Today is my birthday. I could really use some support

[WearyHusband]

Today is my 46th birthday. My uPDw asked me what I wanted for my birthday a few days ago.

After 8 months of no sex at her insistence, I said, "I'd really love to connect with you emotionally and have sex."

She said, "That's not gonna happen. You say that I cut off sex. But that's your narrative that is so critical of me. our RELATIONSHIP isn't in a place for sex."
I ask over and over what we can do to improve our emotional connect.
I bring her flowers.
I buy her gifts.
I ask her to go for walks.
It goes on and one for months, and I still feel she is emotionally unavailable - then she blames me for why she doesn't feel an emotional connection with me and won't engage in affection (even non-sexual, kissing, hugging, etc.)  It's exhausting, humiliating, and frustrating. I feel so lonely in my marriage relationship.

I've insisted that we see a clinically experienced marriage therapist together to help us, but she has not been willing to do so up until the last week. (I've finally started to gain the courage to leave the marriage and told her last week I couldn't continue unless she's willing to see someone together to help us. She finally agreed, and the next day told me she loved me and held my hand for the first time in months. I realize there are no guarantees, and the hope of real intimacy is pretty low. But I want to exhaust all reasonable possibilities to have a meaningful, loving marriage. I'm searching diligently for clinically qualified therapists with experience working with PD's/Codependency dynamics in marriages. Even with a great therapist, I'm realistic and cautious.)

She sees me as a "hidden abuser" and replays every fault I've ever done. No focus whatsoever on herself or awareness of how her extreme reactions affect me. Any attempt to bring up ways that hurt me create a spiral of berating, boomerang conversations, circular arguments, etc, at least until I joined Out of the FOG and started implementing tools from the Toolbox such as noJADE and MC. The crazy making reality is that the more I worked on myself and stopped JADE'ing, engaging in circular arguments, placating, apologizing over and over for the same things that she brings up about me... the more disconnected we are. It's baffling. I lived for  years with the belief that if I would change the things about myself that she said hurt her (and there were plenty of them) that she would give me the love and affection that I desire. I was wrong.

She has gone to her own individual therapist on and off for the last four years "to heal from the pain I've caused her." (Three different therapists over the last four years)

This morning as we did a family birthday tradition of eating cake and opening a few cards and presents before our four teen kids head to school, I opened a present from her.
It was an art piece of a couple holding hands.
Oh no...
I couldn't hold back the tears. Enormous grief and sadness.
I tried to keep it together but I couldn't.
It evoked so much emotion from me.
My wife won't touch me, but she's giving me an art piece on my birthday of a loving couple sharing an affectionate moment.
I retreated to my room and felt so ashamed that I would cry on my birthday in front of my kids and have to leave the room.
She asked if she said or did something.
I told her I would talk about it later.
I didn't know the proper thing to do.
A bit later after collecting myself, I communicated, "I appreciate the gifts. When I saw the picture of the couple together holding hands, I felt deep grief. That's what was going on."
She said, "I hear that you don't like it. I will return it."
She sounded curt and annoyed and angry.
I tried one more time (oops).
"I'm feeling sad, but I'm trying to move closer to you. This isn't how our relationship is always going to be, but I'm very tender in the area of affectionate touch."
This then moved into the beginning of her explaining how she is afraid of me and if I want her to feel safe, then she questions the choices that I am making in the relationship."
I start to feel confused and anxious.
It's extremely difficult to feel enormous grief and perceive anger and coldness coming from he.
I (wisely I think) said I didn't feel comfortable discussing this anymore until we can discuss this with a therapist.
I listened to a podcast about EFT therapy where the presenter talked about the Tango and how emotionally and physically connected you must be to engage in it.
I thought, "Wow. I'd love to do a Tango lesson on my birthday with my wife."
She agreed to go with me.
This morning after the incident with my tears at the art picture, she suggested that I consider canceling the Tango lesson.
I said, "I don't want to cancel it. I want to do it, with or without you. I hope you still go with me."
She said, "I think you need to consider if it's good for you to go."
Confused again.
Ugh.
My soul feels like it just got scraped with garden tools.
Here's a gross window into where my head is at right now (what is going through my head): I'm aware of feeling GUILTY for feeling grief and causing her pain, reacting to a gift with despair - how mean and rude of me. Something must be wrong with me that I'm so sensitive.  I should apologize.

But NO. NO. NO.
That's sick.

That's the effects of years of toxic thinking. Right?

I'm stepping outside myself and realizing how horribly destructive the nagging negative self-talk, shame, and Caretaker behaviors are.

We later did the Tango lesson together and I had a lot of fun. I sort of felt like she was doing it out of duty, but it was still fun.

It's tough on a birthday to be denied real love and affection from the one you hope to be closest to. I'm finding other things that I am genuinely grateful for, and that helps. But I still go in and Out of the FOG.

Thankful for this community.

-WH

[square]

Sorry you had a tough birthday on top of everything else.

I can relate to the gift thing. My H doesn't do gifts or cards for anything, even birthdays and Christmas, but for some reason he gave me a Valentine's Day card a couple of years ago, and some chocolates or something.

In the context of all the criticism, blame for his whole life, withering resentment, and just plain not liking me, I assumed I was going to get some joke card. I had my MC on and was fine. I open the card. It has a cat on it and it says he wants to spend all nine lives with me. My MC cracked a teeny bit, I think I breathed in a little sharply and my eyes git a bit watery. But I said heartily, "aw, how sweet, thanks!"

Inside, I was torn to shreds.

It was grief, like you said. To get a simple little card like that, with a sentiment that should have been quite easy for a married couple, but it was just so baffling, so untrue. With everything he says, all his contempt for me, what a burden he constantly tells me I am to him, he'd do it again eight more times?

He jumped on my reaction. Why did I react that way? Why did I look like that? I smiled my vacant vapid smile and said it was lovely, thank you so much. He kept pecking away and I just held on. If I had been honest at all it would have ruined the day.

It hurts. I'm sorry.

[JollyJazz]

Hi Weary Husband,

Happy Birthday 🎁🎉🎈🎂 sending warmth and support your way!

I'm so glad that you are here.

I'm also so sorry to hear what you are going through. Many people here are or were in similar situations to you
you are in the right place! With holding physical affection is one of the many forms of emotional abuse your partner is showing to you. I get in because I was in a relationship like that. I am female and about 10 years ago I was in a one year relationship with a guy who would hardly touch me. It really savaged my sense of self confidence (which it was meant to). He was also very emotionally abusive in other ways. It turned out that he was really gay and cheating on me. He just wanted to use me financially. Charming huh? I left eventually with the help of a therapist. Then I took a year off dating and did solid therapy which helped enormously. Note: when I eventually did get away and felt my energy levels surge. Later on I found a wonderful partner who was very loving in every way!

Anyway, enough on me. I just want you to know that you are not alone. Just sending you support and a big hug
There are great resources here to help. Hope you can get in every bit of self-care, outside support, little escapes and kindness you can get. I know it may not seem like it now but there is hope - maybe not where you expect it, maybe you'll find support elsewhere. Anyway, here for you

[WearyHusband]

Jolly and Square,

Thanks so much for your kind words of comfort and understanding.

I'm processing a lot with a therapist right now. It's a deep and lengthy process unraveling the complex dimensions of why I continue to stay in a relationship with someone who continually rejects me, abandons me emotionally/sexually, and attacks and blames me - and why I was attracted to her in the first place and continued to choose to be with her. What imprinting in my childhood affected me (I grew up in chaos (uNPD father who abandoned me).

My self esteem has been so low for so long that I continually felt there was something wrong with me. I continually pursue her though she's unavailable and unwilling - yet when I set boundaries and create space for myself, she tells me how "it's killing her" and how much she loves and cares for me. My heart leaps for a little while and I start to pursue her again, only to be rejected. It's so confusing. And I'm afraid to leave because "I don't want to hurt her." Wow. As I process more and more, it's baffling to me how I continue to think this will all magically change year after year.

The tools here and the support of Out of the FOG members continue to be a lifeline of sanity and practical help.
Sending back virtual hugs
-WH

[Starboard Song]

Your story just hurts.

I'd like to point out this: there are any things that a toxic or disordered person may do on purpose to hurt or manipulate another. But I think oftentimes the incoherence factor is not on purpose. My MIL may write the nastiest letter imaginable, calling us names and accusing us of terrible things. Then she may write, three weeks later, "you know I'll always love you." Is that manipulation?

I sometimes think it is them trying to reach out. Not doing it very well, mind you, but trying. Since you are posting in the Committed to Working On It space, I'll offer it: I think many folks with PDs are truly suffering inside, and it is a defensiveness and insecurity that drives many of the common behaviors. That's my feeling. This justifies nothing, and doesn't obligate us at all. But it can be an emotional grounding point to realize that monstrous behavior doesn't always come from monsters.

So much good strength to you.

[SonofThunder]

Weary,

You wrote "...she tells me how "it's killing her" and how much she loves and cares for me. My heart leaps for a little while and I start to pursue her again, only to be rejected. It's so confusing."

There again lies the IDD cycle; the classic hoovering bait to a spouse desperate for relationship with a legal spouse who greatly enjoys the push-pull, because it freshly and continuously feeds their need to be wanted.  PD's internally do not like who they are, so they hoover and bully to keep others from seeing the internal reality. The push-pull of the IDD cycle feeds that inner-child. 

Until you accept it and protect yourself from remaining on the hamster-wheel of the IDD cycle, you will remain "confused".  Look back at your posts since your arrival here at Out of the FOG and the good advice you have been provided by many, and possibly consider that your writing is repetitive in nature.  That repetition in storylines can be a good resource to look back at yourself over a period of time, and is a common writing trait here, until the non accepts the reality that exists with their PD's and moves forward.

It's hard to accept the possibilities that your spouse is truly a PD and I'm sorry you experience this, but I encourage you to to accept the reality and move forward, finally getting off the wheel of the IDD cycle.  That can be done, within the context of marriage if you so choose. 

Btw, happy birthday to you. 😃

SoT

[Starboard Song]

Dang.

SoT, you are really nailing it these days. Well said. I think many of us learn a lot by reviewing our own storyline upon arrival here.

And it is true: getting off the hamster wheel doesn't have to mean ending a relationship.

And also, +1 for remembering to say....

Happy Birthday!

[SonofThunder]

Starboard,

Thanks for the kind words.  Ive been in Weary's shoes, and also currently in the similar shoes of many here at Out of the FOG.  Such a great number of us are on the same trail, but just at different stages along the journey, as the trail presents different challenges regarding certain factors along the way.   But luckily, the Out of the FOG toolbox is excellent and crucial to belong in everyone's backpack, for all hikers to use daily as a variety of issues arise along the trail.  In general each of us is hiking solo, but interconnected to folks farther ahead/behind and all can communicate their experiences to others, so all can benefit. 

Its reassuring and empowering to be on the path with others, and also humbling and tricky when the trail gets to a fork of critical and potentially risky decision-making.  Some choose the easier fork which they find simply loops them around, father back on the trail they already walked (IDD hamster wheel), and each time, they face the same hardships and choices once again.  It takes bravery and adventure to take the more difficult path and luckily, there are others ahead to encourage us that the difficult path will eventually reveal later, when the thick cutting briars start to recede, that it was a path well chosen. 

Im hoping for those brave choices for Weary, for others and also myself (even in the context of marriage), when we reach the next fork on the journey.  Cheers and again, thanks for your kindness. 

SoT

[WearyHusband]

SoT and Starboard,

Sheesh. I'm a mess. I don't think I could have survived the last year without faithful, wise friends with whom I can be vulnerable and can be accurate mirrors for myself, a good therapist, and the support of the Out of the FOG community.

I want to get off the hamster wheel.

SoT, you're absolutely right. The same dynamics keep playing over and over and over, and they will continue.  I'm making slow progress... two steps forward, one step back. I feel like I'm trying to pull my way out of a tar pit.

I'm committed to moving forward. I'm learning so much from your posts and responses.

Grateful,
WH

[SonofThunder]

SoT and Starboard,

Sheesh. I'm a mess. I don't think I could have survived the last year without faithful, wise friends with whom I can be vulnerable and can be accurate mirrors for myself, a good therapist, and the support of the Out of the FOG community.

I want to get off the hamster wheel.

SoT, you're absolutely right. The same dynamics keep playing over and over and over, and they will continue.  I'm making slow progress... two steps forward, one step back. I feel like I'm trying to pull my way out of a tar pit.

I'm committed to moving forward. I'm learning so much from your posts and responses.

Grateful,
WH

Weary,

You can do this for yourself, and for your children, regardless of your decision regarding your wife.  A possible question to ponder;

If you were to choose to divorce, and miraculously got full custody, yet purposefully remain single for the rest of your life, what would you do differently, than what do currently? 

I urge you to think about and daydream about some areas of your life.  I would bet good money that you daydream in these areas already. But again, in this exercise, no current or future spouse and no dating.  Examples are:

Work
Kids
Friends
Other Family Members
Hobbies
Daily Schedule
New Adventurous Ideas
Travels
Your House
Your Health/Body
Weary's Fashion Preferences
Others Areas?

If you choose to play along with me here, consider replying on this thread with your detailed list/thoughts on those areas/other areas.

SoT

[11JB68]

SOT I'll play!

Work no changes there except I'd probably work later occasionally to be more caught up.
Kids I'd definitely work on strengthening my relationship with Ds, spending more time with him doing fun things
Friends I would spend more time with friends
Other Family Members partly due to pd issues in FOO partly due to updh's issues, I am nc with my foo. I don't see that changing. I'd probably end up losing any relationships with updh's extended family... Some of that would be sad to me as they are the only family I've had for a long time...I would try to maintain some of those relationships but I can't see it working out well.
Hobbies I would read more, watch way less tv, get more outdoor time.
Daily Schedule I would go to bed earlier, get more sleep, eat way less at dinner time, work later, exercise after work, sleep in on weekends, spend less time on chores and errands, schedule more fun stuff for weekends and even do fun things spur of the moment!
New Adventurous Ideas see above! More outdoor time, more exercise and nature, more travel, more live music
Travels assuming I had the money.... Disney, Universal, Montreal, nova Scotia, Scotland, Beach, lakes, mountains...
Your House would sell, downsize/rent... Less upkeep and work for me.
Your Health/Body see above: more exercise and fresh air, more sleep, healthier eating habits, less stress
Fashion Preferences would wear what I want/when I want free of judgment!
Others Areas?

[SonofThunder]

SOT I'll play!

Work no changes there except I'd probably work later occasionally to be more caught up.
Kids I'd definitely work on strengthening my relationship with Ds, spending more time with him doing fun things
Friends I would spend more time with friends
Other Family Members partly due to pd issues in FOO partly due to updh's issues, I am nc with my foo. I don't see that changing. I'd probably end up losing any relationships with updh's extended family... Some of that would be sad to me as they are the only family I've had for a long time...I would try to maintain some of those relationships but I can't see it working out well.
Hobbies I would read more, watch way less tv, get more outdoor time.
Daily Schedule I would go to bed earlier, get more sleep, eat way less at dinner time, work later, exercise after work, sleep in on weekends, spend less time on chores and errands, schedule more fun stuff for weekends and even do fun things spur of the moment!
New Adventurous Ideas see above! More outdoor time, more exercise and nature, more travel, more live music
Travels assuming I had the money.... Disney, Universal, Montreal, nova Scotia, Scotland, Beach, lakes, mountains...
Your House would sell, downsize/rent... Less upkeep and work for me.
Your Health/Body see above: more exercise and fresh air, more sleep, healthier eating habits, less stress
Fashion Preferences would wear what I want/when I want free of judgment!
Others Areas?

11JB68,

Thank you for playing along!  I enjoy the daydreaming and playing this game periodically with myself as self encouragement!   

Next step: Let's assume you have mastered the toolbox tools of MC, noJADE and created great boundary rules for yourself to protect you from remaining in the face of judgement from your uPDh and face of family members with whom you don't desire to maintain relationships.

Which of the desired choices you wrote in your above reply could you ACTUALLY begin to do right now, even while married to your uPDh?  If you find ones in the list that you believe you could not do while married to uPDh, list the reason why (with your toolbox protection actively working for you).  What reaction would you face from uPDh on the items you could do?   

*Remember that in my original scenario question, you have full custody of the kids.

Also, since in a marriage the 50% rule exists as well. So for example the house sale would wait due to the marriage and uPDh's rights.  You may attempt to strike some of that travel off the list, but (for example) you can travel alone, with a kid(s), with girlfriends, so think deeply about this list, before you scratch one off.   

In this daydreaming game, you can't scratch one off because uPDh gets mad, tries to control or manipulate you or money, because boundaries and the toolbox can protect you from these attempts by uPDh. This type of brainstorming can actually reveal where we, as full adults with adult rights, are being controlled and manipulated by PD's, versus lovingly encouraged by a spouse to reach our goals for ourselves.  This type of exercise can help us begin reaching our goals for ourselves RIGHT NOW.  In addition, younger kids (pretend you have full custody so some limitations will exist)  will learn to model our strong behaviors and may find life more enjoyable with us at the helm of ourselves, pushing the PD's behaviors to the side (with the toolbox), rendering the behaviors ineffective.  (Still a pain to deal with but mostly ineffective)

Since we are married to PD's who desire to selfishly feed themselves by controlling us and others, it should be our goals to re-acquire ourselves, shed the PD's attempts at control and manipulation while in the marriage, and do so without doing back to them, the same behaviors we loath from our PD spouses.  Thanks for potentially playing along and hopefully Weary replies with his list as well, and then answers this next step. 

Lastly, I'm not desiring to hijack this thread, but provide the OP(Weary) some support as he requested in the original post.  I see no problem for others to play along as well because it may encourage Weary to read other's lists and revelations that some of us are, in reality, only being held back by OUR OWN  unwillingness to take bold steps, down the difficult fork in the path versus the mentally easier path of self-restriction and compliance/caving to the PD's desires for us, that sadly keeps us looping back around on the PD's IDD hamster wheel of control.

If the mods desire a new thread is needed, i will surely do so. 

SoT

[11JB68]

SOT and weary, yes, I played along not to hijack but to maybe encourage Weary to think this through as well...

[WearyHusband]

SoT,
I'm grateful for your response. I've been away on a work trip for 6 days and plan to respond later this week.
The time away has been a boost for my soul. I am self-employed and love what I do.
My therapist has encouraged me to continue seeking outlets for creativity and expressing my passions, as I've spent way too much time the last few years restricting myself based on my own shame at the dysfunction of my marriage relationship (thinking it's my fault and something is wrong with me).
When I'm expressing my creativity and love for healthy relationships through my work, I feel so alive and joyous.
I head home tomorrow and can feel the dread and anxiety creeping back in.
-WH

[SonofThunder]

SOT and weary, yes, I played along not to hijack but to maybe encourage Weary to think this through as well...

11JB68,

I look forward to your responses here on Weary's thread.  I do this exercise often as motivation for myself and a boundary reinforcement to allow myself the freedom to be who I want to be, yet still married to a uPDw.  Even in a marriage between two mentally healthy people, each person does some give-and-take, but in general, each person should provide freedom, in love and support to become who they desire to be, and to become the best they can be.

In contrast, with these mentally unhealthy people as spouses, the above becomes twisted in a goal to serve the PD in the changing needs they have at any particular time, yet always feeding the inner constant and masked self-loathing they are trying to satisfy to keep themselves mentally afloat.  We become targets of need and the cost is ourselves, both mentally, emotionally, physically, financially and in marriage, sexually as well when withholding becomes a tool to manipulate, control and hurt. 

Being living creatures, we also have an expiration on this Earth, therefore this life as a feed-target for the PD is consuming the clock of opportunity for us non's to become who we desire to be.  Therefore, this exercise imo, when balanced with my own responsibilities of my choices in life (balanced/healthy 50% rule toward my spouse, children and responsibilities I have chosen) with the 51% rule and the full suite of the Out of the FOG toolbox to assist, helps me to strongly move forward on being me, in the face of PD onslaught to be who my PD desires me to be, for their benefit.

It is also my job in the 50% rule, in the freedom of love (desiring what is best for my spouse) and support to allow my PDw to become what she desires herself to be, but as best possible, at the reduced expense of myself in doing so.  Surely, because I'm married to a PD, I'm expending a lot of energy in protecting myself, learning and other time spent in reinforcing myself in this situation, but the 50% rule tells me I have the adult choice to leave, therefore that energy spent, is my own choice. 

So 11JB68 and Weary, I encourage you both on this thread to continue to play. 

*Remember that in my original scenario question, you are not married any longer to a PD, you have full custody of the kids and you have chosen to remain single for the rest of your life.   

When Weary returns, I hope he will play along here, for his support (his request on the thread) and read 11JB68's honest answers in support of his thread and allowing his thread to uplift and support others as well, to move strongly forward on being who we desire to be, even while being married to a PD (reminder to readers that Weary's thread is in this 'Committed to Working on It' forum section).

———-
11JB68:

Which of the desired choices you wrote in your above reply answers could you ACTUALLY begin to do right now, even while married to your uPDh?  If you find ones in the list that you believe you could not do while married to uPDh, list the reason why (with your toolbox protection actively working for you).  What reaction would you face from uPDh on the items you could do?   

SoT

[SonofThunder]

SoT,
I'm grateful for your response. I've been away on a work trip for 6 days and plan to respond later this week.
The time away has been a boost for my soul. I am self-employed and love what I do.
My therapist has encouraged me to continue seeking outlets for creativity and expressing my passions, as I've spent way too much time the last few years restricting myself based on my own shame at the dysfunction of my marriage relationship (thinking it's my fault and something is wrong with me).
When I'm expressing my creativity and love for healthy relationships through my work, I feel so alive and joyous.
I head home tomorrow and can feel the dread and anxiety creeping back in.
-WH

Weary, glad your travel has been a boost for your soul!  I am self-employed also and like you, enjoy my employment.  We have much in common.  I understand well, the reality of arriving back home and the anticipation of the mental workload ahead. 

I hope you may find time to answer the questions here, as 11JB68 has done and allow your thread to be a support of other readers, to encourage them to strongly work on themselves, even in the midst of marriage to a PD, should they choose to stay.

Welcome home from your work journey!

SoT

[escapingman]

Weary, this could have been written by me. I have known for 10 years that something is really off with my wife, but decided to ignore it for the first few years but then things escalated about 5 years ago and the last 3 years being unbearable. We haven't had any intimacy for years, never mind sex which has always been a control thing for her and I have stopped looking for it (she could stop in the middle of the act and just give any random excuse that I did something wrong and then not being in the mood anymore). I have like you tried to cope with all the ups and downs, but for me it has become impossible as it now affects the children in an unhealthy way. I don't want the children growing up thinking it is OK to treat people the way she does and especially how she treats me. She projects anything on to me and I can peacefully sit and drink my morning coffee when she decides to kick off and tell me and the kids that I am mean and why I ignore her. These lightening strikes are impossible to dodge, you can't defend yourself against complete fabrications and how do you explain to your kids that their mum that they look up to is lying and setting me up? It has gone so far for me that I even have started doing MC to my daughter, she is currently in severe FOG and ha been made a flying monkey by uNPDw. I can't have a decent relation to her when uNPDw is in the house as all she does is striving for validation from her mum, which she knows she easiest gets by insulting me using the exact same words as uNPDw uses.

I am like you self employed, my work travel has been my oasis. But this has been taken away from me the last year and a half because of the pandemic, I suppose this has also affected my mental health quite severe with no time for breathing. I have lately started to do some travel again, just for myself to get some space but it's not enough. I always dread the moment when it's time to board the plane back home, this should be the most exciting thing to get home to the family but no....

SoT, I will play your game - just wait for it!

Weary, good luck whatever you chose to do!

[SonofThunder]

Weary and escapingman,

So you don't have to scroll back, below is the original daydreaming question. 11JB68 has already responded with answers and we are now waiting for her to answer the second part in relation to her responses.   

First question:

If you were to choose to divorce, and obtained full custody of your children, yet purposefully remain single for the rest of your life (so answers should not include dating-type activities but can include activities where both men and women participate), what would you do differently, than what do currently. 

I urge you to REALISTICALLY think about and daydream about these areas of your life (and others)

Examples are:

-Work
-Kids
-Friends
-Other Family Members
-Hobbies (current/new)
-Daily Schedule
-New Adventurous Ideas (can include a variety of things like entrepreneurship, permanently relocate to a new country/state/town or others, living in an RV, others)
-Travel (vacations)
-Your Current Home/Living Situation (move? different style? remodel?, redecorate?)
-Your Health/Body Preferences
-Your Fashion Preferences
-Others Areas not Mentioned?

In support and encouragement for Weary on his thread,

SoT

[SonofThunder]

. She projects anything on to me and I can peacefully sit and drink my morning coffee when she decides to kick off and tell me and the kids that I am mean and why I ignore her. These lightening strikes are impossible to dodge, you can't defend yourself against complete fabrications and how do you explain to your kids that their mum that they look up to is lying and setting me up? It has gone so far for me that I even have started doing MC to my daughter, she is currently in severe FOG and ha been made a flying monkey by uNPDw. I can't have a decent relation to her when uNPDw is in the house as all she does is striving for validation from her mum, which she knows she easiest gets by insulting me using the exact same words as uNPDw uses.

escapingman,

My opinion regarding your quoted statement above:  First, let me say I am sorry you are continually dealing with this.  Second, i agree that flying monkees and triangulation can surely occur in our relationships with PD's and its especially difficult with children.  Although, children are very perceptive of the TRUTH, and their prolonged experiences with others teach them what is true or false, letting them decipher for themselves what was said vs their experiences. 

You wrote: 

"These lightening strikes are impossible to dodge, you can't defend yourself against complete fabrications and how do you explain to your kids that their mum that they look up to is lying and setting me up? ". 

Yes, they are impossible to dodge, but not impossible to noJADE and MC regarding.  Imo, if your children are with their mother frequently, they are well aware of the truth regarding her behaviors on a consistent basis=truth.  Likewise, the same also for you...

Imo, there is no reason to explain your wife's behavior to your children and can backfire in a big way. Imo it is also JADEing through your children.  Again, the best way for your children to determine the TRUTH for themselves, is through their own experiences.  Are you boldly available to spend more time one-on-one with each child, away from the home?   If so, i want to encourage you (and Weary since this is his thread) to look at that prior daydreaming topic and consider being more proactive with each child separately, away from the home on something that is 100% catered to their tastes and enjoyment.  If one child likes to camp, have a dad & child camping trip; if another child enjoys museums, go there!   Do this on a continuous basis and imo, never discuss anything negative about your wife, do not try and bolster your own reputation with your children and do not use gifts to gain favor.  But rather, let the continuous TRUTH that dad is very proactive, a man of truthful and open communication (not a liar), enjoyable, flexible, optimistic, funny, patient, kind and so on... be their experience. 

If your wife opposes you doing this, politely tell her that you are sorry she feels that way and that since you believe one-on-one time with each child is healthy for each parent/child relationship,  that you will fully support her doing the same with each child, making the time to stay home with the other kid(s) while she is away having mom-and-child time!  That is not a JADEing respinse.  When you (or your wife) are away with a child, not only is the child soaking up the truth about dad or mom through experience, but the one(s) at home are also soaking up the truth about the other parent. 

I say all this from experience and now that my kids are adults, they have expressed to me that many of the negative things they were told about me, were not true, and in fact the truth was actually hypocrisy, as it was my my uPDw that actually was doing the actions/reactions she projected onto me.  I remind you that your fatherly goals for your children are long-term, and its continuous TRUTH that molds long-term understanding. 

SoT

[escapingman]

SoT: Your advice is spot on, thank you so much. I am using the entire toolbox at the moment, its hard but I manage. My uNPDw has brainwashed GC so much at the moment so GC is shouting at me, telling me she hates me and so on. I really don't think she hates me, but she says it to please uNPDw. For now I need to just ignore it and move away. I had a weekend away with my SG child last week and it was amazing, we did everything uNPDw would kick off about - we even bought a McDonalds and ate in bed at the hotel room! I had a weekend away with GC 2 years ago and it was great, we went to a football game, museum and strolled around town. But now, I can't do anything with GC as she refuse to do anything unless uNPDw is included. GC has been completely brainwashed and I cannot see any way to sort that other than splitting up with her mum and spend time with her without her being concerned about her mum.

I also spent a lot of time thinking of your game SoT, and I am sorry to say I don't have a very exciting answere.

I want my life post uNPDw to be like this:

- Peace and quite.
- Calmness
- If I sneeze to not be shouted at
- To have a lay in to 10AM on a saturday morning without being called lazy
- Watch a movie at night without it being turned off mid way cause uNPDw decides she doesn't like it
- Open the house up for friends and family to visit whenever they want
- Have the kids friends over whenever they want
- Have Pizza parties with the kids and their friends
-  Being able to watch TV in the evening without having to watch "her" programs
- Go to the shops and buy something and not be told off for it
- Being able to go to the garden centre and buy a plant/bush/tree
- Work would be pretty much the same, I like my work and maybe just being able to work more odd hours as I am self employeed.

I think I could go on and on and on but the main point is I want a more relaxed life with noone judging me or the kids for whatever reason.