heck. Why do they do this? It's horrible.
As far as I know I'm not disinherited yet. But I'm not holding my breath that it will stay the same! X
Why do they do it?
One word: control.
Yes! For as long as i can remember. I'm 50 and have never done this with my kids. Much talk of the will. He's now in care and having to sell the home for his fees. Only the house isn't selling because he only ever repainted and never did any updating. Its like a museum to the 70's. Viewing feedback has included the 'bad vibes' 😂 He doesn't get it.
He'd go on about 'when I die get in touch with so and so estate agent he's always putting letters through my door about wanting to sell my property.' Honestly didn't realize it's just advertising and felt the estate agent has been personally targeting him because his house is so amazing and tidy.
It's also like he never thought he'd become frail. He actually said 'i thought I was too clever for this' as if aging is what happens if you're stupid.
I'm at the other end of the spectrum where my mother is so afraid of her children taking her money she refuses to do any estate planning at all. She would much rather let the government take the money than let her children have it. We ( her children) are not to be trusted, and that hurts. The projection of her feelings and motivations on to us is painful. There can be no discussion of any aging plan and my enDad goes along as he always has.
I don't expect their to be anything left to inherit as I expect them to live well into their late nineties. I don't care about the inheritance, what hurts is her ugly need to keep us from taking it away from her. As if.
So that is the dark and nasty world she lives in. One where your children want to hurt you and would if you didn't protect yourself from them. Ugh!
If I had a £ for every time my Dad said "I think I'll give my money away now rather than leave it all until I'm gone".....
He must have said that 15-20 times. Usually ends up with him giving my brother and I £100 each then he changes his mind and decides he prefers loads in the bank.
He mentioned it last week and I just said "yes ok dad". Won't happen.