Well, she finally got on my last nerve.

[PinkFreud]

I haven't posted in a few months, but she (BPD mom) just got on my very last nerve! I haven't seen her in well over a year and a half. Her choice, not mine, I was blindsided by the betrayal, but not totally surprised, either.

Anyway, she sent me a "sweet" Valentine's card, as usual addressed only to me, ignoring my DH who did so much to help her, my dad, and other deceased family members. So I ignored it.

Yesterday, DH comes in with the mail, and for the first time since she kicked us to the curb, lo and behold, there's an Easter card addressed to both of us! He wanted to toss in the round file, but I was curious. Did she really mean to send us both Easter greetings, or was she sending us both a FU? Who knows?

It was a lovely religious card, quoting John 3:16, signed Love, Mother. Now y'all have to understand that Miss Mother, being from the South, and a good Southern Baptist, thinks that she is a pristine Christian, aka her sh*t don't stink, and she's totally innocent of anything.

After much thought tonight, I decided that I should probably send her an Easter gift, so I did. Thank you Amazon! I sent her a sterling silver medallion of Saint Jerome Emiliani, who is the patron saint of orphans and those who are abandoned. I also included a gift message explaining who St. Jerome was, and how I thought it was perfect for us! Southern polite snark at it's best!

What do y'all think? Did I do too much? Seriously!

[Call Me Cordelia]

 

I'm sorry that your mother got to you so much. My mother would send each family member Hallmark cards for every holiday and birthday. With six in our family, that's a lot of cards. We would trash them unopened, but I would still get very angry. It got so bad that I had to let DH get the mail and purge them without telling me. I definitely empathize with your anger at her playing the saintly wronged mother.

I do think sending that "gift" is a bad idea. Cleverly hilarious, in a way, but cruel and really not funny at all. You're sinking to her level. Not to mention fueling her fire... if your mother has a Cluster B no way will she take the hint. It will be all your fault and you're inviting further retaliation. Is there time to cancel the order?

[all4peace]

I think it's really understandable why you feel the way you do, and also meanly funny to send that gift, but I agree with Cordelia on canceling it if possible. These negative bonds keep us negatively attached to another. It keeps us stuck and stunted, unable to grow and transform. I so, so, so understand the urge to lash out. But sometimes it's best to share the urge with a friend, or on this forum, but not actually act it out in real life. Hugs. This stuff is really hard.

[moglow]

After much thought tonight, I decided that I should probably send her an Easter gift, so I did. Thank you Amazon! I sent her a sterling silver medallion of Saint Jerome Emiliani, who is the patron saint of orphans and those who are abandoned. I also included a gift message explaining who St. Jerome was, and how I thought it was perfect for us! Southern polite snark at it's best!

Please tell me you're kidding, that you just thought about it but didn't actually send. Is it really necessary that we poke the badgers in such a manner? A "good Southern Baptist" would take offense at being sent a saint's medal, never mind one such as you suggest. Whatever the history, I have to wonder what your goal is here.

Being a Southerner myself, I was always taught that if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all. Or, better to be thought a fool and remain silent than open your/my mouth and remove all doubt.

I'm sorry but like the fellow members above, I heartily disagree with this one and hope you will reconsider.

[illogical]

Hi PinkFreud,

It may seem like we are "piling on" here, but really we are a support forum and we're trying to spare you pain.

My NM would push and push and there were several times I would get "down in the ditch" with her.  I remember one time in particular where she goaded me to have a portrait made.  "Why don't you have a portrait made?" and on and on and on until I basically snapped.  I decided that for a Christmas present, I would present her with an 18" x 24" portrait of moi.  And I did.  And it was like, on my end, "Okay, so here's your effing portrait and hang it up and so there!"

So I gave it to her and she got really quiet and the next time I was at her house she had it hanging in a back bedroom.  I knew I had "gotten her goat" so to speak.  Several years later she tried to give it back to me but I told her "No, I want you to keep it."

While I felt that I had shut her up on the portrait idea, I never really felt satisfied.  She was never going to really understand my "joke" and she was still going to live in her world (of her own creation) and I would live in mine-- the two worlds never to coincide or interact.

That's what I see here with your mother.  I agree with Cordelia that your mom won't ever really "get it" or get the joke.  She will totally be insulted by it and possibly rage or plot to "get you".  I am a converted Catholic and my mother was a Baptist.  I never told her that I converted to Catholicism, as I knew it would not go over well.

The best thing you can do, IMHO, is to live your life being true to yourself and not "get down in the ditch" and play their games.  They will "win" every time.  You won't be able to convince them of your point of view.  So if you are NC or VLC, just ignore their overtures and go your own way.  You can vault yourself out of the ditch by living your own life and not paying much attention to their antics.  Take care!

[biggerfish]

Hi PinkFreud. I think it's okay to laugh at yourself. It's okay that you responded the way you did. It probably felt good. And it was quite creative, I might add.

But for the sake of your own mental health and happiness, you might want to consider ceasng any more engaging with her. There are better uses for your excellent sense of humor and creativity. I'm cheering you on! 

[illogical]

I just re-read my post and I did not explain my "joke" very well.  It sounds like I gave NM what she asked for, so what's the "joke"?

What she wanted was for me to go to a professional photographer and have a portrait taken in a studio and give her a 5x7 or 8x10 that she could put alongside half a dozen or so photos of GC brother and compare them and, of course, I would be found wanting.

So after she bugged me to no end about having one made, I gave her a very large-- 18x24-- framed and matted professional photo that she couldn't possibly hide in a bookcase or "obscure" with photos of GC brother.  She ended up hanging it in a back bedroom.  She really didn't want, or know what to do with, a very large portrait of me.  So there she was stuck with something she had asked for but didn't really want.  Moral being "be careful what you wish for".  It so reminded me of your "gift" to your mom.

Anyway, I agree with biggerfish that your talents could better be spent on people who appreciate the creative and humourous you!

[Call Me Cordelia]

 

Your forum name is quite clever too, PinkFreud. 

[xredshoesx]

my MIL sent a random, unsolicited picture of corn to my BIL before xmas for no reason.  CORN.  so for whatever reasons DH and his sibs all got his mom corn stuff for gifts.  it was funny not funny b/c she takes XMAS very seriously and i stayed out of it b/c as the current black sheep (because i told her she wasn't living with me/dh and we were not subsidizing her early retirement).

that being said, we all have our moments with our PD/ uPD in our lives.  however, please do be reminded of the forum guidelines (from the dealing with anger section)

You are encouraged to use your own good sense along with local law enforcement and legal jurisdictions to protect yourself from abusive situations where applicable and discuss your situation with others.  However, do not use Out of the FOG as a platform for discussing or advocating any type of revenge, or ways to harass, hurt, sabotage or get even with people who suffer from personality disorders or whom you feel may have hurt you. 

[broken]

I'm sorry, but I think it is unfair to shame PinkFreud for her gift to her NM.  As adult children of narcissists, haven't we all been dealt enough guilt?

In my FOO, ridicule was a daily routine, and passive aggressive insults were a common form of communication. Even now, I hear my NM and GC Nbro find amusement in the suffering of others.  This is the stuff I was raised with.  I did eventually teach myself compassion toward others, but I also made mistakes along the way.  PDs tend to hold their children to a higher standard than they hold themselves, yet what good examples do they set?

I agree with the comments that the gift provides a negative bond with her abuser, and that PinkFreud's time and talents could be spent toward people who truly love and care for her rather than her NPD.  But I am frankly appalled at the harsher responses.  Calling this a platform for revenge, or sabotage?  Seriously?

Calling her a fool, and saying "If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all"? There's some irony!

Those comments are not the way a fellow abuse victim should be treated for a moment of bad judgement.

PinkFreud, you asked if you went too far, and you already know the answer.  That is the difference between us and our abusers.  They dish it out and never think twice about whether they went too far.  Still, we are blessed to have been given a conscience, and the ability to feel empathy. 

[xredshoesx]

i'm gonna repeat the guideline again for the people in the back.

You are encouraged to use your own good sense along with local law enforcement and legal jurisdictions to protect yourself from abusive situations where applicable and discuss your situation with others. However, do not use Out of the FOG as a platform for discussing or advocating any type of revenge, or ways to harass, hurt, sabotage or get even with people who suffer from personality disorders or whom you feel may have hurt you.

[moglow]

My sincere apologies - I didn't intend my southernisms to being taken literally and am rather surprised I was. I wasn't calling PinkFreud or anyone else a fool, and I won't. I was trying to use euphemisms to point out that it's better to let mom think and be who she is than to lower ourselves down into her games.

I disagreed with your choice, PinkFreud, because it felt petty and spiteful. I get it and Lord knows my mind has taken me similar places in the past, but it still seemed unworthy of you. I saw the potential fallout and hope that didn't happen to you. Mine would see that as a paid ticket for the train straight to the worst parts of her personality, and it would be ON. I disagreed with your choice and chose to say so rather than cheer it on while cringing inside. Support comes in many forms - no one shamed or ridiculed you, looks like a few of us felt it was simply not a good idea and spoke up.

Sometimes it really is better to just say nothing, and just agree to disagree. Thank you for the object lesson.

[broken]

Thanks Moglow, I also thought she used poor judgment here.  It was a mistake, but hey, with our dysfunctional upbringings that is bound to happen, right? 

However, I suppose I'm the one "in the back" as I stood up to the excessive reaction that PinkFreud's poor choice was (paraphrased) an act of 'sabotage, revenge, hurt or harassment.'  I'm used to passive-aggressive digs as a truth-telling scapegoat, but my sense of empathy has me concerned that PinkFreud will be further shamed and guilted by these harsh words, when she had already questioned herself for "going too far." 

No need to lecture or block me for caring.  I'll give up my place "in the back" and go away on my own.

[moglow]

No need for shame or guilt here, broken (et al). Lord knows we have had and done enough of that to ourselves.

My concern is for all - did I/we do or say the right thing? Does it need clarification? I could absolutely have said it better, and in a face to face conversation, would have immediately regrouped and clarified.

Even having grown up in the house of an uber accusatory, hypervigilant, always seeking the worst parent, I try to look for the bright side of the coin. I try to not assume "motives" but rather find a softer path for myself and others. That doesn't mean I excuse or rationalize deliberate harm - I try rather to overlook it and not give it head space that it doesn't deserve.
It's a process. 

[biggerfish]

I disagreed with your choice, PinkFreud, because it felt petty and spiteful.

This is no way to treat anyone here looking for help. It is unsupportive, and it doesn't offer the benefit of the doubt. A little kindness is better than piling on the shaming. We are all here to get out from under shaming. I would like to see this thread reviewed.

[moglow]

From PinkFreud's post:

What do y'all think? Did I do too much? Seriously!

I don't know how much more clear I can be. The crux of this for me: I try to put the shoe on the other foot and see how it feels. Say my mother sent me a saint's medal, I wouldn't have a problem with it one way or the other. (I'm not Catholic but have worn my Daddy's St Christopher since his funeral 20+ years ago. It drives her bonkers, but it's not and never was about her. It's about and for me, honoring my Daddy's memory.) If she sent one and described it to me as the patron saint of orphans and those who are abandoned, I'd take it as intended. I've felt like an orphan and abandoned by her most of my life, so it would actually fit.

For me to send that to her would be a dual slap in the face, and I know it. It would have been meant that way, tongue in cheek joke or not. It's lowering mysekf to the way she's treated me, and I don't want that. Neither do I want it for any of you - I think we all deserve better than we've been given.

When we ask questions here, we're not always going to get agreement with our choices, none of us are. Being supportive doesn't mean walking in lock step - it means being there with one another whether we agree or not. It means having respect enough for each other to speak up when we disagree. It means holding each other up and pulling each other up when things go sideways.

No one is being shamed here. A member asked what we thought, and we answered. I didn't like how it made me feel. There's no shame in that for anyone.

[There's a "report to moderator" link at the bottom of every post. The moderators and admin receive and discuss every one, and take action as appropriate. That action is strictly between the member who posted and the moderation team - so no shame there either.]

[illogical]

What I read from xredshoesx post is that it is the forum policy not to discuss any ways to hurt people who suffer from PD.

I get that.  While it is tempting to go "tit for tat", it is not productive in the long run.  As I stated in my post, I went "tit for tat" and it got me nowhere.  My NM was not going to "get the joke" and I was sinking to her level by trying to go head to head with her.

That said, while some comments on this thread were rather blunt and even harsh, I did not sense that anyone was encouraging revenge or ways to harass PinkFreud's mother. 

Sometimes I think you just come to the end of your rope and you lash out.  PinkFreud,IMHO, did that, but not in a horrible way.  Members saw the response as ranging from humourous to cruel, but I don't think anyone on this board was cheering on or advocating "getting revenge" on Pink Freud's mother.  I also don't think PinkFreud was sincerely advocating revenge, just a bit of snark because her mother had gotten on her last nerve.

...When we ask questions here, we're not always going to get agreement with our choices, none of us are. Being supportive doesn't mean walking in lock step - it means being there with one another whether we agree or not. It means having respect enough for each other to speak up when we disagree. It means holding each other up and pulling each other up when things go sideways.

Absolutely.   

[Spring Butterfly]

Please everyone, first know this thread was reported and reviewed by the entire moderating team almost immediately.

What xredshoesx did here is what the moderating team sometimes does to try to keep a thread on track and productive and the comments were directed to ALL and not anyone in particular:

i'm gonna repeat the guideline again for the people (plural) in the back.

You are encouraged to use your own good sense along with local law enforcement and legal jurisdictions to protect yourself from abusive situations where applicable and discuss your situation with others. However, do not use Out of the FOG as a platform for discussing or advocating any type of revenge, or ways to harass, hurt, sabotage or get even with people who suffer from personality disorders or whom you feel may have hurt you.

Those are the guidelines and on that basis the entire thread could have been pulled but we felt the discussion was perhaps beneficial. No shame was intended.


However now the thread had degraded to debating the morals of others in the thread and losing focus on the opening poster, who by the way hasn't been back to even see this post.

Support here often means redirecting others to rethink their actions. It's what we do All. The. Time. We share experiences, good, bad and ugly which is all everyone here had done. Support here on Out of the FOG often is not in the form of "good for you" and that's ok.

Please let's focus on the opening poster - PinkFreud. This post may be locked or removed depending on the outcome of team discussion but I took it on myself to step in with a post to try to redirect in the meantime. Hopefully it was a good thing to do but I'm not sure.

[WomanInterrupted]

Is it okay to add my two cents?   

I know PinkFreud hasn't posted since the original post,  but to me, this doesn't smack of revenge - just a little jab, like when you get SO sick of various PDs giving you gifts that don't fit, are obviously used, came from the dollar store, aren't age appropriate for your kids, or are those things they *insist* you like, when you really don't, that you start buying gifts of the same nature, because you just don't CARE - and you know  they may not like them.

I'm guilty of it, and never felt a lick of remorse - for some reason, my PD IL's *hated* Hickory Farms and thought it beneath them.  Low class!  PLEBEAN!   

I have NO idea why cheese, cheese balls, crackers and meat in tube form are any of those things - but we were sick of getting gifts we didn't like, want or were veiled insults, so we thought hey?  If they hate it so much that they can't stop talking about it, why not?   

That's what they got, every Christmas, after we got sick of them insulting the gifts we bought for them, and they insisted we weren't effusive enough about the gifts they gave us.

You want to act like that?  You get Hickory Farms - and get to listen  to everybody asking you to serve it up!   

Yes, the IL's may have thought it was beneath them, but nobody else did.  Good eats is good eats and it also had the bonus of filling everybody up  before dinner, because my MIL is among the *worst* cooks on the planet.   

Was that revenge?  I don't think so.  Maybe a tweak on the nose, or a slight drubbing - one of those passive-aggressive things that says, "I am on to you but summer sausage!  YAY!"   

Was anybody harmed?

No, since people could actually eat before the "meal" was served, food poisoning and diarrhea became a thing of the past - as well as cheap champagne-induced headaches, since Christmas lasted all day, and they never put out any *snacks* - even for the kids!  Not even a single cookie.   

Were they offended?

Absolutely - but nobody cared, because we were all ravenous by that time and it was the ONE reliable food source!   

It's  a *grey area.* 

PinkFreud's mom got a gift she may not understand, and it made PinkFreud happy to be cheeky.

It made us happy to be cheeky with the Hickory Farms, knowing the only thing that was hurt  was my IL's sense of entitlement and grandeur, watching the rest of us happily share  food they wouldn't touch, as  they looked down their noses at us.   

Sometimes we only "win" tiny battles, that may seem inconsequential - but to us, it feels like we conquered Everest.

We're all different - and it isn't a one-size-fits-all process.  We all have our moments - but we don't consider them low points, because we  know our individual PDs better than anybody else, and sometimes, that means giving dud gifts, knowing they're dud gifts -  or will be disliked.

When Christmas rolls around, I sometimes find myself posting about the Hickory Farms and my ILs -  sometimes posters think it's a wonderful idea for people who don't care  about us, and can't be arsed  (and it's the easiest option).  They sometimes offer up other mail-order food options, and order them, knowing it's not the gift their PD wanted, but the one they can live with.

I really don't see the difference.   

   

[NotFooled]

PinkFreud     

I don't think it was too much but doubtful she will get what the gift means.  My OCPDMIL is a strict southern baptist and very ignorant of other faiths, religious, popular culture and life in general.

One time I posted on my FB page I was going to see the play the book of mormon.  She freaked out on DH believing I was going to join the Mormon church