:sadno: I watch and interact with my kids and see how the entire situation has effected their personalities and behaviors to really saddens me. I I have gotten to we're I honestly don't know what to do anymore. I can't control them because if I try to discipline them she has it set in their heads that I'm a non entity in their world, that all they have to do is go to her and she will scream and cuss at and or threaten me. Then she will flip and tell me I have to "man up" and be the adult, the parent. She started cussing and throwing a fit our daughters' school today, not knowing that they had to have permission from me to even speak to her. She has been very hit or miss with the kids education to date but somehow in her home state even tho she had custody and it was she who pulled the kids over petty stuff, I was threaten with jail time for truancy. They are a bit diff here. Since I have been the one in contact with the schools and have made the decisions as it were, I have complete control over it, and they must have my permission to confer with her. She screamed at the poor woman that they would not be attending because of requirements. I just don't know anymore.
I found it useful to openly discuss the issues with my kids in an age appropriate way.
I also empowered then to disengage from crazy and behavior while at the same time expecting them to be respectful.
They knew they could report things and thst I wou d address then with my spouse in their behalf. This way at least the unfair behavior and pd game playing was open between me and the kids and they did not have to pretend it was not hurtful etc.
I took the list of traits on this website and we went through the list and talked about the items on it so they could see from a neutral third party what was what.
I wish you the best in dealing with the kids. It's so awful when they are effected by every thing a pd puts then through.
I'm seeing more and more how stbxh has negatively impacted my children. And how my reactions to his behaviors have impacted my children.
Its so very painful to see. I'm not sure what's to be done other than to love them, open lines of communication, and be the stable parent they need.
H doesn't rage. He doesn't shout. He teases, mocks, sulks and quietly manipulates. I've tried explaining to kids in an age appropriate fashion. But I always stumble. So hard to point out a childish behavior without calling dad childish.
I may take 1foot's suggestion about talking through the traits.
It's very hard to be the "stable" parent when ther mother has them convinced you're the unstable one. However my son has started openly questioning her about some things she does and defending my position on things.
As the kids get older and more mayite they will see more and more of the truth with their own eyes.
I truly hope so, I try my best not to drag them into things with her but she insists on pitting them in there to be on "her side". I tell her to leave them out of it but she says they have a right "to know" how worthless their father is or whatever the argument is.
My stbxh recently pulled the "they have the right to know" argument with me. Thanks to my support here at Out of the FOG and was able to step in. I explained that the only thing they need to know about their parents relationship are things that affect them directly. The kids focus should be on being kids.
I think I saw that your kids are around age 10. Thats young for kids to be questioning the world around them and where/how they fit in it. Maybe checkout the Talking to Kids part of the Toolbox for more info.
My DD started questioning her dads behavior around age 15.
My youngest started calling out her father's hypocracy at age 4. She was like a little lawyer.
She was also very angry about it all. I had no choice but to start having conversations that were age appropriate.
Age 4? Wow.
I think that DD started questioning Dad's behaviors when she became more emotionally mature than him.
Now I'm wondering if she questioned sooner and I smoothed over. I was deep in the FOG then.
It's the effect on the children that has been the final straw for me. I warned her over and over to not back chat me to the children, but she just can't help herself. Golden child is lapping up her words and believe it all, or at least acts like she does. It really is sole destroying to hear her moaning to the kids about how lazy, useless, fat, selfish, mean and any other made up story. She can just make up anything and present it as my opinion, GC believes it and think I am so mean for what I am suppose to have done.
If I don't leave now I am at serious risk of not only destroying my future relation with the kids, but for them to be broken too.
Escaping you just told my story
Wanted to share something that I'm slowly learning.
We cannot completely eliminate the effects of our partners on our kids.
First, I thought I should stay to shield them.
Then, I thought I should go and try for full custody.
Now, I'm thinking one heathy home is the best I can do.
I can only give them one stable, loving home and the tools needed to cope. It's not a happy truth. But I'm trying the radical acceptance approach.
I have been that child and it sucks. Better by far to remove children from a toxic family environment than remain in it. ALL the research points to this.
BB, I am so very sorry you had to go through that.
You say the research points to it being better to remove a child from a toxic environment. But for many of us, custody laws state the child spend 50% of their time with each parent. That's the hard part to face , IMO.
It's not a one size fits all scenario.
I watched a friend got through H, trying to make it work. Then her H beat her up and put her in the hospital. In our state his doing so with a minor present meant to assault charges.
Despite this and his extreme alcoholism, she ended up with a 50/50. The custody case took All day be aise his wealthy parents hired lawyers, brought in doctors etc as witnesses to discuss her medical issues over the past years like ovary problems ans such, it was a dark comedy. The jedge ended up by saying there is no way I can in good conscience give this man custody or Un supervised visotation. The next day the jedge gave 50/50 custody. The man ended up talking his kid into quitting school and working full time at a restaurant sayi ghe could home school the next year to graduate in time etc etc. As soon as he was driving the father pressured him to buy a truck instead of a green low gas miles car that he wanted because the dad wanted to be able to use his boat.
I feared my kids would be in a similar situation if I divorced. I used the tools and have lived like a single woman with an extra kid who will never grow up.
Now the kids are almost grown, and my pdh is starting into dementia. I am biding time. Was going to place him in assisted living for a while after a mental health breakdown a few weeks back. It was not possible so I made more adjustments to bring him home. Fortunately he is stabilized. We no longer live as roommates but almost as neighbors. He comes to dinner most nights and out to eat most of the times we do. I take him to town to run errands a couple times a week.
The kids are more relaxed not having him in our space all the time.
Do what works for your family, but optimize for everyone yourself included if possible.
I agree unfortunately, the custody laws(especially toward fathers sadly) make it impossible to go completely no contact, my ex has full custody of our children and has had the courts in her state convinced I'm an abuser and deadbeat, I couldn't even get anything done with kids when she was hospitalized fon suicide watch without her present ??? How that was going to happen I'm not quite sure.
I just find out that my ex is wanting to bring her sister, brother-in-law, and niece into the house. She is currently living in a two bedroom very small trailer, where there will be absolutely no room for anyone to do anything, but that is not the worst of it, her brother-in-law and sister are heavily and I mean heavily into drugs ( police issues and evictions and all because of it.) also my oldest daughter has already come forward once and accused the brother-in-law of abuse ( given what she could say {she's autistic} I would say sexual in nature). At that time no one but me and my fam would believe her, even CPS turned their back on her. Anyway I do not want that around my children, but without custody what can I do?
A P.S. to the earlier post, when my daughter came out about her uncle around that same time an "acquaintance" of his confronted him that their daughter also claimed he abused them. My daughter's case was written off as that I coached her for whatever reasons, and the acquaintance's was written off as his (the uncle's) ex wife trying to get back at him for whatever.
G86:
Sometimes how we tell a story is as important as the story itself, ime
If we speak with expectation for what the listener must do, think it feel.... we're sometimes dismissed or punished, even.
That's a very sad commentary on our justice and social services....law enforcement....bc they're failing the most vulnerable members of society they've sworn to protect and get paid to protect.
Something else help me explain troubling stories about PDs is dropping all judgment when speaking about the PD....in this case your ex wife. If you can speak about them with compassion you'll be viewed as level, logical and more truthful, bc you won't sound vengeful, ime.
It's difficult to remain calm, give very short versions of the facts we can prove AND resist just doing while completely dropping expectation when speaking about our children's safety, but I'm here to tell you......
it's really important to practice and learn how.
I'm not assuming you can't or don't do these things, but you wondered why you'd be dismissed and assumed you're lying in order to strike out at your ex.
The above might be part of the reason.
Listeners, esp jaded, bitter and overwhelmed Judges, case workers, cops and attorneys, don't want anyone telling them what they MUST do, think and feel.....and some of them aren't very stable people themselves, ime. They assume everyone lies and we often harm our ability to appear credible, bc....knowing our children are being harmed actually unhinges us.
Write it all out, your entire set of facts, read it write it read it write again till you find your center and can calmly speak without being triggered.....and pD's know how to trigger us. Internalize your facts, your mission and find a reminder to bring you back from the ledge....like a bracelet you touch when you sense your voice rising, speaking too fast, saying too much, etc.
Think about how you'd speak to a small child....or skittish bird. Keep going back to that....simple, shirt,ready to understand.
Judges also like children to have their own bedrooms and consistent routines.
You might pull all your evidence and facts together, find a good child therapist or licensed clinical social worker to advocate for your child and present the strongest evidence, along with the other family claiming abuse...in a calm, patient manner giving only the hamburger if facts are a burger with bun, condiments and veggies. Keep it simple, short and tailored to what you can prove, ime.
Organize your evidence. Maybe neighbors see things or know things.
I find good people sometimes stand up and do the right thing,even if they don't have to, bc they're decent human beings.
Do what you can and remember to breathe.
Good luck,
I wasn't wondering why I was "dismissed" it was not me who was dismissed it was my child and the other little girl. I was simply trying to get some advice on what to do about my ex moving " him" into her house.
You wrote your DD was written off bc the authorities felt you coached her.
The acquaintance's child's claim was dismissed, bc the uncle's ex wife was assumed to be seeking to " get him back." I assumed they felt it was revenge, not get back together in a relationship.
I'm not blaming you.... I'm trying to help you avoid mistakes I've made, in case you've made them also. If you weren't advocating for your DD.....who reported the abuse?
Breathe. 10 deep breaths. Maybe more. It calms our Nervous System so we can think clearly and problem solve.
What I do know is it's necessary to pull together all your evidence, witness statements, any expert witness statements in order to formulate your theory of your case, keep it short, pointed and don't talk about anything else, which is difficult, bc we're upset when talking about these things, understandably so. We talk and talk and talk if we aren't checking ourselves, ime.
The guilty accused will always claim a child has been coached. The evidence this is happening is when the child is repeating exact words and phrases of the "coach.". Your DD is autistic and perhaps she did use some of your words and it was necessary....not coaching, just helping. This is why bringing a child psychologist on board would be helpful. They can say it hopefully without any bias or appearance if bias, ime.
From that evidence, you form a believable narrative you can back up with facts and documentation. Believable means we leave out the crazy PD facts we can't prove, even if true, bc it makes us appear unhinged just to say them. The evidenc needs to "square up" and make sense to people who don't understand PDs.
There are 2 children making accusations. Perhaps there are more if you seek them out? Filing charges against this man seems wiser than reporting your wife to DFCS, but I'd consider doing both and engaging a Child Psychologist to present an expert opinion, hopefully after meeting with your DD at least once, to back you up.
Having the other family provide evidence at the same time should be helpful, imo, but a family law attorney can guide you through this better than I can.
Avoiding the communication mistakes I posted about ( and, as aI wrote) have made myself) will help people understand your situation. Right now, the people in positions of authority don't understand.
It's better to get your evidence together before talking to an attorney, btw. I put mine into a binder for quick access and reference. Some evidence will be good. Some not so good.
I wish for the best possible outcome for your DD and other children.
If I may offer a bit of advice, maybe it was offered and I missed it, but it is this:
Use the toolbox. Be upfront, short and brief, monotone, and not angry or condescending about your ex with your children. Keep the focus on teaching them to handle the situation. Focus on teaching them to listen to their feelings, learn to express them and also, most importantly, take the time to listen to them. Listen and wait when you respond. When you do respond start with "I hear you say . . . " If you don't have time to respond, tell them to table it and why and make sure you come back. This will make the biggest difference between you two and provide them a safe place to go. That is very important. They need to learn that their feelings are valid and important.
Also, and I can't stress this enough, get them into counseling asap. Find them someone outside of all the chaos they can rely on who is trained in this. There are great child therapists out there who can really provide you and them support, tools and work with you all to process this appropriately. It has made all the difference for my son who has come out of it more resilient than I could imagine.
Good luck and we are pulling for you all.
MYbe you can speak with someone at a domestic shelter, ie a social worker. Or try seeking advice from a social worker in your county system. You might make an appointment with the school social worker or one with the family services.
Perhaps one of these individuals can give you an idea of resources you can use to navigate through this.
If not maybe hiring a lawyer and going for at least temporary custody until the other parent can secure better conditions for the kids.