Question with No Contact: Now There's a Funeral + Financial Issues

[LoverofPeace]

Hello,

I'm hoping to get help about this issue from this wonderful forum. Dealing with narcissistic family members, I have a question on how to handle what I knew was the inevitable: a funeral of a covert narc grandmother and a narc sis handling it. I have been no contact with the narc mom, sis (and eventually grandmom), whom I've had trouble with in the past when I was attacked by the sis while I was driving. While my narc mother, who had needed surgery soon, was also in the car. So, when I stopped the car and the sis got out still narcing and saying nasty things, I also got out and confronted her to make sure she didn't do any more harm. However, the narc mom defended her actions, even much later. This would make me frustrated, argue with her how this sis called me later to make an 'apology' and that she blacked out. But in true narc fashion, she still ended up saying I was the crazy one. Still, the narc mom defended her golden child (of course); I was still learning about npd at the time, so I know now I shouldn't have argued and stuff. But I slowly went no contact.

Then about a year later, the nsis moves the nmom with her from my town to hers (cool!)-this helped better in distancing myself. However, the ngrand still lived in my town. While having intended to check in on her from time to time, I eventually left that alone too, because when I called one day, she complained the nsis and things about her estate that she made the guardian of. I told her that her and the nmom never corrected her about her actions, so it made her bolder. After that talk, I called her one more time, got the nsis' greeting voice on her message machine (this was something just done), so I decided to step back from it all. Fast forward a few years later, the ngrand recently passed. This is something I was trying to figure out how to handle ahead of time, so I'd know how to deal with it if and when she or the nmom happened to pass, being in their 80's and 90's; btw, the nmom and her are not related-she is my step-grand that my dearly departed grandfather knew before I was born and was married to her for years. He went to heaven almost 20 years ago.

Okay, so now there is money my grandfather left behind for me in an account that my grandmother and now nsis is handling. My grandmother told me about it like 30 years ago, but I never asked since she didn't pass any information on to me other than show me the bank where it was deposited. I told her ever since my grandfather passed (the breadwinner) that times were hard, so worry about herself. She was trying to tell me about it when I was looking to distance myself from them after the nsis' physical attack, but I just wanted to be done with everything. However, I'm thinking my grandparents, especially grandfather, did intend that for me. My mother told me the nsis would be sending me information about it and told me the bank it's in (I think the name changed ever since). I said she can send it once she's done taking care of the funeral arrangements-something else I had to figure in what capacity I'd attend. But I don't know if I trust her about this account because I know how entitled they think they are, and she might have an irrational issue with me from confronting her that night with the car situation. I know my name's on this account. Would she have rights to touching it as the guardian of my grands' estate, or do I have the rights? I'm thinking to just contact the bank. I know this is long and packed with stuff so thanks for any advice.

P.S. I'm thinking to attend the wake and funeral but to leave before the burial (a long car ride-not feeling that!) and repast. I'm considering low contact for now and to go back to no contact after this is all said and done. Anyone else have this type of experience? Again, I was trying to research this type of situation months ago so I could just put the issue away, but couldn't really find anything on no contact, funerals, and now money issues. I'm still thinking about walking away from it because I don't want the proverbial narc carrot dangling over my head + the possible presence of more drama. Then I start thinking about how hard my wonderful grandfather worked and his wishes by leaving it for me.

Many thanks!

[bloomie]

LoverofPeace - this is a lot to think through after having stepped away. I am so sorry for the loss of your grandmother and that the relationship began to not feel safe enough to stay in closer contact near the end of her life.

I think your plan regarding attending the wake/funeral and leaving before the burial is a good one that allows you to go, show your respects, and leave when YOU need/want to.

I am a little uncertain I am understanding the details, but if there is a bank account in your name your grandmother/grandfather would've needed to set that up using your personal info. I would think contacting the bank to verify if an account even exists before stressing yourself too much over it all is a really good option.

If your sister is the one handling your grandparent's estate she has legal obligations. It might be good to research or talk with an attorney (if you decide it is worth it)  to have a better grasp of what you may/may not be entitled to and how the specifics should work. That could bring you some peace of mind.

[sandpiper]

My grandfather left money for me and my aunt too. He'd left the lion's share to his son, of course, who was also the executor and he delayed and delayed and delayed sorting out the will for nearly two years until aunt and I said we would see about getting legal help to have it pushed through. In that time he'd done a number of renovations on his house and when the will was finalised there was a paltry amount remaining. My grandmother's sisters had also ransacked her jewellery and personal items the day after she died, despite being NC with her for many years before that, so the only bits left for me were things that were broken or ugly that they didn't want. I was a young adult at the time and their behaviour hurt and puzzled me. One of my cues for going to T.
So I'd be proactive here and contact the bank before she can drain the account and then get legal advice about what you may need to do to protect it from those without ethics and in control of the estate.
If your sister has been violent in the past you also need to consider protecting yourself from that in the future.
I've seen some good discussions about funerals here over the years and the best way of summing it up is, funerals are about the living, not the dead.
You can have your own private solitary memorial for your loved one and can visit the grave alone at a later date.
My T had me go to the crematorium and find the memorial plaques for various family members and sit there and talk to them using the 'empty chair' method. You can do the same with a photo, if you want to prop it on a chair and talk to her.
I would only go to the funeral if you feel it's important to you and if there are people there who you would like to see, support and reconnect with.
I've chosen not to go to funerals of people who I won't miss or mourn because I think that's hypocritical. Dead BIL for example, went to great lengths to isolate my sister from me so I knew he wouldn't want me there in death any more than he'd wanted me there in his life. So I had a conversation with his daughter on the phone and said that as they'd chosen NC with me I was going to assume that unless I was told otherwise by my sister, I was going to assume that they still wanted NC with me and that my presence would not be welcomed at the funeral but would be invasive at their time of grief. I said that the time to work through those issues was not at the funeral and if it was wanted, we could do that later. And of course I never heard from sister or her children ever again (It's at least 10 years ago now).
This didn't work with my sister's life goals of creating maximum drama and triangulation and guilt trips. thankfully others turned up at her husband's funeral who were interested in providing the requisite melodrama so I don't think I was missed.
Anyway...the ground rule is that funerals are about the living, not the dead, and you can mourn and grieve and celebrate their lives in any way that feels appropriate for you.
If being at the funeral doesn't feel safe, appropriate or comfortable, you can send flowers and a card and express your regrets that you can't attend and - if you feel this way - tell them you will arrange a time to sit with them in private and raise a glass to her, or whatever other tradition may feel right for you.
I hope that helps.
The two funerals of NPDs that I've missed, I have no regrets about avoiding them and there is nobody who was at those funerals who I would wish to see, now. Other than nephew and niece, if they ever see through the FOG - which is highly unlikely.

[LoverofPeace]

Thanks Bloomie and Sandpiper,

I actually went ahead and called the bank and they said what I figured; that as the beneficiary I'd need the deaf certificate along with my I.D. My I.D., that's not a problem. But guess who has the certificate. So now I 'm thinking to reach out to her and let her know to bring it the day of the funeral, that I didn't plan to stay at for the burial and repast.

It just occurred to me how that would look and the supply it might give her; with me seeming to go after the money because look how I came for the certificate and left early. When it's really about me not wanting to be around her and some flying monkeys all day. And at the same time, I don't want to meet up with her one-on-one at any other time to give her a chance to possibly start something then. Plus, I'd have to make the plans to get it back to her.

Why is it when we plan no contact, there's still things coming up to pull us back in? This seems an impossible feat to overcome.

P.S. As the beneficiary, I am thinking the money can't be touched until I get to it. I'm hoping I'm right so it won't be messed over. I'd have to see about how that works.

[moglow]

Can you request a copy of the death certificate directly from the funeral home? I'd try that, bypass troublesome relative altogether if you can. Knowing you need something from them gives them a sense of power, something to hold over your head "if you do/dont xyz ..." You don't need conditions, hoops to jump through.

[Srcyu]

Hi, asking her to bring the death certificate to the funeral will most likely have you labelled as a money-grabber.
It would look pretty awful.

I had an unexpected inheritance a few years back. The only way to make any progress is to hire a legal expert.

When banks want to see the death certificate, they want the original. They take their own copy of it and then hand you the original back.

As beneficiary, your money is protected. You need a legal representative to take control of your interests.

[LoverofPeace]

Thank you, Moglow and Windmill,

Windmill is right-the bank wants only the original. But it's good to hear you say it's safe, that only the beneficiary can touch it.  That's what I surmised. With their crazy ways, however, what if she doesn't give it to me and allows it to just sit there so I can't have access, since she can't?

You're also correct about not doing that at the funeral. I don't know what I was thinking, but just scheming on ways to avoid her 1-on-1; she even took up with a new guy I never met and I don't feel comfortable at all.
She divorced her husband who was a total sweetheart and I know she put him through the ringer, like she's done me. Certain people she thinks she can give the business to, so I want no parts of her.

I don't even like that she knows about this money, because the covert ngrand who passed, was admitting, finally,  that the nsis was acting shady. Yet this should have been said out in the open and not tolerated long ago, though the grand claims she didn't know she could be like this. Well, now I feel like a target because, as stated before, she became bolder over time and thinks she's entitled to everything.

My mother claimed the nsis would be sending me information about the account and I expect her to follow through, even though she has yet to do so. I don't need anything but the certificate from her, but I want her to follow through to see if she's looking to do right and maybe I can then figure out this certificate situation. I did say to the nmom that she can let me know after finishing the funeral arrangements, so I plan to give her a chance to do that first, plus Thanksgiving is coming in any minute. Btw, I always planned to be by her side to help with something like funeral planning, but that was before her very unwarranted and dangerous attack. It's all so crazy.

Thank you all, again. I will let you know how it goes.

P.S. I know I spelled 'deaf' instead of 'death' in my last post. I was typing before going to sleep, so please forgive me. 🌌

[moglow]

When Daddy passed, I got several certified copies of his certificate, for that very reason. There was more than one bank, mortgage, creditors etc and by having several I didn't have to haul one around to all. I paid extra for them but it was worth it. That's why I suggested going direct to funeral home, preventing wrangle and excuses from your sister.

[LoverofPeace]

Hi Moglow,

The funeral home would be a great idea, if only the bank accepted copies.  .

I forgot to mention legal advice; an avenue I'd seek after seeing how the nsis acts about this. Being the funeral is coming soon after Thanksgiving, I'd have to be in some kind of contact with her anyway and planning to talk to her about it on a regular day and definitely not at the funeral. But it will be brief as possible and I don't plan to show emotion. Depending upon how that goes, I'd
proceed to the next steps without communicating with her if she is not following through. That way, she and the nmom cannot say I didn't try and I can just move on. And the account will still be there with no time limit and no touching it.

I am wondering if I should contact the bank again to let them know the specifics on the account (I only asked general questions before) and that I'd be in contact with them as soon as I have the certificate, and if they could notate that? Probably not, because nothing happens, even if she contacted them, without the proof. Anyway, she'd be doing me a favor to just present the certificate to them thinking she'd be the one to benefit, but I hope she wouldn't do something in that spirit. Just wondering about things, but I am going to go on about my day as usual and try not to obsess about it. As said before, my peace comes before anything.

Many, many, thanks!

And speaking of thanks, Happy Thanksgiving! Please give extra thanks to the animals that had to give up their own lives so that we can have ours. I wish them nothing but love and compassion; something that doesn't happen enough to those that give the ultimate gift.

God bless to you all, your family, and friends!

🙏🏽💝🦃

[bloomie]

Happy Thanksgiving to you LoverofPeace. 🦃

Just popping that to say that it is my understanding that across the US death certificates are issued by whoever was entrusted with your grandmother's remains. That could be hospital, funeral home, etc., and they can issue several 'copies' and usually you can purchase more if needed, but these are official certificates. The term 'copy' is a bit confusing in this, because it implies they are not official documents, but I would at least contact the funeral home and ask if they can provide you with an official certificate of death for your grandmother as you are one of her beneficiaries. Just some further thoughts as I know you would really like to avoid discussing this with your sister and having to need something from her.

[xredshoesx]

another perspective

what if  you walk away from the money entirely?

[moglow]

*Certified* copies were perfectly acceptable when closing my father's estate (and I paid extra for those); a simple copy would not have been. I don't know that I ever gave the original to anyone, it's probably still with the estate paperwork at home.

Depending on where you are, I believe in the US you can also order them through Bureau of Vital Statistics in his state.