I was intellectually prepared, but not emotionally.
A few days after our divorce was finalized, my ex-PD husband began to attend events (son's baseball game) with his new supply. She was my "friend" and part of a married couple that used to come to our house for dinner. They had an affair and our marriage ended a few years later. So yeah, that stings a little. Honestly, when I first saw them, I was so sad that she was sitting there with my dog, holding his leash. I loved that dog - we'd go on hikes and walks. Yeah, I lost my dog in the divorce, but I got my cat.
So, with this new relationship, he turned up the volume on his manipulation. Weeks at a time, he wouldn't see our son -he's 18. Now, he's playing new family and they are doing lots of things with the new supply and her teenage daughter. He bought himself a motorcycle and then one for my son. And yes, WITH MY MONEY FROM THE DIVORCE SETTLEMENT. It makes me so frustrated. My son thinks he's just amazing now. I get it - yes, my son knows I'm stable, he can count on me, etc.... But, my son also sees me as demanding and critical. I am the one on him about his grades (he's a senior in highschool), college stuff, getting a job, cleaning his disgusting room, showering (teenagers can be so gross), and all the rest. At times, my son can be cruel and lack empathy. I work with teenagers for a living so I know this is typical, but......my son maybe a little more. It scares me at times thinking he'll be like his dad, but I also know this is just stemming from my own issues.
I'm trying to keep it all in perspective, but my emotions are really getting to me. The divorce was finalized on 8/30/2022 and I do believe that I was thinking I'd be magically free from it all. I am free but there are issues that will be there - because of my son. If I felt a little respect or compassion from son, I would feel better. I also know it's unreasonable to expect this of him now. I just can't help it.....
I'm thankful for the new supply - she was why he was willing to sell the house and move forward with the divorce. I found out she asked for a divorce around the time he agreed to list our house for sale. I think he's trying to keep his facade going for awhile- my guess so that he can move in with her, cement the relationship, then the love bombing will end and it'll get ugly. I doubt he's working, but he has MY MONEY to look good. He bought a new truck, the motorcycles, and he'll have money for about 6 months to keep this going. The BAM all over. I feel a little bad for her knowing what's going to happen to her - maybe in weeks? months? years? But it will. I am also so incredibly thankful that's not me and that he is no longer in my life.
The hurt comes because of my son - I'm angry at him for being in the fog (not fair), I'm angry at him for being an ass to me (not fair), I'm angry at him for interacting with this new fake family (not fair), I'm angry at him for never standing up for me (incredibly not fair).
Bottom line, I'm angry at myself for having all these negative feelings towards my son - I know they are wrong but I can't let it go. Right now, I'm just trying to refocus on my own self care and writing here this morning.
Any comments or advice will be greatly appreciated - I really need support to get myself in a better place.
Dis-placed anger and resentment. You have so much going on and none of it is your son's fault, you know that and yet.....
The fault lies firmly with your ex and his new supply, she betrayed you too. Sitting there with your dog. They have behaved like school kids choosing a new best friend. I don't think she deserves any grateful thoughts about taking the ex on.
Your son at 18 years old is not mature enough to realise how his behaviour impacts on you. He's actually just a big kid who society has declared is now a adult based purely on a number.
Is it because you are left with the role of being parent while the ex just changed direction straight out of any meaningful role of being a father.
There's so much going on. It's early days. And you, are an excellent thoughtful and caring person.
Plant Flowers, I want to bump this post up so that others may see it and respond.
I very much feel for you as I've been/am in a similar situation myself.
I'll write more once I've finished work for the day. But in the meantime.. what you're feeling and thinking is completely valid and normal. Try to go easy on yourself. I'd be surprised if you weren't feeling all that you described.
I feel angry and upset with you. Your post brought up several memories from my own experience. So, know that you're not alone.
AOD
I am so sorry! Really. I have also been there and it is not a good place to be. Please keep on reaching out. You need support right now. You need all the support you can get. You need friends or even only acquaintances that you can have coffee with and not talk about your ex. Ideally they don't even know or care about him, they share an interest with you and you can feel normal with them for a few hours. You like walking, so maybe you find people you can walk with. Do you have any women friends? You could join one or several 12 step groups, I found a lot of support there. Your son will be leaving soon, so you can prepare for single life now. Getting to know yourself as a single person. Finding out what interests you and what gets you going, gives you energy and joy.
You can try this method
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lgNcleF-sDk
for your anger.
Please let this be a wonderful time in your life, where you re-discover yourself and get to know the wonderful person you are without the stress and control of a PD person in your life.
Quote from: notrightinthehead on October 03, 2022, 04:11:51 AM
I am so sorry! Really. I have also been there and it is not a good place to be. Please keep on reaching out. You need support right now. You need all the support you can get. You need friends or even only acquaintances that you can have coffee with and not talk about your ex. Ideally they don't even know or care about him, they share an interest with you and you can feel normal with them for a few hours. You like walking, so maybe you find people you can walk with. Do you have any women friends? You could join one or several 12 step groups, I found a lot of support there. Your son will be leaving soon, so you can prepare for single life now. Getting to know yourself as a single person. Finding out what interests you and what gets you going, gives you energy and joy.
You can try this method
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lgNcleF-sDk
for your anger.
Please let this be a wonderful time in your life, where you re-discover yourself and get to know the wonderful person you are without the stress and control of a PD person in your life.
:like:
Sorry you are experiencing these things and I like NRITH's outlook. Not only for you, but for my future self.
SoT
Quote from: Associate of Daniel on October 02, 2022, 09:20:36 PM
Plant Flowers, I want to bump this post up so that others may see it and respond.
I very much feel for you as I've been/am in a similar situation myself.
I'll write more once I've finished work for the day. But in the meantime.. what you're feeling and thinking is completely valid and normal. Try to go easy on yourself. I'd be surprised if you weren't feeling all that you described.
I feel angry and upset with you. Your post brought up several memories from my own experience. So, know that you're not alone.
AOD
:like:
I love this supportive post from AOD and desire to 'bump up this post' in support from others. 😊
SoT
PFNW, first off, congratulations on the divorce!! :elephant: That is an amazing step, and true, it didn't solve all your problems, but gosh...even the administrative burden alone must be a weight lifted off your shoulders.
I hear your pain with regard to your ex spending your money. This may be a long shot, but can you take satisfaction in the fact that it's your money that's going to eventually cause the fall that you know is coming?
Re your son, I often get frustrated at how my SO's kids treat him (SO's ex is uNPD and does her best to alienate the kids in their late teens). There's nothing blatant, just sometimes lack of communication, lack of time spent together, or lack of interest in SO's perspective. Interestingly, it barely bothers SO. It bothers him that he doesn't see his kids as much as he'd want, for their sake and for his, but he knows what they're up against. He knows that the kids just want to see both their parents happy, and going against their mother makes her unhappy, so they fall in line. He himself was the SG target for 20 years before leaving, so he doesn't blame them in the least for enabling her, just like he'd done for so long. I try to see it that way too, but it's hard.
Re "playing family", while your ex might see it that way, I doubt your son does. Your ex's new supply is just a random person who your son knew before, and probably has no issue with, so he's just going along with things to keep everything going smoothly. And to keep getting gifts from his dad. But that will end. And on that note, your ex has to be on his best behavior in front of his new supply and especially when they're with her daughter. His mask will slip.
I hope your son starts taking a bit more responsibility for his own grades (and hygiene!) :o :)
Be well.
OT
Re: the money. I get it.
I had to borrow nearly $100,000 from my parents to pay my uNPD exH. Nearly 10 years later I still feel sick at the memory. And he's still earning 6 figures and living with his uNPD wife, the woman he left me for, who earns probably about the same as him.
Try to think of the money as a bill you had to pay, just like any other. And remember the freedom it brought to you. (I'm preaching to myself here.)
Re: your dog. I get it.
Except in my case it was my 6 year old son, sitting on his uNPD smother's lap and ignoring me or pushing me away (even while his uNPD father and I were still married). At every swimming lesson. Every medical appointment. Every sports activity. Every school activity.
Thankfully at almost 16 he's now grown out of that.
Re: NRITH's post: I totally agree.
There is something about realising you have a talent or ability that your ex and his partner don't have. And even without your ex and his wife, just doing the thing you're good at, with like minded people, is very cathartic and boosts confidence.
What sort of things did you used to do before you got together with your ex? Could you return to some of them? For me it was playing music. Strangely, I have 2 performances coming up at the end of the month. They just kind of landed in my lap and I am loving getting back into learning repertoire and working with like minded people.
PFNW, (Love your name, btw!), I so feel for you. Since your son is now 18, you won't have to see his father and his supply for much longer and you can get on with your life. There will be occasions to see them of course, but by then you'll have processed more grief and gathered more tools for dealing with them.
Keep posting here. There are many of us who are travelling the same road that you are. All the very best.
AOD
PlantFlowers,
I keep returning to this post repetitively, trying to put myself in your shoes. Statistically, as a male with a uPDstbxw, i would be surprised if my future divorce reveals a long-standing male companion. But then, ive been surprised before; covertly surprised at some of the manipulative maneuvers that I missed in my FOGgy years.
Again so very sorry you are experiencing the issues with your son and can surely understand how he's enamored at the temporary gifts. But i have confidence that the gifts he has received that wont fade, are the love, time, energy, concern and care you have given him over the years. I say that because im one of those sons.
I was raised by a uNPDfather who was fortunate in business and gave us kids big gifts, and took us on lavish trips, but emotionally, verbally and financially abuses my mother. She is still fully in the FOG and defends him staunchly. He also emotionally, verbally and on some high-testosterone driven occasions, lashed out physically at us kids. But he always came back around with gifts, trips and fun experiences.
But it was the lasting impressions of my mother's dedication that never waned with me. Now Out of the FOG, I can fully understand his motives and also fully understand my mother's struggle to try and keep her own head above water while raising us kids. Nothing i can do about her caretaking as she emotionally shuts down if I try to discuss my uNPDfathers traits, but my mother is a hero, both to me, my sibling and many others as well.
Thoughts and prayers for you going forward and congrats on finalizing the divorce.
SoT
Thank you for all the replies. SoT, I always appreciate your words.
just doing the thing you're good at, with like minded people, is very cathartic and boosts confidence.
I am trying to focus on myself - I feel like after 20 years of that marriage, even the good times, I lost myself. I've returned to playing golf - I love it and have met some nice friends along the way. We all know - having your own friends in the fog is almost impossible, or it comes at such a huge price, so you let them go. I really like re-connecting with the human race!!!!! And, my relationship with my brother has improved drastically.
With the money, I just want to tell my son - yeah, I bought that truck he has....or that Harley Davidson - yeah, I bought that too. UGH. I do try to reframe my thoughts and I like the suggestions. The money was worth my freedom and my money is boosting him way up, but then the fall will be much harder :yes:
I'm trying to be more compassionate in my mind/thoughts about my son. That's helping somewhat.
The struggle is real, but I would take this struggle a million times over trying to breath deep in the fog.
My NEx ditched me and moved straight in with the woman he cheated on me with. As in, straight from my house to hers! :stars:
The shame of it was horrendous.
A year later she contacted me to tell me he was being abusive, and he contacted me to ask if he could move back in ::)
Four years later they've split up after a ton of drama and he is in a state. I meanwhile am thriving and look about 10 years younger!
So i understand how painful all this is but I agree that the new supply can be a blessing in disguise as they get the narc out of your hair. Good luck building your fabulous new life. In a year or so, everything will look much different, you mark my words
Hattie - what a story - wow.
The farther away I get from the relationship the more I can see how I was trauma bonded to him - it's so habitual and subconscious. Earlier, I was going through the last few financial items that tie us together and I thought "oh, how is he going to pay for the insurance on the cabin? I hope he doesn't forget" WHATTT??? Why did I care even for a second. At least I recognize it now.
Thanx for sharing your story - I'm looking younger too :applause:
PlantFlowers,
I wanted to offer my support to this post, and share a little to possibly help you take the sting out of some of it. My kids are a bit younger, early teens. However, being nearly two years in, the new has worn off the dirt bikes, the horses, etc. Even at their relatively young and impressionable age, they see it for what it is, and now dread their mandated EOW with him. I try to help them make the best of it.
Funny about the insurance...DS13 mentioned recently that his dad had forgotten to renew his drivers license, and it had expired. I took care of most things like that, but couldn't get his photo on there for him. It was one of the few things he had to do himself. I remember it lapsed once for more than a year. I overheard DS ask him this week, if he'd remembered to get it renewed yet. No. Proof things in PD land never change.
The aging in reverse...it's real! We are literally reclaiming lost years of our lives here. :D
I can relate to all of this even though my divorce was over 20 years ago. My ex left for one of the women he cheated on me with. I have no ill will towards her as I am she he fed her a lot of BS and she didn't know better. In fact I wanted to warn her. The kids were little at the time. It was a knife through my heart every time they got excited to see him. Your son is dazzled by all the goodies your ex is dangling in front of him. Wait until the money runs out. Does your son know why you divorced? My ex did not last long with the woman he left me for. The kids saw him go through a string of women which he'd cut loose as soon as they looked like they wanted to get serious. It wasn't until he got old that he found an older woman that he seems to be sticking it out with. I remarried two years after the divorce which I think shocked him. I think he was counting on me staying single and being available to him once he got all this out of his system. I kept my mouth shut as much as I could and let the kids figure out what he really was on their own. Took them until they were in their late teens. He couldn't be bothered to show up to his son's HS graduation. By 2018 he was not invited to his daughter's college graduation or son's wedding. By the end of the year, they went NC. And to this day I am positive he thinks he did nothing wrong and I must have turned them against him.
The past four days, my son and I played golf each day. It's nice we have an activity to share and be outside. I love it.
Yesterday, we were chatting and he mentioned that his dad said that I was going to get him new golf clubs for his birthday. I never said that - I think my ex set me up to look like the "bad parent" and not come through. And then my son actually said "my dad takes care of me". It was all I could do to not start screaming. My son is deep in the fog. His dad barely saw him over the summer and then, only when he was playing baseball. His father is a great cook - hasn't cooked a home meal for my son since the spring? I provide his clothes, car insurance, helped him get a job for the summer, help with college, buy food, on and on and on. His dad couldn't even be bothered to clean up a bedroom for my son to stay with him.
But, his dad takes care of him. :blink: These narcissists can be pretty powerful.
Quote from: PlantFlowersNotWeeds on October 10, 2022, 09:26:41 PM
The past four days, my son and I played golf each day. It's nice we have an activity to share and be outside. I love it.
Yesterday, we were chatting and he mentioned that his dad said that I was going to get him new golf clubs for his birthday. I never said that - I think my ex set me up to look like the "bad parent" and not come through. And then my son actually said "my dad takes care of me". It was all I could do to not start screaming. My son is deep in the fog. His dad barely saw him over the summer and then, only when he was playing baseball. His father is a great cook - hasn't cooked a home meal for my son since the spring? I provide his clothes, car insurance, helped him get a job for the summer, help with college, buy food, on and on and on. His dad couldn't even be bothered to clean up a bedroom for my son to stay with him.
But, his dad takes care of him. :blink: These narcissists can be pretty powerful.
PlantFlowers, im sorry this is occurring and I agree with you. As you already know, your son is sadly being gaslighted and at the same time, you are triangulated by his father through the son by setting you up in these situations. Both of these, as you know, are emotional abuse by his father.
Since your son is 18 and in that stage of life where adult children are practicing living on their own and steadily adulting themselves, is there a way you can use this crucial time in your son's life for him to gain a real appreciation for the 'cost of living', by your son becoming more financially self-sufficient (food, clothes, car insurance, etc..)
When my adult children had to start purchasing some of these things for themselves, that they previously had been supplied by a parent when they were minors, it was a reality check on the real cost of money and time and the balance of time needed to both earn money and go to college. They both started to focus well on preciousness of time and money, which caused a new awareness of where money comes from, not all spending is fun and that time has to be sacrificed and well-managed for these needed monies to occur.
This may be a difficult parental job to allow this education to occur, as the adult children can go through a period of money/time hardship, but its a lesson well learned and the lesson drives reality. My kids have later confirmed the hardship and also the blessing that this reality teaches. They knew i had their best interest at heart and it had to do with promoting their adulthood, not punishment, and I was very clear to explain that fact and welcome to adulthood!
As a parent, i believe it was my job to look beyond the current hardship lessons and look to a future time of hindsight by adult children who finally 'get' reality. Your son should know that you 100% can afford these things for him, but that you are celebrating and promoting his independence and adulthood, not trying to keep him from reality by supplying these things like you did when he was a minor.
Even if his father tries to supply these items because you are proactively not, your son, over time, will eventually know that you had his real best-interest at heart and were celebrating his adulthood, not trying to buy friendship or self-trophies with money, and truly focused on the son, not trying to compete with his father in any way.
SoT
Ouch!!!
I would have been tempted to, just out of curiosity, ask for examples. "Oh, like how?" Maybe your ex is taking credit for the things that you're actually providing.
But, man, that stings.
Reminds me of the time my ex bought a football jacket for son....then handed me the bill to pay. I handed it right back to him and gave him a piece of my mind. I didn't stand up for myself too often but that pushed me over the edge.
lkdrymom - I had the same thing happen to me with my son's baseball. He wanted to be reimbursed for some league fees - no way. He thinks because I have full physical custody that means I have to reimburse him every time he spends a penny on his own son. :doh:
Hhaw - you have some very valid points and I am going to focus on those lessons with my son more than I have. He is going to get a job soon (after baseball) and he definitely appreciates having his own money. He worked over the summer - more than his dad has worked in years. I do see the link between him gaining his own independence and appreciation of hard work/money, valuable lessons.
His dad just can not stand that I am helping him through the college process - today lots of promises that will go unfulfilled, again. I just wanna point out the obvious - that he's never ever ever done what he said he was going to.
Asking you so what he thinks can be a helpful tool, ime. Kids sometimes get to the truth if we get out of their way.
You want to avoid your son feeling defensive if his father.....maybe say suggest something generous about your ex so your son feels safe enough to air complaints about his father he normally wouldn't.
Listen without judging....your son wI'll be more likely to be honest and share if he feels you aren't judging and attacking his father, ime.
It's really tough, but you're a really good mom.
In the moment I don't think I am, but I am judging his father - in little ways, but yes, and my son sees that I judge his father.
I need to adjust this - I agree, Hhaw - I think if I can judge less it will allow my son to make his own judgements - right now, I am making him defend his dad.
I'll just judge him in my own mind!!!
Thanx
I think I was so naive thinking that once the divorce was behind me things would start to feel better.
I'm in a bad place right now, so I'm looking through it all in a lens of despair.
I know my actions and words have hurt my son and made him feel stressed - unfortunately, my son has a low tolerance, so my room for errors as a mom is not very forgiving
The approaching holidays are difficult for me - I have a very small family, so no holiday functions. I just planned for my son and I to go south from the 25th -29th to go golfing. I thought he could have xmas eve with his dad (that is his dad's favorite time) and then we could go away.
Nope - apparently, I just found out he had plans with our son and his new fake family on xmas day. We've been text fighting - I shouldn't have engaged. And my son won't acknowledge any of this - he blames me and expects me to just let it all go. I'm supposed to give up my vacation with him to make it all easy for everyone.
But.....this was just after finding out that my ex is selling my family's cabin that he got in the divorce. I figured he would, but not this fast.... I just am not ready to see the cabin belong to someone else right. THIS REALLY SUCKS!!!!
So, both issues within minutes of eachother. A big blow. And, my son's reactions I just can't take anymore. My son told me to stop putting him in the middle - I pointed out that both his parents did that and that he is 18 and should have told me that he knew about the xmas day plans with his dad.
I got SO MAD at my son. He is so in the fog and I hate him for that. Yeah, I said it. I can't stand it. I have patience 98% of the time, and then I loose it and that 2% is ruining our relationship. I get it intellectually, but emotionally - it's a struggle. He was there when his father verbally abused me - but he hates me? I told my son that he should me made at his dad - he's selling the cabin that he was going to give to him. I know I crossed the line, and now I can't take it back. I yelled a bit and cried. Acted all "crazy". which doesn't help either. I look like the freak and his dad looks all calm and collected.
This is unrealistic and unfair, but I want my son Out of the FOG and to tell me that he gets it, and that his dad is a real jerk.
Now, my ex will have more cash from the sale of the cabin to keep his charade going even longer with his new supply/family. Which bothers me too. I need to let go - it's so hard.....
I was really looking forward to this vacation - to be away for xmas - have fun with my son playing golf. Now, either I go alone and be alone - which is okay, but gets old. or stay home and be alone and depressed. I guess I'll just go alone :(
I just feel like it I cant' get myself together and stop looking like a freak, my son will not tolerate me anymore. I kinda don't blame him.....
UGHHHHHHH
PlantFlowers,
Im so very sorry this is difficult. I have adult children who feel "put in the middle", of a divorce, although I know that my emotional stbx is contributing to that feeling they share. Like you, i also attempt to live a normal life in the middle of chaos, but i am reminded that chaos is the status quo that my stbx needs to play the drama triangle 🔺 victim.
I remind myself that time will have its own way of revealing truth and therefore i have decided that I will simply lead my normal life, and have an open invitation to my adult children, at all times, if they choose to participate.
Trying to convince my children otherwise, when my stbx's drama is so draining, is like fighting an ocean rip-current. The more I struggle against it, the more exhausted I become. Therefore, I am learning to allow the situational rip current to take me out to see by my myself, and then calmly swim out of it sideways, once the current's undertow has dissipated.
Yes, I am swimming alone, but not nearly as exhausted. Time will have its way of causing the rip currents to come and go, and move to different areas along the shore. Eventually, i believe my stbx's drama will become the norm for my adult kids and they will tire of it themselves, without me being a part. Therefore they will potentially realize there is no "middle", because im not playing my role in my stbx's drama play.
I will have to allow them to adult themselves out of their own rip currents. When they do, they may find themselves allowing the dramatic current to take them out to sea as well, swimming sideways at the proper time, but with calm energy intact. I will be out there patiently waiting and they may realize at that time, that I have been out there all along with open arms and a warm welcome.
SoT
PFNW:
I hope you can find a way to express your feelings and not put your son in the middle. Speaking your truth can be done without judging your son's father or requiring your son choose sides or fight your battle.
Your son didn't marry a PD and make a child with him. You did and you're living with the consequences....you're paying the price, as you have for 20 years. It's steep and there's little justice in it. You' ve been SO strong for so long. I'm afraid you're going to have to continue being strong, but on another level..... changing levels is like adjusting to pressure under the sea, IME. We adjust to it, always and it's mostly uncomfortable adjusting....... even when it's about mostly good changes. Holidays without the PD vs holidays with your son on a particular day. Embrace the PD free holiday and not what you perceive is a loss..... it's acutally going to be better..... but there will be an adjustment period.
You have more choice than you think....... in that...... it's difficult to see when the PD keeps taking things away when you thought it would end at the divorce. You're expectations need a tweak. Releasing outcome, accepting what can'tbe changed..... so very important, IME.
Feeling joy around new rituals and old traditions is what Christmas should be about..... or how I think about it since my ex SIL basically controls our holiday schedule for years now. When we want her to make plans,we benefit from making plans so she can relish snatching them away. We can finally go ahead and make real plans. I was raised in a broken home, so sharing holidays is pretty normal AND my sibs and kids now laugh about SIL's obvious imperative to TAKE our dates and thwart our plans....which isn't a big deal anymore,bc we've accepted it and it's become a funny game till our children have SO's and stop allowing her to play it.
We still make the same holiday foods of the now grown children's childhoods. We still play hide and go seek in the dark with them. We still have magnificent bonfires and coco and pork with sour kraut on New Year's, bc SIL can't resist planning big expensive trips she isn't willing to give up..... and I struggled and suffered for a while, I did.
It wasn't fair.... it was a slap in the face, over and over, but in the end...... the exact days we celebrate don't really matter as long as we get to celebrate together, truthfully.....making the best of what we have means we get the same good feels and happy cookie making and decorating joy that carries through the years, from childhoods into adulthoods...... some kids care more than others,but we provide it and the kids have started leading now. They ALL decorate cookies, even if my brother's children sometimes carry their mother's attitude into it FOR SIL....... we have it and we ignore and give passes and I'll tell you...the last vacation my niece and nephew have grown SO much. Hardly heard their mother come out of their mouths AT ALL. We make the best of it. We realize we lose something precious when we give the SILs' disordered behavior more thought than necessary to get on with the holiday at hand,and sometimes my niece and nephew choose my brother. And my niece has serious issues.....serious FLEAS, shall we say. Difficult to ignore, but we show her how to choose something other than chaos and war when we extend compassion and reflect care back to her demons. The demons are shrinking and that loving baby soul is shining through more and more, PF.
REcently my niece moved in with my brother and nephew, which is HUGE. Niece did this bc my brother holds non judgmental space and empathizes with niece after her mother is unfair and toxic. SIL has been a very immature parent, always. My brother wasn't perfect, but he was a good enough parent and listens to his children now...... doesn't force them to choose...... something he never COULD do, btw. We all make choices every single moment. You can choose something different going forward and you get to be human while doing it. Don't beat yourself up.
I think you can have your feelings, and should. After that, you figure out how to share them with your ds in a non judgmental space..... and you allow him to have his feelings and thoughts, same as you have yours.....wtihout judgment. You can ask him why he feels A,B or C,. but you should drop expectations and learn how to accept whatever you can't change. You might be surprised at what your son has to say. Maybe not,but it's good to be a safe caring space for his honesty, IME.
There's no peace or joy when we NeeeeeeeeeD things to be different thn they are, IME..... surefire recipe for suffering, that is.
Sometimes acceptance is what shifts things so we have more choice and the ability to respond and be responsive,rather than reactive, IME.
Your son needs you to be responsive. He needs you to be the sane, safe, consistent harbor you've always been and it's not fair to ask him to choose sides, IME. You know that. Still..... the injustice flares and raises it's head. I understand.
As difficult as it it so stay neutral..... it will work for you down the road, IME.
Be you. Let your ds be himself and have his feelings. You KNOW his father won't.
Make joyful holiday plans your son remembers and enjoys deeply with you...... no matter what days you get... don't throw them or the chance for joy away.
You can explain your recent upset, without judgment, and how you plan to avoid doing that going forward. You can show your son how to take responsibility, be the adult and take the higher road........ without judging the father, but expressing WHY you feel as you do.
Give your son space to SEE what his father is,without making ds feel defensive of his father..... ds will see much sooner if you remove yourself from the view.
And breathe, PF.
There are safe places to have your difficult feelings and you're entitled to them. You SHOULD have them, but with your son isn't going to get you anything you want, IME.
Get more of what you want, but first get clear on what that is.
Accept what you can't change.
Do what you can do.
You're free of the PD IN YOUR SPACE. Cultivate lovely things in that openess and show your son how to live healthy and PD free.
Shift your POV...... you're not alone when you're not with your son. You have yourself and that's enough.... whole and enough.
Set other dates to celebrate and embrace them fully.
Is there anything you'd like to do with your son this holiday? Golfing,but anything else you usually don't do together? Maybe find a new ritual that's JUST YOURS, with DS.
You decide how you get through Christmas Eve and Christmas Day..... fuming and deflated and on fire OR......
taking a spa holiday somewhere you adore. Learning more about a new passion.... FINDING a new passion for yourself so your son sees how to grow through chaos and cultivate serenity. Volunteering somewhere you care about. Making new Christmas decorations for the hearth and tree you KNOW your son will be happy to see?
There's something you can find and do and feel that's NOT feeling despair and overwhelmed and defeated, PF. What does PF really care about? That's not dependent on someone else? What is PD's, alone, to cherish and cultivate for PF's sake alone?
It's a choice to embrace what one cannot change and do what one can.
When I'm despairing, it's almost always about what I'm resisting..... what I refuse to accept that I cannot change.
Once I accept it, choice opens like an entire world I was denying myself,but could restore with a shift in perspective.
You deserve choice. You deserve joy. So does your son.
Your ex is sewing the seeds he'll eventually harvest for himself. Blech,but not yours to worry about. Not your circus,not your clowns, PF.
That's happening, just as the cabin is sold..... gone. Unfair but happening.
It's a waste to worry and feel done wrong by the PD's current improved situation.
Justice isn't something we cultivate and force....... it's something we allow in it's own time, without regret or worry, to happen, IME.
Releasing outcome, being ever so kind to yourself, getting curious about why you feel as you do.... allowing all the difficult feelings to wash through you...... explore them and what's behind them..... is a worthy endeavor, IME. You deserve to have those feelings and understand where the causes and conditions they sprang from. What comes after the anger is what's particuarly interesting to me, IME. The anger is a messenger..... time to turn towards the cause and explore it, like a new novel.
YOU deserve to be tended to...... there's space for that in your life.
Honestly....
It's a moral imperative.....
tending to yourself.
Showing your son how to cultivate new skills, coping strategies and joy while putting down negative things you can't change.
It's OK to have emotional outbursts.... bc....human.
It's better to explain it and find better ways to cope, IME.
Your relationship with your son isn't ruined. It's growing and growth is always painful, IME.
How amazing is it to overcome and find new homeostasis, PF?
Your new way of being CAN be so much better than it's been with your ex.
I invite you to turn towards that, bc that's where your joy can be found.
Allowing the ex to rob you of ANYTHING else in your life is too unfair, IME. You can control what he takes from you going foward, IME.
A particular day is just a day. Create the holiday you want to have with your son and make the most of it.
My family has made a game of it....and we laugh about it now. Maybe you'll see the humor in it soon too. I hope you do.
I repeat things, bc sometimes I can't hear or see or understand something when I'm upset....and you're upset, so I state and restate.
The PDs take from us and steal what they can.....
and it's our job to interpret it.....
to allow it to make us feel good or bad or indifferent. WE decide how we respond to the PD crazy. We can take back our power and do something amazign with it, stay stuck or some combination is how I usually experience it, but always moving forward. Always understanding I want to take back my power and rise above the intented PD harm to my peace. Overcome. Persevere. Mine the joy always available to me.
Or not.
You have that control, PF. You just haven't remembered it yet,but you will.
You're so smart and such a good parent.
You will.
This discussion rings a lot of bells for me. This Thanksgiving is our first holiday post separation and then Christmas is coming along. At my children's request-- they said it would be easier for them-- I agreed that my stbx would have Thanksgiving Day with them, which was to be at his niece's home. Now their gathering got switched to my son's home so that is going to sting extra hard. And they will be with me and their two grandmas (my 2 moms) the weekend before. But that wasn't good enough for stbx. He made a fuss with the adult child he is closest to that if they came to my house, they had to visit at his house which is in the same town. Well, he has his cheater thingy living with him there and that child got upset, about being pressed to go there, so now we can't have a Thanksgiving celebration at my house at all so he won't have to deal with stbx's pressure on going to his house! We will gather the weekend before at my mom's instead, which is in a rather distant town. I am trying to focus on how that is happy for my mom as stbx would never agree to have any holidays at her house, but it requires some serious silver lining work. I am worried about the future and how the pattern is being laid down of the kids catering to him. For now, I am flying out of state for the actual Thanksgiving day to be with friends, a trip I can't totally afford but ....mental health first.
It does feel like such a mess. Of course the pattern of the family catering to and soothing the narcissist will persist. Even when he is the one who blew the family up with infidelity. And of course as the parent who cares how our kids feel, I will end up not pressing it.
Also, I have sometimes (often at first but less now) lost it in not dragging our adult kids through the suffering and anger and pressure stbx is putting on me. It is so hard for me to consistently respect my kids' boundaries on him. I don't have complete self control on that, and my child who he is closest to, I call a bit less as I know that child is most affected if I say anything that sounds negative related to his dad.
I guess all we can do is keep trying and acknowledge to our kids when we blow it. Such hard stuff.
I'm feeling the same you are with the holidays and with all my exPD shenanigans it's gotten ridiculous.
This is also my first round of holidays post divorce. I have a very small family so I am letting go and enjoying the holiday time I have. I am going to create some new traditions....maybe? I also wish I could go away as you are; I don't have friends this year to travel with, so maybe next. I'm not emotionally there yet to travel alone during a holiday, but again, next year I will if no friends can join. I did make some fun plans the Saturday after Thanksgiving and I will do the same between xmas and new year's eve.
I'm trying to reframe my thinking - I was originally thinking this : OMG, he gets his way all the time and my son doesn't see it, I have to change my plans for him because he's making it a game of who's going to win, he's so angry and mean and putting our son in the middle, this is so not fair.....etc.... Now, I'm reframing to - my son needs some peace and if I let this go (which I can), he will feel better, I can change my plans and have the same type of holiday celebration, I can still have family time and enjoy it the best way I can. Next year, I can plan a trip if I want to.
I'm adjusting my plans, but to be clear, it will not reduce my time with my son. If that was the case, I would have approached it much differently.
Plant Flowers,
It sounds like you are really coming to terms with a very painful situation. I hope you have some self-appreciation for all the hard emotional work you are doing right now to benefit everyone involved. You are fortunate. PwPD's don't have the bandwidth to do that.
I may have missed it reading this thread, but getting outside support, from a T or 12 Step or other support group, can make such a difference. Like sharing here, it is a place to nurture and heal yourself for a time with a focus just on you. You deserve all the individual support you can get. This stuff is really tough to go through.
When I was in a similar situation, I tried to take comfort in something I've heard from counselors, etc. Kids will do backflips to stay in the good graces of the parent who is the least safe, the least reliable, the most likely to abuse or abandon. Meanwhile we get the brunt of the anger and being taken for granted ... at least for a while. That your son would feel so open to telling you what you are doing that bothers him and what he wants from you says to me he trusts you. You are not the one he has to walk on eggshells for.
Keep the faith, Flowers. We are here for you. Hugs, Free :hug:
Yes and hear hear, PF!!!
Once you realize your perception of the situation is creating the suffering.....
Once you stop allowing the mean and punitive ex to "win" anything....bc you refuse to play.....
You win!!!
You create your own holiday traditions with son while modeling how to cope, strategize and be the bigger person, feathers unruffled by the tedious, small, very mean demands and disordered behavior of a PD dad who loves conditionally.
You can't control the PD, but you can be grateful your world has more choice and hope and graciousness.
The PD will always select the lowest common denominator and ds knows this.
Knowing you've found a way to restore joy and newfound homeostasis in your life is good for your son and has the added benefit of depriving the PD, bc you still get what's important to you.
It's not the exact day you see your son.
It's the celebration and discovering new things to enjoy PD free with ds.
Attuning to ds is the goal. Being present. Sharing new rituals, yes!!!
I have every confidence you'll choose positive things to focus on and build for yourself, PF.
Lord knows you've earned it.