Hmmm not sure about my brother now

[Andeza]

Reminds me of training toddlers honestly... My three year old nephew has to be told things like "if you whine, the answer is definitely no," or my favorite "if you pitch a fit, we're definitely not getting that /going there and we will leave immediately." We teach three year old children how to have grace to accept things they don't like, what the heck happened with our pd people? 

[nanotech]

Yes looks like they were both gutted to lose the Facebook access. 

Facebook is a theme park to narcissists and their helpers.

I'd had enough too about 2 and a half years ago. Blocked Nsis and her daughter, my niece, as well as my Nbrother.

They often tried to guilt trip, shame, taunt and tease me via Facebook.

They also idealised our family in sickly sweet terms,( massive Ntrait)  and would post copious magical thinking about what a wonderful family we were and how very close we all are.

They would literally write those words straight after posting rather nasty and/or  passive aggressive comments under a photo or status I had posted.

I don't miss it one bit.

I don't do messenger group chats with them either. 
Both times I was calm and cool and loving and said I was just going to do less on social media. I reminded them of my phone number and email address. 
Major sulks.
They all disliked this move SO much that for a  while they would find excuses to add me in to convos ( 'we thought you would want this news about dad').

I just politely said no to discussing anything on messenger, then left the chat. Before I left,  I said to please text me  or email, or hey, (here's a crazy idea) phone me!
( none of them ever  phone me since I've stopped being codependent and enmeshed and/ or flying monkey for them).
Nope. But they liked to keep  the group chat  thing,  I think because of the mobbing element.
If I wasn't going to codepend any more, at least they could take the p... that way, all tied up in a big red bow, under a label of love. Hey it's family talking together folks!

Eventually they stopped re-adding me, as I just quietly left the group each time.

Adding me when I'd told them not add me was so rude. It was like,

" You HAVE to be part of our glorious sibling chat, whether you like it or not!"

Three of the four are blocked now anyway, so they can longer add me in.

I'm aware that the not -phoning me is meant to be a punishment for stepping out of the narc dance.
It's actually a relief , not a punishment, though I inexplicably missed Nsis' voice for a while.
A mixture of nostalgia for our shared history, my skewed addiction to the dysfunction, and  a stupid longing to go back to the pretence that we were and are a real family.

It. Wears. Off.

And they clearly don't miss hearing MY voice.

[p123]

Yep facebook can be a nightmare. Dad doesnt understand it all but quickly worked out how he could use it to his advantage by getting brother to contact me using it. Now brother it seems thinks he can use it guilt me in public. Not happening.

Brothers approach to facebook is legendary. You get posts between him and his wife saying how wonderful each one is etc one day. Next day they're calling each other names (inc really strong swear words) in public on there.

[nanotech]

Crikey.  Yes it's the public shaming- they love to try to do it.

Gaslighting too. 

I posted a rare pic of my mum carrying me on her hip- I was about 18 months or two.
A retro pic.
It's not something I do often.
But It was a nice pic of a mum and baby daughter.
My niece soon commented underneath  how she looked at the pic and ' just gasped'
because she ' could have sworn it was  'David !' ( name changed of GCNbro)
In the photo I  had long hair, had on a dress and had hairslides in my hair.
I found myself wanting to point out the dress, the hair accessories, that it couldn't be my brother. Yet  why should I?
She kept on insisting that as far as she was concerned,  it WAS him! She was oddly stubborn,  almost accusing me of being in the wrong about my own image.

This is the niece who insisted that she should replace younger sister in the mourners' car at my mums funeral, because:
' I was around grannie a lot more than her at the end of grannie's life. '
Sigh

[p123]

I've heard it all from my brother now.

At the moment, he sends his wife to visit my Dad once a week. Shes self-employed but pretty much never works because she can't be bothered. She went through a phase of wanting to be Dads carer until she found out the money you get from the government was poor.

Anyway hes told Dad shes working a lot more now because they need the money. (No shes not shes "lunching" pretty much everyday - facebook never lies!) So she can't visit as much.

Hes told Dad that I need to step up more and so does my wife! What!!!! I cannot believe it. It would be World War 3, 4, and 5 if I told my wife my brother said. Dad has treated my wife like crap and yet brother think she should drive 50 miles round trip on her day off to help Dad. OMG. Never in a million years.

Of course, hes totally disregarded the fact that shes ill (sometimes walks with a stick due to fibromyalgia). Her days off she needs or she wouldnt be able to work. Of course, the face that we've got young children and a teen with autism to deal with also seems not to matter. Or the fact he lives 5 mins from Dad and we live 30 mins+.

100% sure this "need the money" is because florence nightingale (brother wife) is now bored with the visits and brother has decided he'd like to do less and is on a mission to get me to do more. Honestly, you could not make it up.

Not happening! Apparently hes planning to ring me.....

Annoyed that hes dragged Dad in to this. Of course, Dad is now major waifibg "if no-one helps me I'll have to go into a home".

[nanotech]

Ah yes the threat of the dreaded life -changing  phone call, I know it well!
Except it's an empty threat.
Stick to your guns  and keep repeating that helping out more 'isn't going to work out' for you. Don't elaborate just keep repeating that then
You can say :
"Well if you've got to go into a home dad, then ok we will help you to sort that out. "

' home' doesn't equate with 'death'.

You can say , 'Maybe it would be for the best.
You will have the help you need right there.'

Or instead, about a bit of home -help for him,  from social services or private paid?
You could make that suggestion too.
Good luck. 50 mile round trip isn't going to happen.

[p123]

Ah yes the threat of the dreaded life -changing  phone call, I know it well!
Except it's an empty threat.
Stick to your guns  and keep repeating that helping out more 'isn't going to work out' for you. Don't elaborate just keep repeating that then
You can say :
"Well if you've got to go into a home dad, then ok we will help you to sort that out. "

' home' doesn't equate with 'death'.

You can say , 'Maybe it would be for the best.
You will have the help you need right there.'

Or instead, about a bit of home -help for him,  from social services or private paid?
You could make that suggestion too.
Good luck. 50 mile round trip isn't going to happen.

Oh yes thats Dads ultimate "I'll have to go into a home then".

In reality there is NOTHING  WRONG with him at all. His health is fine. He can look after himself perfectly well. All that is missing is that there are not enough people running around for his liking.

So he listed a few things:

1. Can't get shopping.....
Umm Dad you get meals on wheels 5 days out of 7 and choose not to bother for the other 2. You've got a freezer full of food. I've offered to sort home delivery but you've refused.

2. Knees are bad. I can't get around.
You've got a stair lift, adapted shower. I've offered to get carers in the morning but you've refused.

3. Yes but I'm in pain.
You choose NOT to listen to the doctor about the dose of tablets you take. Instead you listen to your friends. What do you want me to do? And anyway, where you live doesn't matter.

4. I can't get out like I used to and no-one takes me. Its too hard to take cover off mobility scooter.
I've offered to get a drive in cover for you and arrange an outside plug socket. Both of which you decided you didn't want to spend money. I've invited you to MANY events and you've declined because you can't be bothered.

So why do you need to go into a home Dad?

No answer.

[nanotech]

He really doesn't want you to solve these things.
He just wants you and your family to do nothing else but serve him for the rest of his life.
The  harsh, incessant punishment, for their encroaching old age. 
I think they just don't want old age and all that comes with it.
They refuse to accept it. Yet they have no choice.
So they blame us. And we must make it up to them by dropping our own lives.
They wouldn't have done this, but we are expected to do this without their even asking.
We are expected to remove their pain!  It's not the pain that bothers him, it's just outrageous to him that he has to have it. 
He can't say that. They know old people feel pain. But I think it's what they want to say. They want to rage against the increasing fallibility of their bodies. ( If they accepted it they would feel less pain). But that would be ridiculous to others.  So they rage against us instead.

Moving from prime of life to elderly, it seems that they choose their children's complete  servitude to their needs,  as some sort of weird consolation prize.

They suffer, so we must suffer more.
They criticise; we must apologise.
They bleat and cry; we must run and fix.
They demand; we must always serve.
They ask ; we must never say no. Ever
We must sacrifice. We must sacrifice. 
We must do all this gladly.
No one else will do.
They must come first.

They are at end of life; so we must give up our lives.


 







It has to be the children and their families
And they must give up their lives for them.
It's the only way they can stand old age.

[p123]

He really doesn't want you to solve these things.
He just wants you and your family to do nothing else but serve him for the rest of his life.
The  harsh, incessant punishment, for their encroaching old age. 
I think they just don't want old age and all that comes with it.
They refuse to accept it. Yet they have no choice.
So they blame us. And we must make it up to them by dropping our own lives.
They wouldn't have done this, but we are expected to do this without their even asking.
We are expected to remove their pain!  It's not the pain that bothers him, it's just outrageous to him that he has to have it. 
He can't say that. They know old people feel pain. But I think it's what they want to say. They want to rage against the increasing fallibility of their bodies. ( If they accepted it they would feel less pain). But that would be ridiculous to others.  So they rage against us instead.

Moving from prime of life to elderly, it seems that they choose their children's complete  servitude to their needs,  as some sort of weird consolation prize.

They suffer, so we must suffer more.
They criticise; we must apologise.
They bleat and cry; we must run and fix.
They demand; we must always serve.
They ask ; we must never say no. Ever
We must sacrifice. We must sacrifice. 
We must do all this gladly.
No one else will do.
They must come first.

They are at end of life; so we must give up our lives.


 







It has to be the children and their families
And they must give up their lives for them.
It's the only way they can stand old age.

Super post nano and I think totally spot on.....

With Dad he doesn't have NEEDS that are not met. Every single time I've presented an option or solution to a problem and he will do everything he can to wriggle out and refuse it. He does not want problems fixed. Hes constantly trying to find problems but hes failing.

As you say, its so obvious, all he wants is my servitude to him. Me being there to do ANYTHING he wants. Its kinda sad because, in the past, like most people, I would do anything for him. I still will do ANYTHING SENSIBLE to help but hes not interested in that.

It upsets me because I've done so much for him. I've sorted out/arranged, phoned people, made things good for him. But he still insists on trying to ruin my life for some reason. Hes lied, manipulated, the lot.
Like you said, I can't help hes getting old.

Hit home today. Someone in work. His mother has severe dementia, doesnt even know him, she lives with my friends brother whos the carer. But when his brothers not available hes running around like an idiot making sure no harm comes to her. Then theres my Dad who quite frankly is in very good health.

[p123]

Had a crazy email from my brother. His wife can't go on saturdays now because shes got to see her own father so between my wife and I we'll HAVE TO GO every other week now. (At the moment I go once a fortnight on a sunday).
Apparently Dad likes someone to go to the betting shop (not sure what its called in the USA) on a saturday am. Quite why he can't go on the mobility scooter I'll never know - its like 200 yards. He used the scooter when it suits him yet I've got to drive 25 miles to pick up his bet, and go in his hometown. Definitly a FM is my brother!

Are you kidding me?

Hes got a MASSIVE chip on his shoulder about my wife. Honestly, its just crazy to think that, on her day off shes going drive an hour round trip to see an old man who, in the past, has treated her like crap.

I must admit I was tempted to reply and tell him you know what. I am SO angry. First thing I wanted to do was tell him that yes I do look after my own kids, and I don't go around having relationships, splitting up, then never bothering with the kids (hes got 3 kids from 2 different mothers that he doesnt bother seeing ever).

In the end, not that he deserved it I went for the mature option. I explained that, yes his wife needed to see her own father but I had kids to look after, a teenager whos autistic, and my wife has a long term illness (fibromyalgia) and her own mother. I explained that I'd had a chat with Dad and explained that I will continue to do what I can but its balancing everyone's needs here and that was the end of it.

Do you think I did it the right way?

Of course, Dad mentioned the weekend that brother was going to "have a chat" and this is when we had "well I do what I can" chat. Do I admit to Dad that hes contacted me? Dad will make a huge drama out if it - "woe is me my sons are arguing".

I probably won't tell my Mrs though. She'll exploded and think I should have told him!

Surprisingly, he replied with a thumbs up... Not sure what to make of that!

At the moment, I just wish so much that neither of them were in my life at all. Its that bad.

Can't wait until I tell Dad hes not coming to ours for Xmas day. Brother has already pulled the "ive booked a holiday" stunt. I know he probably hasnt. This is another of his "Make p do his share" tricks.  (Not sure how hes worked out the Xmas day unfairness though - I had him for 15 years he had him last 2 years!)

[moglow]

What you CAN do is step out of this triangle at any point in time. Seriously, stop having all these conversations with him and/or with your brother. You don't "have to" do any such thing. He wants to place his bets? He can go place them. That's not a requirement, it's entertainment. They can all make whatever demands they fancy, and you know what? You also have a job and a family and other responsibilities. You don't have to make excuses for yourself, your wife or anyone else. You have other obligations, period. You'll be there on x day at y time, and not before.

No, don't mention the "chat" with your father - he can have whatever chat he likes with whomever. You don't have to report in and you don't have to participate in chats that have nothing to do with you. Whatever they do or say is between them - not your circus, not your monkeys.

[p123]

What you CAN do is step out of this triangle at any point in time. Seriously, stop having all these conversations with him and/or with your brother. You don't "have to" do any such thing. He wants to place his bets? He can go place them. That's not a requirement, it's entertainment. They can all make whatever demands they fancy, and you know what? You also have a job and a family and other responsibilities. You don't have to make excuses for yourself, your wife or anyone else. You have other obligations, period. You'll be there on x day at y time, and not before.

No, don't mention the "chat" with your father - he can have whatever chat he likes with whomever. You don't have to report in and you don't have to participate in chats that have nothing to do with you. Whatever they do or say is between them - not your circus, not your monkeys.

Moglow - you stole my saying! :-)

Yes I agree. I just can't believe the attitude of BOTH of them. Its like Dad needs this so you jolly well will have to sort something out. Jeez.

He even said in his email something along the lines of I can't do it every saturday, so you and you're wife will have to take turns to do it. What? Like I said whys my wife involved?

Anyway, I've told him no now thats the end of it. I wanted to let him know my situation so he can't use this in the future saying he didn't know all this and I didnt tell him. If he now decides I still should do these things he gets blocked next time.

[p123]

Thing is with my brother and his wife its all obvious what they did and I can't believe they think I can't see it.

They live a mile away. SIL didn't work so she'd pop in during the week. Dad can be a sweet old man.
Then she worked out hes got money, and he started giving him and her the odd £50 from time to time. Worth it then.

Of course, knowing Dad shes roped in then for ever.

Shes one of those who always moans about work .Quit more jobs than I've had cooked dinners. One day I had an email, she was going to be Dads official carer because it meant she could help him and get paid by the government. Trouble is she was so thick she didn't check the criteria. Its £73 a week and its something like 30+ hours per week of caring. When I pointed that out she dropped that one like a hot stone! It was funny.

So as times gone on, Dad has worked his magic and she doesn't want to do it any more by the looks. I've seen the lies and caught them out a few times. Then hes started getting jealous that his wife goes to see Dad and mind doesn't and it looks like hes decided my wife should also contribute.

Thing is with Dad once you start doing something for him you'll NEVER get out of it. I found that. So hes made this mistake and got roped in and expects me to bail him out. You made your bed...

[nanotech]

I agree with the advice given already! Don't even think about getting roped in to Saturdays.

My brother tries this whenever  my dad decides he needs to go to a&e for this and that minor (or non existent) ailment.
A round robin email demanding a rota because he 'can't do it all' . He often ends up giving him a lift home from the hospital as he is the only driver local to him.My two sisters live near, but don't drive.

We were brought up in a sort of cult mentality -that the outside world is sooo dangerous.
For my sisters this has made them quite fearful adults. They are both black and white thinkers, and can behave quite oddly.

Younger one thinks she's allergic to phone screens and the older one harbours all sorts of conspiracy theories. Both have a wildly exaggerated fear of danger.
So they don't drive.
Because I do drive ( nobody worries about me driving of course !) there's an expectation on me to be the other one who helps when dad does this attention- seeking rubbish.

But I'm 30 miles away. It's an hours drive. NBro tried to tell me I'm 'only 30 minutes away'.
I think he believes his own tosh.
I told him to go check it on googlemaps!
I've told him that if dad gets worse I'm not doing any sort of a Rota
I'll go see him and care for him when I choose to. I can't be his carer.
Were not servants.
I honestly think that if dad developed dementia, my siblings  would panic, but I would probably begin to cope better?
I wouldn't be his carer, but I could certainly get help for him.  Visiting him, I reckon, would end up being quite pleasant! Is this a terrible thing to admit? I guess so.
It's an awful, terrible thing to say, but at least then,  it would be a straightforward problem. The hellish mind games, the FOG, would just  stop.

[nanotech]

I agree with the advice given already! Don't even think about getting roped in to Saturdays.

My brother tries this whenever  my dad decides he needs to go to a&e for this and that minor (or non existent) ailment.
A round robin email demanding a rota because he 'can't do it all' . He often ends up giving him a lift home from the hospital as he is the only driver local to him.My two sisters live near, but don't drive.

We were brought up in a sort of cult mentality -that the outside world is sooo dangerous.
For my sisters this has made them quite fearful adults. They are both black and white thinkers, and can behave quite oddly.

Younger one thinks she's allergic to phone screens and the older one harbours all sorts of conspiracy theories. Both have a wildly exaggerated fear of danger.
So they don't drive.
Because I do drive ( nobody worries about me driving of course !) there's an expectation on me to be the other one who helps when dad does this attention- seeking rubbish.

But I'm 30 miles away. It's an hours drive. NBro tried to tell me I'm 'only 30 minutes away'.
I think he believes his own tosh.
I told him to go check it on googlemaps!
I've told him that if dad gets worse I'm not doing any sort of a Rota
I'll go see him and care for him when I choose to. I can't be his carer.
Were not servants.
I honestly think that if dad developed dementia, my siblings  would panic, but I would probably begin to cope better?
I wouldn't be his carer, but I could certainly get help for him.  Visiting him, I reckon, would end up being quite pleasant! Is this a terrible thing to admit? I guess so.
It's an awful, terrible thing to say, but at least then, it would be a straightforward problem. The hellish mind games, the FOG, would just  stop.

[p123]

I agree with the advice given already! Don't even think about getting roped in to Saturdays.

My brother tries this whenever  my dad decides he needs to go to a&e for this and that minor (or non existent) ailment.
A round robin email demanding a rota because he 'can't do it all' . He often ends up giving him a lift home from the hospital as he is the only driver local to him.My two sisters live near, but don't drive.

We were brought up in a sort of cult mentality -that the outside world is sooo dangerous.
For my sisters this has made them quite fearful adults. They are both black and white thinkers, and can behave quite oddly.

Younger one thinks she's allergic to phone screens and the older one harbours all sorts of conspiracy theories. Both have a wildly exaggerated fear of danger.
So they don't drive.
Because I do drive ( nobody worries about me driving of course !) there's an expectation on me to be the other one who helps when dad does this attention- seeking rubbish.

But I'm 30 miles away. It's an hours drive. NBro tried to tell me I'm 'only 30 minutes away'.
I think he believes his own tosh.
I told him to go check it on googlemaps!
I've told him that if dad gets worse I'm not doing any sort of a Rota
I'll go see him and care for him when I choose to. I can't be his carer.
Were not servants.
I honestly think that if dad developed dementia, my siblings  would panic, but I would probably begin to cope better?
I wouldn't be his carer, but I could certainly get help for him.  Visiting him, I reckon, would end up being quite pleasant! Is this a terrible thing to admit? I guess so.
It's an awful, terrible thing to say, but at least then,  it would be a straightforward problem. The hellish mind games, the FOG, would just  stop.

Nano - no way am I getting roped in.

Like you I live 25 miles away-  its a minimum 30 min drive (motorway most of the way). So  a visit in half a day pretty much.

As I've said many times, my 16 year has Aspergers. Hes OK likes to stay home on computer games but I do need to consider him. My 6 year is a ball of energy. Shes got swimming, gymnastics, ballet, iceskating. Like a normal 6 year old! My wife works a lot of weekends, I do on call etc. Im 51 years old (yep Im grandad age with a 6 year old) - I just do not have the energy to drive to Dads for no reason at all..... It seems DOING NOTHING or just chilling at home with my kids is not a valid reason not to visit him in his eyes. I remember him once saying I looked tired and need to slow down. What??? He meant tell you're kids they can't do these things to make sure you're fit to visit me.

Ha ha know what you mean about dementia. At the moment, hes too clever with all his mind games. Its like a game of chess.

I visited last weekend and filled his freezer up. Pretty much I go once a fortnight. GUARANTEED he'll make a play for me to visit this weekend - trying to make the norm every weekend. Got to be ready.

[nanotech]

Hi p123 hey your kiddos are first priority and that's what you make them!! Who cares how old you are- that's your business. It didn't even cross my mind.
Six years olds have a lot going on, I know that! They need you there. And your son does too. Even if they are not engaging with you every second, they just enjoy dad around the house!
Pottering is so important for family bonding.

My dad didn't do a lot of it!

I've ten years between my oldest and youngest too. It's worked out amazing for us!

I've had that same response from my dad, about looking tired- more recently re the grandchildren, as two came along at once.

You can imagine how popular that was. 

And somehow, even though that baby making involved my adult kids not me, I got the blame!
I also got advised:

' You'll have your work cut out when they both arrive.
'Don't do too much.'
' Don't tire yourself out.'
' You do a lot for those children. They
(parents) should appreciate you.
' You've done too much.'
or better yet,
' You've done your DUTY now.'
Just as if I hadn't enjoyed any of it!

[p123]

Well, had an interesting chat with Dad on the phone last night too.
He asked "so has your brother contacted you?".

Hes given the game away here - how would he know? Looks like as suspected, the pair of them are in partnership here trying to get me to do extra. Hmmm. Not the first time this has happened. When it goes wrong, Dad always denies hes behind or knows anything about it.
I get the feeling this time they've discussed it and my brother has agreed to "have a word".

I told Dad, I had pointed out to brother the issues I have. I told Dad I do what I can and thats the end of it. I also pointed out that this is now the 4th of 5th time brother has tried this on. And its got to stop.
100% as expected I got the "oh no, don't argue" "I'm so upset that you're both arguing". YOU CAUSED IT!

I could tell he was upset. (probably upset he'd been caught out). In the past, I'd be concerned that was upset. NO MORE.

Apparently, Dad has made a doctor appointment for Saturday AM. Again assuming someone it taking him. Not me. Get a taxi. Brother will take him and once again it'll be my fault for being selfish (I am working though!)

Dad wasn't upset enough to stop him trying the "weekend nag". I was there last weekend. He KNOWS I go once a fortnight. I am working Saturday, Sunday I want to do things with my own family. But I tstill get the "make a big effort to visit". What? Easy one that though. I'll just ignore him and phone late sunday evening.

Did I mention I've got a bad back (its awful - I had a lumbar injection the other week). I can hardly drive- he knows this. So what does he want me to do Sunday, drive 25 miles to him, take him for a ride somewhere then drive 25 miles home. Are you kidding me?

[p123]

Hi p123 hey your kiddos are first priority and that's what you make them!! Who cares how old you are- that's your business. It didn't even cross my mind.
Six years olds have a lot going on, I know that! They need you there. And your son does too. Even if they are not engaging with you every second, they just enjoy dad around the house!
Pottering is so important for family bonding.

My dad didn't do a lot of it!

I've ten years between my oldest and youngest too. It's worked out amazing for us!

I've had that same response from my dad, about looking tired- more recently re the grandchildren, as two came along at once.

You can imagine how popular that was. 

And somehow, even though that baby making involved my adult kids not me, I got the blame!
I also got advised:

' You'll have your work cut out when they both arrive.
'Don't do too much.'
' Don't tire yourself out.'
' You do a lot for those children. They
(parents) should appreciate you.
' You've done too much.'
or better yet,
' You've done your DUTY now.'
Just as if I hadn't enjoyed any of it!

All sounds familiar!

To be honest, my Dad pretty much blanks my kids. Not interested. He sees them as an annoyance that get in the way of me giving him 100% attention. To be honest, its sickening to see.

My wifes mum is lovely. The kids love her to bits. My 6 year always tell us "nanny is number 1, mam number 2, Daddy number 3" (hey I used to be behind the cat!) Grampy not on the list. You can imagine what my wife thinks of my Dad!

With Dad, his whole life is a crisis in his head. Hes SO ILL. He SO STRUGGLING. He can't see how to live a normal loving life.
And, as hes said in the past, Hes old and I need to make him number 1 priority.

[nanotech]

It's not our fault that they got old. But I think that's how they see it.
We somehow have to become their legs/ wheels/ eyes/ brains etc. while never daring to assume we are even equal to them, never mind in control. 
You have your own priorities. Just tell him you have plans and you can't help.
Then just keep repeating that. 😊