Over analysing your thoughts and motives

[_apparentlywicked]

I've always over analysed my motives. I can remember many times my dad would get me to question myself 'is that really what you think?' and so on. Constantly taking away my reality and the right to my feelings. It's apparent to me that from an early age I knew he wasn't safe. I could see he was different to other adults. I was right.

I'm starting to develop self trust. I'm wondering if most of us here have this same propensity to second guess your responses and motives to a level that paralyses you. While it's good to be self aware this isn't what my dad meant to install in me. He just wanted me to hate myself as much as he hates himself. I guess when you have these children that are naturally blossoming and refining their morals that would just be a painful constant reminder of what he couldn't do.

Anyway else identified this and worked on it?

[MamaDryad]

This is one of my biggest issues. To the point that I first learned about PD's because I was convinced I must have one, because I could talk myself into disbelieving anything. Over time, I've realized that I do have an inner voice but a combination of self doubt and dissociation have been drowning it out all my life.

I still really struggle with this. The best coping strategy I've found, while continuing to work on it with journaling and therapy, is to decide that my motivation doesn't matter as much as what I do. An author I used to really like in my teens once gave the advice: "if you're afraid you're a bad person and don't want to be, start by doing what a good person would do."

It doesn't always help, but it gets me through most days.

[freedom77]

Yes, IME Ns always target the self in us. Our sense of self, our self esteem, and our belief in ourselves and what we believe to be our truth. Despite tons of evidence supporting our experiences, Ns work to dismantle reality.

In my youth, I struggled greatly with decisions, with feelings, with JADE, and with over-analyzing and 2nd guessing myself. And to this day still do question myself a lot. And compare. I try to measure up what I'm feeling against what I'm "supposed" to be feeling, or what other people are feeling.

I also still JADE, but not as bad. People have told me, "Freedom, you don't have to explain...we understand." The "you don't have to explain" intro has been recited to me a lot, because I was a very heavy JADER. This also stems from my childhood, because I wasn't allowed ownership over my feelings, I developed a deep-seated impulse to JADE over just about everything...Sad, really. Only took me decades to discover this.

I believe this is caused by a toxic molestation of our psyche starting from when we were very young, birth even. My BPD/N mother and uN grandmother did a great job of this with their stellar gaslighting skills.

[Sweetbriar]

Because we grew up with people with PD's, my thoughts are that they used disordered controlling methods on us from the time we began to speak. If we said something they didn't like, they nudged us in another direction. It's no wonder we grow up and we feel confused about what we think and know. They wanted that and messed with our heads from the beginning. It seems like parents with PD's don't want us to individuate and believe in ourselves because that is a threat to their control over us.

I over-analyze everything and doubt myself all the time, esp. since I went NC. It doesn't help that the extended FOO are also confused and in the FOG and regular people make comments about loyalty to family. I end up spending half a day wondering what the heck I am doing and doubting the inner knowing that tells me, this is good. This is good for my healing.

My intention this year is to really go deep into self-trust and believing I know what I need to heal. The hard part is, it goes against the grain but I am getting better at it. It helped this week that I wrote a long letter (that I won't send) to someone to list all the things that happened to me as a child. When I read it, I feel really certain that my parents were monsters and that backing away from them is a very healthy option for me.

[Maxtrem]

Hi, I too tend to overanalyze everything (not just my motives and thoughts). However, I don't think that's completely negative and maybe it's an innate characteristic of some people. For example, your ability to analyze allowed you to understand very early on that your father had a problem, many people don't understand it so quickly. For my part, I also quickly identified a lot of toxic behaviours in my family that I swore I would never repeat. Moreover, the analysis of our behaviours represents a questioning of our actions, which is something that DPs are incapable of doing. It's a way to break the cycle of our legacies being perpetuated from generation to generation, which is great! We must not doubt ourselves constantly, but this capacity of analysis and questioning are good qualities. I think that the problem comes more from the lack of self-confidence and/or the need for constant validation than from over-analysis.

My psychologist thinks that it is my analytical mind and my empathy that would have saved me from such a toxic family.

[Sweetbriar]

For my part, I also quickly identified a lot of toxic behaviours in my family that I swore I would never repeat.

My psychologist thinks that it is my analytical mind and my empathy that would have saved me from such a toxic family.

YES! I agree. I think very deeply and I too identified very early on that what I was seeing was mean and cruel behaviour and I never wanted to be that way. I think my deep thinking unnerved my uNPDf because he knew I was going to figure him out. So he said things to me that undermined my belief in myself. I think my analyzing and deep thinking has saved my life.

[_apparentlywicked]

Thanks for the replies maxtrem, freedom, sweet briar and mamadry. 

I love thinking! It is something my dad hasn't really ever got. I guess he was never going to be my biggest fan! Like if he makes a statement about a celebrity or something equally unimportant and I ask a simple question for clarification like 'why do you say that' you'd think I'd just demanded a 70 page thesis from him. He reacts angrily to the normal process of being asked to explain his thoughts on anything beyond 'its bad' 'its good'.

I'm definitely going to dive deep into self trust. I've got this far without being anything like my dad so feel safe to be less severe on myself. And there's definitely a fear of ever, ever being anything like him to my children. I definitely JADE too much with them!

❤️❤️

[Maxtrem]

I'm definitely going to dive deep into self trust. I've got this far without being anything like my dad so feel safe to be less severe on myself. And there's definitely a fear of ever, ever being anything like him to my children. I definitely JADE too much with them!

Maybe I'm a little off topic. I've recently realized that it can be difficult to create an identity of our own and thus limit the lack of self-confidence or the need for validation, when a PDs parent has always criticized us and belittled us at the slightest defect, no matter how small, that we had. 

About a year ago, one of my uncles passed away, he had a lot of annoying defects, he could be angry, impulsive, nervous, sometimes he drink too much... but he was also full of qualities; he was generous, hard-working, intelligent, altruistic... Today I miss him and a lot of people miss him! Not long ago, another of my uncles passed away, this one was clearly narcissistic. Very few people really miss him. The only feelings that he leaves behind to his children are related to the FOG, that's his legacy!   

We can build an identity with certain defects, even though our parents wanted to prevent us from doing so. As long as we are good people who care about others and are able to question ourselves, people will appreciate us and love us for who we are!       

[_apparentlywicked]

Maybe I'm a little off topic. I've recently realized that it can be difficult to create an identity of our own and thus limit the lack of self-confidence or the need for validation, when a PDs parent has always criticized us and belittled us at the slightest defect, no matter how small, that we had

My love you've just written the clearest definition of FOG I've ever heard. That's the heart of this and your precise insight and self doubt has led to an ability to arrow into the core of a situation. Amma right?

❤️❤️

[Maxtrem]

Maybe I'm a little off topic. I've recently realized that it can be difficult to create an identity of our own and thus limit the lack of self-confidence or the need for validation, when a PDs parent has always criticized us and belittled us at the slightest defect, no matter how small, that we had

My love you've just written the clearest definition of FOG I've ever heard. That's the heart of this and your precise insight and self doubt has led to an ability to arrow into the core of a situation. Amma right?

❤️❤️

It's very complex, but maybe yes you're right

[SpunHead13]

I agree with OP and everyone else , I too have a lot of self doubt and that was one of the things that actually helped to get me Out of the FOG (paradoxically) When I noticed how most people treat me (my feelings / opinions) and how I would get a feeling of acceptance and understanding from them, but when dealing with my FOO I'd walk away feeling a great deal of self doubt and sometimes even change what I was doing in order to make it fit what my Nm wanted.

I still struggle with self doubt, But what I found to be most helpful is going NC, and listening to and responding to my feelings. It's a slow road but I have felt improvement.

[_apparentlywicked]

I still struggle with self doubt, But what I found to be most helpful is going NC, and listening to and responding to my feelings. It's a slow road but I have felt improvement.

Yes. I see that too with myself. It's only been 2 and a half months since I saw him but it seems everyday I'm feeling more validated within myself. The way I see it going is that I'm only going to become more and more certain that I can't have any relationship with him. If he was to ask me why I'm not speaking to him (he won't) I will tell him I can't have a relationship with him until he gets some therapy to stop him being nasty when he feels remotely criticised or frustrated. And even if we got to the point where I could say this then this would set off a rage anyway.

He might have got away with all the abuse in my childhood it if he didn't lash out so much even now I'm an adult. I guess that's part of it. I so desperately wanted to have a dad (I dont have a relationship with mum)  so I almost pretended the man I was trapped in a house with as a young teen had disappeared but he hasn't. And he comes back whenever he feels bad about something and needs someone to c##p it all over. If he'd never been abusive since I left home it may have been overlooked for the rest of my life. But he has continued to be abusive during times where he's lost control like retirement, illness etc. There are other instances where I now clearly see that constant drip effect of criticism my whole life. It's horrible to even consider but I can think of specific points where he's tried to upset me even when he's not necessarily cross. Like when he wouldn't congratulate me when I told him I was expecting. He just has to withhold any validation from me. He always has. It's all so sick really. It's so horrible to have to accept how not only does he not love me, but there is a definite desire to reduce me where-ever he can. That's not even apathy.

[Sweetbriar]

_apparentlywicked - I am really grateful for this thread right now. I'm having some real anxiety this AM about being NC with my uNPDparents.

What I keep doing is overanalyzing it thru the eyes of other people - the extended FOO, one of who used to be a very close friend of mine. In her eyes I have abandoned my elderly parents. She must think that I'm a monster. That's what I keep thinking.

My uNPDf showed up at my house yesterday, uninvited. Luckily I was in the bedroom getting dressed, but my husband shouted and said he was here and let him in. What can we do? I can't imagine saying that he can't come in.

I put headphones on and listened to a youtube video from Inner Integration so that I couldn't hear my father's voice. He didn't stay long and what we've done is tell them I have been down and need some space to heal a depression that started in December. I have not directly told my parents I am NC.

Today I wake with this serious guilt, esp. bc of COVID-19 and the hell I'll get from everyone if they pass away and the guilt I will possibly feel.

Of course my father did make sure to say that my mother liked to hear from me, it cheered her up. It's always about me having to cheer them up. It's always about them. It has been since I was born.

But like your post just above, what happened to me as a child and teen, under their roof was terrible, and their behaviour has continued into their elderly age. The way they treated me in the past four years, has been ruinous for any hope I had that they may be decent people. I am the scapegoat and they've made it that way. Unfortunately the FOO see's it their way. I am the ungrateful, selfish daughter.

I wrote a long long letter to myself last week to knock me out of this FOG. It helps, but this ain't easy. I am compelled to put on the good daughter hat and be there for them. I just can't ever come to the decision that it would be good to be direct to them. It's backfired so dangerously in the past and I really don't want any more drama in my life.

Just went on FB and there was a meme that agitated me. It said that we have to face our triggers to heal. I get that that might be if your trigger is a fear of spiders, or normal conflict with someone. But how does this apply to disordered people? Facing a disordered person is like setting yourself up for failure.

[_apparentlywicked]

No it won't mean that. And if it was only a case of being near them 'just' triggered memories of historic abuse from childhood that would still be more than enough now, then and forever to decide they don't get to have you in their life. My dad very much triggers me but also abuses me still.

I want a dad but not the one I have. Not the one who hurts me. I want a dad that doesn't hurt me, that doesn't even want to hurt me. My dad wants to hurt me. I'm not going anywhere near him anymore.  Sorry if that makes anyone cross but I feel strongly that people should not let others mistreat them. My dad just can't help himself. It just is his way. I actually feel sick at the thought of having to see him ever again.

[_apparentlywicked]

I don't think you're ungrateful or selfish not wanting that. Remember your parents will be as miserable with or without you to hurt. You're not adding any misery to their lives by nc because they're not losing something they value, that's the bottom line. If they valued and cherished you you wouldn't be on Out of the FOG.

I still feel odd being honest about my dad's feelings for me. I should have been honest a long time ago but the fog and society in general equates parents with love <hollow laugh>

My dad's been a constant source of pain and disappointment. Because of all the things he hasn't and has done. It literally won't stop until either one of us dies or I push him out of my life. 

[Sweetbriar]

 
_apparentlywicked

I think the same way. My uNPDfather WANTS to hurt me. That is the sick part of personality disorder.

It has been this way since as far back as I can remember. If he cannot manipulate me with his words, all other methods were used, including hitting us in the head, so hard one time, I hit the wall. I was just a nine year old girl who had gone outside and he was furious. So instead of sitting me down and saying, "I was scared because I care about you," he rushed into the room and struck me, walked out and never said a word. There was never an apology. He viewed this s just parenting. Now that he's older he used gossip about me within the FOO to make me behave the way he thinks is right. Always around caring for him and my uNPDmother.

He wants to hurt me because he believes it will keep me in line with his view of the world. The time has come that that does no longer work. I am not tied to them. I have free will. My beautiful life does not allow abusers. Been there. Done that. I am wiser and more self-compassionate now.

[_apparentlywicked]

❤️Sweetbriar❤️

That's so far from parenting. And he'll never be sorry about it, let alone pretend.

It still feels wrong to acknowledge their hatred. It still feels like I'm being over dramatic. I think that's what my internal world was like all the time when I was a child. Recognising that he hated me somewhere in my soul but him pretending to love me. It's no wonder my first 2 long term relationships were with men who didn't love me either. But hey, they said they loved me so that's what mattered. Words matter. Actions and feelings don't.

Only now I know that's the biggest steaming pile of horsec##p ever. Too bad I worked out that love is gentle and nurturing. If someone tells me they love me but hurt me they are a liar. I should have been taught this lesson by my parents. They were never going to teach me this because they know nothing about love and relationships and boundaries and consent and intimacy and all that.

[Liketheducks]

I've always over analysed my motives. I can remember many times my dad would get me to question myself 'is that really what you think?' and so on. Constantly taking away my reality and the right to my feelings. It's apparent to me that from an early age I knew he wasn't safe. I could see he was different to other adults. I was right.

I'm starting to develop self trust. I'm wondering if most of us here have this same propensity to second guess your responses and motives to a level that paralyses you. While it's good to be self aware this isn't what my dad meant to install in me. He just wanted me to hate myself as much as he hates himself. I guess when you have these children that are naturally blossoming and refining their morals that would just be a painful constant reminder of what he couldn't do.

Anyway else identified this and worked on it?

I'm working on it now through EMDR and participating in an ACA group (which I miss with all this social distancing going on).   Finding my own voice at 51 is a new and challenging thing.    I struggled with my father abusing me and then saying it didn't happen.  My mom was trauma enmeshed with me and is a waif.    It is next level gas lighting when your parents are willing to put the child first.     Moderating the anger and sadness that bubbles up with knowing that I did deserve more....that I wasn't that bad....that I'm good enough on my own just as a person..  that I'm NOT responsible for saving them all just because my survival mode traits mean that I CAN save them all......      It's HARD work.   But, it's bringing me a greater level of peace within myself.   

[Sweetbriar]

Hi liketheducks,

I a 51 year old as well.
I want to ask you what an ACA group is?
I feel like I need an in person support group, because backing away from my family has acted like a vacuum and I think that is the source of some of my confusion and anxiety. I tried to go to an Al Anon support group a few years ago, because there is addiction in my family, but I felt out of place there, because there is no alcoholism in my family - the addictions are hoarding and gambling (and manipulating.) I got to see how AL Anon worked and how lovely and supportive they were with each other and I think I would weather this much better had I felt that kind of support, esp. because my FOO, is so resentful of me now. It's so much negative energy.

That said, I am really grateful for this site and all of the compassionate responses I have gotten here. I know you guys get what I am going thru and that helps ease some of the over analyzing I engage in.

[_apparentlywicked]

I'm almost 50. There's definitely something about this age 🤔😁