uNPD MIL and new baby

[piggie]

hi all, me and DH are due our first baby (first grandchild for both families) at the end of December. I am worrying over the in-laws possible visit.

For some background, DH and I have been together 6 years, got married this year and the in-laws were lovely to me for the first 3 years (MIL would make passive aggressive and controlling comments but I ignored these for the greater good). In the last 3 years, they have essentially turned against me, and either blatantly lie or twist things to make me look bad. One of their "best" tactics is their "concern" for DH - that I am isolating him, causing him mental health problems, etc. MIL after setting off these stories with the SILs then takes a back seat and plays the victim (poor me/us, our son has been taken from us, etc) which amplifies the situation as the SILs then want to protect her. The first year of this was hard and we argued a lot, it nearly split us up, but I found out about NPD and suggested he read about it, which he did, and now he is firmly protective of me and us as a couple. SIL1 changed her mind and realised what their mum was up to, but the other did not. We think that MIL has NPD, and his 2 sisters are flying monkeys (one all the time, one on and off). Both have suffered fairly severe mental health conditions while DH suffers depression and anxiety (his is blamed on me). SIL2 is the golden child and SIL1 is the scapegoat. MIL regularly projects, triangulates, lies, blames, manipulates, gaslights, divide and conquers. One comment which shows them up is when MIL said to DH about me "how's this going to work if you can't control her?"

For some recent context, we got married a few months ago and a few months before the wedding it all blew up over a seating plan when SIL2 demands a change we didn't want to implement, she decided not to attend over this. She also felt it unfair that she and her boyfriend would have to take time off work, spend money on travel and accommodation, and that their poor dog would have to come (implying we should have considered their dog when deciding where to marry). Throughout this, they raised a variety of concerns about DH - they are worried about him (no reasons given), they think he is isolated, they are worried about his mental health, etc. But given how worried they make out they are, they rarely if ever call him, and almost never visit (once a year if that). MIL had a sob story that she had not been involved in the planning and that she wanted a "role" in the wedding (yet refused to provide an example) - she refused almost entirely to talk about the wedding with me present, so involving her was hard and in the end she wasn't really involved - a situation set up by herself. SIL1 said she would only come to support DH. They refused to attend any pre wedding events, booking their travel to coincide with one event and for a rearranged event to accommodate their travel they had excuses like they didn't want to meet my parents for lunch in case they dribbled their soup... MIL ignored me all day and SIL1 did make some efforts at conversation which was actually ok. Prior to the wedding, DH didn't talk to any of them for about 6 weeks after their bad behaviour, and he has never done this before but he just didn't want to deal with them and thought they were being ridiculous. First major smear campaign, he entertained them and tried to understand etc. he didn't stand up for me but tried to be fair, despite them being pretty nasty about me and making things up. Either way, he has come to see them for what they really are, and now does stand up for himself and me.

To get to my point! Baby due soon, I am worried about their possible first visit. We don't know if they will or not, they avoid visiting us almost at all costs. MIL hates being in our house, she is very tense and on edge. DH has said to MIL that perhaps they can visit the 2nd week of his paternity leave and she said "she doesn't know what she'll be doing then" (she is retired) and that maybe they can babysit... For a start they will never have unsupervised contact due to her previous physical treatment of DH and SIL1. But I don't know how I will feel with a new baby, and with a visit from them on top. I don't know what they are going to do... usually bad behaviour comes around at big life events for us. My current theory is that they will say they can't make the dates we will offer (2nd week paternity leave, I'm not willing to have them here if DH is at work) and avoid visiting. MIL will act like she doesn't care about something if she doesn't approve. But they wont leave it at simply not visiting, they are more likely to start arguments such as I'm not allowing them to visit because the dates have been suggested and try and use it against us. They also said if baby comes early then we can spend Christmas with them, nice enough idea but baby would be at most a week or two old and we aren't travelling 5-6 hours to visit them when they could visit us... They get offended if someone isn't there for Christmas, e.g. last Christmas DH spent it with my family and it caused a bit of a problem despite me spending the one before with them.

But I wondered if anyone else has experience of how their NPD family behaved when a baby arrived? and any coping strategies for a new mum and dad?

Although DH has said to MIL about visiting 2nd week of paternity leave, she will share or not share that information with the others depending on what story she is twisting. So I think he should send a message to their group chat with our plans but he is reluctant. It is the kind of thing that sparks an issue so I understand why. But MIL has more potential to twist things if the information isn't out there for them all to see the same. Any suggestions on how to minimise the likelihood of a big issue? And / or to deal with it when or if it arises? There is no reasoning with them, only cyclic arguments. I don't want that special time to be stressed out by in-laws bad behaviour.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Welcome and double congratulations!!! My younger self could have written much of your post, so forgive me if I sound a little patronizing. I'm expecting too around the same time as you are, but we have a large family. I remember feeling much the same with our first babies. Excited about the baby but dreading my mother's week to come and "help" but thinking that's just what we needed to do. 

"I don't want that special time to be stressed out by the in-laws' bad behavior."

That says it all. It sounds like the only way to avoid that is not to invite them. They are going to badmouth you no matter what you do. "Damned if you do, and damned if you don't, so you damn well do what's best for you!"

You are having a baby. Your first. That is overwhelming emotionally all on its own. Your identity is changing, your body is hurting and swelling and producing fluids in ways you never knew possible, and you are up at all hours of the night. Your hormones are all over the place. You may feel angry one minute and overwhelmed with love the next. And this is all normal! You don't need the in-laws drama while you navigate this change for you and your husband.

Sounds like you both feel obligated to have them there. You are not. It's absolutely your right not to invite them until you feel good and ready. Be that at two weeks, two months, or two years hence. Really. And even though they are far away you do NOT need to have them for an entire week. 

They have treated you horribly for six years, and you becoming the mother of their grandchild only makes things worse, not better in my experience and that of many others here. Making passive aggressive comments you must ignore doesn't count as being lovely. That's being passive-aggressive, it's abuse, and they have merely gotten worse. Your wedding sounds like they really tried their best to ruin it. I'm so sorry these are the people your husband came from.

You say your husband sees them for what they are and will stand up for you. Wonderful. This is an excellent time for him to do so. He can spin it however he wants. You need to not have visitors for the immediate postpartum time. You need to focus on your own little family only while you adjust. All reasonable. It won't matter. Healthy grandparents might be disappointed but would offer to help in some way. Can they send takeout? So glad babysitting is completely off the table. Not really appropriate for a baby that young in any case, as you say.

They won't give a rats' arse about your needs. Suggesting you travel that far for Christmas with a newborn?!? Your first baby?!? Honestly!  Past behavior tells the story. It won't make them happy. Sounds like they are ignoring and don't actually care about being there with you, but fully expect to be invited so they can choose to throw it back in your faces if they feel like "depriving" you of their company. Or show up so they can find something to gossip about you afterwards. My parents were much the same. I have cut them completely from our lives now, for even more serious abuse. You don't have to do that, hopefully, do not need to facilitate what is likely to lead to abusive behavior. Ever.

I like your idea of utilizing "public" communication with all family members to cut down on the twisting of information. They will see you as being difficult and isolating DH further. My parents liked to use that one too when they weren't granted immediate and unfettered access whenever they happened to decide they wanted it. You're really doing your relationships a favor and making it more sustainable by allowing only what is good for you.

This is tough and so much more could be said. I wish you and your husband and new child the very best!!!

[all4peace]

PIggie, welcome and congratulations!! I'm also in the stage of having been where you are, long ago. If I could do it all over, here's how I would handle it differently:

1. Get really clear with your DH on what your priorities are. I would have chosen marriage first, our little family second, loving relationships third, everyone else after that.
2. Get really clear with your DH on what your boundaries are. Promise to be a team, to have each other's back, to not let each other down or change your promises in the middle of conflict with the ILs.
3. Realize that YOUR little family has priority over the ILs. It's possible to have a relationship with them, but only you and your DH can decide how you want that to look. They may hate it, they may smear, and they may vote themselves out of your life entirely, but you still get to decide what you want and what you will and will not accept.

I like the idea of your DH communicating with all family members simultaneously. I've used that myself, either me or DH making sure the same communication went to everyone.

I agree with you that no matter what you offer they are likely to distort it and repeat their victim stories all around. You really can't control that, but you can expend a lot of energy that you need for yourself, your baby and your marriage right now worrying about that. I'm not minimizing that fear; I've had it myself. It's really upsetting to think that someone is smearing us to others we care about and want to have a sense of belonging with, but it's just not possible for us to control it and it helped me tremendously to get to a place where I accepted that and simply tried to live my life as my best self.

As for what happened to me when our first baby was born? I lived (and still do, but hopefully not for long) next door to uNBPDmil. I grew up with a uNBPDm, and so I thought mil was actually really great. Until I got pregnant. The weirdness became obvious then, and once our baby was born it got much worse. She showed a lot of entitlement to our lives and our home and our baby, possessiveness of our baby (despite really not having a clue about babies or children--she just wanted to cuddle) and meanness to me about lack as a mother. I got incessant comments about how I wasn't being a good mother, phrased in passive-aggressive comments like "Oh, didn't mommy.....? (fill in the blank: dress you warmly enough, feed you, change your diaper, burp you)" She would show up in my living room unannounced, cry to fil that she didn't get our baby whenever she wanted, and then when I set up a weekly "grandma's hour" for her with my first child, she would repeatedly cancel. It was crazy making.

Just know that we understand, we believe you, and you are spot on to start planning ahead because for many of us it only gets worse after the baby is born. I don't say that to cause anxiety, just to prepare you. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and it sounds like your husband is coming Out of the FOG much quicker than some of us have experienced. You can do this! Keep posting and take care.

[candy]

Dear piggie,

first of all congratulations on starting a family! I wish you all the best for the birth and childbed and for all the precious time lying ahead!

IME you are right to assume that a grandchild won't change your PDIL(s) for the better. Mine didn't. On the contrary my NPDMIL has since shown a sense of entitlement concerning my child that has been groundbreaking for where our relationship was heading. DH's relationship with each of his parents has since got splits that do not allow to go back to his illusion of the perfect FOO. It has been hurtful for DH but also for me, the DIL, and I had wished and had tried for something different.

I wish someone had told me at the time, so I'll tell you - and you just take what suits you and forget about the rest.

As newly parents you have every right to be supported, valued and protected by everyone around you. Visitors should be helpful and supportive, they should not boss you around, stress you out or put tension on your marriage and the developing relationship between the three of you. Regardless who it is if someone doesn't fit into the good visitors criteria, you will maybe have to rethink their visit.

You, as a new mother, are allowed to be more sensitive than ever. This time in life makes us very susceptible to all kind of influences, and this is a good thing. We feel and see danger, toxic abusive people included. Your gut is already telling you to define clear limits (no unsupervised visits, no visits without DH present), please keep listening to you!

It is in fact very nice of the two of you trying to find an appointment that fits into their schedule.
DH and I were nice in a similar way: we asked how everyone wanted to be informed when baby would arrive. My ILs said they didn't care as they were planning to be on vacation anyway. Surprisingly the day DD was born NMIL was the only one who forced her way into the hospital room twice.

We were very nice again when we asked how everyone in both FOOs wanted to celebrate Christmas. It was DD's first.
My NPDMIL made it all about her. At the end MIL and FIL told DH they were going to celebrate Christmas with BIL's ILs and he, DH, was the only one not celebrating with his FOO - and guess what, me the scapegoat DIL had made them do it. So in their minds I was to blame for them disinviting their son. Like you say: twisted.

Your SILs don't have kids of their own (yet), so they probably won't be able to emphasize with the worries and needs of a new family. What helped me being compassionate about my BIL's and his spouse's lack of empathy towards us was to remember that the only ,,expert" BIL could ask about mothering and parenting was my NMIL and uNFIL - and I've seen for myself what a lousy job they've done 

If it is at all possible please stop caring what your MIL will or won't tell to the others, SIL and SIL. If the SILs want to know, they will ask DH or you. If they don't ask for your point of view, they will already have made their mind regardless what you say. That is my experience with golden child BIL.

If we had to do it again, DH would possibly send a private message, a brief one: we offered (x), mother denied, if you hear otherwise, that is not true.
But still we would have no control over what they chose to believe.
I am NC with the IL's and wouldn't do anything to give them the idea of a door opened again, that's why public communication or even we-messages are off the table. For your situation it might be the right solution.

Again, this time is not about them. It is about you. As the posters above have stated: you are not obligated to have them there.
Allowing others to participate how you become a mother, how DH and you and baby become a family, introduce a tiny human, is a gift you are giving. It is not anyone's right or your obligation, but a beautiful opportunity for the grandparents and aunts to be loving and caring. If they miss that chance, that's on them!

You do not have to give details or information about your degree of relationship, but if you are looking for a good real person advice maybe you can ask your midwife? My midwife really helped me to lightly exclude demanding personalities from childbed.

Take care!

[H_Allison]

Piggie-

I could have taken your words to explain my situation almost exactly! DH and I were in the exact same position this time last year as I was pregnant with DD, the first grandchild on both sides. With the support of this forum, I was able to really draw a hard line on some boundaries and looking back, I have absolutely not regrets on how I handled everything. In fact, I think it actually set the stage for me to step into my new role as a parent confidently and with authority. This is your baby, your body, and your choice. Every. Single. Piece. Also- I laid out the ground rules clearly before the baby arrived to everyone. Here are some things that when looking back, still make me swell with pride:
1. We did not alert MIL until after baby had arrived. The four hour drive and the late notification ensured that if there was to be a surprise visit, at least I would be somewhat put back together.
2. There were no cameras at any visits aside from mine. That includes cell phones, video cameras, everything. I did not want to risk giving MIL the opportunity to take this life event and make it hers while also giving her the chance to catch me at an unflattering, vulnerable moment.
3. I actually called MIL a couple months before due date to tell her myself that she would not be visiting us at the hospital when baby was born. I told her that she had not built enough of a relationship with me to allow her that kind of access to my child. It was not up for discussion. I think me making the call (on speaker with DH there to back me up) reinforced that this was a mutual decision and that there was no room for triangulation. It also established that I was the gatekeeper for my child. She wants access to them, she better make sure that things are right with me. There are consequences for bad behavior.
4. Do not commit to any plans before the baby comes. You don't know what you don't know. After delivery, you might feel fantastic- I did! I was prepared for the Armageddon of postpartum, but actually I felt great immediately after. My physical recovery was almost easy. The emotional on the other hand, knocked me on my ass. Mostly because I wasn't expecting it. The point is- you don't know what postpartum is going to look like for you- uniquely you and uniquely this baby. By not feeling obligated to any pre-made plans, I was able to do what was best for my recovery, relationship, and baby. Everyone (who isn't PD) will totally understand and even support you in this. Don't commit to anything with MIL until you know what you're up against.
5. MIL was not welcome in our house. If we were to meet her, it would be somewhere neutral. This happened when DD was around 6 weeks old actually. I felt comfortable meeting halfway at a restaurant- we ate one meal and then went home. Done. 
6. Prepare you DH for how tough this recovery is going to be for you. Give him a role as your protector, not just from MIL but everyone. He needs to be patient and gentle, steady and consistent- the rock for a little bit. It sounds like you are in a great place here, but I think it was helpful for my DH to hear that this was bigger than MIL- this was a huge thing that was happening to me and I needed him to guard a safe place for me to go through it. Someone explained it to my DH like this once: "Imagine waking up in a different body, naked. Wouldn't you rather do that in your bedroom than your front yard?" It's a little over simplified and dramatic, but for my DH it helped him understand that 'helping' wasn't just cooking dinner or changing diapers, it was also keeping me wrapped in a comfortable, warm place while I figured this whole thing out. He needed to follow my lead and support me.
7. Finally, don't put in any more effort than MIL. You will be doing everything with a new baby! Your FOC is the one who should be accommodated! If she's not asking for it, don't offer. If she wants something, evaluate it in the context of your priorities, not hers.

Good luck and chin up- you've got this, mama! There were some great posts when I asked this same question a year ago- maybe there were some other ideas there that could be helpful for you. You might want to check it out.

[homersiliad]

Hi piggie,

I remember when I became a father. The other posters have said it better than I can.  This is all about you and your baby. If it were me I wouldn't pre-plan anything. I wouldn't even think about having visits until after 2nd week (though I understand your DH has paternity leave then). When my DW gave birth we had uPDMIL visit in 1st week and it was a bad idea. During the most important time in your life (1st baby) you don't want to be dealing with their £$%*#. Seriously, stuff them all.

[piggie]

They won't give a rats' arse about your needs. Suggesting you travel that far for Christmas with a newborn?!? Your first baby?!? Honestly!  Past behavior tells the story. It won't make them happy. Sounds like they are ignoring and don't actually care about being there with you, but fully expect to be invited so they can choose to throw it back in your faces if they feel like "depriving" you of their company. Or show up so they can find something to gossip about you afterwards. My parents were much the same. I have cut them completely from our lives now, for even more serious abuse. You don't have to do that, hopefully, do not need to facilitate what is likely to lead to abusive behavior. Ever.

You are so right - they definitely don't care about my needs, and I'm not sure they care about their own adult children's needs either. You are also absolutely right on them expecting to be invited so they can 'disappoint' us by not visiting. And they will gossip regardless of whether they come or not and regardless of whether or not any of their gossips actually happened!     One time I firmly but politely declined MIL trying to gift me DHs dead grandmothers old shoes... she made a huge fuss to the rest of the family about how rude I had been, and all but DH fell for it without question. There was no one else in the room when this happened annoyingly but DH couldn't believe how ridiculous she was about it.

Also you are right about them not being lovely if they have been being passive aggressive - I just accepted this as how MIL was and even when I mentioned this to DH this afternoon, he said that's just how she is, but accepts that its not nice. He just has never questioned it much before and is so used to their behaviour. He does appreciate me pointing things out as he doesn't always see it immediately. He has always just ignored anything that doesn't affect what he is doing for an easy life essentially. SIL1 questioned her parents behaviour and was punished, emotionally and physically.

[piggie]

As for what happened to me when our first baby was born? I lived (and still do, but hopefully not for long) next door to uNBPDmil. I grew up with a uNBPDm, and so I thought mil was actually really great. Until I got pregnant. The weirdness became obvious then, and once our baby was born it got much worse. She showed a lot of entitlement to our lives and our home and our baby, possessiveness of our baby (despite really not having a clue about babies or children--she just wanted to cuddle) and meanness to me about lack as a mother. I got incessant comments about how I wasn't being a good mother, phrased in passive-aggressive comments like "Oh, didn't mommy.....? (fill in the blank: dress you warmly enough, feed you, change your diaper, burp you)" She would show up in my living room unannounced, cry to fil that she didn't get our baby whenever she wanted, and then when I set up a weekly "grandma's hour" for her with my first child, she would repeatedly cancel. It was crazy making.

Just know that we understand, we believe you, and you are spot on to start planning ahead because for many of us it only gets worse after the baby is born. I don't say that to cause anxiety, just to prepare you. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and it sounds like your husband is coming Out of the FOG much quicker than some of us have experienced. You can do this! Keep posting and take care.

Those passive aggressive comments I can see happening in this situation too. Did you have a good way to respond? I am used to just ignoring comments like that but I am resenting it now and would like to find a way to defend myself without starting an argument.

[piggie]

As newly parents you have every right to be supported, valued and protected by everyone around you. Visitors should be helpful and supportive, they should not boss you around, stress you out or put tension on your marriage and the developing relationship between the three of you. Regardless who it is if someone doesn't fit into the good visitors criteria, you will maybe have to rethink their visit.

I really like this way of thinking about a good visitors criteria! It is a good way to manage who we will feel comfortable with and who we won't, and also to help in justifying our decisions to ourselves, as both of us are still guilty of not perhaps defending ourselves as we should simply because it's family.

[piggie]

1. We did not alert MIL until after baby had arrived. The four hour drive and the late notification ensured that if there was to be a surprise visit, at least I would be somewhat put back together.
2. There were no cameras at any visits aside from mine. That includes cell phones, video cameras, everything. I did not want to risk giving MIL the opportunity to take this life event and make it hers while also giving her the chance to catch me at an unflattering, vulnerable moment.
3. I actually called MIL a couple months before due date to tell her myself that she would not be visiting us at the hospital when baby was born. I told her that she had not built enough of a relationship with me to allow her that kind of access to my child. It was not up for discussion. I think me making the call (on speaker with DH there to back me up) reinforced that this was a mutual decision and that there was no room for triangulation. It also established that I was the gatekeeper for my child. She wants access to them, she better make sure that things are right with me. There are consequences for bad behavior.
4. Do not commit to any plans before the baby comes. You don't know what you don't know. After delivery, you might feel fantastic- I did! I was prepared for the Armageddon of postpartum, but actually I felt great immediately after. My physical recovery was almost easy. The emotional on the other hand, knocked me on my ass. Mostly because I wasn't expecting it. The point is- you don't know what postpartum is going to look like for you- uniquely you and uniquely this baby. By not feeling obligated to any pre-made plans, I was able to do what was best for my recovery, relationship, and baby. Everyone (who isn't PD) will totally understand and even support you in this. Don't commit to anything with MIL until you know what you're up against.
5. MIL was not welcome in our house. If we were to meet her, it would be somewhere neutral. This happened when DD was around 6 weeks old actually. I felt comfortable meeting halfway at a restaurant- we ate one meal and then went home. Done. 
6. Prepare you DH for how tough this recovery is going to be for you. Give him a role as your protector, not just from MIL but everyone. He needs to be patient and gentle, steady and consistent- the rock for a little bit. It sounds like you are in a great place here, but I think it was helpful for my DH to hear that this was bigger than MIL- this was a huge thing that was happening to me and I needed him to guard a safe place for me to go through it. Someone explained it to my DH like this once: "Imagine waking up in a different body, naked. Wouldn't you rather do that in your bedroom than your front yard?" It's a little over simplified and dramatic, but for my DH it helped him understand that 'helping' wasn't just cooking dinner or changing diapers, it was also keeping me wrapped in a comfortable, warm place while I figured this whole thing out. He needed to follow my lead and support me.
7. Finally, don't put in any more effort than MIL. You will be doing everything with a new baby! Your FOC is the one who should be accommodated! If she's not asking for it, don't offer. If she wants something, evaluate it in the context of your priorities, not hers.

This is all brilliant advice thank you - I especially like no.1 - I  think we probably won't tell anyone until after the birth, because I just feel like I'd rather no one knew when I'm in labour so we aren't inundated with messages from anyone, I just want us both to be able to focus on us and baby and not the outside world. I also think it's a good idea to not commit to any plans beforehand - annoyingly my brain just wants to predict and theorise and prepare for what might happen. But motherhood won't be predictable so perhaps this will be good practice!

[piggie]

Hi piggie,

I remember when I became a father. The other posters have said it better than I can.  This is all about you and your baby. If it were me I wouldn't pre-plan anything. I wouldn't even think about having visits until after 2nd week (though I understand your DH has paternity leave then). When my DW gave birth we had uPDMIL visit in 1st week and it was a bad idea. During the most important time in your life (1st baby) you don't want to be dealing with their £$%*#. Seriously, stuff them all.

Good advice not to preplan, I hadn't really thought of it like that but it makes sense. My family are coming to visit almost a month after my due date, but I have no issues with having that planned in as DH will have gone back to work by then and I want family around as he has a demanding job.

[piggie]

Thank you all for the supportive and incredibly helpful comments! I am feeling less worried and more encouraged now, sometimes I do question if I am being too harsh but I think generally we are more than fair in how we handle things. I avoid confrontation whenever possible and should have said in the first post, I have never argued face to face with them, or behaved badly, or caused offence (not counting what they make up!).

I think I will be open to giving them the chance to behave, and allow a visit in that second week. But it won't be for an entire week, and I think we will consider requesting that they don't stay with us and find somewhere else to stay. I think this would help reduce my worrying as we can limit visits better and still have our own space, and also have the option to just say no more if it goes wrong.

The other issue I've got, which I'm less worried about, is SIL1 coming to visit for a few days 1-2 weeks before my due date. She was particularly nasty about me through messages to DH before the wedding, she hasn't been nasty to my face, and since the wedding she seems to be making more of an effort with DH. She will probably never apologise or admit to anyone that she behaved badly. But the reason/s I would like to potentially overlook her behaviour is that she is in a difficult place personally, she has borne the brunt of MILs behaviour, and is now seeking help with the thoughts that her upbringing is the cause of many of her problems. I genuinely do feel for her, and her and DH were close before the wedding issues. I think she is easily manipulated by MIL, and I think that is what has happened pre wedding. However, she didn't ask us about visiting so close to my due date before booking travel, despite knowing when due date is, and seems keen to stick around should baby be early - DH has told her firmly that she would need to head back in that case. Either way, neither of us are particularly happy about it, but admit that it could be nice if I still feel ok and baby hasn't arrived. And we also realise that it's possible to try and rebuild a better relationship with her, and that she hasn't really got anyone else bar SIL2 who she doesn't get on with all that well, MIL and FIL. So I am undecided on this one. On one hand I just want to say this time is all about us, and I'm not 100% comfortable with the visit, so no. On the other hand, I feel for her and would like to extend a welcome (with conditions of not coming or leaving early if baby arrives, or if I don't feel up to it). However, she doesn't have a partner (which helped DH commit to seeing their behaviour as it is) and I can see that she is likely to keep returning to MIL and her FOO and falling into the trap of their manipulation again.   Which means that we can't really trust her, and when she is in the trap, she is a true flying monkey and feeds MIL everything.

[all4peace]

As for what happened to me when our first baby was born? I lived (and still do, but hopefully not for long) next door to uNBPDmil. I grew up with a uNBPDm, and so I thought mil was actually really great. Until I got pregnant. The weirdness became obvious then, and once our baby was born it got much worse. She showed a lot of entitlement to our lives and our home and our baby, possessiveness of our baby (despite really not having a clue about babies or children--she just wanted to cuddle) and meanness to me about lack as a mother. I got incessant comments about how I wasn't being a good mother, phrased in passive-aggressive comments like "Oh, didn't mommy.....? (fill in the blank: dress you warmly enough, feed you, change your diaper, burp you)" She would show up in my living room unannounced, cry to fil that she didn't get our baby whenever she wanted, and then when I set up a weekly "grandma's hour" for her with my first child, she would repeatedly cancel. It was crazy making.

Just know that we understand, we believe you, and you are spot on to start planning ahead because for many of us it only gets worse after the baby is born. I don't say that to cause anxiety, just to prepare you. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and it sounds like your husband is coming Out of the FOG much quicker than some of us have experienced. You can do this! Keep posting and take care.

Those passive aggressive comments I can see happening in this situation too. Did you have a good way to respond? I am used to just ignoring comments like that but I am resenting it now and would like to find a way to defend myself without starting an argument.

At the time I didn't know what to say at all. These days I think I'd try a "What an interesting/strange thing to say."

[Solong]

I'll keep this brief and reflective of the level of energy I believe you should give these people. If I were you, I would notify everyone that you will welcome visitors on x date. Push it out far after baby (maybe 4 weeks, 6 weeks or similar). If you can delay longer and set up a meet and greet somewhere neutral like a friends house.

Put up lots of distance and don't worry if they don't come around. It doesn't sound like they'd be helpful anyway.

[piggie]

I'll keep this brief and reflective of the level of energy I believe you should give these people. If I were you, I would notify everyone that you will welcome visitors on x date. Push it out far after baby (maybe 4 weeks, 6 weeks or similar). If you can delay longer and set up a meet and greet somewhere neutral like a friends house.

Put up lots of distance and don't worry if they don't come around. It doesn't sound like they'd be helpful anyway.

Thank you, you're right on the time and energy I should put into this should be minimal, sometimes I can't help but worry. Good idea on setting a date and sticking to it (they will say they can't make that date and then say that I'm stopping them seeing their grandchild). We were aiming for week 2 just because that's my partners last week of paternity leave (they wouldn't be coming for a week, but it would give a week of potential dates) and I don't want them here when he isn't. but we do have another option when baby would be potentially 6-8 weeks old when DH is off again so perhaps we will aim for then instead.

[Fiasco]

I vote for 6 to 8 weeks! It's a baby not a piece of fresh fish. What's the horrific rush? Babies are much more fun to hold at 6 to 8 weeks too, in my silly opinion.

[Unvitation to Drama]

Oh Honey!

You have a Lose/Lose Situation Mother In Law too! You are definitely not alone.

My kids are older now, and we are more than five years NC with my in-laws.

Enjoy the end of your pregnancy.
Make DH the gatekeeper.
Don't fiddle with any of them until after the New Year.

[piggie]

Oh Honey!

You have a Lose/Lose Situation Mother In Law too! You are definitely not alone.

My kids are older now, and we are more than five years NC with my in-laws.

Enjoy the end of your pregnancy.
Make DH the gatekeeper.
Don't fiddle with any of them until after the New Year.

It does feel lose lose! it doesn't seem to matter what we do, nothing is ever acceptable.

what do you think about SIL visiting before Christmas in December? I originally said yes but am starting to think it will stress me out. I think perhaps she has realised her behaviour earlier in the year was not ok, but they don't do apologies, so I'm not sure and I was hoping that by saying ok to her visit that we could rebuild some bridges. but she is not Out of the FOG yet, she is the scapegoat now adult child, and she does get sucked back in which is when she isn't nice to us so it's hardly a non risky visit!

[Unvitation to Drama]

Oh Honey!

You have a Lose/Lose Situation Mother In Law too! You are definitely not alone.

My kids are older now, and we are more than five years NC with my in-laws.

Enjoy the end of your pregnancy.
Make DH the gatekeeper.
Don't fiddle with any of them until after the New Year.

It does feel lose lose! it doesn't seem to matter what we do, nothing is ever acceptable.

what do you think about SIL visiting before Christmas in December? I originally said yes but am starting to think it will stress me out. I think perhaps she has realised her behaviour earlier in the year was not ok, but they don't do apologies, so I'm not sure and I was hoping that by saying ok to her visit that we could rebuild some bridges. but she is not Out of the FOG yet, she is the scapegoat now adult child, and she does get sucked back in which is when she isn't nice to us so it's hardly a non risky visit!

Go with your gut. Especially at the end of pregnancy. If you are going to feel stressed, postpone the visit. You're the one who is pregnant. I won't even get into the logistics of an early delivery. Don't be a martyr. Take care of yourself.

[Andeza]

I agree, best to avoid the dysfunction as much as possible. Our son was born earlier this year, the whole family was respectful of our privacy when we sent out the announcement a couple hours after he arrived. Except uBPDm.... who upon receiving the text message immediately tried to call me. I was recovering from precipitous labor, a home delivery that ended up being almost completely unassisted, not scary really just surprising. It wasn't exactly what we had in mind when we chose to have a home birth. But there was no way in heck I was taking phone calls, also I had pretty much lost my voice from the labor. I gave DH my phone and let him hold onto it for the next few days. He fielded all calls and well wishes while I made the transition, which was really rough. I'd heard about the emotional swings after delivery but more or less dismissed it saying "Nah, I got this." Dang. It knocked me on my butt. If my disordered mother had been visiting to "help" as she initially wanted to, I think things would have gone about ten thousand times worse. But we told her no. She said we hurt her feelings, but in reality it was just self-preservation (of my sanity).

As it was, I worked at my job (60+ hours a week) until the day before my due date, with everybody, including my boss, constantly checking to make sure I was still okay. Little guy decided to be a week and a half late. I know the concern is usually that stress will lead to a preterm birth, but the opposite is also a possibility. Going past due is no fun either, you're just over it at that point.

You mention in the opening post that you're worried about them arguing about the dates etc. Remember, it takes two people to argue, and hanging up the phone when someone is treating your poorly is not rude, it's just self-preservation (of your sanity!)

You and your little one are the most important thing right now. If the in-laws are looking for reasons to be butt-hurt, they'll find reasons, no matter how generous or polite you are. You can't make everybody happy, so your FOC might as well be the focus. You, your DH, and the little one. Wishing you a drama free labor, easy labor, happy, healthy baby!