How to get my husband to back me up

[fixingtofix]

So recently it's come to light that my inlaws (uNPDMIL and eFIL) told my kids that if I'm not around, my rules don't matter.  Thankfully my kids know to ignore this noise, but at the same time, took a few months to tell me. The rule is now that my in laws never get to be alone with any of my kids. I don't need this sort of grooming in my life.

Since that revelation, I've been dealing with flashbacks of various ways they've disrespected me for the 15 years my dear husband and I have been together. I have a long list, but suffice to say, each incident makes it seem like I'm just a hyper critical jerk about them, but add them up and you see a pattern. Couple that with the stuff that they do is often without my dh around and they seem nice when he's around, I'm the one who seems to have the problem. 

I'm also super pregnant and ready to give birth any day now and I don't want to give them any access to baby. I don't want them to come and see us after the baby is born, I don't want them in my house after the baby is born, I don't want them around me or my children ever again. This is a total Mama Bear feeling that I've had for years, but it's gotten stronger and stronger over the past few months.

However, when I address this sort of thing to my dh, he tells me that his parents "have always been like this" and "aren't going to change" and that his dad is a jerk to "everyone" so I don't think dh back me up, at all. Dh and I have a great marriage for the most part, but some of our biggest fights have been about his parents. He's not a big fan of them, but thinks that he's obligated to be around them/help them out from time to time. Other background, I went NC with my own mother when I realized that my mom was using me as an emotional dumping ground and how that in turn was causing me major issues. What my mom was doing was subtle and didn't involve my kids, what my in laws did was not subtle and involved my kids.

So could/would you guys help me out with some wording to use with my husband to show him that my feelings/emotions matter and that I can no longer sacrifice myself for the needs of his PD parents? Yes, I can handle my emotions, be the bigger person, suck it up, but I shouldn't have to. (Am I wrong here, because if I am, tell me that too )

[SheKnowsBest]

Oh fixingtofix, I can totally relate. (((Hugs))) mama. The little things really do begin to add up, don't they? That being said, begin small with  your drawing new lines. I had to and didn't even realize I was doing it. Ex: When DD2 was born, I asked for a two week period without visitors so that our family could adjust. UNMil didn't like that one bit, but DH didn't argue. He understood how important  it was to all mesh as a family before the outside relatives set up camp. Begin with a boundary that protects the FOC circle. Then you can get a little space and figure out how you want to proceed. I found the less I was part of the codependent relationship between my DH and UNMil, the more DH noticed her behaviors and the less patience he had for them. He withdrew, she escalated, he withdrew more... it got ugly before it got better, but the relative peace we have now with cox on DHs part, NC on my part is life changing.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Well if you can always expect them to be nasty to you and undermine your parenting, you're even more justified in saying you've had enough in my humble opinion. Your DH is making arguments in your favor.

Questions I've asked my DH that were ultimately very productive: Whose feelings are being protected/considered here? Why do that person's feelings take precedence? Is that reasonable? What is actually our duty and responsibility?

Beginning small might work, but it definitely didn't for me. One little pushback sent the whole house of cards into collapse, on both sides of the Pd family. If it does, it isn't your fault.

[all4peace]

One incredibly useful tool I gained in therapy was a way of naming and identifying a loss. You cannot make your DH back you up. You can request it, but obviously he can choose not to. But what you can still do is identify the loss of that. And you can name it and ask him to acknowledge it.

For example:

you: When your father speaks to me like (name specific way), I feel attacked and hurt. I would like for you to please step in and protect me as your wife.
him: That's just my dad. You know that. He's never going to change.
you: I understand that's the way he has behaved for a long time. I'm asking you to protect me and our unborn child by letting your dad know his behavior is no longer acceptable.
him: (arrrrgh!) (possible retreat, stonewalling, defensiveness)
you: I know this is really difficult for you, and I'm sorry for that. I want to know that you, my mate, the father of my children, have my back.
him: (more stonewalling? more defensiveness? leaves the room?)


you (much later): I need you to know that this is not what I dreamed of for our marriage. I wanted our children to see their mother loved and protected. I wanted to feel safe. Instead I feel like I'm taking blows from your parents and it is deeply hurting me. I understand you may not choose to change, but I need you to know how badly it hurts.
him (hopefully lots of internal processing, thought, difficult emotional turmoil)

I think it can take a lot of time. I really do believe that our culture has trained out of men the desire to protect and defend their families. It may take time. And although it is very, very hard, try to stay calm and respectful and loving through the process. I wasn't and I made it so much worse because of that.

If you get to the point where you really can't handle it, then simply let him know that. I reached a point of anxiety where I simply could not attend every family function, and so missed a couple. After a couple really-not-fun family gatherings without me as buffer and connector and smoother-over, DH refused to go by himself any longer. Not long after we finally started developing solid boundaries for our family. It can be a really long and painful process, but it's worth it in the end. Our home is now very much a place of safety and peace.

And congrats on the new one about to arrive! Protect your peace!

[fixingtofix]

Thank you all for help with the wording and letting me know I'm not crazy. A few months ago we had a pretty big fight with me ugly crying because I couldn't get my point across and my husband shutting down. I don't deserve to be stared at like I have three heads when I speak, especially in my own house. I haven't brought them up much, except to point out some manipulation my MIL tried to pull at Easter. (Where we told her many times that we were not going anywhere for Easter beyond church. She called two days before and invited us to an egg hunt. Nope. Well can you come for dessert? Nope. How about just swing by to say hi? Nope.) I told him that was manipulation and boundary stomping. He seemed to get it.

So gentle, I guess and lots of deep breaths.

[Starboard Song]

The rule is now that my in laws never get to be alone with any of my kids. I don't need this sort of grooming in my life.

I'm also super pregnant and ready to give birth any day now and I don't want to give them any access to baby. I don't want them to come and see us after the baby is born, I don't want them in my house after the baby is born, I don't want them around me or my children ever again. This is a total Mama Bear feeling that I've had for years, but it's gotten stronger and stronger over the past few months.

However, when I address this sort of thing to my dh, he tells me that his parents "have always been like this" and "aren't going to change" and that his dad is a jerk to "everyone."

So I am hearing several things here. Your in-laws directly undercut your parenting authority, and do so behind your back.
This must end.
    -- It sounds like you and DH agree that they may not have unsupervised visits.

Separately, you are slowly coming to perceive a pattern of small but predictable slights to you as an individual.
This, too, must end.
    -- It sounds like you and your husband agree about this pattern: he forthrightly says his dad will never change.
    -- It sounds like you and your husband agree that this pattern is wrong: he characterizes this as "jerk"  behavior.

You believe the only way to change it is to go nearly NC. DH believes NC is too extreme, maybe immoral.
There's the rub.

I myself am nearly 4 years NC with my in-laws, and that meant that I cut off all correspondence between them and my DS16 (then 12). That said, I don't believe every NC decision is sacred or self-validating. That is, maybe NC is the right course for you. Maybe MC is the right course. We of course cannot tell.

In any case, you asked for words of persuasion. I encourage you to not start with the conclusion but with the premises.

Present your husband with just 4 classic examples of inapppropriate behavior.
   -- Do we agree this was wrong?
   -- How did this behavior make us feel?
   -- Is this an example we want for our children?
 
Consider with your husband how pervasive this behavior is.
   -- Is it immediate and consistent?
   -- Are there often visits where nothing bad comes up?

Agree -- for the sake of argument -- that NC is drastic, and address how boundaries might prevent further misbehavior.
   -- You already will no longer allow unsupervised visits: that prevents undermining of your parenting
   -- Maybe certain types of snide comment are no longer to be smiled at, but will be politely called out.
   -- Maybe you each agree that any objection to benig called out will earn them immediate dismissal from any visit, at any time: even right in the middle of dinner. "Dad, as I said a moment ago, I am proud of how fixingtofix handled that, and your comment was inappropriate. Not another word, Dad, or I will expect you to leave my home." (with such calm command)

If DH can agree to boundaries that protect you and your family, you could try them first. If they work, huzzah! If they don't, you will have paved a road directly to the doorstep of VLC or NC, and it will be one your DH can better understand.

In the meantime, the discussion above is a ground-up way to explain your feelings, which deserve respect.

Good luck. These are not easy situations. Whatever path you take, please be ever so kind to yourself.

[Penny Lane]

Wow, this is a master class in "I" statements! Thanks all4peace, I'm going to try to internalize the philosophy behind this even though this isn't my exact situation.

you: When your father speaks to me like (name specific way), I feel attacked and hurt. I would like for you to please step in and protect me as your wife.
him: That's just my dad. You know that. He's never going to change.
you: I understand that's the way he has behaved for a long time. I'm asking you to protect me and our unborn child by letting your dad know his behavior is no longer acceptable.
him: (arrrrgh!) (possible retreat, stonewalling, defensiveness)
you: I know this is really difficult for you, and I'm sorry for that. I want to know that you, my mate, the father of my children, have my back.
him: (more stonewalling? more defensiveness? leaves the room?)


you (much later): I need you to know that this is not what I dreamed of for our marriage. I wanted our children to see their mother loved and protected. I wanted to feel safe. Instead I feel like I'm taking blows from your parents and it is deeply hurting me. I understand you may not choose to change, but I need you to know how badly it hurts.
him (hopefully lots of internal processing, thought, difficult emotional turmoil)

Also, I would add to what Starboard Song says, if you decide on a course of action, it doesn't have to be permanent. A lot of dealing with PD, I've found, is a trial and error process of finding the best strategy/boundaries for your situation. This means you could say, we need to go NC for the first a month after the baby is born and then start slowly introducing the ILs. Or the other way around, you could agree with your DH on some new boundaries for your ILs with the agreement that you'll revisit them to see if they're working in six months. Or some other temporary fix. You're going through a lot of change and stress right now (good change and stress! but nonetheless a lot) and it might be best if you don't try to make permanent decisions immediately. You'll have more energy to devote to finding compromises later on down the road. I suggest you both do what you need to do to get through the time from now until the new baby settles in, and then try to find some broader solutions after that.

[chowder]

First, congratulations, fixing, on the imminent new arrival!

I had a similar situation - my FIL's disrespectful/boorish behavior was always written off as "that's the way he is."  He himself would even say, "Ah, you know I love ya," and then try to get away with whatever he spewed forth.  He felt it was my fault for reacting the way I did.

My concern for you is, if there is disrespect for you that is tolerated under the guise of "that's the way they've always been," why should that behavior be any different towards your little ones?  That's not a way of interacting that you want them to pick up on.

DH did not back me up when these treatments would occur.  Some would happen when he was not present, and if I told him about it later he was annoyed.  I think he wished the actions and the resulting discomfort would just go away.  Additionally, no one was bringing it to his attention the way I was, a family newcomer/outsider with a new view.

We were at ILs' house one time years ago, and DD was two.  She climbed into my lap at the dinner table.  FIL jumped in with his gruff tone, yelling, "There ya go, go ahead, climb into your mother's lap, you're nothin' but a little baby!"  It was snide, nasty, degrading and sarcastic.

Well, that did it.  I said right then and there, in front of everyone, to DH, "Now you know why I don't like to come here."

MIL got very upset at the situation.  After we left, their phone lines burned up and the whole family knew about the incident.  I held no regrets...perhaps that's the price you pay for letting things go on too long.

So there.  It was out in the open.  Not exactly textbook, but I had had more than enough.  Bad enough he would attack me, but now he's doing it to my child, who can't discern if he's joking or being sarcastic or whatever.  She just knows she's getting yelled at in an ugly way.  Everyone else accepted his rudeness as "Oh, that's just Pop."  But this was so offensive to my sensibilities.

DH got FIL to apologize to me, and of course within that was the statement "Ah, you know I love you and I'm just kidding."  I told him no, not really, I haven't been in this family for 50 years and am not used to that kind of treatment, and my 2-year-old certainly doesn't understand it.

I guess the words I was speaking to DH all along fell on deaf ears, but the actions certainly got him to sit up and take notice.

I can't say IL behavior changed, but our reception of it did due to LC.

Abuse of you in any form - veiled as humor or otherwise - cannot be tolerated.  DH should back you up 100%.   Perhaps revisiting the marriage vows will bring back who is first in his life/family now.  At the very least, I would go NC for the time being after the baby is born.

Good luck!

[sharkey]

I have been going through this too!  So many abusive, mean comments by FIL and husband just dismisses them outright "that's who he is" "he doesn't mean anything by it."
When his father has made inappropriate statements to me in front of my husband, he says he didn't notice.
When I tell him privately that his father did something when my husband wasn't there, he dismisses me and says that's my version and then tells me it means his dad cares about me.
I've also been dismissed as not having a sense of humor or that it's my fault for taking it the wrong way.


We've now been to some marriage counseling. At first I didn't think it was working but something clicked in the last session. We do have a long way to go but here's my thoughts so far.

I now realize:
My husband equates abusive behavior from his parents towards myself and him with love.
He thinks that verbal abuse and inappropriate behavior towards me means his dad loves and cares about me.
This explains why he dismisses a lot of this outright and doesn't see it as wrong, as well as why he doesn't stand up for me. (why would he stand up for me when his dad is expressing "loving behavior"?)
Unless he can somehow recognize this behavior is wrong, he will not be able to stand up for me in the moment, but this is like having to rewire his whole brain so this will take a very very long time and a solid commitment on his part. 
I need incredible patience because this is my husband's own reaction/denial to abuse even though he doesn't think he was abused.

He does realize that our marriage is in jeopardy if I feel he cannot protect me from his family. So therefore this is what he is working on (I have my own things I'm working on):

He is trying to notice something that might bother me so he can step in. Because he generally doesn't recognize this behavior as wrong, I will need to point it out to him and be more verbal when it happens.
He has made a promise that if I give a signal to him or speak up that he will stand up for me even if he doesn't understand why or agree with me.
If he disagrees with me about why he was standing up for me, we will discuss in private.
It's important that he takes the lead in these situations with his parents.

I hope this helps you, too!