Counselling - here we go again.

[Associate of Daniel]

uNPD exH wants to discuss our ignoring each other when in Ds15's presence.

He's now of an age when the occasions of his parents seeing each other a fewer and further between.  In fact, the next one I can think of is not for another 3 years.

I called uNPD exH's bluff and said I wouldn't discuss it unless it's in the context of child focussed counselling in separate appointments.

Blow me down, he took me up on it.  He must be desperate.  I know his uNPD wife will be.

So, here we go again.  And it's costing me a bomb in $.

I have no intention of doing sessions together with him and I have no intention of doing more than 3 sessions.  I also have zero expectations that any positive change will result from them.

However, I need to plan topics of conversations to be had with the counsellor.

1.  I'm happy to say 'hello' to uNPD ex H as I walk passed him but no conversation.  I'm not so happy to say 'hello' to his uNPD wife as she will cause a scene.

2.  He needs to allow ds15 to see me for his court ordered visits without me sending him (uNPD exH, on his insistence) photographic evidence of negative Covid tests for each visit.  Especially since we are all fully vaccinated and all restrictions have now been lifted.

3.  He needs to let ds15 just come to the meeting place at the appointed time when I pick him up, without me having to text uNPD exH and his uNPD wife letting them know that I've arrived.  It will give ds more independence and confidence.  I may not bring this up as ds is now mostly travelling by public transport to our respective abodes.

4.  He needs to allow ds to attend PT interviews with me, as ds has requested. (they happen on Ds's time with his uNPD father.)

5.  He needs to allow ds to at least trial 50/50 living arrangements, as ds has requested.

6. He needs to allow me to arrange and attend at least some of Ds's medical appointments.  In other words, he needs to follow the court orders.

7.  He needs to top bullying and manipulating me and putting ds in the middle.  This one I probably won't bring up as the counsellor is unlikely to see the reality of the situation in the short amount of time we have and uNPD exH is not going to stop anyway.

The above are in no particular order.

In fact, I don't have to bring any of them up except no. 1, as uNPD exH has only mentioned that one.  But hey, why not use the opportunity to mention a few more problems?

For those who know my story, do you have any other suggestions for topics?  Or any suggestions for how I should go about addressing the above with the counsellor?

uNPD exH has his first appointment next week.  Mine is the following week.

Oh joy.

AOD

[Rose1]

This might be progress. I don't mean getting to like smother better. Don't think that's a goal😄

However follow the court order, give ds 50 50 time and allow your parenting time to be without constant demands just as you do with him.
That might be as far as they're willing to do counselling because I suspect smother might be making demands of ex and I doubt they are in your favour
Maybe she is expecting counselling to agree with her.

Do you think this might be about ds asking for 50 50?

[Rose1]

Imo there's a reason for this and it's likely not about you.
I would be up front with the counsellor and tell her that years of experience has shown you that you cannot engage because smother doesn't appear to have the skills to be socially civil.
Therefore you intend to continue in your path of peace keeping since that seems to work best for all concerned including ds. However given his age and requests you believe it's time for those to be honoured.

I'm sure you can be more diplomatic. Couldn't think of a good term. Socially inept?😄

[Associate of Daniel]

Thanks, Rose1.

I like "inept"!  But it probably wouldn't go down too well.

I really think the underlying issue is that the upds may have realised that their time with me as supply is running short, and is now in a depleted state.

Ds15 is no longer involved in any activities outside of school that require his parents to be involved.  And there are basically no school activities that require our involvement. In other words there is now no ongoing activity that would involve his parents being in each others' presence.

His uNPD smother needs a lot of attention and adulation.  Because he has now given up his weekly sport, she no longer has the role of coach, team manager and scorer.  And she doesn't have access to me as supply.

The current court orders have ds with his uNPD father roughly 70% of the time.  Ds told me about 7 months ago that he wants to go 50/50.  It took him a few months to tell his dad.  His dad's response was such that ds has now given up on trying to get what he wants.

I understand that his father would be upset and hurt by that.  What parent wouldn't?  I know how devastated I've been since ds moved in with father nearly 3 years ago.

But uNPD exH will also be taking Ds's request as a personal attack.

So they are the underlying issues:  uNPD smother is losing her source of adulation and attention, and uNPD father feels attacked that his son is asking to spend more time with his mother (me).  They both are losing their main source of supply (me).

I can't help wondering if uNPD smother might turn up to one of my counselling sessions.  I doubt the counsellor or her staff would give my appointment details to the upds, but you never know.  uNPD smother has turned up to mediation before, full knowing that she wasn't supposed to be there.  She was told by staff to leave, thankfully.

I've been down this road before, several times.  And each time is has been the upds who have bailed, blaming me and/or the counsellor/mediator.

This time it will likely be me bailing - I can't afford anything ongoing for one thing.  However, uNPD exH may also bail first, when he realises that I refuse to meet with him in person.  That was one of his demands for "agreeing" to the counselling.  I never agreed or disagreed to meeting with him in person.  So, probably in his mind, that means that I've agreed to it.

Anyhoo...

AOD

[Rose1]

It's been a hard journey but the loss that the pds are facing is your gain.
Of course it could have been so different for them if only they had looked out for ds instead of just their own feelings and wants.

But if only is something we've all said about the pds in our life at some stage. 

They are after all functioning adults, damaged but functioning.  And subject like us all to reap what you sow.

Ds will likely continue to come Out of the FOG and start to realise that the behaviour especially of smother is out of line. It's been a long time coming.

I have a friend whose older teenaged son went and lived with his father. I talked to her about it and she said it was the most difficult thing she ever did. The boy hardly knew his father who had been absent nearly all of his life but the lure of a job and a car etc pulled him in. Some months later he was back saying he hadn't really believed his father was violent but had seen that side of him and wasn't impressed.

She said if she had not let him go the question would have always been there between them.

It's a hard lesson to learn but sometimes you just have to let them learn it. I assume smother's smothering isn't going to go well with a teenager especially if the goal is to get supply from you.
Stick to your boundaries.
Take care.

[moglow]

Ex [and oddly, the wife] don't seem to grasp: You're divorced, by choice. You aren't required to have a relationship/friendship/happy family and holidays with them. You're not and won't be the center of their world.  DS is of an age where he should be allowed more independence and ex isn't allowing that. I get it, pride and all that, but damn. DS must be so sick of it all. Guarandamntee he doesn't care if y'all ignore each other. He's probably well and truly over the entire charade and [no doubt[ sick of hearing about it all the damn time.

In all honesty, at this point in the game your only necessary contact with them is regarding DS well being and welfare and they're crushing it [not in a good way]. Far be it for me to suggest that they unclench, but really. He's not a little kid who requires helicopter parents. Within a very few short years he can bounce his happy behind anywhere he wants to go and there's not a damn thing they can do or say about it other than cut off funding. And THAT might be the best thing they could do for him!

[Associate of Daniel]

So, uNPD exH was supposed to go to his counselling session last week.  I have no idea if he got there as he came down with Covid.

My 1st session is in 2 days.

I'm thinking of writing everything out and just reading it to the counsellor. I know that's probably a bit weird, but this is costing me some serious money.  I need to get my money's worth.  It's almost like seeing my solicitor. (The counsellor is almost half the hourly rate of my solicitor who is a partner in her firm!)  I need to keep the conversation on track so as not to waste time and money.

Anyway.  I'll keep you posted.

AOD

[Associate of Daniel]

It's done - and more than likely dusted.

The counsellor let me know in the subtle (undetectable to others) ways that counsellors and lawyers and doctors do, that she gets it.  Thankfully.

However, understandably, and as expected, she was unable to give any practical suggestions that I'm not already doing.

But she confirmed for me that I should initiate a conversation with uNPD exH about ds16's request for 50/50 living arrangements and attending PT interviews with me.

Methinks it best to wait a while until this storm dies down before I do that.

I've also made it clear that I will not do joint sessions with uNPD exH.  So she and I are fully expecting uNPD exH to discontinue the counselling.

Interestingly she told me that she had clarified with him that there would not be joint sessions with the uNPD smother involved.  She said that she would not allow that under any circumstances. 

It was so nice to have her immediately see how inappropriate that would be.

Anyway.  Next steps will happen at some point.

Thanks for listening.

AOD

[Associate of Daniel]

So, wish me luck.

I've today informed (confirmed) UNPD exH that I will not be doing joint counselling with him.  I've said I'd continue with individual sessions for a couple more sessions if he was going to.

I'm now waiting for his crazy rant reaction and have given ds15 a headsup that his UNPD father is likely to ramp up.

I hope he does react with his usual rage.  Then I can show the counsellor more of what I'm dealing with.

I just hope ds is ok.

AOD

[Associate of Daniel]

So, it took uNPD exH a week to reply. 

He wants to know how I think such a discussion would work with the counsellor.

I don't know, quite frankly.

And in the meantime he's clamping down and sticking to the court orders regarding Ds's living arrangements.  It's ridiculous as he's not hurting me with this decision.  He's hurting ds and sabotaging himself. 

I very rarely ask for changes to the arrangements.  I learned many years ago not to bother as the drama that ensued wasn't worth it.  uNPD exH is the one who asks for changes.

So I'm at the point of just saying no more to the counselling and no discussion of his topic. One day soon, uNPD exH will demand a change to the arrangements anyway, so we'll be back to the normal.

I'm thinking of waiting until ds is with me during the Christmas holidays to bring up with uNPD exH the need to be flexible with the court orders, since they were written 3 years ago with the needs and understandings of our then 13 year old in mind.  His needs, responsibilities and understandings of his world are now different and are no longer reflected appropriately by the current orders.

Then again, maybe I should instead just encourage ds during the 1st half of next year, to look seriously at the living arrangements and see if he thinks they will suit his needs as he completes his education.  Hopefully he'll talk with his feet, since talking with his mouth has not worked with his father yet.

Anyhoo...

AOD

[hhaw]

AID:
What happens if ds decides to spend 50/50 time with you?

Would his PD f likely discard him OR ramp up a rage till ds complies?

I'm thinking your ds would have an ongoing shot storm if he stands up, grows up, asserts autonomy, esp regarding time with you.