Its all kicked off tonight

[p123]

Just called me. Hes how it went...

Dad: So you're coming up sunday?
Me: No Dad we already discussed this.
Dad: No you said you'd sort something out. (He has a habit of doing this)
Me: No I didn't say that.
Dad: Why not?
Me: I told you family stuff and wife working shifts (yes first mistake)
Dad: Yes but you can bring x (my 7 year old) with you. (this is rich when in the past hes moaned when I brought her)
Me: No Dad its boring for a 7 year old to sit her in the corner and ignore her.
Dad: She'll be ok. She used to come here..... (this is how it goes with him).
Dad: Well, I'd like to see you both (this is lie - he wants ME to go up there is all)
Me: <Silence> (yes I did this right)
Dad: OK so you'll probably be up then. Ring me in the morning to let me know what time you are coming? (Its unbelievable isn't it? He is such a bully).
Me: No I will speak to you sunday. (yeh I should have repeated Im not coming up)
Dad: Yes well, I need you to visit me...... (Jeez he never stops)

This is probably the 20th time we've had this sort of conversation. What will happen now is I won't ring him until later on sunday. If I ring him earlier all I'll get is a repeat of todays conversation. If I ring him late (which I will do) then I'll get told things like "you're messing me about you promised to let me know what time you were coming". "Where have you been all day?" etc etc

If I don't ring him at all, he will ring my phone until I answer. If I block his number or turn the phone off - did this in the past. I spoke to him a day later and he said he was going to call the police because he thought something had happened to me. I can honestly see him doing something like this to be honest.

Its like I'm trapped in a prison cell and can't escape...

[p123]

So obligation is still factoring heavily in your decision making process. In addition, you said you're afraid he'll be upset. What part of him being upset concerns you? Is it the child within that remembers how scary it is when dad gets angry and demanding, or is it something else?

Well, I think its a problem with me - I hate conflict. Can't deal with..... Im the same with people in work. I worry I've upset someone etc.


Obviously, most of us would rather not upset our elderly parents. I know I should call it as it is but I can't do it.

[Adrianna]

If you are struggling with saying no then you DO still care too much about what they think.

Not only is he harassing you, he's also controlling you. You're giving him your power by not saying a firm no. No excuses, no reasons. You have every right to say no to him and anyone else.

He will wiggle in however he can and take any opportunity to trip you up on this. He does not respect your boundaries at all. That's HIS issue, not yours. You can still set boundaries even if he doesn't respect them.

Have you considered therapy for yourself or counseling? It really helps to find a good trauma therapist, one trained in healing from emotional abuse and narcissism.

[Waz]

You are not upsetting your Dad. He is choosing to be upset to manipulate you. No is a complete sentence, not a cause of conflict.

[Sidney37]

I was where you are a year ago.  I'm getting ready to start therapy with a NPD expert and I looked back over my old posts to recall all of it to pass the info along to the therapist. 

Someone here asked me back then what I thought the consequence would be if I just said no.  My issue wasn't visiting, it was answering 6-8 calls a day and when boundaries stopped that, it was the expectation that i call her twice a day, every day at a time that was convenient for her.  I had to be a mind reader to know when that was.  If i went 24 hours without calling there was a threat or a consequence.  I was in my 40s!

But I had to think long and hard about what the consequence was that I was so scared of.  What had they done or threatened to do over  the years or done that I was so afraid of.  I realized they couldn't take my car away or get it repossessed.  They couldn't stop paying their small portion of my tuition and cause me to have to quit college.   They make less money and I owe them none, so they couldn't threaten financial consequences.   Most of my older relatives have passed so the threat they have used in the past of not telling me that a relative passed (they actually did that when in college I went a whole weekend without calling twice a day) no longer worked.  In the end I was afraid of what people in the community where I haven't lived in 20+ years might think of me - what their friends at my old church might think.  I was worried that one of my parents might commit suicide and I would be blamed.   There was a threat, but it didn't happen.   Now they refuse to speak to me because I won't call twice a day and I wanted an apology for the awful suicide threat texts.   I didn't get the apology.  We are now NC.

What are you afraid the consequence might be?  You don't have to tell us.   You have to know so you can accept that either it won't happen or it it does, that it's not your fault.  It's his fault.   You have every right to tell him no. 

This is hard work.   It was terrifying for me.   Others thought it seemed crazy that I couldn't just say no, but we have been punished for so many years for having boundaries that it seems terrifying.

WI is right.  No is a complete sentence.   Read again about JADEing.   You don't owe him an explanation.  A therapist could help.   Are you able to find one?

[nanotech]

Wrote a long post then my phone died!
I've had a glass of Prosecco ( only one!) and feeling sleepy and probably will be snoring soon,  so I'm just going to write this-
I agree with WI and lkdrymom!
Everything they said is spot on!
All you have to do is
BE THE WALL, BE STRONG.
Don't respond to the FOG.
You are busy with your family at the weekend. End of!

Just to add, not fair on your wife or your daughter to do that to them each weekend.
Remember that if calls with him get difficult you can say bye and end the call. If he rings back you do NOT have to pick up. It doesn't matter that he knows you are in. You are completely entitled to be busy doing other things. Stop letting him rule your life. He seems to be in charge of you, and that has to stop.
Letting the phone ring is a new skill I've learned.
Boundaries are everything. So is your family of choice. Your PD dad comes miles after them. He's lucky he gets a visit at all in my view.
You have a HUMAN RIGHT not to talk to your brother. If dad questions it, be assertive.
' I can understand you might feel like that dad but I'm not talking to him, and that's simply the end of that discussion.'
No need to give any reason. They use reasons against us. It's up to you whether you speak to brother or not. UP TO YOU. You don't have to 'report in'to your dad about your relationship with your brother.

Well, wifes new job means she works 6 weekends out of 8. I dont want to waste half a day of the weekends we have together ferrying him around.

He actually said as well "bring x with you then and we can go out for a ride". This is my 7 year old who in the past has hes moaned I brought her. Jeez.
I've done this in the past, took them both to a country park where theres a playground. He literally lets her play for 5 mins then wants to go home. In the past, I've left him sit in the car for 30 mins sulking and hes moaning he want to go home now.

I said NO. 7 year olds do not want to sit in the car for an hour driving around - its boring. He doesnt care of course.
Ended with me saying I'm not talking to brother - END OF. Not his decision its mine and he does not get involved. I will take him out IF I can but hes got to understand I've got other things on.

You wrote that your dad
'....has got to understand I've got other things on.'
Just bear this in mind. He may never ever understand it. He may voice dissent evermore, moaning and groaning and lamenting and finger pointing until the day he dies. So maybe don't expect understanding.
He does have to accept it, even if he's extremely reluctant to do so.
Just hold steady.
If YOU can accept his continual disapproval, countering it with boundaries and low or no contact, then you can live your life as a free person. At present, I don't think you are a  free person. Your dad looms too large in your life.
Stop caring what he thinks. Stop listening to his demands. You are saying no, but it isn't ending there. If I were you I would limit  your contact to call only when you want to,  and on phone calls,  put clear boundaries down. Tell him you won't discuss certain things. Don't react in any way to waifing. Don't respond to it. Wait till he's waifed then simply  change the subject. Yes, you can do that. Don't  offer solutions. He wants there to be no solution so he will enjoy shooting them down and hearing your growing frustration.
You don't have to ring up regularly just to hear abuse. That's what this is. 
It's hard to break away, then a bit easier,  then easy. Then it becomes effortless. 
Eventually you will look at how you reacted in the past, and gasp in disbelief.
It's an amazing feeling when you stop being reactive, when you stop
running round after them, out of fear, obligation and guilt.

[WomanInterrupted]

Your dad is never, EVER going to understand that you've got other things going on and more than that, he doesn't CARE.  HE is the priority and YOU are going to make him that priority, so help him!   

You say you don't like conflict - I understand.  I'm not big on it myself, but sometimes we *have* to stand up for ourselves and say, "This is ridiculous!"

What I'd do, if I were you is NOT call Sunday.  If he starts blowing up the phone, block him.  If he sends the police, explain your father is old and starting to lose it.  Please do NOT report back to him that you're okay - and please keep it in mind if he keeps calling about your "safety."   

Explain he's not incompetent, but you can't control what he does, either. 

You're not the one who is going to get in trouble with the police.  They do NOT like to be used and manipulated, and if  your father keeps it up, he's going to wind up with a summons, a fine, both  - or a night in the slammer, to teach him a lesson.

Call MONDAY - if you want.  If you don't want, call Tuesday.   

If he immediately starts moaning, hang up.  Block his number.  Call again in a week or so *if you want to.* 

In a week or so, you may not want to - that's okay.  You don't HAVE to.  He's not alone, on an ice - he lives in a town and they have services he can utilize.

Or not.  That's up to him.  You can't force him to accept help, but it won't go well for him if The Authorities get involved - and they will, eventually.

You seem like you're afraid of your father - you are both ADULTS.  There is *nothing* he can do to you, as mentioned before.  He can't ground you, send you to bed without supper or take away  your allowance.

Your father has NO power - only FOG and words at his disposal, which he'll use to keep you coming back, whether you like it or not.

Neither you nor your brother are *required* to take care of him.  Your brother certainly doesn't want to, so why should it fall to you, who has so much more going on?

It doesn't have to if you decide that you and your father are on equal footing and you've just as much right to an opinion  as he does and yours just happens to be, "No. You're going to have to figure out something else.  I'm too busy and besides, I really don't  want to visit you."

If he decides to force the issue that's when you have to use every tool at your  disposal and play hardball in refusing to visit and calling even less.

Those are the *consequences* to his bad behavior.

He doesn't just get to skate - there are measures you can take to preserve your peace, sanity - and marriage.

Please keep in mind - your kids are watching all of this.  What kind of lessons do  you want them to learn about you?  That you're a total pushover - or that you say what you mean, mean what you say and have boundaries that can't be broken?

I'd rather the latter - so please keep that in mind.   

Once I got over my fear of Didi and let *anger* settle in - how DARE you!? - things got really interesting.  I wouldn't moan to DH about Didi's tactics, but would say, "Hey honey, you're never going to guess what she tried this time!"   

I'd relay her latest stunts as a stupid story and we'd both laugh, groan, roll our eyes - and let it go - until the next time.

And yeah, there was always a next time -  but I was getting a lot better at not responding at all, and calling as *my* schedule allowed, no matter what crap she was trying to orchestrate. 

Didi had doctors, nurses, good health insurance, ERs, hospitals - all of that stuff at her disposal but the ONE thing she wanted to abuse - me - was conspicuously absent - and stayed that way, until she was dead.

I  didn't have a 25-mile barrier, which sounds absolutely mouth-watering!  I had *three miles!* - but I made those three miles seem like I was on Mars.   

You CAN do this - look around at your wife, your kids, your home, your cats (awww!) - all the good things in your life and think, "THIS is what I'm fighting for.  This is the good fight.  I'm fighting to preserve this - and
I'm going to win."

And dammit, you WILL! 

Please allow yourself to think, "How DARE my father try to ruin another weekend?!  NO!  That's not going to happen!"

Then make it so!   

[Adrianna]

You are getting great advice here, but I know there's a difference between reading it and really letting it sink in.

You've got to stop thinking your dad is going to change and magically become considerate and see your point. He isn't. He won't. He can't. His disorder prevents it.

The only person who can change here is YOU. Let go of any hope that this man is going to care about your time, your job, your family or you. It's not going to happen.

I agree with the others, sit and visit what are you afraid of by reducing contact? Like WI said if he calls the cops, let him. They'll figure it out. They may not the first time, but if he keeps it up they will. He may even get a psych evaluation out of it.

You're being abused and your anger is justified but it's time to do something about it, within YOURSELF, rather than waiting for your father to change.

The answer to this dilemma is in your hands, not your father's.

[Outsiderchild]

I feel I little pit of am imposter posting advice here to P123 as I, too, struggle to make my voice heard with my own PD's.  The advice of just saying "No.". Or "That doesn't work for me," etc is really good.  It is the gold standard of how I wish to behave with my PD's.  Unfortunately I'm not brave enough yet.  It's like I am a little bird at the edge of its nest watching other birds fly. 

So, like in the story of "Dumbo" I am looking for phrases that are the equivalent of the Magic Feather.   If Dumbo held it he believed he could fly and did.  Eventually I will not need my Magic Feather to fly free.  I will just fly.  I get these magic feathers from all the wonderful people who post here. 

1.  You keep repeating yourself, do you remember asking this and what my answer was?  Maybe you should be examined for memory loss. 

2.  I can't help you with this. What does your doctor say?  (Thank you Womam Interrupted for this one!)

3. I don't want to talk about it.  And then I say goodbye and hang up.

4.  That didn't work out before.  How would you behave differently?  (Only the first part of that so far.  Not enough courage to engage with the second one.  Scared to give them the opportunity to wheedle.  But I ask myself this to remind myself she hasn't changed.)

There are others.   I try to review them before any contact now . Someday I will be strong enough to just say no.    Eventually I will deprogram myself from decades of conditioning. Eventually my stomach won't hurt at the thought of not obeying the PD's.   Until then I'm holding on and using them.   This courage thing is hard when you survived by using "freezing" or "fawning." 

[FromTheSwamp]

Like Outsiderchild, I really struggled with this with my PDparents.  The fear was so strong.

I did the same thing - I memorized phrases to use in certain situations.  I even wrote them down and had them in front of me when I made the call. 

I also made a list of things to change the subject to when they tried to steer the conversation places I didn't want it to go. 

It took awhile, but it started to feel almost natural to me, and I'd trained them to expect it (although I'm sure they didn't like it). 

[p123]

Yeh I guess its just me - Im the same with everyone. I hate arguing or having things unresolved. I'm like it with my wife, people in work etc. It plays on my mind that someone is not happy with me.
I dont know why.

Of course, Dad is the master at playing this. I dont seem able to say No because he comes back with why? then all of a sudden I'm jadeing.
Im making excuses etc because its easier.

Im at the point where I'm so mad, I dont care if he doesnt like it. BUT still there is a small 1-2% thinking I am being mean to him - just a niggle.
I guess I just like a quiet life too much and not willing to put in the hard yards so to speak,

[Poison Ivy]

p123, I consider myself to be a good and nice person, and I had to accept that things I did vis-a-vis my ex-spouse and his family might be seen by other people and myself as "not nice" and "not good" and that that was okay.

[WomanInterrupted]

You're not being mean to him - you're putting your foot down and saying, "NO."

You'd do the same thing with your kids - this is no different. 

Except you'd think your father would know better. 

You owe him NO explanation.  You told him no.  He doesn't like it?  He is now OWED an explanation.

"Because I said so..." is perfectly acceptable.

"Because I told you, I can't."  "Because I don't WANT to."  "Asked and answered -next subject."  are all perfectly acceptable responses, so you don't wind up in a circular argument that goes nowhere.

Back to being "mean" to your dad -well, if he weren't so intolerable and unpleasant, you wouldn't have to be, would you?  You'd say, "No" - and he'd say, "Fine." - but he doesn't do that.  He keeps forcing the issue, wanting his way and that's not the kind of  behavior that brings out the best in us!   

We don't feel like we've been kind after these encounters - but we DID do what was necessary in sticking up for ourselves and our FOC's, who will in turn be grateful your father isn't ruining the weekend with his endless bleats - again.

I used to feel that way about Didi - yes I *could* - but I didn't want to, and I didn't want to because she was so *awful.*  If she construed that as "mean" or told others I was "mean" to her?

So be it.  They didn't know the whole story.  They don't walk a mile in my shoes and I realize that not everybody on planet earth is going to be happy with me, 100% of the time.  That's just not possible - especially if making them happy comes at my expense or detriment.

[nanotech]

Yeh I guess its just me - Im the same with everyone. I hate arguing or having things unresolved. I'm like it with my wife, people in work etc. It plays on my mind that someone is not happy with me.
I dont know why.

Of course, Dad is the master at playing this. I dont seem able to say No because he comes back with why? then all of a sudden I'm jadeing.
Im making excuses etc because its easier.

Im at the point where I'm so mad, I dont care if he doesnt like it. BUT still there is a small 1-2% thinking I am being mean to him - just a niggle.
I guess I just like a quiet life too much and not willing to put in the hard yards so to speak,

I read this and I saw my past self. They raised us to be people pleasers.

I also see,

'Dad is the master'

'I don't seem to be able to say no'

When you hear 'why?' from your dad, which you will, answer generally.
I've even said to my dad
' because of this and that.'
Then if he pushed things I repeated it.
'Oh you know, this and that.'
When you first stop JADING and start using assertiveness techniques, it feels like you are driving a car with only three wheels.
You have to use everything you have to reassure yourself that you are safe.
I used/ still use  the toolbox on this website
'what to do/ what not to do  a lot.
I also can recommend a good book on techniques called, ' When I say no I feel guilty.'  by Manuel j Smith
An oldie but a goodie.

General statements - they can't start circular arguments from them. '
That doesn't work for me. I'll ring you. Take care dad gotta go, bye.'
click.

'Hmm I'll think about that. Let me get back to you.'
This is great for killing a rising argument and taking you off the hotspot.  You can get back to him with a big fat no at your leisure, or just don't get back to him. 
I did this with dad, and  nicely avoided taking him to a theatre trip he wanted me ten organise, and paying for him too. He's loads better off than me financially.
He list interest when it wasn't instant gratification for him.  I just smiled then I dragged my feet on arranging it. ( I actually did nothing and didn't get back to him)  and he just never mentioned it again.
I think their obsessions change as easily as their moods.

What you have to get over, is that he's not gonna validate your new behaviour. And that is fine. You don't need it.  He wants to remain in charge of your life so he will fight your efforts to assert yourself. When he ups his game, reward that with ringing less and speaking for a shorter time.
The best you will get is a grudging acceptance. After that, the demands will diminish.
You have to claim your life in the face of their present and future dissent, dislike and disregard.
You have to take it.

[nanotech]

I just want to add my agreement about going for some therapy. I did and it gave me validation on how I had been treated. Then a good therapist can give you tools for self validation and they can point out how you  you should not entertain self- blame or feelings of guilt or of failure. 
Here you are taking on the blame for not being able to deal with your dad!

'It's me.'
It isn't you.
It's him! He's a nightmare.
Why the heck he's got a scooter when he won't use it, is beyond me. I see plenty of older folk whizzing by on them. They are marvellous. If my legs go, I'm getting one!!
I wonder if that's why he never learned to drive? In case he broke down? He can't take responsibility for anything. He's probably secretly amazed at all the things you take in your stride, career, driving, flying for holidays and work, responsible and loving father, good husband who respects his wife.
PDs hate their children to do better than them. It irks them so.
My dad's first reaction to my passing my A levels was a glum face and the comment ' No's you've done better than I did at school. '
First kind in the family to take A levels and pass them and the first thing I had to do was console  my dad's ego so he didn't feel too badly about my achievement.Amid the faint praise I was totally aware I'd hurt him.

You've recognised something is off. Your gut has told you, otherwise you wouldn't be on this website.
But you keep dressing it up as less than it is. In my view, anyway.
So it isn't you. It's just that you are reluctant to risk properly putting down your foot. 

Plenty of elderly parents are annoying. But this is dysfunctional.
I love everyone's comments here. Outsider child touched my heart with the reference to Dumbo and the magic feather. Yes that's it. We think we can't, but we can.
Remember, if he ever were to call the police, it would likely be once.
The police have enough to do. The police know all about crank calls, and wasting police time is an offence.

[p123]

I just want to add my agreement about going for some therapy. I did and it gave me validation on how I had been treated. Then a good therapist can give you tools for self validation and they can point out how you  you should not entertain self- blame or feelings of guilt or of failure. 
Here you are taking on the blame for not being able to deal with your dad!

'It's me.'
It isn't you.
It's him! He's a nightmare.
Why the heck he's got a scooter when he won't use it, is beyond me. I see plenty of older folk whizzing by on them. They are marvellous. If my legs go, I'm getting one!!
I wonder if that's why he never learned to drive? In case he broke down? He can't take responsibility for anything. He's probably secretly amazed at all the things you take in your stride, career, driving, flying for holidays and work, responsible and loving father, good husband who respects his wife.
PDs hate their children to do better than them. It irks them so.
My dad's first reaction to my passing my A levels was a glum face and the comment ' No's you've done better than I did at school. '
First kind in the family to take A levels and pass them and the first thing I had to do was console  my dad's ego so he didn't feel too badly about my achievement.Amid the faint praise I was totally aware I'd hurt him.

You've recognised something is off. Your gut has told you, otherwise you wouldn't be on this website.
But you keep dressing it up as less than it is. In my view, anyway.
So it isn't you. It's just that you are reluctant to risk properly putting down your foot. 

Plenty of elderly parents are annoying. But this is dysfunctional.
I love everyone's comments here. Outsider child touched my heart with the reference to Dumbo and the magic feather. Yes that's it. We think we can't, but we can.
Remember, if he ever were to call the police, it would likely be once.
The police have enough to do. The police know all about crank calls, and wasting police time is an offence.

I guess he never learned to drive for the same reasons - why have to think about it when someone else will drive you. The scooter thing is nuts - he lives literally 100 yards from the town centre. Even if he broke down, he could get a taxi home for next to nothing.

Hes said he'll go out with his cousin whos 3 years younger..... I pointed out that his cousin aint pushing it home if it breaks down. (Been there done that with my wife when she was ill, in florida, pushed it half way across Epcot. I'm not the fittest but I'm a big strong lad and it has not easy!)

So basically, the premise is if it breaks down he doesnt want to deal with it, doesnt want to be the one to ring someone, but his cousin will. To be honest, I think that was his thing with the car all his life. He doesnt want to be the one "in charge" or responsible for anything.

Of course, this has expanded to cover everything now. He doesnt want to have to think AT ALL.

BUT yeh I know all this and I do need to say NO. Think I need some therapy dont I?

[Adrianna]

I've been in therapy for over two years and I can tell you, once you find a good therapist with knowledge of trauma recovery, it's a huge help.

I highly recommend looking into it.

Without her, I might be still catering to the pd people in my life. I also wouldn't have learned what emotional abuse is.

[nanotech]

When I first walked in for therapy and sat down and looked at my therapist smiling at me and welcoming me, I  didn't know where to start or really if I had anything to say.
I thought I would have nothing to tell her. We get used to holding it all in and telling ourselves we can cope. We have to be perfect, right?
A couple of hellos and sips of water. Then I didn't stop talking for the whole session. She just took notes for the first few sessions as I was so pent up with much to tell her. Someone outside the mess and chaos was listening and hearing.

I found that once I had that safe space, everything just came out.  It doesn't matter what order. I started from way back when! We've all got things to talk about from way back when.
It's great to talk to family, but family are themselves affected by the dysfunction. They can be wonderfully supportive but they are not therapists and can't take the full load of our problems, especially if they have received abuse themselves. The family as a whole benefits from the therapy, even if they don't attend. Trickle down effect, and all that. That's what I've found.
As I was talking in the first session, there was a knock at the door, and validation strolled in and put a hand on my shoulder.

If dad wants his cousin to come out with him then maybe don't have an opinion on that. Try having no opinion when he says things like that. It's part of grey rocking. No reaction. Just a bland, 'ok'. That's his stuff not your stuff to ponder on.
Just keep repeating,
' You've got your scooter and insurance, and there's no reason why you can't use it.'
They like to put obstacles in their own way to get what they think they are entitled too, in this case, you as a taxi service.
My sister hated her outdated flat, and being over 60 and on benefits, she was put on the list for a brand new one , all newly refurbished and lovely, in a better area.
Sigh. She turned it down because it had a shower, not a bath. After that she went to the bottom of the list I think. A gorgeous free flat for the rest of her life, but no, not enough.

Not enough not enough not enough.
Then they try to get US to provide what they want. In her case she tried to get me to find her a flat near to us. Then when she went off that idea ( I was suddenly going to become a granny and that would have been  competition for her, plus we might ask her to babysit!)  she twisted my arm up my back to force my dad to take her in to live with him.
They both bully each other. So dad doesn't want her. So I kept out of that. I realised I'd done her bidding for years. Once I stopped, she stopped calling. End of any relationship. It's bullying or it's nothing in my family.

You say that if you don't call he will ring you and ring you ' until I answer,'  You have to be stronger- don't answer. It's harassment. Or put him on voicemail.
My dad gets like this sometimes,  usually before a family event when he's not the centre of attention. If he is the COT at the event then he ignores me!
He's usually got a fake health problem.
I don't pick up.
any more.  I don't answer. I let it go to voicemail. 
Later when I played the voicemail with my adult daughterthere , we heard him mutter,
'Wheeeeere is she?'
She gasped. I had to laugh!  I'm actually at the laughing stage these days. #nopoweroverme
I was getting ready for my Auntie's funeral. I was feeling upset and sad. She passed over very unexpectedly.
I live  the furthest away. Yet it's me that gets the SOS call to pick him up last minute.

Nothing happened  to dad. I answered his call too late to help out and when I pointed this out he still bleated. So I said a big fat no then clicked off. Then left him a voicemail saying to get a taxi. I felt like superwoman.

He was grumpy when he saw me, complained about my 'tone' to husband who politely but firmly shut the complaining down. He couldn't continue, because we were at a funeral. He tried to be frosty but I ignored that  and mingled with everyone else but my immediate family, who all sat in the corner frostily!  I just laughed on the inside, and spoke to my cousins. I really how we all look to the extended family.
I told myself if he complains about me to anyone from extended family and they drop me because of it, then SO BE IT. WTH. Whatever. WTF! It's well worth it for my freedom. Not looking perfect? Fine by me!
I'm not going to be beholden to that bad tempered old man any more.

P123, You can get to this stage. You can.

[p123]

Well he phoned me last night. For a change not so bad.... Ten minutes of moaning about his health (nothing wrong really and I'm not a doctor!)

So I knew it was coming, "are you visiting soon?". So I said "wednesday evening". OK - not too bad suits me.

Dad has got a habit of just saying whats on his mind so he blurts out - "So you'll have to visit me 2-3 times a week AT LEAST now then! OK see you wednesday Bye!"
I didn't even had time to reply.

I have NEVER agreed to that!!!!!! At the moment, I visit probably 3 times a month and he knows it.....

I spoke to him a week or so ago. I should have saved my breath because we've had the same conversation probably 3 times now. The one where I explain I've got other responsibilities. There is no humanly way possible I can visit him twice a week. Not even once to be honest, without neglecting my family.

I am SO MAD at him. I know you all told me so. I'm thinking of it as a positive because its made me so determined now to say NO to this.

[Adrianna]

Once you work through that anger stage, which you will, and have set firm boundaries, with no guilt at saying no, you will see that demand as ridiculous and actually amusing.

"Dad has got a habit of just saying whats on his mind so he blurts out - "So you'll have to visit me 2-3 times a week AT LEAST now then! OK see you wednesday Bye!"
I didn't even had time to reply"

Don't take this the wrong way but I laughed out loud when I read this. Once you get to the other side of the anger, you will see how absolutely absurd and out of touch he is. He's nothing but predictable. He's testing you.

I would have laughed and said "yeah that's not happening! Nice try though."

In all honesty though, this comes through therapy and very very low contact. When I was in the thick of it, with regular communication, I don't think I could have gotten there.

I really feel that you may have to think about seriously reducing contact with your father, maybe even going no contact. It would mean breaking the family ties but sit and think about it. Again, starting therapy can help you with this decision. You're fighting for your freedom and well-being here.

You know you can't continue down this path. Somethings gotta give.