Too much too late

[escapingman]

Should I laugh or cry?

Spoke to the kids about going to see their grandparents on my side this summer, they haven't seen each other since before covid. Kids really excited and wanted to do so. STBX get's a sniff of it and says she want to come. I told her no she can't come and that I will go with the kids on my own. Then she comes and says she wants to come again, I tell her no. She says she really want to come and I tell her no that's a bad idea. She then comes back again and tell me she wants to come, I again tell her no. She asks me to reconsider and I said no and I don't want her to come and she ask me again, and again until I say I think about it (absolute only way to get her out of my room) and she happy says thanks (and probably start packing her suitcase in her mind.

It really can't be possible to be so detached from reality. By the time we planned to go the divorce should hopefully be more or less completed.

[square]

"Why wouldn't he want to go on a trip with his ex wife? Well, I'll just badger him until he realizes how much he'll want me there."

[moglow]

Just nip that conversation in the bud and carry on. There's no need to go over and over it. We don't have to respond to every argument with which we're invited, whatever others may think.

[Andeza]

Oh boy, sounds like she's fragmenting reality. I'm going to go out on a limb and take a wild guess...

I think she's got an image in her mind that the divorce will go through, be final... and nothing will be different. My uBPDm attempted it with my dad when they got divorced. She kept trying to insist he could come back and live in the house with her again and it'd all be just fine like old times. What she didn't get was that "old times" were the problem that caused the divorce in the first place. She said a lot of crazy $#!& back then that I've mostly blocked out because PTSD happened, but I do remember her confusion that he left, that he wanted to leave, and much wailing of not understanding why.

So heads up, EM, it's entirely possible your stbx hasn't figured out what step number 1 post divorce actually looks like. It hasn't clicked in her head yet and may not until it actually happens. It ain't pretty, but hang in there.

[JustKeepTrying]

I don't know what your lawyers are suggesting, but consider what moglow said.  You don't have to respond to her questions.  Next time, give her a death look and ask her to leave your office.  If she persists, don't look up or acknowledge her.  If she continues, then ask "Perhaps we should talk about who stays in the house; do we both leave and sell it or when do you plan on leaving?"  A cold wash of reality may be needed.

But EM, this must be wrecking you inside.  I hope you are taking good care of yourself through this.

[guitarman]

Use the broken record technique. Calmly and unemotionally repeat the same phrase over and over. Don't deviate.

She is trying to break you down so you will relent and give in. 

"No" is a complete sentence.

You don't have to JADE which is justify, argue, defend or explain your answer.

It sounds like fear of abandonment but your wife is the cause of it.

You've done so well not to crack and break your firm boundaries.

It gets easier the more you do it.

Well done!!!

[Stillirise]

EM, I agree with others.  In the face of magical thinking, like that you're going to welcome her on a trip to see your family, after first stating your firm "no." I suggest ignoring it. For a long time, I couldn't ignore things, because I felt like I was being rude or using the ST.  Once I owned the fact that not everything deserves my response, things got a lot easier for me.

I can tell you that without a doubt, living in the same house as a Pd, while trying to divorce him, was the hardest thing I've ever done. You are doing a great job with your boundaries, and showing great fortitude and resilience.  Hang in there.  The day will come when you can finally exhale.

[SonofThunder]

EM,

I agree with moglow 100%.  In addition, I find it very effective to remember 1. I only control myself not others. 2.  I will utilize irrefutable facts. 3. since PD's are notorious hypocrites i may be able to use their past choices for themselves, in my benefit. 

For example you wrote: " I told her no she can't come...".  I cant control my uPDw traveling anywhere, especially if she has money and a set of wheels.  But i can control myself, therefore i would say to my uPDw:

"I prefer to travel alone with the kids to my parents, therefore that is my plan". (1= what I'm doing)

"Im desiring to take a father/kids trip so that is the plan" (2= im the only 'father' in the family)

"I have supported you traveling solo with the kids in the past and will continue to support that in the future if thats what you choose for yourself" (3= I am equally available to do what my uPDw does)

Also, you wrote "absolute only way to get her out of my room".   I immediately get myself out of the room, leaving my uPDw standing in my room alone.  Equally effective. 

Lastly, i remember that 'Fear of Abandonment' is the largest underlying PD trait in my uPDw and so if the rest of the family departs, my uPDw is left to face herself alone, which is her abandonment fear.

Definition here:
https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/fear-of-abandonment

SoT

[escapingman]

So many great posts, thank you all, it really helps to get all your support.

To refer to the saying no and just stick to it, and for me to leave the room as SOT says. Yes that is the ideal, but maybe I am weak and can see when her tipping point comes and I have two alternatives, either just delay my next no or face an immediate rage. For my self protection I am doing all I can to avoid further rage attacks. I am tired, I am worn out, I am just running down the clock. At the end of the day, she can think she is going to this trip as much as she wants, when I have done some more planning around it I will book flight tickets for me and my kiddos. If she desire to come, as you said SOT she can but she has to arrange for her own travel and accommodation.

But this will be interesting for what happens this summer, kids are off for close to 2 months, STBX can only take 2 weeks off, I work for myself and can take the entire summer off. 2 weeks to see my parents, then 2 weeks to the beach, couple of shorter overnight stays. She is going to go absolutely mental when she realises this and cannot come even if she was invited. If she was clever, she would take 2 weeks off when she could have them on her own and do whatever they desire to do together, not try to tag along on the first trip and not have any own time with them. But she is the PD not me, I don't care what she plans in her mind, it will be chaos for her anyway.

Regarding looking after myself, not I am not doing to well to be honest. Eating to much and to bad, probably having one or two drinks more than I should after everyone gone to bed. Not exercising as much as I should, but I try, unfortunately I had some injuries and then illnesses stopping me. But I have it all setup in my mind how things will be as soon as I am out of this. I have a training plan and also a diet to follow, but it's impossible to do in this environment. But I am taking regular breaks from her, going away for a few days as often as I can. This at least gives me some time to recover. Although I hat leaving without the kids, without it I couldn't save them.

Again, thank you all for your support. It means so much to me.

[escapingman]

And there it came, the full blown rage attack.

Apparently I am not allowed to leave the house unless I tell her exactly where I am going. She was standing screaming and swearing at me demanding me to tell her, and then screamed and got GC against me for how horrible I am to her (I was standing in complete calmness and replied I am not "telling you"). Earlier today I found out she had been helping herself to money out of the company, apparently she is entitled to it. She is entitled to everything that is hers, and everything that is mine, and some more.  She has gone out now, and I am so disgusted with her, there is no wonder I was a wreck before I came Out of the FOG as I tried to justify and argue my rights when she was in this mood.

I am wondering how am I supposed to me in the same house as her when she screams at me and turn one of the children against me screaming at me to?

Luckily I got the entire episode with the 2 hour build up when she got angrier and angrier on tape.

[JustKeepTrying]

EM,

Please please please see your lawyer asap.  All of our marital accounts were frozen as soon as the paperwork was filed and we could only access living expenses as approved by the court.  At a minimum make sure you remove her name from the accounts to block her access to those funds.

As for the raging, talk to your lawyer.  There must be a way you can move or ask her to move.  This is not sustainable for any of you.  It is unreasonable that you have to stay.

Breathe.  Please breathe and I salute you for maintaining your calm.

[escapingman]

I sent my solicitor an email explaining the situation is untenable and what options I have about either moving out or having STBX removed from the house. As a short term plan I am leaving the house and will stay in a hotel, this was already planned but not sure if I can go back afterwards. I am a wreck, can't do any work now as I am so stressed out.

[guitarman]

You aren't alone.

You are being abused. I know what that is like as I have been there too.

I have witnessed my uBPD/NPD sister raging at our elderly frail parents, her now ex husband, her children, our siblings and their families and myself.

It's frightening to be around someone who does this. My sister uses her loud voice as a weapon deliberately to harm and hurt people.

I ended up calling emergency services to protect our elderly mother from my sister.

My sister has emotional landslides when she totally rages and screams. It's so scary. At those times she is capable of anything. She is like a wild animal.

I have learnt to stay calm and not be near her to protect myself. I wouldn't try to hug her. She would misinterpret my actions as a threat and would lash out at me.

My body would go into a catatonic state because of the fight, flight, freeze, fawn, faint response from all the adrenaline being released.

One time I was just howling and shaking because I was so frightened. I was broken.

Please call for help. There are people that can help you and your children.

You are not alone.

[escapingman]

Thanks guitarman. See was walking round the house for an hour screaming and shouting and hurling abuse at me and the girls (me locked in my office and the girls in school). As soon as she finished I packed my bags and left. Now sitting at the airport with a cold beer thinking I probably never return.

[losingmyself]

Wow.
Just wow.
Remember, your body keeps score. Stress damages you physically as well as emotionally. No one on earth should be treated like that.
God bless you, and help lead you forward.

[square]

I'm sorry. You andthe girls should not have to endure that, ever. P

[escapingman]

I'm sorry. You andthe girls should not have to endure that, ever. P

The girls where in school so happily unaware about being shouted at  But they got alot in the morning and yesterday. GC was told off for how she was so mean to invite a friend as that meant STBX has to clean the entire house to perfection.

I am just worn out. I will probably have to get signed off work to recover from all this.

[square]

I know they missed that particular spate of abuse but they are living it every day nonetheless.

Just in case, the random P was just fumble fingers. I'm sure that's obvious but it resembles the tongue emoticon which I did not remotely intend.

[escapingman]

Just in case, the random P was just fumble fingers. I'm sure that's obvious but it resembles the tongue emoticon which I did not remotely intend.

Didn't even notice it so don't worry. If anything g I am a master of fat fingers snd misspellings.

[escapingman]

So much went wrong today after I left home, but I enjoyed every minute of it. I didn't give STBX a single thought and I just love being able to take difficulties on the chin. So many times on my journey would she have kicked off, I just happily smiled and got on with it. Such a liberation to not worry about how someone else is feeling. OK I am 3 hours late my destination,  but so what?

I am so clear in my mind now about next step. I can't go back home and I need to get the kids out of there.

Wish me luck.