I think she needs more but what? and what to do?

[moglow]

Mother is knocking at the door of 85 years, has pacemaker for probably 30 years now,  high blood pressure, apparently gained a good bit of weight [and possibly diabetic?] and all but lost what mobility she had even a few short years ago. Her words of "Not getting around well" has recently been retranslated to mean she scoots around on a wheeled walker my brother got her. Brother also said that in response a recent request that she pick him up after his vehicle had failed him, she told him she couldn't get to her car that's parked just behind her house. Which also presumably means she can't get to her washer and dryer in the shed nearby, IF she could carry laundry out there and back - how, with a walker? And if she could get to her car, I wonder if she can safely drive anymore at all. He thinks her driving is pretty sketchy as well. I don't even know how she's buying groceries - does she go get them, do they deliver??

She recently got trapped somewhere in her house when a hard cross wind slammed a door behind her, not sure where or how long she was there. He says she's become very clingy, expecting him to be there checking in every day or so [he lives within about 10 miles of her house]. He's the one she talks to, the GC for as far back as I can remember, but he's not necessarily been spared her wrath - he just walks out and goes back in a day or so to check in with her.

Anyhoo, some guilt has kicked in here. I could and would have long since asked to help her here and there, but for the abysmal way she's treated me. I flat out don't want to go there for her to be either overly oozy appreciative [however long that lasts] or have her lash out and be all nasty to me yet again. I know I'd walk out with the latter, but I have no desire to be her housekeeper again either. I picture all this in my head and remember the hell she put me through for years about how she wanted her house kept, and the abuse heaped on me when something wasn't done "right." The complaints that I "missed a spot" or "didn't do it right" or meltdown that I heaven forbid used the wrong broom or folded her towels wrong, all while she sat there gloating ...

I guess what I'm asking - am I being unreasonably selfish in wanting no part of this situation? Is it wrong for me to tsk tsk poor lady, she could call a housekeeping service? To be clear, she's told me none of this. She's hinted -to one of my cousins- that she wishes someone would clean her house, but she's said not one word to me. Not about that or anything else actually, phone calls are brief and impersonal.
It feels wrong somehow, leaving this helpless sick old woman on her own and making no effort to help her. I don't wish her ill - I just want no part of it or her.

[Poison Ivy]

I do not think you're being unreasonably selfish.

[moglow]

It feels wrong to not reach out but I know all too well, her response could be any of 1000 things I don't want or need. I'm reminded of the many many times I was shoved aside and walked over, with no apology or decency anywhere to be found. I just don't want to subject myself to that. And yet I still feel guilty. 

[Andeza]

What if you did a sneaky thing? Have brother tell her that he has got a housekeeper, but you're actually paying for it. Would that give you peace? Especially if she straight up banshee screams the poor person out of her home, you can say you tried. Some people just won't be helped.

[moglow]

I've thought of that too, not sure she'd let anyone in the house. She says she doesn't want strangers in her house, they might steal ... something. Dig through the hoardfest is my best guess. Appearances are ALL to her, never mind that she doesn't even talk to her own family. She's the queen of sicky sweet to your face, nasty and insulting as all hell behind your back and assumes everyone else is too so she doubles down every chance she gets.

The "won't be helped" may be as close to truth as we'll ever get with her. Imagining that screaming snarl just gave me the creeps. Thx 

[Cat of the Canals]

I do not think you're being unreasonably selfish.

I second that emotion. And if it IS selfish, then join the club.

My parents and in-laws aren't quite there yet, but it's only a matter of time. I'm also too far away to do much other than offer some kind of financial assistance, but even if I was still nearby, there's not a chance in hell that I would be doing anything hands-on. I could actually envision doing it once, but you and I both know that's not how it works. The second you do them a kindness, it becomes something they're entitled to.

Hard pass.

[Poison Ivy]

Providing in-person care to a family member is difficult enough when the people are fond of each other and reasonably cordial. Providing care to a family member who isn't a nice person is a recipe for disaster for everyone involved.

[moglow]

Points taken. Can't say I could argue any of that with y'all and find reason. If she cant be bothered to be kind on a good day... Yeah.

[Srcyu]

That's the guilt isn't it?
The thing we all feel as reasonably kind people. If she were completely on her own then I guess it would be a different matter. But she's not, so .........
It would all fall apart very quickly if you did try to help.
You stay away for a reason. She doesn't deserve your assistance.


milly

[Andeza]

Sorry for the mental image, moglow. I can't help but picture your M as being particularly malignant and caustic. The Narc that all other narcs identify on sight and avoid.... yikes. I'd say the Obligation is raising its ugly head into the picture too right now. In normal families as parents age you can pop over and help them out a bit here and there to fill the cracks in the daily doings that form as people lose balance or grow weaker overall. But our families are far from normal. Try to fill the cracks in your M's day to day and she'll drag you kicking and screaming down into the personal hell she's created for herself.

Normal people make plans around aging in place for as long as possible. Build shallow wide steps into the house, equip bathrooms with rails to help with balance and access, etc. (Hubby and I are planning around some of this right now as we plan our house build, and we're only in our thirties...) But in PDland everyone must bow to the demands of the queen/king and somehow magically "make it work" according to the twisted and unrealistic picture in their mind. The same twisted and unrealistic picture they have lived in for their entire lives. It ain't goin' nowhere, not until they do. You know you could walk into that house and clean it from top to bottom, haul out all the hoardedcrap, and give it six months and it'd be right back to it.

You've got to allow yourself to feel peace over her decisions. And yes, I'm going with "allow" in this instance, just on a gut feeling.

[bloomie]

Moglow - would it bring some clarity if your brother, who lives closer, could drop in unannounced and get a good look at your mom and her living conditions? At least you would have a sense of where she is at and could possibly address any needs together with your sibs - at a distance.

I see nothing selfish in anything you have said. You are concerned for her wellbeing and you rightly recognize you cannot be the solution should she need some help. I call that wisdom.

[Ottile]

Moglow - if I may offer my thoughts- you are not being unreasonably selfish. You are thinking of her and her needs. You have a conscience which gives you thoughts of guilt. You have empathy. People with no conscience do NOT have this thoughtful mindset to acknowledge how they make others feel and how they treat them, unless it is to fulfill their needs/wants.  It is a worrying situation for you and no doubt does require some intervention from, may I suggest, perhaps 'outside' sources which can provide feedback to you and your brother as to what the real practical needs are. (Provided of course the source(s) are allowed to step over the threshold zone!!)

[NarcKiddo]

She has not told you any of this although you are in touch with her. So she does not seem to be expecting or asking anything of you. I actually wonder if this is a PD trait coming out. You are essentially being discarded but GC brother is getting the needy side (which she could be hoping is being transmitted to you to make you feel guilty?). I mean, it sounds certainly as if she is in some kind of need but who wants to offer help only to have it thrown back in their face?

If the guilt becomes unbearable, and if you are on reasonable terms with GC brother, then is there anything you could do to help him and thus indirectly help her? Triangulation in reverse...

Alternatively, as has been suggested by Otiile, could outside sources step in? Sounds like her age and infirmity is causing an issue which might mean the likes of social services or elderly care could reasonably insist on checking the situation if someone were to alert them.

[moglow]

In other words, I bought a ticket on the guilt trip.  She's very likely dropped a number of hints and I can'ts and I wishes and why doesn'ts on GC brother. For years now he's more or less looked after her property [originally HIS house that he consented to move her into and it became so miserable he moved out and forced sale on her - whole other mess there]. She very likely is physically unable [or making it appear so when convenient?] to guilt him, knowing he's not about to clean her house or help her bathe etc. He and I have always been close, so she may assume/acknowledged he has my ear and can maneuver me in her behalf. Well he did, for many years.

As y'all have suggested -and GC confirmed this morning- I'm not sure she'd let anyone in, at the very least without advance notice. Her paranoias have multiplied and she assumes everyone has ulterior motives, out to get or steal from her specifically. Then there's the embarrassment of her living conditions, left untouched I'm assuming for quite some time. I'm sure she does what she can where she can but not sure what those limitations might be. As you pointed out NarcKiddo, she's not said anything about it to me. She mentioned needing a walker and has said "she's not getting around well" - that leaves a whole lot of space for which there's no explanation, no filler. She also made repeated complaints in the past that I "have no idea what's going on up here!" Well no, I didn't, still dont. She doesn't talk to me, tells me nothing other than dumpster fires of drama that have nothing to do with me whatsoever.

The change is, I don't sit still for the dumpster fires now. Be pleasant or be gone, but I'm just not about the ugliness. Her decision, and she made it. I don't visit because it was made clear my thoughts and my feelings and all that crap [her words] weren't wanted. I choose to not expose myself where I'm not wanted. Whatever she now finds herself in, frankly she built herself. Built great big walls and dug deep pits for herself, and now it's unmanageable. Once again, GC is in a position of somehow fixing for her - only she doesn't want to leave. Doesn't want anyone to help. Wants to dictate exactly what and how anything is addressed, and it be absolutely no inconvenience or discomfort for her personally. I'm not sure I have a dog in this particular hunt.

I'll be back to this later. Lots to consider.

[Sneezy]

In other words, I bought a ticket on the guilt trip. 

Welcome aboard 

I think there are three reasons you feel guilty - 1. You are a genuinely kind person and you don't like the idea of anyone living the way your mother does, 2. Society tells us that we must care for our aging parents, and 3. Your mom installed a guilt button when she raised you and she pushes that button at will.

You do have a lot to consider.  But as you have already noted, your mom is not going to let you in.  And if you tried to set some reasonable boundaries regarding what you will and won't do to help her, she would just stomp all over them.  So for now, be sure to take care of yourself first and do not give your mom an opportunity to hurt you.

Then what can you do about the situation?  Probably not a whole lot.  You are aware of what is going on and you can be prepared if things deteriorate further.  At some point in the future, someone may need to call 911 or senior services or a doctor.  If you're willing to, you can be the person who makes that call.  You may even discuss some "what ifs" with your brother, just to see where you both stand.  For example, if your mom falls and breaks a hip and can't live alone, what do you both think should happen next.

It's so hard to sit back and watch our parents to make unsafe and outright terrible decisions.  But it's even worse if we let them entrap us into all their craziness.  Because they are going to make the same unsafe and dumb decisions, with or without us.  So I vote we don't give them the satisfaction of beating us down while they do what they are going to do.

[SunnyMeadow]

Providing in-person care to a family member is difficult enough when the people are fond of each other and reasonably cordial. Providing care to a family member who isn't a nice person is a recipe for disaster for everyone involved.

Isn't this the truth?

You've put up with so much for so long moglow. I wouldn't get involved in this. Add me to the list of "you are not being unreasonably selfish". Just protecting yourself - as you should. 

[Andeza]

Those hints. Those obscure hints... oh yes I know those. My uBPDm would do those statements "can't get around well" "can't clean like I used to" "not doing well" etc. The whole point of those leading statements was that she wanted me to ask. She wanted me to dig in and demand "what's wrong?" Either so she could brush my concerns off (and enjoy the supply that someone asked) or make even more leading statements, the ultimate goal of which was a visit. She wanted to basically force me to visit to find out the state of things for myself. That didn't work out so well.

[moglow]

Those hints. Those obscure hints... oh yes I know those. My uBPDm would do those statements "can't get around well" "can't clean like I used to" "not doing well" etc. The whole point of those leading statements was that she wanted me to ask. She wanted me to dig in and demand "what's wrong?"...

Ah yes, grasshopper. Malignant md tours all the rabbit trails at this point. Within a breath it becomes A. "Oh NOW you ask?! I've been telling you you for YEARS that I'm not getting around well..." [because you're supposed to know what that means and the extent of it] to B. Full on insulted when you ask or suggest what may be needed because 1. You're supposed to know; 2. Have not already taken care of it; and 3. Provided to her exact and precise standards and expectations, and timetable. Then C. arrives - You failed. No matter what you do or say, she's already decided the outcome and you have failed. And she's vocal about it. Blistering mad that she has to actually tell you anything at all, because remember, she's not told you anything about any of this. You had to ask and somehow that too is your fault.

I understand embarrassment and her prideful self, it's damned hard to admit to much less ask for help. I get that. But the perambulations of her mind...
And God help her if she falls and is found later, told can't live alone. She can't live with me, and I won't live with her. Her sons aren't likely to take her in. She's cut off every remaining family member, all her grandchildren, nieces and nephews. Not sure how she plans to pay for her nursing care - I sure can't. She'll have to figure out how to empty and sell her house. Also something I can't do for her.

Thx for watching over me, guys.

[Andeza]

We get it. Unfortunately we've found ourselves in various forms of the same boat through the years.

[moglow]

Underneath all of this is the flashbacks of phone calls with her for years now. I stopped visiting because it was made so clear on the phone that I wasn't wanted. Why subject myself to that in person? And honestly, unless it's my birthday or some holiday she makes no contact so I started doing the same. I'm mirroring her to some degree, taking my cues from her. For so long everything has been a damned if you do/damned if you don't that I lost all desire to try.

I don't wish her ill. And I don't want to be involved on any level, to be her scapegoat or punching bag when inevitably she's inconvenienced or upset by something completely beyond my control. She may on some level realize what she's done, given her complete silence on the subject.