Dissociation - A second lightbulb moment

[Levi10]

When my world pretty much fell apart 6 years ago, it was suggested to me by a family member to research NPD.  That led me to this place and to a lot of support at the time which helped me get through one of the hardest years of my life.  Since then I have always been bothered by part of the description of the disorder.  According to the information I had read one had to fit 5 of the 9 indicators to be diagnosed.  I could fit 5 in my mind to the w, but the grandiose self image part always made me question it.  (I am not getting hung up on trying to diagnose her.  I know that will never happen, nor am I qualified to do so.)

Recently while reading here during one of the very very low days this was bothering me again and I started reading through the other list of PDs in the same category of NPD.  While reading through BPD, number 9 on the list is: "Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms."  What is "dissociative symptoms" I wondered to myself.  I thought I knew what that meant, but I did not.  I was reading through common traits further down and there it was again- Dissociation.  I clicked on it and read further- wow. 

I have been dealing with this for the last 21 years!  I had no way to name it.  Honestly, her family has a terrible history of dementia and at one point I was researching early onset dementia (were in our late 30s), due to her being completely out of line with reality at times.  There are major life events that she remembers in completely distorted ways.  Things that never happened and things that she remembers that happened totally different than reality.  Some things that happened she doesn't remember at all.  For years I thought it was either lying or some sort of dementia. 

Once again I have that feeling of relief and doom at the same time.  I can once again make more sense of her behavior, but have to face the facts that this is just going to go on and on, and there is really nothing I can do about it. 

In reality BPD traits make much more sense now.  Back then I was not in the mental area myself to really dig deep enough to understand NPD, BPD, and other PDs as I am these days.  Thank God for keeping me reading and researching for all these years.   

[moglow]

Holy shit. I've never really looked at or thought about the whole dissociative aspect of BPD until right now. This minute. It's been right there in front of me all this time as one of the defining factors.  Sorry, in the throes of trying to make sense of this one in my own family, and it just blindsided me.


I get that feeling a sense of relief and doom - both that there's an "answer" and yet no answer/resolution at that same time. Try and remember none of that is your stuff. You may need to work a bit harder on your boundaries and protecting yourself, but there's truly no need to try and take that on as yours to somehow fix. I'm sure you're well aware by now you can't do that for her.

[Levi10]

user- that makes a lot of sense.  I know there will never be a real diagnosis with her, so does it really matter?  I guess just for my own benefit I can understand better what is going on.  There is so much in the description that when I read it its like looking back on my own past.  "People who dissociate sometimes believe feelings over facts."  That is like a perfect description of how the majority of the episodes start.  Facts don't matter, just the feelings.

Moglow- I felt the same way when I read that the other day.  I've read the word dozens of times but never really looked at the meaning.  I tried for years to be the fixer before I knew about PD.  Thats my natural go to and felt like just going around in circles endlessly.  Nothing was rational, nothing made sense.   Fortunately I've learned how to step back and let her go in her own circles and get dizzy until one day its just done and back to "normal".  Somehow when I stopped trying to fix the problems she has decided exist, the problems started to go away much faster.  Weird. 

[moglow]

Ours has become rather more obvious recently, flat out cold blooded denial of events even when confirmed and confronted by multiple sources. She decided that didn't happen so it didn't, regardless of what was put before her. Since she decided it didn't happen she wasn't responsible for any apology or our responses to it. Unreal. I'd even said outright it's like she dissociates but had never made that connection with the BPD criteria.

Mind Blown.

[Cat of the Canals]

I can definitely relate to the dissociation symptoms in a uPDw. I'm not sure if this is dissociation or something else, but my uPDw completely loses touch with reality when she's in one of her PD rage "episodes" (accusing me of things that are so obviously not true), and then she completely forgets those conversations later like they never happened. Is that Dissociation? I dunno.

I've wondered this about my PDmom and PDmil. So far I've been unable to pinpoint whether they have a purposefully "selective memory" or if it's a genuine lack of memory caused by dissociation. The fact that there's often a period of lovebombing afterward leads me to believe they are conscious of some element of their bad behavior, but maybe the specifics are hazy?

[afro-pope]

I have considered myself to know slightly above-average amounts about Cluster B personality disorders than the average person for quite a while now.

This is the first I've heard about the "Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms" and psychotic episodes, even though sure enough that's criteria 9 in the DSM. I'm now going down a huge rabbit hole and a bunch of stuff from my last relationship that made me go "boy, that's weird, wonder what that was about" since it didn't fit my understanding of BPD is suddenly falling into place.

This is also a huge lightbulb moment for me. I feel like I just got hit by a truck (positively).

[1footouttadefog]

BPD and NPD are both Cluster B if I remember correctly, so there would be alot of overlap. 

Feelings as facts can be a big part of either. 

There are also variations of Narcs that are not grandiose.  Covert Narcs for example. 

[Breadroll]

Ex npdh had this - either full blown strange talking ( which was denied later) or belief that he was in places he wasn't ( or the reverse). It was confusing, scary ( as involved scary thinking) and initially I thought he was doing it deliberately- but in retrospect a feature of condition.
It's deeply disturbing to be on the receiving end - really glad this forum exists to help . Take care






 

[SaddleBagger]

I can relate to this. There were a lot of incidents that just never happened as far as my exW was concerned. I took it as denial rather than an actual memory glitch as it was only related to incidents of her behaving poorly. If it were anything else she was usually very sharp. Howver in the last few years we were married I did start to notice her becoming uncharacteristically disorganized and forgetful. There was increased substance use sooo, probably more related to that? 

[Breadroll]

Some instances with xnpdh -he angrily asserted that he had been present somewhere with kids and myself. When gently questioned ( I was still deep in fog and worried about his mental state)- he agreed he had not been present, or involved in any way-  but then -in an agitated way- would not drop the assertion that he was.  It was so strange. He then used s sing sing voice to say something along the lines of " take the good and the bad ".   There were other instances of very scary talk and sinister looks in my direction - if he heard a news story related to domestic violence tragedy. He would then deny ( hours later) having said " scary stuff" and said if was just " sleep talking".

I spent such s huge amount of energy keeping things calm and safe- still unsure how it could have been done any differently- and so glad to be out.

This person presented as an articulate successful balanced person to the outside world- still does.

[xredshoesx]

i've also always wondered if my mother's campaigns to re-write history were really disassociation.  thought provoking thread!