exclusion

[verum71]

Most of my posts as of late have been concerning my 15 y/o daughter slowly slipping out of my life and staying with my BPDx.  My daughter participates in sports and I have had this weird thing happening as of late, where the team will be doing some type of fundraiser (it was selling fertilizer last spring - most recently a spaghetti dinner) and I am left out of the loop.  This spaghetti dinner fundraiser discussion went something like this "Hey there is a spaghetti dinner fundraiser going on in a few weeks - I was wondering if any of you would be willing to make a $10 donation - I already sold my tickets but if you would be willing to donate I would appreciate it".  This message was sent to my mom (her grandma) myself, and my fiance.  She said the dinner was in a couple of weeks - it was actually the following weekend after she sent the message.  My fiance and i talked about the text when I got home and we both kind of agreed - it was odd and it seemed like we were being left out of the loop on purpose - the message ws purposely vague.  I'm struggling a little bit with saying something to her about it and I am not even really sure what to say.

[Poison Ivy]

Do you think your daughter felt some obligation to avert a situation in which you and your ex would be in the same place at the same time? I'm not saying she should feel this obligation, but it's the first thing that sprang to my mind.

[verum71]

I'm sure that is what this is all about.   My daughter's mom (my BPDx) is very involved in this wrestling program and for the most part is always going to be there.  It seems like I have had this conversation with someone on this board in the past under similar circumstances.  My heart is being pulled in 2 different directions - I want to be be present as her Dad but I also understand that she is aware of the conflict and I don't her to feel uncomfortable.  Struggling to find a happy medium here

[Poison Ivy]

I'm sorry. Whatever the reason for the situation, it is difficult for you and your side of the family. I would feel sad and torn in your position, too.

[Kat54]

I've had similar issues with my kids. They are older now so it's better but it's easier to appease their father than endure his wrath, tantrums.

[verum71]

Kat 54 - I'm sure that is what is at the root of all of this - it's easier to appease her mom.  I have been replaying all of these old tapes in my head - if I don't show up, she is going to think that I don't care or that I don't want to be present.  I have a lot of fear that I am going to lose her.

[square]

What if you said something like, sure sweetie, I can donate, and don't worry, I won't go to the luncheon if you would rather I didn't. But I would love to take you out to a lunch just the two of us soon, what do you think?

Thereby saying "I see what is going on here," "I won't put you in a hard spot," and "I care about you and want to see you."

[verum71]

Square - thanks for the feedback.  I think the wording - how to bring it up - what to say - that is the struggle.  Your suggestions are very helpful!

It's funny that you mentioned "I can donate" - that was exactly what I did.  My daughter and I have made maple syrup together ever since she was little.  I donated a bottle of our homemade syrup and some pancake mixes in a breakfast basket that was auctioned off at the silent auction at this dinner last night.

[Stepping lightly]

Hi,

These situations are SO tough.  The kids are most likely in a tough spot.  We experience this a lot, and really have to look at the long game,  keeping a positive long term relationship.  In our case, making any kind of issue about it has never resulted in a positive outcome.  DH seems to have a knack for the perfect response,and it would likely be something like "of course, I would love to donate.  I am always here to support you, however I can.  Love ya!"  In this case, you would also be supporting her by not making her feel bad for excluding you.  It sucks, but it IS the high road and I think they do realize what is happening.

[verum71]

Stepping Lightly - I agree that it will probably be a matter of the "long game".  My oldest son figured it out as he got older - him and I have a very solid relationship today.  I also feel like it will probably be a matter of time before something implodes and my daughter decides that she has had enough over at her mom's. 

[verum71]

It was a tough day today - my daughter was at a wrestling event and during the whole time I was there she maybe said 5 or 10 words to me when I said hi to her when i got there - didn't say anything to me afterwards or come over to talk to me at all.  On my car ride home I was kind of stuck in the "why am I even there" mode.  It was a mentally exhausting day.  This wrestling stuff is a  big part of what she does over at her mom's (my BPDx) and mom is always there. 

[Associate of Daniel]

I hear you, Verum.  And I can almost literally see you at your daughter's game.  Because I was you for so many years.

I don't remember how old your daughter is.  I know that when my ds was a lot younger - about 7 through to maybe 13 - he wouldn't interact with me at his games.  He'd literally push me away if I tried to talk to him.  He'd ignore me if our eyes met and I waved or gave him a thumbs up.

I understood that it was him trying to keep the peace.  Trying to stay in the good books of his uNPD father and uNPD smother.  He knew that they didn't want him to have a positive relationship with me.

As he grew older, it also became partly that he, like all kids, thought he'd look more cool to his mates if he didn't interact with me.

But when he was I think about 14, he started to relax more and say "Hi" etc.. It was never comfortable because of the presence of the uNPDs.  And in order to protect myself from the uNPDs, I would always arrive just as the game started and leave as soon as it finished, with a quick "Hi" and "Congrats and Bye" to my boy as we passed each other.

I understand the whole "why am I even here" thing.  But I also knew that ds secretly appreciated me being there and that he will remember my efforts as he gets older.  I also just really enjoyed watching him play and interact with his mates.

I always had such dread in the lead up and during the game, wondering if his uNPD smother would make another scene.  In that sense I'm really glad that ds16 has now finished playing his weekly sport.  But sad that he is growing up so fast.

So why do we even do it?  A:  because we put ourselves through fire for the sake of our kids.  And we would never not.  Or at least, we find ways to go through the fire as safely as possible.

I will admit there were a few days towards the end of ds16s weekly game days when I chickened out of going.  I'd drive him to the game and give the excuse of work to sit in the car instead of attending the game.  I didn't lie.  I brought work along with me to do in the car.  I hated opting out but there were times that I just couldn't armour myself enough to face the uNPDs.

AOD

[Stepping lightly]

Hi Verum,

Unfortunately, I think this is a common occurance for many of us here.  My DH and I have experienced the same thing.   After years of dealing with this, DSS said something to the effect of " Mom expects us to sit with her and there are consequences if we don't". 

Keep showing up- the kids have to deal with the PD on their own on a daily basis, and they need to be able to do that in a way that keeps them "safe".  We may not like it, we may not understand it, the only thing we can do is love them and support them.  They do appreciate it- they just can't say it yet.  You are the parent that will always be there, the PD requires them to sacrifice for her attention and we certainly don't want to compete with her behaviors .  FInd peace in being the solid, reliable, forgiving, loving parent.

I wrote a post this summer when DSD17 rejected us from visiting her in the hospital.  It was AWFUL.  We weren't getting updates, we couldn't see her, DH and I literally cried every single day it was SO agonizing.  She was in the PICU for days before BM made us aware.  There was a parade of family and friends going in to see her, but she told her own father "I am just too tired for visitors".  It hurt- it was terrifying.  But- we never said a word.  She had no choice- BM wouldn't leave her side and there were expectations of her.  But when it was over, and we FINALLY got to see her after a month- we just loved her, zero consequences.   Weirdly- I think our relationship is stronger.  Every once in awhile it's mentioned about someone that visited her, and it's like a knife to the heart....but we don't say anything.  It's not her fault.  I believe she understands the sacrifice and is thankful (and she has said as much in the past).

Chin up- keep showing up, stay strong- and always respond with love and acceptance.  Be the safe landing space when your daughter needs to come in from the PD storm.

[Latchkey]

HI verum71,
You've gotten great advice here. I'll just add that when the communication of details is left to the child/teen it's often vague regardless of the situation and way it is communicated. I have older adult DDs in their 20's now and unless I was getting information direct from the school it usually was not communicated well. Even now, my kids often tell me things at the last minute like "hey mom, I'm going on vacation next week" or "I told my sister and I thought i told you but I'm coming over tonight for dinner"
I know with a PD parent that should be responsible it only complicates things.
My best advice would be to follow the team on whatever social media or website or scan  the school calendar for accurate information.

[Associate of Daniel]

Following on from Latchkey.  Yes.  Make sure your name and contact details are on the team's files and that you are on the list of people receiving info straight from the team.  Same with school and Medicos.

I found on a few occasions that my name had (unbeknownst to me) been removed at the UNPDs' request. Or that they had provided the organisation with incorrect contact details for me.

It's mind boggling the games the play.

AOD

[verum71]

Associate of Daniel - uggghh!  I have been there - went to to my son's school to talk with the nurse and she started acting strange and left the room.  An administrator came in and started asking me questions.  I was left off of the contact info paperwork at school and the administrator was trying to decide if the nurse should give me any info.  I had to bring in a copy of our stipulated order to have on file at school.   

Latchkey - The wrestling team uses a communication app that has been extremely helpful to get the exact info that I need to be present - it's really been a godsend.

Lastly - Stepping Lightly - that whole event at the hospital would have crushed me - I can't even imagine how difficult that must have been.  My daughter had significant surgery - replaced a a constricted artery on her kidney - several years ago and she was hospitalized for a period of time.  I did go to visit her but her mom was there the entire time and it was like I was collectively ignored.  I can remember going to a movie event at the hospital  during her stay - it was a new release Star Wars movie and her and I have always been huge fans of the movies.  She didn't sit with me, didn't really look at me or acknowledge that i was there.  When I walked out of the hospital and got to my car, I called my parents and I was bawling - it sucked. 

I am trying to "FInd peace in being the solid, reliable, forgiving, loving parent."  It's very hard to do.  She did come with me to annual Christmas potluck that she has been going to with me ever since she was little - we had a great time.