Realizing She's "Elderly"

[No.]

We don't usually talk about Nm, but GCs has let me know that Nm is getting really bad with memory, etc. GCs claims she's getting dementia, which her Nm had. I'm sure it could be the beginnings of that. But, she has always had the thing where she is not listening to what you're saying, so therefore can't recall, doesn't know, doesn't "remember", "has no idea", etc. So I'm not sure what to think.

But, I am feeling like I question, COULD this be different? Should I re-engage? Could I tolerate a once in a while short visit, and if I did, would this help my constant struggle with this subject? I already feel like now with even less mental function than before, reconciliation is for sure a lost cause.

At christmas she sent me a card that was basically a demand for forgive and forget. That showed me nothing has changed. I don't know. But I wonder if I were to re-engage, something positive could come of it. Could I find peace more easily?

[Spirit in the sky]

We don't usually talk about Nm, but GCs has let me know that Nm is getting really bad with memory, etc. GCs claims she's getting dementia, which her Nm had. I'm sure it could be the beginnings of that. But, she has always had the thing where she is not listening to what you're saying, so therefore can't recall, doesn't know, doesn't "remember", "has no idea", etc. So I'm not sure what to think.

But, I am feeling like I question, COULD this be different? Should I re-engage? Could I tolerate a once in a while short visit, and if I did, would this help my constant struggle with this subject? I already feel like now with even less mental function than before, reconciliation is for sure a lost cause.

At christmas she sent me a card that was basically a demand for forgive and forget. That showed me nothing has changed. I don't know. But I wonder if I were to re-engage, something positive could come of it. Could I find peace more easily?

If nothing has changed I would proceed with caution. Once you open a can of worms there's no going back.

Do what you feel is best for YOU first and foremost.

[lkdrymom]

We don't usually talk about Nm, but GCs has let me know that Nm is getting really bad with memory, etc. GCs claims she's getting dementia, which her Nm had. I'm sure it could be the beginnings of that. But, she has always had the thing where she is not listening to what you're saying, so therefore can't recall, doesn't know, doesn't "remember", "has no idea", etc. So I'm not sure what to think.

But, I am feeling like I question, COULD this be different? Should I re-engage? Could I tolerate a once in a while short visit, and if I did, would this help my constant struggle with this subject? I already feel like now with even less mental function than before, reconciliation is for sure a lost cause.

At christmas she sent me a card that was basically a demand for forgive and forget. That showed me nothing has changed. I don't know. But I wonder if I were to re-engage, something positive could come of it. Could I find peace more easily?

If you are cut off, why would this change anything?

[Blueberry Pancakes]

My parents were always so vibrant and social and actually still are, but my mom too is what anyone would call "elderly". I noticed a few years ago that mom's memory was slipping beyond what is normal. It is now undeniable my NPD mom has dementia. A few of her friends have spoken to me about it. She is still living at home with my dad. So, knowing what is going on, and also knowing it is a degenerative condition only going to get worse I also mull over how much contact to have. I am currently VLC and have been for over one year. 
 
Personally, I do not believe our relationship will be any different as this disease takes it course. What I have experienced however is that mom is less able to stir the pot or   triangulate. Perhaps that might make some things more tolerable. She still hurls insults though that cut through to my heart. I suppose old behaviors die hard. A few months ago she told me she loved me and I replied "you should love me I am your daughter, and what mother doesn't love her own kid?" I knew I should not have said that, but I just couldn't hold back. Of course, she sharply replied with an accusation "And what kind of daughter doesn't love her mother?"  I know it was too much for her to have just told me that of course she loved me because I am lovable and anyone would be happy to have me as a daughter.  But nope. Dementia aside, she is still who she is.   
     
I think it is a personal choice, and whatever you decide is alright. You could also test the waters and try some contact with her to gauge how you feel with her. You will notice the triggers, the behaviors and will notice when your stomach turns in knots.  If those same old dynamics start up again, then you have every right to step back again and put those boundaries back up. I believe whatever you decide, do it for you and what will give you peace.     

[No.]

Thank you for the responses. I agree, it is something I would do for myself. For my peace of mind. Not expecting too much change on her end.

Spirit, I suspect it could very well result in more of the same, and going back to NC. It would be a risk to see if what has changed within me would be able to keep a good boundary, physically and mentally with her. Maybe she just won't try so hard to control, knowing now I am serious. (I've been NC for 5 years now, and was VLC for years before that). And for good reason.

dry mom-I cut HER off. She has been trying to hornswoggle me back in, but a lot less in recent years. It's been relief in some ways, but I feel like I'm coming back around to wanting it to be easier on myself, like at all these elderly family members' funerals, family functions, kids performances, etc..

BBPancakes- Yeah, I could probably predict she would say some covert stuff. She would definitely act victimish. I see how her Nm acted with dementia and it was kind of like a 2 years old. But a lot of it was Nm not even attempting to learn about dementia and trying to argue about every crazy thing Ngm said..."I'm 100
..no you're not, you're 96!" Enter tantrum...

I don't know. I feel like a negative energy has been lingering within myself. I was doing a lot better for a while, but this is an unresolved huge thing. I know the resolution I was hoping for- a good relationship with my mother- is not going to be. But maybe a resolution where I am not hindered from seeing certain family. I don't feel panicky when someone dies or has a performance for anticipating seeing her. I don't know if I would feel guilt or glad I made a stanch NC decision if she happens to die, or if I do. I just want to relax and not be concerned with this stuff anymore, and I'm not sure how to release this energy that binds me to it.

[WomanInterrupted]

I think re-engaging with her is a really bad idea, and will only cause you grief, misery, and probably an upset stomach - at the very least.   

I think what's going on is that weird phase where the PD starts running the show and *everything* starts falling into the land of Plausible Deniability - including her memory.

PDs do NOT age well.  The things they've relied on in the past - looks, money, education, community ties of the, "Do you know who I am?" variety - all those things start to lack as time marches on.  They lose their looks, they're not half a fascinating as they think they are, people stop caring about the money they have, and  others move away or pass on.

The PD is left with a small and insular world that keeps getting smaller and more insular all the time as more people leave, move, die - or ghost them.

IME, that left ME to be the sole source of supply     - and I wasn't having it.     I realized I was NOT responsible for unBPD Didi or unNPD Ray's happiness - let alone their material needs.  If they needed help, they could hire people, otherwise, I was staying out it.

I'd advise you do the same thing - I think you'll find your mom is the same, but *worse* and wants to shirk all responsibility and accountability - and fob all her needs and wants, which she'll probably frame as needs - off on you and make them your problem.

You don't have to prove you're the bigger person by putting up with shitty behavior from your mom.  You already KNOW you're the bigger person - you don't have to do a litmus test or endure what feels like a root canal of the soul to prove it.

If your mom needs extra help, she can hire an aide or get other outside help - people who get PAID to put up with her for X amount of time, then get to go home and forget about her.

That doesn't have to fall to you - and you know if you show up once, it then becomes your JOB, in perpetuity, and your mom probably will NOT shake from the idea.

I think your absence is best and suggest the same to your sib - your mom can hire people to see to her.  She can consider AL.  She can talk to her doctor and express her concerns, but NONE of it has to become your problem - or your sibs's.

You don't need to test yourself - there really is no need, especially with a person you *know* is going to repeatedly test your boundaries, just because they can.

I'd  suggest GC sib stay out of it - it's probably nothing - but if your sib is that concerned, your sib might want to consider speaking to your mom's doctor and leaving it there, where a professional has been notified of any concerns.   

[Adrianna]

I just wanted to agree with WI. People with pds do NOT age well. Add dementia to the mix and it's like pouring gasoline on a fire. It's that bad. Their demands become absurd, the entitlement, misery, guilt and stress they put on others, it's all magnified. It's like their worst version of themselves with little to no filter. It's truly a horror show. In addition to their standard emotional abuse, which likely has been going on for many years, add verbal then physical abuse to the mix once the dementia sets in. You don't want to stick around for that. Stay away.

I've heard in the very later end stages of dementia it can reverse and they become kind. Wouldn't that be something?

[No.]

Thank you, WI and A- I agree with all you're saying. For sure.

I think in my mind I would not be re-engaging on that level or allow her to suck me in. But, you're right, it could happen the way you describe and at the very least, I'd be affected by her needy negative victimish energy. I don't believe I am responsible for her medical needs, and wouldn't have the money to do much if I did. Knowing what she went through with her Nm, I'd think she's be planning some medical care. She told me at that time "see what you have to look forward to when I get dementia?"  That's part of why I had to too NC!

I don't feel as powerless now. I've broken the trauma bond, and I "see" her. She will never see me. It's just hard when the occasional family thing comes around. However, I do get triggered and think about things related to her every day. I'm not happy. I feel like I have narcissistic and codependent traits, or have had in the past, and remember clearly the reasons why. Although I am very self-aware, there's a never-ending array of triggers and realizations. Always on my mind. I don't know what makes me think being more relaxed about being in her presence would relieve any of that. 

[Pepin]

The Christmas card kind of says it all in my opinion.  A demand to forgive and forget...  I went through something similar years ago though I hadn't cut off NF...actually, he discarded me before I had the chance to go NC.  My siblings were on his good side during that time and after 4 years they urged me to come back into NF's life.  I proceeded with caution and operated on my own terms.  Since I lived far away, he often asked me to visit and stay with him and also that he would pay my airfare.  I refused his acceptance to pay for airfare since I travelled with DH and our children.  There were a number of times where we stayed at a hotel because honestly, it was easier for us as a family with young children.  I did stay at NF's house 2 times and the first time was difficult because it was hot and he has no AC.  The second time, he was there for a day and then left on "business".  He visited me a few times as well...sadly, all of these interactions were ploys for him to get me to serve him again which was humiliating.  Often I stood my ground.  As a new mother and wife, I did put him in his place a number of times when he started acting like a child.  As a result, he began to lose interest in me. 

After a number of years, the tables turned and NF started honing in on one of my siblings (the GC) and that was when the sh*t hit the fan and my siblings and I all went NC with NF for good.  My siblings finally saw what I saw.

While NF hasn't suffered from dementia as far as I know, he has followed the PD protocol of flipping the script in his favor regardless of facts.  He has made mistakes along the way....admitting in writing things he has done, that anyone would understand as being egregious.  He has had no diagnosis of mental instability....though I know he is too smart to even consider an evaluation like that.  No PD wants to get that diagnosis. 

I'd stay NC if I were you.  Don't get burned like I did because going NC after being discarded was one of the most maddening things I have ever been through.  It has taken years on inner work.  I think that if I hadn't had that setback, I would have had the foresight to realize that other PDs were also in my life and I would have removed them sooner.  My sense of self was destroyed having allowed NF back into my life. 

[No.]

Pepin, thank you for sharing that, and your hindsight..I'm thinking as time moves forward I would experience something like that. It's been hard work to remain NC and do a lot of inner work, and I don't want to ruin that. Yet, I still struggle with the question.. I'm so sorry you were so kind in giving your NF a chance, and he chose to blow it. I'm glad your siblings FINALLY saw the light. I wish mine would, but that's their deal I guess. GCsis seems to be LC with Nm, but I don't think she would ever feel at liberty to walk away, although she has reason.

[Phoenix Rising]

We don't usually talk about Nm, but GCs has let me know that Nm is getting really bad with memory, etc. GCs claims she's getting dementia, which her Nm had. I'm sure it could be the beginnings of that. But, she has always had the thing where she is not listening to what you're saying, so therefore can't recall, doesn't know, doesn't "remember", "has no idea", etc. So I'm not sure what to think.

But, I am feeling like I question, COULD this be different? Should I re-engage? Could I tolerate a once in a while short visit, and if I did, would this help my constant struggle with this subject? I already feel like now with even less mental function than before, reconciliation is for sure a lost cause.

At christmas she sent me a card that was basically a demand for forgive and forget. That showed me nothing has changed. I don't know. But I wonder if I were to re-engage, something positive could come of it. Could I find peace more easily?

Any demands for you to do anything is a clear sign IMO that nothing has changed and that re-engaging would be detrimental to your healing. There was a post in another section of the Forum that linked to a blog on the signs an abuser has changed / has not changed. I'm on my phone so I can't link atm

Perhaps you may want to check it out and assess whether you want to try to reconnect.  If it were me, I would continue to look even more within myself to hone in on and develop the skills to find acceptance and peace that a PD family member will never be the loving family member we deserve. Additionally, it may seem like or be in fact true that your family member has dementia but from my perspective, that is not the real person anymore. Seeking a typical relationship at this point will most likely be draining and the behaviour/traits/demands will just worsen. Ultimately it is up to you but PD seems to just worsen with age

[No.]

Thanks, Ingenting. The thing I've noticed is in the WAY it's becoming worse is that she is more and more the victim. What happened to the bully and aggressively abusive person she used to be? Now it's just poor poor feeble her. It's hard to feel sorry for that. I have had a couple of friends say once they were to the old feeble point they became nicer, but that's not what I saw with Ngm.