In hospital - stay NC?

[Sidney37]

I go months doing so well and then they do something that makes me so reactive.  So my enD is legitimately in the hospital for something serious.  The flying monkeys who I expected 3-5 years ago never contacted me then, but they are coming out of the woodwork now.  Some have been kind and left messages to inform me that enD is in the hospital and why. It sounds like maybe he's going to recover with surgery. Some are very guilt trippy. 

Today my PDm got a hold of another relative's phone.  I almost answered the call.  Thank goodness I didn't.  She left a guilt trippy message about how I should have compassion and call him.  How could i be this way?  It was her mean, shaming, guilt tripping self and much of the reason we are NC. 

Has anyone re-established contact with an enabling parent who is sick, in the icu or dying and not regretted it?  If it was her, I'd never consider reaching out.  This feels terrible... There seems to be no right answer to keep me emotionally safe and not looking like a huge jerk.

[moglow]

Don't think of how you look to her or anyone else and don't buy a ticket on the guilt trips. You have no need of or use for the guilt trippy or barrage of other messages.

How do you FEEL? What do YOU want? Do that instead. Maybe call the hospital and ask to speak to a nurse on his floor. Tell them who you are and briefly, I'm not in contact with the maternal unit. Please tell my dad that I love him and called to see how he's doing. They may or may not be able to tell you anything, but you've made the contact that you can. Cry if you have to - they've seen and heard it before, I guarantee.

Here with you - and I hope he's better soon.

[Blueberry Pancakes]

I am sorry to hear this and I hope he recovers soon.

I did re-establish contact with an enabling parent because he was ill last year, and in some ways I regretted it and in others did not.
 
I regretted it because nobody acknowledged my time and energy I supplied to the situation. It was a condition that evolved over one month. I knew nobody would appreciate my acts, but it still stung a bit. My overall status in the family did not improve. My relationships with extended family and friends did not improve either. When it was clear he would recover, I went back to NC and VVVVLC and status-quo resumed. It was an isolated block of time that had no benefit to me. It did however satisfy my curiosity, and did allow me to exercise my boundary skills when others tried to engage me into other aspects which I did not respond. 

I think others may continue to see you as they choose regardless of what you do. I agree as stated to do what YOU feel like you want. Do it for you, and you do not have to explain that to anyone. 

[Leonor]

Yes. Stay NC.

Here's why:

1. In healthy families, communication is clear: "Dad had chest pains and Mom took him to the doctor. They recommended a bypass. He is scheduled for Thursday. The recovery rate is pretty high, and the doctor says he should be released in a week or so."

In your family, the communication is unclear. Either your father is dying or he'll be fine in a few weeks. This lack of clarity is designed to inspire fear. It is manipulative. It is dishonest.

2. In healthy families, relatives offer information, reassurance, and support. "Hi Sidney, I'm so sorry to hear about your Dad. I'm sure he'll be back home soon, but is there anything I can do for you in the meantime to make these days a little easier for you?"

Your family, on the other hand, is treating your father's hospital stay as an opportunity - an opportunity to abuse you with fear and guilt and obligation.

3. We are not supposed to diagnose, but I will bet dime for dollar that dear old dad is living it up as the center of attention after so many decades of being overshadowed by his domineering wife. I would go so far as to suggest that many parents we usually let off the hook as a fellow victim (as if a grown adult could ever be a victim on the same level as a powerless little child!) or enabler of the overtly disordered parent are actually covertly disordered themselves. If Dad is well enough to receive phone calls, he's dang well enough to make them.

Also, and this will sound like the most heartless thing, but I say it in order to offer us a sliver of emotional freedom: death is part of life. Your dad is not the only person in the hospital, and so many families all over the world are suffering from the loss of their loved ones. When your dad passes, whether next week or in many years, your responsibility is to yourself as a humane, human being, to honor your experience with him in all its complexity, to hold yourself in compassion, to accept the reality of his loss. Not to sacrifice yourself to your family as the emotional punching bag.

This is the freedom and clarity that NC can bring. Stay grounded in clarity, freedom, and compassion.

[bloomie]

Sidney37 - I am really sorry your dad is unwell and the chaos that is surrounding it. I am thankful a few of your family members have been measured and informational in their messages with you.

If your father is indeed in a hospital he has a level of care you clearly cannot offer. If your father is surrounded by your mother and sibs or family members, then you father has support from family.

So, it seems it comes down to what is best for you and your dad. Between just the two of you. What is most important to you in this moment and situation? Letting everything else drop away, the false guilt trips, shaming and opportunistic call from your mother, what is left that matters the most to you? What do you hold in your heart and hand that you would like to extend to your dad?

Sometimes, due to circumstances beyond our control, the most loving, caring thing we can offer is our prayers and some kind of gesture that would mean something to you both that takes the flying monkeys out of the middle.

Can you send a card to the hospital? Can you send him a book you know he would love, or ??? Can you slip in early when no one else is there and see him one on one? If something like that is no, or would be too risky, then what you can offer him that is truly loving is your prayers and thoughts for healing and recovery. And that is a lot! That matters on the soul level and even if you cannot let him know, you will know you are honoring him and loving him how you can.

Your father's illness is his. It belongs to him no matter your mother is attempting to co-opt it to emotionally bully you back into her presence. Your choice of response is yours. 100% yours. No matter your mother's attempt to coerce and control you emotionally through your father's illness.

Hold strong and search your heart and you will know what is best and right. And we will be here as you find your way!

[Sidney37]

Thanks all.  My understanding was that it is cardiac related and required surgery.  If it was a pacemaker which one relative speculated before the final visit by the doctor, I read that is a minor surgery.  My PDm sent messages that it was heart surgery and implied that it was more serious than a pace maker.  She exaggerates everything for attention. The surgery was supposedly yesterday.  I decided to respond to one somewhat distant cousin's wife, who while sometimes verbally a bit pushy (but has had a job that sort of needed that personality),she has reached out whenever any family issues have happened (deaths, hopitalizattions, etc.) thinking that I'd want to hear from someone before I read it on social media.  Since she has been relatively kind, I thanked her and told her that I hoped everyone in her family was well and I appreciated the update.  I wasn't sure if its was a mistake or a trick or not.

I didn't hear back from her or from anyone after the surgery yesterday.  And to me that feels abusive and manipulative, too.  All the drama and fuss that I needed to call him before the surgery, but no update after the surgery.  It's the same attitude that if I can't do what they say when they say it, I don't need to know what is going on.  Once I didn't call for an 48 hours in college and she didn't tell me for 2 weeks that my dad's aunt died.  She said that if I couldn't be bothered to call her (2x a day every day at an exact time) then she couldn't be bothered to tell me that someone died.  She tried the same when my grandmother (who I was very close to) was at the end of her life and I was living out of town.  If I didn't call 2xs a day then she wouldn't tell me if my grandmother died. She suggested that I start reading the online obituaries to see if anyone I cared about had died.  It's manipulative, abusive and part of thee reason I am NC.

Don't think of how you look to her or anyone else and don't buy a ticket on the guilt trips. You have no need of or use for the guilt trippy or barrage of other messages.

How do you FEEL? What do YOU want? Do that instead.

Thanks Moglow.  It's hard not to think about what others think.  We were raised that way and it's hard not to.  I'm working on it though.  It's a constant struggle, but I'm better that I was 5 years ago.

How do I feel?  Like I can't talk to him without her drama and that's the consequence he and I pay for being related to her.  I'm sad that he's in the hospital, but angry that he chose to believe her guilt trips, gaslighting and lies. He chose her but that's what husbands sometimes do.  I don't think I can reach out and keep myself safe from her belittling and nastiness.

My overall status in the family did not improve. My relationships with extended family and friends did not improve either. When it was clear he would recover, I went back to NC and VVVVLC and status-quo resumed. It was an isolated block of time that had no benefit to me. It did however satisfy my curiosity, and did allow me to exercise my boundary skills when others tried to engage me into other aspects which I did not respond. 

I think others may continue to see you as they choose regardless of what you do. I agree as stated to do what YOU feel like you want. Do it for you, and you do not have to explain that to anyone. 

Thanks Blueberry.  That's the thing.  I think that somehow if I reach out that I will get the 40+ years of love and protection that I should have gotten from him.  I won't.  I know I won't.  I think that somehow my relationships with extended family might improve.  But your experience is probably what I should expect... no change in those relationships.  I think there is a good chance that I will actually get a lot of "well you'd know X or have experienced Y if you hadn't stopped talking to us for years".  I think in some ways there is no going back.  I'm glad you pointed out that my other relationships might not improve.  Thank you for that. And I'm not in a place that I want to practice my boundary skills right now.  I'm still to fragile, years later. 

1. In healthy families, communication is clear: "Dad had chest pains and Mom took him to the doctor. They recommended a bypass. He is scheduled for Thursday. The recovery rate is pretty high, and the doctor says he should be released in a week or so."
In your family, the communication is unclear. Either your father is dying or he'll be fine in a few weeks. This lack of clarity is designed to inspire fear. It is manipulative. It is dishonest.

Yes!!  This is exactly what I was feeling but put into words.  I think that's why I responded to the cousin's wife.  She is a nurse and said almost exactly this.  Your dad was having X symptoms.  He' been in the hospital since X.  Right now they are saying they are going to do X procedure.  The typical risks of X procedure are Y.  I know person X, Y and Z who have had that done.  That's healthy and clear communication.  It's not what I get from my parents or the other flying monkeys born into our family. I get unclear communication to make me fearful, get into line and to manipulate me.  It's been the case for years and that makes sense as to why they do it. 

2. In healthy families, relatives offer information, reassurance, and support. "Hi Sidney, I'm so sorry to hear about your Dad. I'm sure he'll be back home soon, but is there anything I can do for you in the meantime to make these days a little easier for you?"

Your family, on the other hand, is treating your father's hospital stay as an opportunity - an opportunity to abuse you with fear and guilt and obligation.

Thank you for this.  I can't imagine a time that I would EVER get this kind of message from anyone in my family.  There is no support.  They typically use these situations to make other people feel guilty.  And I find it so telling that I responded to the cousin that I appreciated the update, but it's been over 24 hours since the surgery and I've heard nothing from anyone.  They are expecting me to reach out and ask and then make one of their usual snide comments that I would know what was going on if I had contacted them in all of these years.  I beginning to think even the cousin was testing me...

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Sidney37,

Leonor wrote what I would have written as well. Healthy families deal with these events in a completely different manner. FOG families have unclear communication, and are manipulative, especially towards those they have a hard time controlling.

These are the exact events that FOG based families use to pull in those like us - those who went NC, so that we could get ourselves away from PD abuse.

The only thing I'll add is that in my experience, cousins can be really confusing flying monkeys. They may be fairly healthy (in comparison to the PD parent we have) and have some ability for healthy communication with you. That said, they are caught in the web, where they will not confront the PD. Which makes it hard for you to have any real allies, who are going to be honest and compassionate towards you, and offer real support.

Even though I had some relatives who were not PD's, the fact is - even they were not supportive towards me. They were aligned with the FOG system, because they are not willing to confront it. In order to stay in the family system themselves, they align with what the PD is doing. Your PD parent is manipulative, and it is unlikely that a cousin will step in and actually help you out by giving your clarity. Either clear information, or clear signs of real support.

The PD in the family has power over the FM's.

They don't want to upset the PD themselves, and they don't really understand the dynamics of the 'family' they are a part of. The healthy thing for them to do, would be to ask themselves why they participate in an unhealthy family system. But most FM's won't ever do that. They are scared that the PD will then treat them they way she's treating you.  This is how abuse works.

I went through a situation somewhat similar to yours - years ago. Cousins and other FM's used the opportunity to see if I could be manipulated once more. I stayed away, and it was painful. The family member in the hospital was not a PD. But they swarmed all around that person. PD's can be extremely controlling when it comes to medical events in the family.

It meant I could not have the time with the relative in the hospital. My heart goes out to you. All these years later, I know that there was no way the PD's would have allowed me to have any sort of peace if I entered their fray.

Trees

[daughter]

I'm aware of their hospitalizations as have occurred, but haven't made contact, because their actions, subsequent to my polite non confrontational NC decision (after particularly bad behavior of nparents), were so bombastic that any reconciliation on my part is resolutely impossible. Nothing has changed at FOO home-front.   

I'm ok with permanent NC.