NPD friend strikes again: Any advice?

[countrygirl]

Hi,

Foolishly, each time I post about this friend, I hope it will be the last.  But I keep hanging in there, and she doesn't change. 

We are in the habit of chatting during the afternoons.  This means something to me, because I've been laid up for a while.  Yesterday, it was "my turn" to call her (not that we abide strictly by who called last).  But soon after we started talking, she snapped at me:  "I should tell you that X will be calling me, and WHEN she does, I will be getting off the phone!"  Believe me, I never try to get anyone to stay on the phone if they have another call to take, so her abusive proclamation was totally unjustified. 

Later, she called back and offered to do this, that or the other thing for me, none of which I need (as she knows), but I thanked her.
Then she said that X had e-mailed her and would be calling today at the very time we always talk.  X lives across the country, making it sort of a weird time for her to call.  I only mention this because of the timing.  But more important than that is that I knew my friend would not think to call or text me earlier in the day, just to check in and, sure enough, she has not.  (I should mention that she no longer works, so is around all day and could call or text at any time.)

I just wish that, for once, she wouldn't behave this way.  She is pretty much a loner, but any time anyone else is involved in any way, she makes a point of excluding me.  That she would even managed to do this with a phone call shocks me, but it should not.  In fact, WHY am I still hurt and stunned by her behavior? 

I have good friends who do not behave like this, not at all.  But I have also had a few PDS, and this one is the one with whom I am closest.  I hate to think about ending the friendship, but I am so sick of being treated this way.  Another friend says this woman is very jealous of the friendships I have and of my marriage, and so any time she has a way to exclude by using someone else, she does.  Yet I always make time for her; I never speak to her the way she spoke to me yesterday.   

[countrygirl]

I am "replying" to my own post!  Actually, I mean the post as a postscript.  I just want to say that I've had it with this so-called friend.   I hate all of this game playing. 

[clara]

Yep.  I've learned to set my own rules when it comes to interacting with a PD, and to never violate those rules.  So, when the PD attempts to regain control of the relationship, I fall back on my rules, and rule #1 is I will not do something just to please the PD.  And if they don't like it, too bad.   They can do what they want, when they want and how they want, but that doesn't mean I'll be there to tolerate it.  I can walk away and let them decide what they want to do, but my decision is made.  And if that sounds harsh, keep in mind that that's exactly how they view their relationship with you.   I wouldn't enforce such rules with non-PDs, but then, I don't have to make such "rules" for non-PDs.  It really is apples and oranges.

From my experiences with PDs, your friend is trying to tell you that she has total control over what happens in the relationship.  She probably wasn't expecting that call at all, but just wanted to put you in your place, i.e., in a lesser position than this other person.  PDs "rank" people and the people at the top of the list are the ones doing something for them.  But also, PDs make up relationships in order to keep you from making demands on them (in their way of thinking when it comes to relationships) because their #1 excuse for not dealing with you when they don't want to is they "don't have time" and one of the ways they don't have time is because they're spending it with others.  It doesn't matter if they really are or aren't, they just want you to know who's in control.  They can be sitting home alone and not doing anything but will still tell you they don't have time.   To their way of thinking, you don't have any rights to make demands of them (and normal human interaction can be seen as a "demand") and this is how they let you know it!  It's probably for the best you give up on this relationship because it will never change, will never evolve or grow.  Yeah, they may have hurt feelings about it and cry about how unfair you're being etc. etc. but think of all the times they abused you then dismissed your feelings about it!

[countrygirl]

Thank you, Clara!

As usual, your advice is lucid and spot on!

You are so right about how PDS have to control the relationship, and about how they can see interacting as demands.

As a coda to my post, my PD friend did call me, but I was less than enthused.  In fact, she even said that she'd told the friend on the opposite coast about my physical condition, and that the friend expressed a lot of sympathy.  This may or may not be true, but what would have helped me was my friend treating me with some civility the other day.  In fact, when I heard this about the supposed sympathy, I wasn't able to say anything.  Generally, I am the first person to say "thank you," but I just couldn't this time.  It felt as if this sympathy was supposed to make up for how I'd been treated.

Speaking of sympathy, today my friend is seeing a doctor for a worrisome condition she's had.  I offered to go with her, although I am not really up to doing so.  (I made this offer prior to the incident I described in the first post.)  She said she would call after the appointment.  I do care about her, and will be sympathetic, but part of me feels as if I should not be taking the call.  Another friend suggested that when she calls, I say that I am expecting another phone call, so can't talk.  (To mirror how she treated me.)  Of course I'm not going to do this, but I don't like being in a friendship where I'm even discussing behaving this way.  Another reason not to have PD friends, I have found, is that I am tempted to mirror their behavior, just to let them "see how it feels."  I do not do this, but I don't like even entertaining the thought.  I find that being around them brings out the worst in me, not the best.

[HeadAboveWater]

Countrygirl, of course you are tired of being treated poorly. It seems that you are being deliberately devalued. Who would like that?

Is this someone you can trust? Is this a relationship that brings you some level of joy? If not, it may be time to start releasing it. Could you try decreasing contact and seeing how that feels?

[countrygirl]

Hi HeadAboveWater,

Thank you for your reply.

There are some good things about this friendship, which is why I'm still struggling with it.   My friend is a very intelligent, interesting person and we are on the same wave length about many things.  And she can be warm, "when she wants to be."  But then she will pull something like she did the other day, and I start to question whether she really is my friend, whether she values and respects me. 

I withdrew from another PD friend not that long ago but in her case, the bad definitely outweighed the good.  And even though having to withdraw made me sad, I know it was the right decision.  In this case, I vacillate.   

[countrygirl]

Well HeadAboveWater and anyone else who happens to read,

I don't know how much of a "mixed bag" this person really is!   She just called me after returning home from the doctor's, and she was very relieved that there's basically nothing the matter, just a very slight issue, which the doctor took care of.  Then she got some blood test results, and those were all good.  I expressed happiness and relief about her good news.

Here,  I am having not such a good day, and I felt like chatting a bit, so when she said she was getting off the phone to have lunch, I asked if she could call me back after she'd finished.  Keep in mind that I'm laid up and that she no longer works.  But instead of saying that she would call me back, she said she was going to take a walk first.  I hope I don't sound as if I'm being horribly petty here, but it did feel as if once she'd gotten what she needed from me that she was done with me.  In contrast, I was feeling down about my condition and had just gotten a script for yet another MRI.  But SHE was feeling good.  By the way, I can't really walk more than a few paces now.  I am NOT asking for sympathy, just filling you in on where she's coming from:  She told me that she wasn't going to talk to me because she was going out for a walk.  Could she have called me after lunch and before her walk, as I asked her to?  Yes, but she wasn't about to make that much of a change in HER schedule. 

[HeadAboveWater]

It's a pity that your friend could not be bothered to "show up" for you. Perhaps it's good to have some clarity about your feelings though? You deserve to feel respected. Best wishes as you think about how to move forward.

[treesgrowslowly]

Countrygirl,

I ended a friendship with someone who I felt similarly about. I liked so many things about her and it was upsetting to realize that although she and I had some good times together, the way that she treated me was unacceptable. And she refused to discuss her behaviors. Ever. And that hurt because I wanted that friendship pretty badly.

"Good" people can end up treating different people in their life in different ways especially because it actually takes work to take responsibility for their own needs and feelings. A 'shortcut' that a lot of people seem to try with me (because like you, I am accommodating to a fault) is that they do what she did to you on the phone. They vent some anger or anxiety they are feeling, and direct it at you through words and gestures that relieve them of something they are feeling. Most people who do this have no awareness that it is what they are doing and cannot talk about it. The friendship becomes very stressful for the person who has to manage their reaction to each insult and injury to the friendship.

You are not here to absorb all of that or any of it without your consent and i cam see in your posts that you are rec9nsidering the c9nsent you once gave her. Which means you are being a normal adult. If you told me there was something i did that made you feel belittled, I would not deny things i did or said. Healthy enough people take responsibility for our behaviours.

She has issues. But this is actually about you. In your posts I see a lot of self awareness and insight. This is actually about your growth. You're growing and the things you used to do don't feel great anymore and you wish she would come with you to the new place where you feel good about your boundaries.

The friendship you want with her doesn't really exist because the friendship that you want with her requires her to take responsibility for her behaviours more than she does. We cannot change other people. You are seeing things as they are and it is important that you help yourself to grieve the friendship that you want with her. She is who she is right now.

It hurts to free yourself from bonds like this. To prevent the hurt we try to make things work. We do something akin to what the other person is also doing. We try to see if somehow they can help us with how we are feeling.

Bonds that frustrate and disappoint us are hard to deal with. I often used to fantasize about making friendships out of my time with people like this. But friendships require us to both take responsibility for our behaviours. Otherwise what you've got is someone who wants to get away with being self absorbed. They force us to parent them. If a 8 year old had done what she did, and you observed it, you would very likely see that this is not the way to treat a friend.

[countrygirl]

Hi treesgrowslowly,

Your thoughtful, compassionate post brought tears to my eyes.  You so clearly understand the dynamics of this friendship, and from both sides.   

My friend was abused by her father when she was young, and although she is a smart person, she is opposed to psychology--because she does not want to look at herself.  She once told me that she doesn't know how the abuse affected her.  And once she said that she harbored a lot of anger toward her mother, because either her mother knew about the abuse and did nothing;  or didn't know, but should have.  She said this one time; otherwise, she idealized her mother.  I say this because I think I am right in line for that unexamined, unlived and displaced anger.  This ties in with your observation about how good people can "vent some anger or anxiety they are feeling, and direct it at you through words and gestures that relieve them of something they are feeling."  It also proves your observation a little later about such people forcing us to parent them.   

And as you also observe "the friendship (I) want with her doesn't really exist," because she is not the person I want her to be.  "She is who she is right now."  Again, that is a very compassionate insight, because it is not blaming or belittling her, and that "right now" allows for the possibility of change.  Here, I just read the last few paragraphs of your e-mail, and I could quote all of them.  Suffice it to say that you are correct, this is about me.  I have been through this same dance with this friend so many times:  She behaves in a hurtful manner; I try to discuss how I'm feeling; she tries turning the tables, rather than accepting responsibility; then I back down for the sake of the friendship; then she offers to do something which I know she's never going to do and which I don't even want her to do--I just want common civility.  For example, in this case, she said she would in effect be my nurse if I have surgery.  If I need a nurse, I will hire one; I would never ask a friend to nurse me.  All I wanted was to talk for a few minutes!  Yet I am supposed to believe that she would be Florence Nightingale  Promising fantastical behavior in the future does not compensate for rude and unfeeling behavior in the present.

At any rate, thank you for your post.  I am going to reread it, because it contains some profound insights about the dynamics of this sort of friendship.  I know your understanding has been hard-won, since you ended a friendship with someone who behaved this way.  I think the end of this friendship is inevitable.  I ended another PD friendship last year, but ending this one is even more difficult.       

 

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Countrygirl,

Friendships are a real puzzle when I look back at where I've struggled about things.

The more present and self-aware we become, the more frustrating it can be to figure out what to do when there are people we like, but the friendship isn't going well and it's just so helpful to have a forum like this to see that we're not alone in the things we struggle with.

It can be so hard to navigate the unspoken expectations with friendships. Most recently, I have had someone try to keep things on her terms, and unspoken. She isn't a 'bad' person and not a PD in my estimation, but her way of doing friendship just doesn't work for me. And I can make it sound 'easy' to notice this and move on, but I would not say it is easy, and I think it is other people who have been affected by PDs who know what I am talking about. There are non-PD people who are a match for others, that may not be a match for me. And it is real maturity to see that. (PDs, it should go without saying, are never going to be a match for me, for friendship or any sort of bond).

I have to say, a lot of people think that we are a match when they get to know me. This is because codependency is about trying to match up with others as a survival strategy. Most people don't realize that what they think is a match between me and themselves for a friendship, is actually due to codependency because of my history. I take responsibility for this but it doesn't mean I can explain it to people who believe I am going to be a good friendship match for them when they have spent maybe 10 or 20 hours with me total before deciding this? I still contemplate what it means to recover from codependency and navigate new friendships. I am learning all the time. What are your thoughts on this?

Don't beat yourself up for any of this stuff you're trying to manage. Sure, there are things that people do that other people can 'handle' and maybe I  can't handle what the girl next to me can handle from the same friend. That's life. We are unique, and that is a good thing.

What matters is that you take time to practice seeing the things you are responsible for and seeing the things you are not responsible for (i.e. other people's behaviors and choices). Seeing those things a day or two later and then practicing the awareness you are doing, means you will see these things in real time more often and you'll notice that you remain focused on the things that are yours, and you'll feel yourself 'let' people be responsible for themselves when they talk and do things.

The people who want you to be responsible for their feelings and choices, will look odd to you as you keep on going with your journey. You're very reflective, you're gonna get through these tricky times with your older friendships.

[countrygirl]

Hi treesgrowslowly,

First, thank you for the encouragement.  Just yesterday, I had an issue with this friend, and I told her how her behavior made me feel.  She apologized, and then asked to visit today.  I told her I wasn't up to having a visitor today.  And, actually, I don't feel like seeing her right now. I feel this way because of many incidents, not just one.  Because of my parents, I have an unfortunately high tolerance for bad behavior.

You make a good point about how sometimes certain friendships just don't work because we can't deal with who the other person is, even if they aren't PD.  And how realizing this isn't easy.   

You pose a good question about how to explain to people that you actually aren't a good match for them.  You probably won't be surprised to learn that I sometimes face the same problem.  I too learned how to match up with others as a survival strategy.  Generally, in these instances, I just don't take the next step with people.  In other words, if they suggest lunch, I say no.   (This was before I was laid up for such a long time.  I don't meet too many people here in my home!  However, I can not recommend being housebound as a solution...  Ha!) 

I agree that you can't explain that you are working on your codependency, because that is disclosing too much personal information to someone with whom you won't be getting close.  Also, many people would not understand what you are saying, and/or they might not accept it.

I don't know if thinking about it this way will help, but you mention that people make this assumption that you'll be a good match after knowing you for maybe 10 to 20 hours total.  This is really too soon to make this decision, no matter how much you like the other person.  So maybe it will help to think about how they have some responsibility in this too. 

How do you handle this now?  Is there some reason that you are unhappy with the way you are handling it?   It is a quandary.  I would be interested to hear more, should you like to write more about it.

You know, I just realized I am encountering this issue, despite being housebound!  I had to write to someone about a long distance issue, and then I followed up with writing to them.  Well, I just received a personal letter from her the other day.  I want to be friendly, but am leery.  If I move, she will be a neighbor, so this is a tricky situation.  In this case, who knows, she might become a good friend.  But if it turns out that we're just too different, I will have to step back. 

A good friend has always told me that he waits before giving too much.   This is just his natural way of doing things.   We have been the best of friends for many years now, but he was reserved with me at first.  And I've noticed that he doesn't get himself into the friendship webs that I do.  But, as you say, we are each unique.  His parents were very different from mine.  They accepted him as he was, and they didn't scapegoat their children.   

You have raised such a good topic,       

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Countrygirl,

I should say that if I knew how to make the quoting feature work here I would add quotes of your posts in mine because your posts give me a lot of food for thought as well.

I have learned that what your friend said is wise advice. Wait before giving too much. This keeps some of the PDs in our midst from trying to latch on, but even with non PD people, it is good advice.

I was glad to read that you communicated some boundaries with the friend, that you didn't want a visit that day. When I think about that, I think about helpful your friend's advice is to wait and go slowly with people. With this person that could end up being your new neighbor, if you do need to step back, as you and I know both know well, it is when we need to step back from someone that the anxiety and drama can make things feel frustrating.

I'm thinking about a few different people in my past where, when I needed to step back, they went into a fit of tears / rage. And I totally agree with you, this is their responsibility. I am starting to get the sense that the 'stepping back' has to be there from the start, meaning that I assert myself and state when I need space or have changed my mind about something, and do that early, none of this codependent accommodating at the beginning because then the person is 'surprised' that I don't always want to just go along with what they had planned.

Speaking of plans, I stopped agreeing to plans made so far in advance with new people. It was for them not me, that we were putting coffee dates on the books for 2 weeks away from the date. Then I met someone who agreed with me that they didn't like planning events in advance either. I thought I had found a match. What I discovered...you can probably guess. What that person actually wanted and insisted on, was to do things spontaneously, when it suited them. So they would phone me or call to do something that day, but when it was me calling them to make plans that day, they didn't like that. They didn't like spontaneity, they liked control.

[countrygirl]

Hi treesgrowslowly,

Between trying to send messages and trying to post here over the past few days, I honestly can't remember whether I tried to respond to this post or not!  My apologies if you have already received my reply. 

At any rate,  it does seems typical that the person who you thought liked spontaneity actually just liked control.  (By typical, I mean typical for life.)  What's interesting to me is that this was a person who was trying to match up with you.  She tried to match up by claiming she was spontaneous, because that is what you wanted.  As I'm writing this, I remember meeting someone years ago who seemed like such a warm, spontaneous person, but who also turned out to be someone who liked to be in control.  But through her, I met another person who actually was a warm person.