Should I advise them?

[Associate of Daniel]

So, ds13's uNPD smum has set up a coffee date for him and his uNPD dad's parents.

His uNPD dad is not speaking to his parents.

His uNPD smum and  his uNPD dad's parents are not speaking to each other either.

His uNPD smum has said that the only way she'll let ds13 see his paternal grandparents is if she's there.

Ds13 and his grandparents are really uncomfortable with this but are willing to try it if it means seeing each other.

My worry is that it will result in the uNPD smum banning ds13 from seeing his paternal grandparents ever again after the coffee date.

She will make a scene at the venue and cut the date short. If she doesn't do that she'll still get in his ear afterwards and twist every word that his grandparents say into something negative and unrecognisable.

Should I warn the grandparents?  I think they probably have already worked it out anyway.

Should I suggest they have a contingency plan for if/when the uNPD smum starts making a scene?

Should I tell ds he could cancel if he's uncomfortable with it?

AOD

[athene1399]

This just seems weird to me. I had to reread it a few times to make sure I got it, because I remembered from before that both uNPD smum and uNPD ex weren't speaking to the grandparents. I find it odd smum decided to set this up. I can understand why you are so apprehensive. I would also wonder why smum is doing this and what she is trying to get out of it.

I know I always want to warn the world about what a terrible person BPD BM is, but I don't. I feel like people should know what they are getting into with her (which is why I have the urge to warn them), but I also know that people need to find out for themselves and make their own mistakes/decisions. It does give me anxiety, but ultimately it is not my problem. People will figure it out on their own and learn from their interactions with her.

Also, from what you said, I would think as well that the grandparents are familiar with her and what they may be getting into. If you are still talking with them regularly, maybe a quick "I don't think it's a good idea, but do what you think is best" would suffice. If they ask why then explain, but I wouldn't offer up more than they ask for.  And if part of your explanation is "i think she may cause a scene..." maybe offer up "When she does that around me I do x". But I feel (and I could be wrong) that they are adults and this is their decision/mistake to make. And (as you all know my paranoid side by now) I wonder if smum is doing this hoping you warn them. Then smum makes sure she is on her best behavior so you look like the crazy one.

i think you can ask DS how he feels about it. I wouldn't ask with leading questions (like don't' ask "Does this make you uncomfortable", stick to "how do you feel about it?") and see what he says. If he says he is unsure or uncomfortable then let him know he doesn't have to if he doesn't want to. If he says he's excited, then leave it alone. Probably easier said than done, but he needs to learn from this as well IMO.

I think regardless of what happens with smum and the grandparents, if you still want to take DS to see them yourself you can. And if you'd rather just stay out of it and not take DS to see them, that is fine too (sorry, I can't remember what you decided on this when we were talking about it before).

I know it may be difficult, but try not to be overly anxious about it. smum will do things that you cannot control. It probably feels like you're watching them all walk into a bear trap, but it would be best if you remove yourself from the drama and let it play out IMO. If DS wants to talk about it, then support him and validate how he feels. If he voices it's not a good idea, then let him know what his options are. If he wants to go and things don't go well, you can talk to him about it and help him come to his own conclusions about what went wrong and why.

[Associate of Daniel]

Thanks, athene.

I'm 1,000% sure that the uNPD smum is doing this to drive the final nail in the coffin of uNPD exH and his parents' relationship. Also to fully drive the wedge between ds and his grandparents.

She'll create drama out of thin air then turn around and say, "See? I tried. I've given them every chance but they obviously can't behave so there will be no contact from now on."

And notice the pronoun "I". There's no sign of uNPD ex in any of this.

In terms of her possibly being on her best behaviour, I don't think she actually knows how to do that.  I think she believes her behaviour is always perfect. She doesn't seem to understand that she's doing anything inappropriate.

So she'll probably be her usual obnoxious self and make things the usual awkward, with seething, underlying anger on all the adults' parts, including hers.

I think I will suggest to ds the option of cancelling.

He told me last night that his uNPD dad doesn't know that a meeting has been set up. They are going to tell him a few days before so that he doesn't stew for weeks beforehand.

I wonder if when the uNPD smum tells him, that she'll use his response as a reason to cancel. Just to play with the grandparents' minds.

She doesn't seem to realise that it would be a relief to them and ds (and me) if it was cancelled. And that her being at the meeting is what would make things awkward. Although, maybe she knows she'll be the reason for everyone feeling awkward, and she's loving that power...

AOD

[Penny Lane]

He told me last night that his uNPD dad doesn't know that a meeting has been set up. They are going to tell him a few days before so that he doesn't stew for weeks beforehand.

Wowwwww. I think you should say nothing anyway. But especially after this. This seems like a disaster all around, and I think you want to be as far from it as possible. I agree that it's possible she's setting it up like this because she knows the dad will cancel it. Could she now be trying to drive a wedge between your son and his dad, now that they've gotten more parenting time?

Anyway I think your role here is to support him and his feelings on how this turns out. It seems like with PDs it is SO rare that there's a situation that we can truly step away from. You don't have to do anything here; that's a gift!

[Stepping lightly]

Agree with the others, I wouldn't say anything!  We can't damage control everything with the PDs.  I think in this situation, every path leads to destruction, so you may as well not put yourself willingly into the middle of it. 

[Associate of Daniel]

Pennylane, yes. I think that to destroy the relationship between ds13 and his uNPD dad is next on her agenda. It's probably her longed for last jewel in her crown before she moves on to destroy another family.

Stepping lightly, "Every path leads to destruction." - you're absolutely right.

AOD

[Associate of Daniel]

I'm getting quite worried about this meeting - and I'm not even going to be there!

I've decided not to say anything more to ds.  I'll just wish him a good time with his grandparents.

I think I'll do the same for them, and suggest they "hope for the best but expect and plan for the worst"...

AOD

[athene1399]

I think that's a good idea.

I hope this coffee date is over sooner than later and ends up being drama free. I'm sorry it's making you so anxious. If you find yourself worrying, maybe try to do something else to keep your mind off of it. I know I get anxious when I feel I have no control over something.

[Associate of Daniel]

The irony is that at the time they will be meeting I'll be receiving my annual massage! It was booked before the coffee date was organised.

I am a little worried that if the uNPD smum starts a scene at the cafe, the grandparents may react.  They are not as much in the know about pds as I am. (I have a few years more under my belt.)

I'm actually hoping the whole thing is cancelled but that may not be the best thing either.

AOD

[Rose1]

Enjoy your massage. If they react so be it. They need to work out how they behave with her and their son. To be honest imo the more your son sees his sm's nutty behaviour the sooner he sees through the fog.

[Associate of Daniel]

Thanks, everyone.

It seems the catchup went ok.

Ds's grandfather didn't go due to a home maintenance problem. So it was just ds13, his grandmother and his uNPD smum.

His grandmother rang me afterwards, ecstatic to have seen him and full of praise for the wonderful young man he is. (I can't help but agree!)

She said the uNPD smum had sat stony faced and not speaking the whole time.

I couldn't help wondering, "What do I need to do to win that lottery?"  The uNPD smum usually can't stop herself from bounding all over and criticising my conversations with other people.

I also can't help thinking it was probably a good thing that ds's grandfather didn't go.  I'm sad that they couldn't see each other, but possibly the uNPD smum was planning to cause a scene with him while they were there, since her (and uNPX exH) main gripe seems to be with him.  She was probably disappointed that he wasn't there for her to fight with or complain about later.

But I suspect she's been in ds's ear since anyway, as ecpected.

He doesn't seem willing to talk about the catchup much and seems really cautious about planming another one.  He also seems reluctant to tell me anything of the uNPD smum's reaction to the visit.

I had to kind of laugh  - when ds's grandmother arrived, he was apparently already seated with the uNPD smum next to him, with him against the side wall and his back against the window. It meant that his grandmother couldn't sit next to him.

In this age of society being extra cautious about child safety, it is expected practise (at least, in schools) that no exit should be blocked for a child, so that if they feel unsafe they can run straight to an exit.

The uNPD smum had him trapped, as I understand it. Not good.

Anyway, it's done.  I doubt there'll be another visit for a very long time. There may be a nasty email sent to ds's grandmother by the uNPD smum. But maybe not.

Thank you for all your thoughts and advice.  I'm hugely relieved it's all over for now.

AOD

[athene1399]

I'm so glad it's over too! It sounded drama free for the time being, so that is good as well. I hope your massage was equally good!