I'm doing it! But looking for recommendations.

[haribo_milchbaren]

I have an appointment for a consultation with a lawyer this morning. I'm not so much concerned about this appointment as I am about extricating myself from this marriage. We own a home together, that currently contains most of my belongings (I'm staying with a friend), I have seen them turn very nasty to people who anger them, and they have even told me before "you should be afraid if I'm angry, but don't worry, you don't make me angry", and they have spoken of suicide when I even mentioned the thought of leaving once.

I am unsure of what order to do things in. Ideally I would remove my belongings from the home first, then break the news to them, though it would be pretty apparent why my stuff was gone and I fear a rage or self harm before I could break the news later. But if I do it the opposite way, I am not sure if my belongings would be safe, and I might deal with the same rage/self-harm issue anyway. They have never done anything to my or others belongings before, so maybe I could assume that they'd be safe, but I am not 100% certain about that. Either way I am pretty sure I need to bring someone with me. Maybe I can bring someone who can stay in the other room when I break the news as backup?

I'm not sure my friends and even my therapist understand the fear I'm having over this. Maybe I am overreacting and nothing bad will actually happen and they'll leave me be? When I left for my friend's they were so depressed as to be almost non-responsive. I am afraid that if that happens I may feel enough guilt to not go through with it. I need a plan.

[Boat Babe]

You do need a plan and that plan is all about you.  Ok in order of importance: How you stay safe. How you get your stuff out. How you protect your finances. How you manage the legalities to of the divorce process.  You probably need legal advice for most of that and a good support system for the personal safety aspect, which can include Domestic Violence agencies if you feel the need. Equally important to all this is that you look after your emotional and mental health during this period. Self care is ESSENTIAL and again, DV agencies/charities often provide this. You don't have to have been physically hurt to access their services as emotional abuse/coercive control etc is recognized as Domestic Abuse.

You may notice that I have not mentioned you STBX. This is because whatever he chooses to do, as an adult, in a divorce process is his problem and not yours. He threatens suicide?  Call the relevant authorities and let them deal with him. He gets depressed? Then he needs to see a doctor and do his own self care.  There's being kind to a person that you're leaving and then there's having your emotions manipulated by someone that you're leaving do that you cave in. Two very different things. Divorce is rarely easy and straightforward, even between two emotionally healthy people. With a person with a PD it's always going to be more difficult. That's why you strap in for a rough ride with your eye on the ultimate prize: a life free of drama, negativity and abuse. No one needs that shit.

Keep talking to us as you go through this difficult time.

[haribo_milchbaren]

You do need a plan and that plan is all about you.  Ok in order of importance: How you stay safe. How you get your stuff out. How you protect your finances. How you manage the legalities to of the divorce process.  You probably need legal advice for most of that and a good support system for the personal safety aspect, which can include Domestic Violence agencies if you feel the need. Equally important to all this is that you look after your emotional and mental health during this period. Self care is ESSENTIAL and again, DV agencies/charities often provide this. You don't have to have been physically hurt to access their services as emotional abuse/coercive control etc is recognized as Domestic Abuse.

You may notice that I have not mentioned you STBX. This is because whatever he chooses to do, as an adult, in a divorce process is his problem and not yours. He threatens suicide?  Call the relevant authorities and let them deal with him. He gets depressed? Then he needs to see a doctor and do his own self care.  There's being kind to a person that you're leaving and then there's having your emotions manipulated by someone that you're leaving do that you cave in. Two very different things. Divorce is rarely easy and straightforward, even between two emotionally healthy people. With a person with a PD it's always going to be more difficult. That's why you strap in for a rough ride with your eye on the ultimate prize: a life free of drama, negativity and abuse. No one needs that shit.

Keep talking to us as you go through this difficult time.

Thank you so much for your reply. This along with seeing a lawyer and my therapist yesterday help put things into real perspective. I have steps to work on a multi-prong plan now. The lawyer was actually shocked and tried to tell me how f'd up my situation was and I had to tell them yes yes, I'm very aware, this is exactly why I'm seeing you, just please give me advice. And I actually told them very little comparatively, just mainly a brief background on some of the problems and about our financial situation since that is going to be the main problem (we have no children, thank all the deities for that).

I strangely woke up in an excellent mood yesterday for the first time in YEARS, and realized I was humming and smiling. I mean, I am prone to anxiety and depression and I am not a morning person and so that shocked me. I was feeling calm and happy. On the morning I went to see a divorce lawyer. I was discussing with a friend solo travel ideas and getting excited. That made it crystal clear to me that I'm making the correct decision. But I anticipate this is this calm before the storm.

You mentioned DV agencies/charities can offer help. What sort of help? I'm not really sure what I could even ask for at this point so any pointers at all are helpful.

[Boat Babe]

Google the nearest one and phone them. They should take it from there.

[blunk]

If there is even the slightest concern for you safety, please remember that you do not have to tell them face to face. One of the most dangerous times in a relationship is when you are trying to leave. Though my bpdxh never physically abused me, he had said things over the years that made me believe that the potential was there. Them saying things like "you should be afraid if I'm angry..." concerns me greatly.

Have you completed the MOSAIC Risk Assessment? It is a tool to help predict the likelihood of an individual becoming violent. As I said, my x was never physical, yet he did score high.
https://www.mosaicmethod.com/

As for the order of operations. I would remove as many important personal items as possible before asking for divorce. Things like valuables, family heirlooms, personal documents, financial statements. Practical items such as clothing and household items can be gotten later or replaced if going back to get them would risk your safety. In my case, I remained in the house. When my x came to get the bulk of his belongings he was very nasty, and at one point threw a hand-truck down the basement stairs, nearly hitting the furnace. I told him then and there (and I was only so brave because he had others with him and would not act out in front of them) that this was the last time he would be coming to the house and that he had better get everything he wanted.

He later tried to contact me to get some additional items. A the suggestion of a friend, I contacted the local police to see about an escort. They told me that to utilize an on-duty officer I would have to be present, and that there was a 30 minute time limit. However, if I wanted to hire an off-duty officer I would not need to be present, and could provide a list of items that he was allowed to remove from the home. The officer I spoke to even offered to act as a go-between, because I was not comfortable speaking to him. When I spoke to the officer again he said that my x was shocked that I wanted to involve the police, and that he had decided he no longer wanted those items.

I know that yours is a different situation, but it is likely that you could also hire an escort to go with you to retrieve your items when the time comes, or even provide a list if you do not wish to see them face to face.

Good luck to you, and stay safe.

[haribo_milchbaren]

If there is even the slightest concern for you safety, please remember that you do not have to tell them face to face. One of the most dangerous times in a relationship is when you are trying to leave. Though my bpdxh never physically abused me, he had said things over the years that made me believe that the potential was there. Them saying things like "you should be afraid if I'm angry..." concerns me greatly.

Have you completed the MOSAIC Risk Assessment? It is a tool to help predict the likelihood of an individual becoming violent. As I said, my x was never physical, yet he did score high.

As for the order of operations. I would remove as many important personal items as possible before asking for divorce. Things like valuables, family heirlooms, personal documents, financial statements. Practical items such as clothing and household items can be gotten later or replaced if going back to get them would risk your safety. In my case, I remained in the house. When my x came to get the bulk of his belongings he was very nasty, and at one point threw a hand-truck down the basement stairs, nearly hitting the furnace. I told him then and there (and I was only so brave because he had others with him and would not act out in front of them) that this was the last time he would be coming to the house and that he had better get everything he wanted.

He later tried to contact me to get some additional items. A the suggestion of a friend, I contacted the local police to see about an escort. They told me that to utilize an on-duty officer I would have to be present, and that there was a 30 minute time limit. However, if I wanted to hire an off-duty officer I would not need to be present, and could provide a list of items that he was allowed to remove from the home. The officer I spoke to even offered to act as a go-between, because I was not comfortable speaking to him. When I spoke to the officer again he said that my x was shocked that I wanted to involve the police, and that he had decided he no longer wanted those items.

I know that yours is a different situation, but it is likely that you could also hire an escort to go with you to retrieve your items when the time comes, or even provide a list if you do not wish to see them face to face.

Good luck to you, and stay safe.

Whew, okay, so I intended to tell them tomorrow over FaceTime but they kept putting on more pressure to tell me what was going on over text because "they are very concerned". I told them let's talk tomorrow afternoon. I am tired and have been in calls all afternoon. More pressure. I finally said "I needed space and time. I don't want you out of the house. Let's talk tomorrow" (they keep mentioning that they want to know if I want them out). I have basically no experience with MC and  was hoping this would work. However it didn't. They said "So...you are leaving me".  I was frantically texting back and forth with my best friend on wtf to say. I finally decided on "I am still figuring things out" but that obviously didn't change anything. Then they texted my nonPD parent to tell them that I had been ignoring them for three weeks (false, it has been two weeks, and I have told them that I need time and space three times and to please respect that. I have given updates about myself that I am well when they mentioned that they love me and are very worried about me. I have replied to every text they have sent in a timely manner) and that they would like to know what's going on with me because they think that I want a divorce. Thankfully nonPD parent texted me immediately that this happened and they will not reply. I was shocked. Mostly because I realized they have done this a lot - distort the truth only slightly so that it is very believable, but enough to make things sound quite different than what they actually are.

I have not asked for divorce yet, but I think the cat is out of the bag now. Most of my personal items are still at my home, and I regrettably also left my passport there (although perhaps this can be replaced - I didn't think of it).

I just completed the MOSAIC. They scored higher than I thought they would. I'm not certain what to do now as they seem to know that I want to leave them. I have no evidence whatsoever that things will turn violent to show to any authorities. I don't believe that they would be physically violent as they never have been in the past, even as much as slamming doors and such, always just on the manipulative side. I just feel uneasy.

[haribo_milchbaren]

Upon more reflection, I'm going to contact the nearest DV agency to get advice. Since STBX doesn't know the address where I'm staying and I will do the call over video, I feel safe doing so. I will record the video (going to check if I can legally do so without his consent) and begin writing down any other non-textual interactions.

[Boat Babe]

Do it.

[haribo_milchbaren]

I did it. Thankfully no signs of violence or self harm, just a great amount of DARVO (I think that's the right term). They say they are going to nail me in the proceedings. For my part I can't sleep wondering if there was a way I could have avoided this ending so poorly. They asked why I didn't bring it up before and why I wasn't willing to try marriage counseling first. Lots of blame blame blame, you hold all the power etc. Feeling really low right now. May make a fresh post to ask for guidance in trying not to believe all the things they said.

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

My first few thoughts after reading your post.....

Congratulations, well done.

And, your soon to be ex, will most likely throw out a lot of threats, false allegations, etc....  just remember this is a temper tantrum.   My ex was so good at this, I would believe him or react to his comments. 

If I could go back in time, I'd tell myself to breath and then breath again.  I had much more control than I thought I did.  Overall, I did a pretty good job.  Even being Out of the FOG, I was still "trauma bonded" and my brain was wired to react to him.  It's taken time but it's a million times better now.

Find your supports, take care of yourself, and hold on because it will be a difficult ride but well worth it

[blunk]

Please know that you are doing the right thing. My bpdxh also made all kinds of threats and accusations when I asked for a divorce. He also asked for marriage counseling, but after reading the advice on this site I knew that there were no positive results to be gained from that.

I was lucky in that he did not have the money to hire a lawyer, so I made a (more than) fair offer and he agreed.

Please keep in mind, you are not obligated to respond to any of their messages. This is especially true when you have already stated that you need time/space to figure things out. If you wish to respond, maybe set aside a particular time of day to do so, and for the rest of the day silence their calls/messages.

And keep sharing, there is such a wealth of knowledge, experience, and support to draw from here.

[hhaw]

H:

You're stbx will likely fluctuate between polar opposite moods.....crying, promising to change, threatening, damaging property and may be violence towards you and of course, blaming you for everything.

Divorce with a PD is a double bind and you do well to release any expectation of controlling the PD's feelings and actions, bc you can't.

Wishing things could have gone better is a waste of time and creates suffering, ime.

Accepting things have to go poorly, get messy and drag out is much more helpful and leads to planning and sticking to the plan, ime.

I'm glad you have friends and support, bc you need them.

Distancing the PD.....going through attorneys.....limiting his physical presence and ability to access you by phone will help you remember your strength and true self, ime.

You owe him nothing....he squandered his chances when you were willing to work on the marriage.

It's too late now and he didn't change before, bc he can't.

He's broken. 

No need to assign blame.  It's time to document and keep divorce priceedings moving toward the exit door once begun.

Don't let the PD side track you or your attorney.

Hold the PD's feet to every possible fire and for Pete's sake cancel Nothing on the PD's promise.  Keep every hearing, deposition, restraining order and trial date IN PLACE and require the PD do what's promised BEFORE cancelling anything, ime.

Always take a friend with you if meeting with the PD.

Remember to take our filters with you to court. 

You're doing fine.

[InTheDragonsDen]

Congratulations Haribo. Stay safe and enjoy life.

[hhaw]

How'ya doing Haribo?

[haribo_milchbaren]

Thanks for checking in hhaw. I am honestly just feeling depressed and haven't been checking Out of the FOG since before the holidays. I'm still on leave from work (mental health/stress), collecting short term disability, but as I pay for literally everything still and my things are all at my house, I haven't been able to find someplace permanent to live yet. I might need to go live at my non PD parent's place in a different province for a little bit. There's an emergency court hearing called by STBX's lawyer later this month to secure interim support for STBX because I cancelled STBX's copy of my credit card and I guess it scared STBX. My lawyer is on vacation this week though, so I need to wait till she is back to talk about strategy. I'm honestly just feeling lonely too. The holidays are so hard and it's easy to get sucked into the memories of the good times. 

[hhaw]

Keep breathing, H.  Long deep breaths of free air.  This will be over.  What do you want for yourself?  What are your interests? 

Do things you love to do.  Take walks in nature, use lovely bath salts......connect with someone you've missed.

You're going to feel better soon....in starts and stutters. 

Before you know it, you'll adjust and adapt to living PD free.

Trust things get better.

Trust and honor yourself.  Invest in undaunted self compassion, drop judgment and get very curious instead.

It's going to be ok.