Diagnoses & Court Hearing

cgr68311 · September 12, 2022, 11:20:55 AM

Haven't posted here in a while, it's been a long year, but to recap:

been separated and 'coparenting' DS4 since 2020. 2020 was somewhat ok, 2021 revealed a lot of medical needs for DS4 including dental, etc. Getting ex to agree to medical decisions has been like herding cats, I had to go to the extreme of mailing ex certified US postal letters to get ex's attention and provide ultimatums. What broke the straw was beginning of this year ex completely refused to follow medical instructions for a chronic condition, administer meds, etc. I took ex to court. Ex's words would be like 'not going to listen to that stupid doctor unless another doctor tells me so, or I'm keeping track of his meds in my head, etc'.

Since then, we've had a family investigator assigned to our case. Ex decided to bombard me with child abuse, DV and other allegations to make me look bad with investigator. Ex called CPS police you name it. Ex even went to the extreme of shaving DS4's hair so badly it left nicks and cuts and lost the hairline. I reported that to the police and CPS. No crime committed according to them, just a poor haircut (talk about double standards).

Ex then asked the court for a broader investigation than just medical decision making. It was denied but ex did receive approval for psych evals for both of us. I was not afraid for me but afraid ex would manipulate eval since that's ex's expertise. Mind you that ex is a mental health counselor, knows exactly all of the DV protocols behind social workers ways of determining who's at fault, etc. I've known exactly what ex has been doing but my lawyer said let's keep our frame. Psych evals were done. Family report complete. Now we have trial in a few days.

Also received the case file from the investigator, and saw all the 'evidence' ex sent investigator. It was notable an email ex sent to investigator, stating something like 'I am concerned that you may determine this case to be a mutual high conflict case'... again, ex knows the DV conflict flowchart and the different outcomes depending on who's the abuser, etc.

Report was 80% favorable to me, recommending medical custody to me and mental custody to ex. All of the allegations from ex were placed in the 'not applicable' bucket since they were many years old. However, because I called police on the terrible haircut, the investigator determined that we both exercise coercive control on each other, and no one is better than the other, or more at fault than the other.

the psych report summaries said that I have some NPD traits but my awareness of the impact this is inflicting on DS4 suggests empathy. Report said due to insufficient data a diagnosis not given.

Ex's report was similar but harsher: psych doctor wrote ex arrived with guard up, resistant to follow testing protocol although eventually complied, some responses showed an attempt to minimize or hide certain traits. Report said ex has some HPD traits that are very pervasive, manipulative, dramatization, exaggerated emotionality, and a high distorted perception or ill intent filter about my intentions and 'schemes' which doctor deemed as impacting coparenting and communication. Report also said due to insufficient data a diagnosis not given to ex either.

Investigator thus said 'personality profiles' were very analogous. Hmm. On our last status conference I told the judge and investigator that yes, I'd be happy to submit to a psych eval because if there is something I'm doing wrong, I want to know so I can fix it.

Again, we have trial in a few days now. Lawyer tells me not to worry about all ex's allegations, that we need to stay on subject. I went ahead and sent ex's lawyer a settlement proposal though, stating that as long as there is no disparaging comments made to doctors, decisions are made within x timeframe and we vaccinate DS4 with all the catch up immunizations (DS4 has none), we can keep joint custody as is. Waiting to hear back.

bloomie · September 12, 2022, 01:35:42 PM

Hi and welcome back! It sure sounds like you continue dealing with a great deal. I read a bit of your back story to get a sense of things. I am so sorry. But, glad you have reached out for support.

It has to be incredibly challenging to stay focused on what you can control and in being the best possible parent you can be for your child with all of this going on. It seems like your attorney's advice to stay on subject in the coming days is wise. And also understandable how our minds can drag us into a endless loops of fear and what ifs when a precious child is involved.

I want to share some good additional resources with you around the issues of child custody and divorce. They can be found here: Separating and Divorcing Links

We can and will support the parts of this difficult process related to disordered communication and traits that you are encountering while co parenting with your ex, but the specific legal parts of the struggle are beyond what we are equipped to know best or advise you in.

Here is a bit of info that helps guide us when posting that you may find helpful: Discussions About Legal Proceedings

Keep reading and sharing. There are great resources in the Other Online Resources board as well. Sending you strength and so much wisdom as you face this challenging next few days. Let us know how you are as you are able.

cgr68311 · September 12, 2022, 04:52:33 PM

this is helpful since I am just learning that these PD's are part of cluster 'B'. My lawyer does not plan on leveraging much of ex's results but opposing counsel does plan to exploit mine even though inconclusive.

Stepping lightly · September 13, 2022, 09:16:19 AM

hi CGR,

I'm sorry you are going through so much, and even more sorry for your DS that he is experiencing the effects of a PD parent. A lot of what you wrote is very familiar with what DH and I have dealt with in regards to his ex. BM is also a PD that works in the social work/mental health and is an expert in working the system. Psych evals were done during the initial divorce/custody proceedings, but BM worked very hard to have those nullified because they did not represent well for her. Years later, we debated whether it would be prudent to repeat them due to incessant accusations from BM that DH was NPD and a sociopath (not what his psych eval said AT ALL). Experts we were working with told us that it wouldn't be a good idea, BM had all of the tools to successfully manipulate the test, or at least muddy the waters enough to make things worse. She was successful in manipulating enough professionals that she got primary custody 6 years ago. So...that's the sad stuff....let me shift to the good stuff.....

My stepkids are teenagers now and against all odds during their childhood in a significantly high conflict situation, they are lovely people that adore their father. This was not without an immense amount of devotion and patience from their father (and I helped where I could). You probably know all the below, but these were some of our lessons. There is no magic solution to make things easy, but we always focused on getting the kids to adulthood with their emotional health intact.

1- Never bad mouth the PD parent, this will never have a positive impact and will really cause pain to the child (100% of the time).
2- Laugh a lot. Be silly, like really silly. DH had this totally ridiculous dance that when things got too serious....it would no fail break a contentious situation with the kids. Be the parent they can relax around and be themselves.
3- Build trust- this one is HUGE to me. It's tempting to "out" the PD based on what the child is telling you. If your DS comes back filled with vile lies, "mommy says....", we found that it did no good to call out the PD directly (unless the child is being put in danger). This puts the child in the middle and will ultimately make them cautious on what they tell you (potentially consequences with the PD) and you will end up in a nasty circular conversation with the PD that you will not come out on top. Document, document, document. Even for court testimony, we were very careful about what we used for testimony to protect the relationship (this only goes so far in court, but it's better than a constant betrayal of confidence). Our main goal was always....keep the kids talking because at the very minimum, you know what is going on and can support them.
4- Don't ask kids about what happens at mom's- let them share what they are comfortable with, but don't b dig deep to get more info. We found that BM would know the minute by minute details of the kids time with us within an hour of them returning to her....and that had to be awful for them. Recently my DSS15 made a comment about something at his mom's that was "news", and I asked like 2 questions and dropped it so he didn't regret the slip. If you get good at #3, you will know more than if you try to dig.
5- A PD is very skilled at demonizing any decision you make, choose option A- bad parent, Choose option B-bad parent. it took a long time to stop trying to navigate this and figure out the "right answer", but to choose the best answer in our opinion and just document our thought process behind it. I struggled to understand how a PD can reliable put you in a no-win situation and ask a professional at one point- the answer was "they are willing to do things you are not willing to do to meet their objective"- typically this means putting the child in the middle.
6- When you can, ask your son his preferences to give him the feeling that he matters and has choices. We found that BM would force her will on the kids for everything, and giving them small choices in their day to day lives, even if it's do you want an apple for lunch or an orange. Seems small, but I find my SKs sometimes have more challenges in decision making because so many things were forced on them. They still struggle to know that when we ask if they prefer one restaurant over another, we really want and value their input.

cgr68311 · September 13, 2022, 04:40:33 PM

good advice, a lot of those things resemble what I go through. Every provider interaction ex bad mouths me, tries to manipulate providers with false accusations of any kind

So I spoke to my counselor today, who I have been seeing since separation, explained what the family report said, that we are both high conflict controlling people etc. I asked how I can word for trial what I have gone through, and very eloquently he advised me to take accountability for what's said on the report about me and simply say 'in the past I felt that was my only way or option on how to deal with these situations, but been going to counseling to learn new strategies and tools, have made some improvements and want to continue to grow and be the best for my children etc'

Stepping lightly · September 14, 2022, 03:34:16 PM

Sounds like you have a wise counselor! Hopefully you will have a wise judge as well. It's important to show that you know you aren't perfect, you will sometimes mess up, but you are making the best decisions you can in an extremely stressful situation and you are willing to improve and learn.

cgr68311 · September 19, 2022, 06:40:27 PM

Update: Court is over with, now waiting for judge's order/decision. Interestingly ex/lawyer did not bad mouth me in front of the judge with their evidence as I expected. My lawyer had told me not to worry about it and focus on what we were there for, i.e. to fight over DS4 medical custody.

The family evaluator testified (which felt as a vindication after so many years of putting up with this), that even though we both have been controlling, ex has put self serving interests ahead of DS4, endangered DS4 by delaying and outright impeding medical appointments and treatment, even at times canceling appts and burdening providers with slandering documents. Evaluator also mentioned to the judge that the DV allegations by ex fit the description of cases where those allegations are up to interpretation, not sure exactly what that meant, evaluator also told the judge that we played tit for tat, meaning I had filed for the original motion, then ex filed false claim with CPS, then ex gave DS4 terrible haircut (shaved hairline) and then I called police on her, etc. Evaluator said status quo cannot remain.

When it was ex turn to testify, ex was very friendly saying just wanting peace, leaving this behind, asked the judge for 'coparenting help' but that doesn't want changes to schedule or decision making, etc. At the very end ex was asked for closing comment and said that the only reason we were there is because I have a power control issue, that after ex stopped talking to me last year, then I began to 'harass' her with all these motions, and that it shows I'm still not 'over' ex. I was shocked ex would say something like this, when evaluator had just testified I was right on taking her to court and also why medical custody was being recommended to me, because all ex does is to put DS4 needs on second place.

Stepping lightly · September 20, 2022, 08:05:29 AM

hi CGR,

Fingers crossed for you! How long until you hear the Judge's decision?

cgr68311 · September 20, 2022, 04:48:55 PM

Thanks

No word yet. Ex is already bombing me with requests to change parenting schedule when we both perfectly know judge's order may also affect schedule.

hhaw · September 20, 2022, 06:31:33 PM

cgr:

Now you know what the case worker was looking for, judged, held against you and your ex..... you have more information about documenting, reporting and holding the ex accountable going forward.

I thought the head shaving incident was more serious than the court, but then....... maybe the Judge will agree with you and me and NOT the case worker.

Sometimes things feel like they're going devastate our case or outcome, then turn out the be the very thing informing the Judge's decision.... it happened for me in my last case involving my PDs. It can happen for you.

Be ready with questions you have about holding the PD accountable and in compliance with the Judge's Order...... you're within your rights to ask your attorney to request the Judge tweak the Order if it makes sense to do so, IME. That happened for us in the last Order AND the Judge awarded us our attorney fees after many court cases where the PDs were exposed for the toxic, punitive people they were, using my children to harm me.

Consider starting a new evidence file going forward. Keeping things organized and knowing where to find everything is helpful, as you likely know by now.

I'm praying for the best possible outcome for you and your darling son.