I've started following this forum and it seems the majority of posts are people stuck in relationships with their PD spouse. Whether it be kids or some other commitment.. I haven't seen anyone glad that they're making it work, maybe they just don't come here?
My husband is uASPD, not the worst by far and to a point that he's come to a self-realization about it. He's looking to start therapy (I am too) but in the meantime he's been working on honesty. I honestly can't understand how his brain works, the things he tells me I can't comprehend. Due to other issues (that led to us realizing his traits), I've set up some boundaries that are helping me right now. We are staying in the same house and having a lot of calm, deep, and meaningful conversations. For the most part though, I don't feel safe and I feel our trust is very broken. I'm trying to believe that he's working on himself. Is it possible for us to work through this and heal? Is it possible to have a strong, happy, healthy marriage with a person who has a PD?
I value happiness very highly, emotions are important to me, does that make it impossible to be a successful wife for him?
That's a tough question for me to answer. There are days I'm somewhat content in my marriage, when things are going as smoothly as they can go with a PD spouse. But my marriage is far from healthy and sometimes I feel more single than married. I don't feel emotionally safe with my husband either and it's difficult to completely relax when he's nearby.
I think whether it's possible to have a decent marriage with a PD person depends on how extreme or mild their traits are and on how well you learn to interact with them and use the tools mentioned on this site. It sounds like your husband is much more aware of his issues than most which should give you hope.
Glad you found this forum, searching, welcome. It has been beyond helpful for me in the last ten months since I landed. It has been my experience, that what you are asking is something only you can answer for yourself. I think the only way to know is if you are true to yourself, validate yourself and are honest with yourself. There are many factors to take into account: length of relationship, severity of PD traits or behaviors, awareness and honest of the person without PD in the relationship, understanding of yourself in the cycle, etc.
I really thought for years that if I could get my hwNPD to see how mean and nasty and hurtful he was being with his words, our marriage and relationship would be okay. I thought that is what needed to happen- the magic bullet. The reality I have come to find out is that I needed to change too, I became an enabler of the cycle. I am not saying it was my fault at all, please don't mistake my acceptance of my role as accepting blame for his actions or words. When he finally did have his light bulb moment of how verbally and emotionally abusive he was being, because I think I had reached the end of the line and had detached (plus his mother died, which I think released him in some ways) and the yelling, name calling, belittling, shaming, blaming, etc. stopped (for the most part) he assumed we could move forward and be stronger together, closer than we were before. The controlling hasn't stopped and even though he is understanding more about himself, he has yet to truly show respect for the space that I have been asking for.
For me, because I was living in such a stressful environment on a daily basis and didn't realize how bad it was, my eyes only recently opened to how disconnected we had truly become. I am now able to be honest with myself, and have recently started being more honest with him about the fact that I don't trust him. And I mean I don't trust him with much of any information about myself- not what I want, my dreams, my goals, sensitive emotional topics about my kids, etc. I have crafted a life in the same house AROUND him. If it was something he would find irritating or an inconvenience, I didn't let him see it- even charity work. I wouldn't ask him to pick something up from the store if I thought it would irritate him, I wouldn't go out without him if I thought he would be bothered, etc. I thought I was eyes wide open with my life, but as I have peeled the layers back and started to focus on me and what I need, it has been an eye opener of what my marriage and relationship really is; I realize that I have been in denial and lying to myself for a really long time.
It is my opinion that the only way we can find an answer for ourselves is to learn about ourselves. We need to learn why we felt it was okay to accept, deny, allow, and concede our feelings, opinions, voice and value. If we can acknowledge that with honestly, and accept and love ourself, we have a better shot of owning our decision and ultimately our lives so we can truly be happy.
I think that's an interesting question. I do have days when I'm very happy to be with BPDH. He has a lot of good qualities: family (and our relationship) are extremely important to him, he is honest and takes his commitments seriously, his intentions are good, he works hard at his job, and he has overcome some very difficult challenges. I do love, respect and admire him.
I am not sure what the future will hold once our kids are older. Right now therapy is helping and I hope that will continue and we will be in a better place next year in our marriage. We'll see!
Hello, searchingforanswers
No, I'm not "glad." I think all the benefits of marriage are hers -- me coming to the rescue, keeping a roof over her head, caretaking, blah blah blah.
I was raised in a very dysfunctional home and had some bad things happen as a teen/young adult. TBH, I was coming out of a deep depression when we met and she seemed fun, etc etc.
Things seemed peachy for a couple of years but then she seemed to unravel and her serious mental illnesses, which she DID tell me about, but which I didn't understand, came out and caused problems again. Well, and she also has a drinking/pill problem...
Long story short, 25 years later I can't believe I have been such a "stand by your gal" woman. It's pretty sad. I saw my mother do the same thing and always wondered why... I don't know what it is. Failure to see reality? Stubbornness on my part? Desire to be loved and thinking nobody else does?
QuoteThat's a tough question for me to answer. There are days I'm somewhat content in my marriage, when things are going as smoothly as they can go with a PD spouse. But my marriage is far from healthy and sometimes I feel more single than married. I don't feel emotionally safe with my husband wife either and it's difficult to completely relax when he's nearby.
I just changed one word. The thing I had to realize is that I have take care of myself first. I nearly allowed myself to get caught up in despair. I working to shake that off. Some days are better than others but I'm progressing.
Am I glad I got married? Well..I justify that with the fact that I have 4 awesome kids. That's the only reason. The negatives outweigh the positives.
Hi Searching,
You said, "I value happiness very highly, emotions are important to me, does that make it impossible to be a successful wife for him?"
I would say no, but for you to be happy, you will probably have to redefine success. I look at it a little like the "Welcome to Holland" piece written for parents of a disabled child. We think we've planned a trip to Italy, and instead we have ended up in Holland. Although I think the metaphor for being married to someone with a PD lands us in, I don't know, a jungle somewhere. (and I'm Jane, ha ha)
https://www.ndss.org/resources/a-parents-perspective/
The rollercoaster ride has brought me to new worlds, even as I've experienced very low lows. As vonmoot said, my children are a true gift. And I have been pushed into the arms of a loving God who I have been found to be only a whisper away. This I would never trade.
Mary
Hello.
I read this forum heavily from 2011-2015. When you do that, you get a sense of the rhythms. What I observed is that the stories are the same, over and over and that people tend to divide into two groups: 1) people that stay with the PD; 2) people that get out.
That is the moment where the stories change a bit, for only the people in group 2. In whatever way possible, the PD will try to keep sucking their family member back in (especially if there are children). But the people who divorce (or walk away from other family members) and go as low-contact as possible - their stories begin to have happiness in them. They get better at boundaries. They replace toxic relationships with healthy ones. They begin to enjoy freedom and joy they did not even know they were missing.
Of course, the forums are self-selecting and worth only what anecdotes are worth. But I read them a lot for a long time. These observations I made led me to decide to leave my marriage. It was painful (because I loved my husband and wanted, more than anything, to help him be whole) and because he fought and continues to fight with incredible persistence. We have young children and the battles have been mentally, emotionally and financially horrific. I knew they would be all along. Which is why it took me so long to decide to be done.
On the other side of this heartbreak, I have to say - truly I am more happy than I ever imagined I could be in this life. I now know this could never have happened if I have stayed with my ex-husband.
What makes me happy now?
- I am not being re-traumatized every day. This lets me dig in to grow and to heal;
- I no longer make choices because of fear (fear of loneliness, fear of losing my husband and family, fear of rocking the boat, fear of never rocking the boat, god - there was so much fear);
- Once I made space in my life for goodness, I actually made many new relationships. New friends, who were far more healthy. A far better relationship with my children. And, a new partner, who has redefined everything I know about what a relationship can be;
- Control over my finances, even though they are depleted from court battles;
- Respect and recognition from the few friends that stayed. They love the new me;
- I have an amazing new hobby that I adore. I never had free time before, because my ex and the messes he made sucked it up.
I think I could keep typing this list for a long time. I am happy and grateful and, honestly, elated about the life I have in front of me. But, I do not know if what I am writing is what you hoped to hear. I am sorry for it. I wish you well as you chart your course.
Quote from: Arkhangelsk on June 13, 2019, 10:52:38 AM
Hello.
I read this forum heavily from 2011-2015. When you do that, you get a sense of the rhythms. What I observed is that the stories are the same, over and over and that people tend to divide into two groups: 1) people that stay with the PD; 2) people that get out.
That is the moment where the stories change a bit, for only the people in group 2. In whatever way possible, the PD will try to keep sucking their family member back in (especially if there are children). But the people who divorce (or walk away from other family members) and go as low-contact as possible - their stories begin to have happiness in them. They get better at boundaries. They replace toxic relationships with healthy ones. They begin to enjoy freedom and joy they did not even know they were missing.
Of course, the forums are self-selecting and worth only what anecdotes are worth. But I read them a lot for a long time. These observations I made led me to decide to leave my marriage. It was painful (because I loved my husband and wanted, more than anything, to help him be whole) and because he fought and continues to fight with incredible persistence. We have young children and the battles have been mentally, emotionally and financially horrific. I knew they would be all along. Which is why it took me so long to decide to be done.
On the other side of this heartbreak, I have to say - truly I am more happy than I ever imagined I could be in this life. I now know this could never have happened if I have stayed with my ex-husband.
What makes me happy now?
- I am not being re-traumatized every day. This lets me dig in to grow and to heal;
- I no longer make choices because of fear (fear of loneliness, fear of losing my husband and family, fear of rocking the boat, fear of never rocking the boat, god - there was so much fear);
- Once I made space in my life for goodness, I actually made many new relationships. New friends, who were far more healthy. A far better relationship with my children. And, a new partner, who has redefined everything I know about what a relationship can be;
- Control over my finances, even though they are depleted from court battles;
- Respect and recognition from the few friends that stayed. They love the new me;
- I have an amazing new hobby that I adore. I never had free time before, because my ex and the messes he made sucked it up.
I think I could keep typing this list for a long time. I am happy and grateful and, honestly, elated about the life I have in front of me. But, I do not know if what I am writing is what you hoped to hear. I am sorry for it. I wish you well as you chart your course.
Thank you for writing this. As someone who is almost out (but is tempted to stay when they are "nice" and "loving") this helped me tremendously. Thank you for sharing this.
Am I glad I'm married? In a generic sense, yes. I have my children. There's a stability to being married that is important to me. Am I happily married? No. I'm so sad that I'll never have a mature, reciprocal relationship with my husband.
You ask if you'll ever be a successful wife for him. I'd encourage you to think about being a happy person for you!
I've found lots of actionable suggestions for finding happiness in spite of hard conditions in Living Successfully with Screwed Up People by Elizabeth R. Brown.
Bohemian -
The "nice" periods are the worst. My husband made some final pushes where he tried to pretend he was reformed that were truly epic. He told me his eyes were open and he was "ready to be the husband I deserved, if only I would let him." But I had seen the pattern for too long. Sure enough, once we were finally living apart, the mean came back with a vengeance.
I deeply, truly feel for you. And I hope you hew to your path.
For the most part I am happy -- happy that I have two wonderful children and happy when I can spend time with my family and my husband when PDmil is not involved. It is DH's enmeshment with PDmil that makes my marriage and the relationship my children have with DH, difficult. The kids and I are carrying hefty bags of resentment that we have had to keep in check. :blink:
What the kids and I don't do anymore is to pretend that we *like* (or even care for) PDmil or that she needs to be an important aspect of our lives. Instead, we focus on ourselves and each other. As sad as it has been (and maddening) the kids and I have learned a lot, thanks to PDmil and DH. When DH travels, there is 100% peace in the house and zero anxiety. We don't have to listen to him talk to PDmil on the phone; we don't have to live in fear knowing that we will have to visit with her either. And even when DH does visit her, we now don't have to feel obliged to accompany him anymore. PDmil laid her cards out on the table making it clear that when we all visit together, she will only speak with DH and ignore the rest of us. She does this in other public situations when other family members are present...and I am certain that many are piecing together exactly who she is based on behavior. What grandmother doesn't dote on their grandchildren? Guess. :evil2:
As for DH, he is no angel in this situation. It is hard because he carries guilt over PDmil being a widow and he also has been sadly brainwashed. Just the other day he said to me that he felt that he was a spoiled jerk of a kid because he was relentless in asking for things -- and what kid doesn't do that? They want more based on what their peers and society around them has! Or they want more to further an interest or something that they feel is important. DH felt that his behavior was wrong because they had little money...but he failed to understand that his behavior was on him and that if his parents got upset or felt bad, that their reaction was on them. As a parent, it comes with the territory. :stars:
DH has a hard time focusing on himself and genuinely feels bad that his parents - though particularly PDmil -- did not and does not want to have all that he has worked very hard for. Him and PDmil are two completely different people -- the difference is that PDmil takes advantage of DH to make up for what she lacks and does not have and DH thinks that because they are related by blood that they are of similar mind. :rofl: He's been carrying her dang rope for decades with her having him believe that she has been doing it on her own. :no_shake: NOPE. DH is a very smart man....but his shortcoming is not understanding what kind of person his mother really is. She's played him like a deck of cards for his entire life and I KNOW that when she passes, there are likely going to be some challenging periods for us to get through as a husband and wife. Believe me when I say that when she is gone, I will also change as a person....because I will be the happiest DH has ever seen me. :applause:
Quote from: Arkhangelsk on June 14, 2019, 01:55:25 PM
Bohemian -
The "nice" periods are the worst. My husband made some final pushes where he tried to pretend he was reformed that were truly epic. He told me his eyes were open and he was "ready to be the husband I deserved, if only I would let him." But I had seen the pattern for too long. Sure enough, once we were finally living apart, the mean came back with a vengeance.
I deeply, truly feel for you. And I hope you hew to your path.
This right here is where I am at- and have heard almost this EXACT statement to the letter for months. The difference is that he says I "just need to give him an inch to see his changes, because he has been WOKE and is a new person". Which is NOT happening, because I have realized I just don't want to. My mind and body simply cannot go back, give in, nor even allow any ounce of vulnerability. My hwNPD is FOTY right now, and Mr. giving, thoughtful, doing anything and everything "for me". I genuinely don't even know what to talk about with him right now. Anything I offer as conversation, he takes as being "interested in him" and a connection- which I don't want him to assume.
As I figure out what I want and next steps for myself and my kids- I am so irritated, frustrated, angry, etc with his focus on me being "distant and cold" and how he just has to be strong against the loneliness and hurt he feels, because I need to work through my own feelings- which is a direct result of his verbal and emotional abuse over the last two decades.
Thank you, ark. Your comment was really helpful and a reminder to stay my own course and choose me.
Choose you, Not Broken,
If your partner was really reformed, he would be able to focus in on you and the damage he has done. He would see you need respite.
Instead, he is focused on words of manipulation. He is focused on how he would be amazing - if only YOU would act the way he wants. This is controlling. You are not responsible for it. The only thing you are responsible for is you and the children in your care.
It used to make me sick to think that my only way out was to leave my kids behind 1/2 of the time. (Most states go 50/50 on custody, unless there is physical abuse). But I realized that they needed at least one stable, sane parent to survive. And I could not be stable and sane and married to their father.
This morning I woke up with my 9 year old cuddled on one side of me and my new partner on the other side. We all talked quietly for a bit. My 9 year old told me that his dad hated my new partner and thought I was a bad person for living with him. So we discussed it. It has been 6 years since I asked for a divorce and the man has not changed. But, from this place of safety, I have built a new home and an amazing new life. When I got rid of my PD, I made space for goodness. My son was just fine after our little chat. So I got up and went to the bathroom. When I got back, my son was curled up with his step father and they were both sleeping peacefully.
I never imagined I could feel so good again. I wish I could go back to the terrified, desperate, achingly sad person I was six year ago (and a decade ago, and 2 decades ago) and hold her hand. I would tell her that we can never know the future, but we can make sure that the only people we keep around us cherish us and care for us.
My gladness started out robust but over the past 38 years, it has been whittled down with each episode, circular argument or suicide threat. The bad part is that the frequent times that she is nice or LoveBombs, it erased my memory of the trauma although the mental and physical effects remained in the background. My therapist had me start journaling and that has been an eye-opener. I look at the person on the page and think, why in the world does he put up with that and then I realize that it is me. unfortunately, after this many years, I fear that I am beyond the point of no return as the logistics of getting my life back seem mind-boggling.
Oh, it always reveals only in years and decades. You won't never have understood how good this person is in a few years.
I'm not glad. If I could go back, I wouldn't have done it. My H asked me the other day if I would have gotten married, and I hesitated. He said "it's ok to say no", but it's not ok, so I quickly covered up.
I love my children, so there's that, but my kids are traumatized by this. DD is a young adult, and in therapy for a couple things, but DS is a middle teen.
I've been in therapy before, and need it again.
I think the benefits of being married are all to him. I even say if anything happens to him, I will never ever remarry.
I've spent half my life doing this...I don't know...exhausting soul sucking dance.
I know I'm a new face here, but I just wanted to say it. Everyone's stories read juuuuuust like mine. I stay for right now because I think he'd unleash financial and emotional war and destruction on me, and use our son as a weapon in it. I may reconsider with both children safely out.
Hi, SparkStillLit. As the saying goes, welcome to the club that no one wants to be a member of.
I'm divorced. I love my children more than I thought possible. They make my life worth living. But their dad? Oh, dear, he has so many problems and always did, and other than that having a relationship with him resulted in the creation of our children, marrying him was probably a terrible mistake.
I am really because of the issues in me. My partner picker is broken. So whoever I would have married would have been a PD/alkie/addict of some sort. I am using this time married to uPD H to work on me.
If I had left the marriage to work on me, I most likely would have hooked up with another problem personality person!
Staying with uPD husband stops me doing that! I have been married before but always left before I worked on me. Hence kept repeating my pattern. Time for ME to stop!
Am I happily married in love, no, I have a good life with dh. We have many common interests. He works hard to provide so we can go on nice vacations, travel, go to concerts and out with the gkids which is what we enjoy.
He is a big co-dependent, taking care of everyone else like his mother was and sister is. He can not live alone...like his father. He is not disrespectful to me but lacks emotional connection so because of that there is no intimacy between us. The big problem was that Does Not Open up, we had a major conflict which I tried to address for two years. All he would tell me each time, your're making too much of it and or don't worry. >:( Not a big talker/conversationalist, only the superficial. A man like that does not attract me. I finally pushed him to the brink because he was acting out his unhappiness being slightly aggressive in his driving for example, bitching about everything and everyone. At this point I told him I had enough of it, being triggers from my past, NF That being in a one way street did not resolve anything for me/us and that I was exhausted in trying to repair our relationship alone. He thought I was putting him out the door then and there which I wasn't. He then said we would wait 20 yrs if he had to. Oh gosh. This was one year ago. We do things together but as friends. I'm 64 and the home we live in is mine. If he isn't happy, he can leave and he knows that but he won't.
I told him that he had to work on himself like I worked on myself, I have no more energy to think about him all the time, it wasn't reciprocated when I did. I learned that I have to be happy and content first, he has to do the same. It is very difficult to have a dh who does not open up at all and believe me I tried.
When I came Out of the FOG with my foo, he supported my decision with nc but I lacked his emotional support, big time.
We live like before, having a life but no love life. He just sits and waits expecting me to change or come back to the way I was which won't happen. I don't feel guilty or bad about it. I layed out the cards many times.
I'm concentrating on me now, since coming Out of the FOG I have many things/projects I want to do.
Yes I'm glad I'm married - even with a dxBPDw:
- I'm learning what it means to live out my vows
- my children don't have to deal with divorce and all the fallout emotionally, financially, and spiritually as a result of that choice
- financially, married men make significantly more than single or divorced men which allows me to care for my family and children
- I'm having to take a hard look at myself and realize what caused me to get I to this relationship - I've realized that my grandmother, mother, and step mother all had significant trauma and that subconsciously I found a wife who was almost traumatized with the subconscious hope I could fix my past through fixing her - at least that what my T says.
- I'm protecting my children from having to bear the weight of the care for a PD parent
- I'm learning to love regardless of it being reciprocated
- I'm learning by necessity to take care of myself and be a healthy person, because I don't have the luxury of breaking down. I had almost a mini nervous breakdown in 2015 and lost all physical control of sleep, shaking, etc. I had a short relapse in 2017, and I've had to take a hard look at how I got to that point by not taking care if myself. It was likely a culmination of complex PTSD or secondary trauma related to PD spousal relationship.
- I get to learn everything possible about this thing called BPD and trauma to help my wife, children, and future grandchildren as well as others in the world
- I get to keep the extended family relationships on my W side that have become my own family over last 20 years
- I get to know God in the way of suffering - as Christ did. In my tradition the reality is that God suffers too, and that there is ultimate purpose and redemption in suffering - not needless or abusive suffering- but the struggle of what it means to be committed in sickness and in health. I feel solidarity with those who suffer real, deep, gut wrenching pain and I feel greater compassion because of it.
- I have a greater purpose to not only pursue my own dreams and desires as I thought once upon a time - but now to shepherd and shelter other hurting families and people and call them to hope and care for each other
I could list all the reasons I'm hurting - and there are many right now. Constant stress, unpredictability, lack of intimacy, physical numbness, financial struggles, spouse with constant medical, emotional, and existential crises. But she was traumatized so often and for so long - she didn't choose any of this, and she doesn't want it. She may leave me - she may cheat - she may do all sorts of things I have no control over - but I'm glad I'm married to her. I choose to be glad. I have to choose it or I'd be consumed by the list of current realities in front of me. This is the irony of a "happy" marriage - you have to choose it to experience it. I hate that it is that way - but there is no perfect partner who will make me happy. I have to choose to build a happy life and just do the next right thing. If I needed to separate because of abusive behavior - then I would. If I needed to shield my kids from unsafe behavior - I would. But it's my choice, and that doesn't mean I'm. It committed to the relationship.
I used to be much more hopeful and committed to trying to make things better, but things are only getting worse. He refuses to get help and doesn't think he needs to change. I've been detaching more and more and it hard. I feel very alone and I am Relaizing more and more that this isn't something I can keep doing because it's making me physically sick and hard to function at times. I can't discuss my feelings, goals, dreams. I fear holidays and my birthday because its painful. I'm starting to work on taking care of me and build a life without him. I have a way to go and have to get myself financially ready, but I'm gonna eventually leave. The good times aren't worth it anymore. I want to be happy and healthy. I wish I could say I wanted to stay. I used to. I just can't take the abuse anymore.
Quote from: Pinky on September 22, 2019, 07:39:45 PM
I used to be much more hopeful and committed to trying to make things better, but things are only getting worse. He refuses to get help and doesn't think he needs to change. I've been detaching more and more and it hard. I feel very alone and I am Relaizing more and more that this isn't something I can keep doing because it's making me physically sick and hard to function at times. I can't discuss my feelings, goals, dreams. I fear holidays and my birthday because its painful. I'm starting to work on taking care of me and build a life without him. I have a way to go and have to get myself financially ready, but I'm gonna eventually leave. The good times aren't worth it anymore. I want to be happy and healthy. I wish I could say I wanted to stay. I used to. I just can't take the abuse anymore.
My heart goes out to you. :hug: Detachment helps a lot and it sounds like your coming Out of the FOG. Hold tight to yourself and yourself alone. :bighug: This time of year can bring on depression because the holidays the PD people in our lives can ruin them. Make new memories for yourself, see a therapist, you are worth it. :) Keep coming back to this forum(especially with the holidays ramping up) use the tools in the toolbox it can get you through. It sounds like you are on your way to making yourself number one for a change. :yes:
I used to be an evangelical Christian, HH.
So your perspective is something I know about. I wish you well on your chosen path. We all have to navigate this things best we can, as our conscience dictates. But it does make me very sad to read your post.
I regret marrying my expdh. Ignored many red flags but I was too young anyway to understand what I was getting into. Today, I have lost my home from the ongoing legal battle and may never recover financially. But I am mentally and physically safe having separated. I don't regret leaving. And I will NEVER invest in another relationship. Freedom is priceless. No more being controlled. No man will ever treat me like that again.
Nope, but as we have children together the notion of marriage means little really as all anyone is really focused on is the upbringing of the children.
Thing is I blame myself. I ignored so many warning signs that screamed run. The only bright side is seeing two beautiful children grow
I've been watching this topic for months and finally decided to answer. The answer, ultimately, is yes I am glad I married my uNPDh. Dealing with his behavior meant that I built a strong foundation of right and wrong that I could teach my children because I wanted them to learn the right way, not their father's way. I had to find a way to limit the damage my husband and the crazy that came partly from my family and mostly from his (sorry but it's true). I learned to verbalize how people should interact, how people should respond when faced with negative actions, and talk about making love a choice and not an accidental feeling. I chose to stay in the marriage because I thought and still think that it was the best way to protect my kids from him as they would have had NO protection if I wasn't present. I talked with them about boundaries when they saw mine violated by their father. I sometimes had to privately talk with them about what they'd just witnessed from their father and evaluate it's effect, trying to find a way to do that without tearing him down or making them feel less because they were his child and they loved him. I had to give the Golden Child perspective and the Scape Goat a refuge and encouragement. I talked with them about dating as a time to choose if this person was what, not just who, you wanted in your life and about making a choice for the long term. Not everyone can or should stay but I literally did the best I could do, not just the best that I was willing to do,
At a family wedding, my husband made a statement using my words. He said that "attitude counts," he said that "we must choose to treat those we love like we love them," he said that "we shouldn't act in ways that force us to constantly depend on our spouse's good nature" and more. It was a shock as I didn't think he'd heard a word coming out of my mouth all those years. I wish he'd actually put that and other wisdom in action. Perhaps then I would still love him. He is a better man because he married me. I am a better woman because I was faced with challenges that I had to meet. But it has been very hard and the work never ends and now I'm tied to a man from whom I cringe away. Am I happy I married him? No. Am I happy I am still married today? I am happy with the financial and social stability that my marriage brings me as I head toward retirement age. I think I've done a good job. I am thinking, though, that he doesn't understand that he's BEEN my job and just what my retirement might mean.
Quote from: Fae Greenwood on November 15, 2019, 12:26:01 AM
I am thinking, though, that he doesn't understand that he's BEEN my job and just what my retirement might mean.
Fae, everything you wrote resonated with me. I am literally teary reading your words. Especially this last part...like you, it has been my "job" to deal with DH and I know it will have a huge impact during our empty nester years/PDMil's death/retirement. My anxiety is huge thinking about this uncharted territory. Obviously DH plays a significant role in all of this as my spouse. His way of behaving (enmeshed GC/enabler, fleas, etc.) over the last number of years has largely been influenced by PDMil and magnified after his father died. This has affected the way he has treated me and our teens -- a very different man than whom I married.
If DH is unable to simmer down after all of the above life changes, then my future will need a different course of action. Like you, I will need some peace as I am exhausted. My health is letting me know that I cannot do this forever.
If you’d asked me I would have said I was happy when I was married. The “we are different, I can fix this” story I told myself kept me in the marriage and gave me something to focus on. I was proud that I supported the both of us and I was giving up so much to help this damaged person who just needed to be loved the right way. Genuinely proud. I sacrificed so much and made sure everyone knew it. My dysfunctional, abusive marriage was my entire identity.
Now after years of therapy and learning about codependence I see how I used my BPDxH’s issues as a distraction from mine. I also wanted to honor my vows, I thought that good, decent people don’t leave those in need, that this was my life lesson, that God brought us together for a reason.
I don’t blame my ex. I see now how broken I was and how I could only pick other equally broken people. I mean even as a kid if I had some silly crush on a movie star or a tv character it would be with the most broken, “needy” one. If I hadn’t married my ex I would have married someone exactly like him BUT I found something inside me that caused me to look at myself and acknowledge my role in the marriage. I was abused and in an abusive marriage because I picked an abuser. No more, no less. Today I attract and am attracted to totally different people. There’s something about “broken” people that now repels me where as before it drew me in.
I’ve said before that if I met my ex in a bar today I wouldn’t let him by me a drink, but really if he saw me he wouldn’t offer, he’d look straight past me to someone as broken as I used to be.
So yeah at the time I was happy in my marriage and it was fulfilling some needs I had at the time. Today I wouldn’t be happy in that same marriage.
I also want to add that I do not blame my BPDxH for the abuse and awful things he did. As I said above, it it hadn’t been him it would have been someone just like him. I picked someone who couldn’t give me what I wanted and needed. Instead of walking away I tried to control his behavior and actions, tried to force him to be someone he wasn’t. I chose over and over again to stay and force him to be someone he didn’t want to be. Yes I wanted him to get a job, be present, not abuse me. These all sound reasonable but he wasn’t capable of giving them and one could argue that it was equally abusive and controlling of me to try and force him to be anything other than what he was. We both wanted something the other was never going to give.
These are very honest words, and they describe me and my ex, too: "Yes I wanted him to get a job, be present, not abuse me. These all sound reasonable but he wasn't capable of giving them and one could argue that it was equally abusive and controlling of me to try and force him to be anything other than what he was. We both wanted something the other was never going to give." Thank you, GettingOOTF
Heady, powerful stuff, GettingOOTF.
I had such a similar narrative in my head. I am so goddamn grateful I shifted things.
I think my answer to this question is "yes" right now. If we hadn't been married--if we hadn't had a kid together--I don't think I would have made the effort I have made to try to keep this relationship. I'm not saying I've done all the work. My husband has also done a lot of work this past year in therapy and 12 step meetings. But I wouldn't have stuck around to see him do that work. I've learned a lot about myself this past year, about codependency and the issues that brought me into and kept me in this relationship for so long. Things aren't perfect, but I believe that if we both keep working hard things can and will improve. I've been starting to get more into spiritual growth lately--learning to ask for a higher power to help guide me in my decisions and actions. That's really hard for me, since I'm pretty agnostic. But I think these new perspectives are helpful. I could look at my marriage as a horrible situation that was thrust on to me by someone who lied about who they were. Or I could look at this as a necessary lesson for me, one that I needed to experience to learn and grow as a person. So I'm still learning and growing. That does not mean that I will stay in this marriage forever, but for right now I'm going to stick it out until I feel that I'm done learning.
I love your post, MountainGal.
This is a difficult question, but it's been interesting to read the responses. I am overwhelmed at how similar many of these are to my own situation. I guess almost all of us with children are hard pressed to state that we regret our marriages. And for many of us, we have experienced significant personal growth as a result of trying to cope with our situations, so there's that. I feel sad, though, when I look back at my former self, who for years languished in an abusive dynamic I could not name. I always knew something was extra difficult about my marriage, but I thought that it was my fault. After years of therapy and educating myself, I now know what this is, and has always been. Abuse. The endless cycle of blame, accusations, interrogations, threats, suspicions, name calling, character attacks, and physical aggression— all of which I was willing to forgive and forget the moment he'd say something to me like "Do you know how much I love you? You're my wife for life." Wash, rinse, repeat. Now the sad, bleak reality of what this has been all along is sinking in. And I'm left wondering if any of the "good" times were even real? The cuddling on the couch watching movies, camping trips where we'd tell stories by the fire, working side by side contentedly doing projects around the house— a lifetime of good memories that exist alongside the horrors. Yet, I know in my heart that every "good" moment we've shared has been tainted by a little voice in my head saying "Be very careful, this might not last. Don't screw this moment up." I don't know how to answer the question posed on this thread, and I suppose it doesn't matter. It's been a learning experience, if nothing else.
perfect response bat.
Yes, I am. Haven't always been. But am now. He's more lovely than he is BPD. He's working hard on it, as am I in not reacting, in focussing on myself. Both of our extended whole families are rife with BPD, NPD or some sad mix of addiction mental illness...so I'm kinda used to it.
No one else would touch my extended mess of a family with a 10 foot barge-pole quite frankly, and we've been through so much.
He knows me, I know him, we share many things together. Kids, pets, hobbies, a huge house and property we love...friends, memories, family chaos, a movie obsession...and a wicked dark sense of humour. He's weird and crazy but also wise and worldly, funny and cool. As long as we both keep up our health and sleep, our boundaries and manners, all is good enough. Anyone else would be kinda naive and boring I think:-)
Quote from: MountainGal on December 07, 2019, 04:25:06 PM
I think my answer to this question is "yes" right now. If we hadn't been married--if we hadn't had a kid together--I don't think I would have made the effort I have made to try to keep this relationship. I'm not saying I've done all the work. My husband has also done a lot of work this past year in therapy and 12 step meetings. But I wouldn't have stuck around to see him do that work. I've learned a lot about myself this past year, about codependency and the issues that brought me into and kept me in this relationship for so long. Things aren't perfect, but I believe that if we both keep working hard things can and will improve. I've been starting to get more into spiritual growth lately--learning to ask for a higher power to help guide me in my decisions and actions. That's really hard for me, since I'm pretty agnostic. But I think these new perspectives are helpful. I could look at my marriage as a horrible situation that was thrust on to me by someone who lied about who they were. Or I could look at this as a necessary lesson for me, one that I needed to experience to learn and grow as a person. So I'm still learning and growing. That does not mean that I will stay in this marriage forever, but for right now I'm going to stick it out until I feel that I'm done learning.
Quote from: feelingflatnumb on December 17, 2019, 09:49:45 PM
Yes, I am. Haven't always been. But am now. He's more lovely than he is BPD. He's working hard on it, as am I in not reacting, in focussing on myself. Both of our extended whole families are rife with BPD, NPD or some sad mix of addiction mental illness...so I'm kinda used to it.
No one else would touch my extended mess of a family with a 10 foot barge-pole quite frankly, and we've been through so much.
He knows me, I know him, we share many things together. Kids, pets, hobbies, a huge house and property we love...friends, memories, family chaos, a movie obsession...and a wicked dark sense of humour. He's weird and crazy but also wise and worldly, funny and cool. As long as we both keep up our health and sleep, our boundaries and manners, all is good enough. Anyone else would be kinda naive and boring I think:-)
Hi there - new here - and I guess bumping this thread, but just want to say I love these responses.
I've joined this forum due to feeling bewildered and seeking support/similar perspective in my marriage, but I want to say the underlying feeling I have is always hope. I have new boundaries to set but if I stick to them and things get better, then it's worth it. We'll see where they go - the journey right now is more important than the destination - but once the destination starts looking bad, it's time to reassess.
But otherwise, like feelingflatnumb said, I honestly haven't met someone better than my DH ever. We're both so weird, share so many jokes, and intimacy is still alive. I'll take my chances even when things look dark. :)
What a great question. I think happy is the key word here. Happiness comes and goes depending on whether or not I get heartburn from eating pizza.
Really, happy? Maybe on my wedding day. (while I was in blind bliss) I was happy when my children were born, when they each got married, when my grandchildren were born, when I got my dream job, when I lost 25 pds. and the number on the scale was true to my drivers' license and when I found there are people like me here on this website, living with insanity in some form.
Seriously, I am so glad for this site. People, therapists; more than one, told me to consider getting out on my own years ago, but I had children, and I have a broken sense of loyalty. And the biblical thing kicked in, along with being unable to tell anyone what was really going on in my house.
I spent many years crying alone... looking at my beautiful children unable to bring sadness into their lives for my sake. I was and always have been a natural actress. I learned it in my foo. Pretend and it all goes away. when unpdh went to work, or watched a game...whatever; after tormenting my soul with something I said I needed from him. (emotional) I had no clue it was a personality disorder.
No, happiness is not a part of my vocabulary in marriage but I am happy with myself. I am happy about how much I have grown to be more than his victim. I am happy there is an answer to why for 40+ years I knew something was askew and now I have answers.
He too doesn't care much for me. (always if one considers the un) I get love bombed and told he has to "pray" each morning to love me. Really! I take all the good I can get out of it. I don't want to get up to get my own coffee sometimes, and now that I know it is love bombing, I enjoy that I am getting what I want but he is not. I am no longer his victim for that stuff. I just take it with a grain of salt that HE has to do these things. My one friend who knows about all this tells me "receive the good from God," it isn't coming genuinely from unpdh.
I have a beautiful home, I love being in it. I love where I live. He says very little. We are kind most of the time to each other. My life does not feel repairable at this point. I am making the best of it.
I NEVER would have gone near his charming sweet smile and good looks, had I come from a normal healthy family. We all have issues. I appreciate the people here who have gotten out while they were young.
I can't live in sad. It has made me ill in the past. Anxiety related ailments are in my past due to fretting and not understanding I can't get ice cream out of a hardware store.
My childhood was riddled with parental drinking and drama, so I will not fault myself for never knowing what normal is. I DO know abnormal and have lived it my whole life. It makes me sad, but I still have hope for my own life. Not ours. I am too old and would be too poor to live on my own.., for what?
We have beautiful grandchildren. We do enjoy all of them together and we have some good times. Mostly through the years I have put the effort into gatherings etc.
Alone we are not so good together over longer periods of time. (now he is retired, it's own nightmare) I manage, I have interests. I am a diehard optimist, which is why I am still here. This is childish thinking. I know nothing will change, I can't see him "repenting" of his GIANT ego. However, I am a good person, and I know I deserve better. Little by little I am standing up to insanity when it comes my way. I must learn to live my own life, whether or not he changes or gives me what I think I want. Apparently, I want the distance I have now. I think I kind of like it.
Quote from: GentleSoul on September 16, 2019, 03:28:40 AM
I am really because of the issues in me. My partner picker is broken. So whoever I would have married would have been a PD/alkie/addict of some sort. I am using this time married to uPD H to work on me.
If I had left the marriage to work on me, I most likely would have hooked up with another problem personality person!
Staying with uPD husband stops me doing that! I have been married before but always left before I worked on me. Hence kept repeating my pattern. Time for ME to stop!
I can empathize with this. One reason I stay is that I think that uPD W forces me to confront many of my issues, and that I can grow by learning to have boundaries with her, be compassionate, turn the other cheek, do what's hard instead of what's easy, learn to hear how I've hurt others, learn to understand and be considerate of someone very different than me, etc. Maybe it's all just a rationalization, but it does feel like the marriage offers learning and growth alongside the blame and insults.
Quote from: Arkhangelsk on June 13, 2019, 10:52:38 AM
Hello.
I read this forum heavily from 2011-2015. When you do that, you get a sense of the rhythms. What I observed is that the stories are the same, over and over and that people tend to divide into two groups: 1) people that stay with the PD; 2) people that get out.
If you have any observations about the patterns of who in Group 1 ends up feeling happy and glad about their choice, I'm very interested. If they're never happy or glad, well, that's interesting too (but more sad).