Is it the right choice?

[Ghosties7]

I am in a situation where I am not sure if it is a good idea of not whether to go no contact or not, and need some advice as someone who just turned 18 a few months back.

My mom is the PD with NPD and BPD. She is my only family besides my siblings (2) and has been just absolutely terrible since I was a pre-teen. She has been physically abusive,mentally abusive, verbally abusive, etc. She holds everything over my head and constantly tells me that I am a user, manipulator and narcissist,That I am just like my horrible dad, or my older sister who went NC nearly 6 years ago, and like others and how I am just horrible. She constantly tears me down and has been like this for 6 years , never changing and I finally started to stand up for myself but feel guilty. I am already moved out of the house and have my own car, thankfully.

My mom bought my phone at 16-17 and has been holding that over my head with payments and how I ruined her life and demanded for it back and threatened to take it away for months. After a specific 3am blow up with her spamming me with LONG paragraphs and messages on how she demands it back and she will not have a user having her phone, I finally had enough and went and bought my own phone and gave that phone to my sister to give to her the same day, getting my own phone number with it. barely three hours later my mom was freaking out blowing up my Facebook with a flood of messages, my email, and anything she could, going on about how I have betrayed her by doing that and how I am a horrible person and a user, narcissist and all of that again. How she will die because of this and how I am ruining her life, non-stop.

I can't do this anymore, I truly cant and I was even was the kid that counted down the years until I was out bc of how bad it was but now that it is here I am scared to go NC though because not only am I scared of how she will treat my younger sibling if I do but bc when my older sister went NC form us all my mom lost her mind and was spamming her, stalking her online on every platform, sending weekly messages on FB, mailing her, calling random numbers, doing everything she could for the 5 years and still does sometimes. There is also the guilt of talking open to her and saying I want to and calling her out since she is my parent and it's disrespectful. I want to go no-contact but I fear i'm over reacting about all of this and that it could be the wrong choice.

[Lalitha]

First of all I'm so sorry you're in this situation. I moved out at 18 and never went back, but only went NC in my 40's. The things that I find make it easier are being financially independent, having your own home, other family, friends, pets, work and therapy. It sounds like you are well on your way to achieving some of these things, that's brilliant so well done!
If you can, make sure you are financially independent. You have done so well moving out and getting a car.
Have you got a good support system? Friends or other family that you can call on? Are you in touch with your sister who went NC?
If you do go NC it can be difficult emotionally. It's important to have a support system in place. You may want to look for local support groups, I'm not sure where you are in the world but there may be counselling groups etc available?
Your concern when you have a younger sister at home is understandable. Have you tried VLC (very low contact), is that worth a try first? Low contact and putting her on an 'information diet' could be an option whilst you set yourself up in life.
Something I have learnt is not to make a decision when emotionally triggered. Can you quietly take a step back for a few weeks to give yourself some head space? Avoid making a big announcement about it as it sounds like that could worsen things.
I completely understand why you are considering NC. But I would say just be aware that NC is very difficult too, and it may be worth considering quietly and gradually moving to LC or VLC whilst you continue to make a life away from her and whilst your younger sister is still there. You are on the right track by moving out and gaining more independence. Sending a virtual hug if needed/wanted.

[Ghosties7]

Thankyou! I did try VLC but with my mom everything has to be to the extreme, so I either talk to her and am in contact with her, or I am not. When I was VLC she was constantly going off on me about how I don't care about her and how she hopes a big accident happens with her just so I can regret it, etc. I tried to take a week to just think about how to respond to her and she emailed and messaged me on FB almost every day, multiple times.

I don't have contact with my older sister and anyways she has me blocked on everything because my mom would try and use our accounts to contact her. I dont have any other family besides my little sister that I know or have contact with. I am however, fully financially removed from her since I gave the phone back and even am in the process of getting and setting up my own health insurance since that is the last thing that I am connected to her by and do plan to start therapy as soon as I can and when insurance kicks in.

Making the big announcement definitely would set her off so taking a step back and thing before emotionally exploding with everything I have built up for years is a good idea though and that is a good recommendation. 

I know NC will be very hard and difficult but keeping any kind of contact would not be good either since she is a ticking time bomb who takes her anger out on me over things that I haven't even done, and anytime I do talk to her she always yells and screams over something, nothing is good with her anymore. She herself, has even been threatening for the past few week to go NC with me since I have moved out. She very much needs all of the attention on her constantly, and if I don't give her that, it is the end all.

[moglow]

For me, various times of no contact have helped clear my mind and vision, helped me step back and away from the dramatics. I learned to keep on stepping back, physically and more importantly, emotionally. Now I can better separate my stuff from her stuff no matter how she tried to forcefeed it all to me. But it's indeed a process.

Maybe a big announcement and/or explosion aren't in *your* best interests here, and that's my only concern. Just understand that no matter how you phrase NC or how you go about it in reality, she's likely to buck it and go all volcanic on you because it's not what she chose. [And if she chose it herself, it's just as random.] If you consented to an actual discussion about it, for every question asked and answered six others will appear you never thought of and she'll demand those answers plus "but you never told me whyyyyyy..." no matter how many times you say it. By the same token, if you write it all out she'll just as likely pick that apart for anything she can refute and come back with "but you didnt say xyz." 

Go in with the understanding you can't possibly cover all bases and contingencies for her, but you do need peace for yourself. Your job is to do THAT, not fix it for her.

[Call Me Cordelia]

She demands the phone back, you comply, and you are treated to more of the same crazy sh*tshow. Oh my gosh. You know what it's all about. Keeping control. Your mom is losing control in just about every sense. You are so right to want out. You cannot win in this relationship. You are right to notice the all-or-nothing with her. She wishes harm on herself because you moved out just so you'll be sorry??? She doesn't like your choice to be lower contact with her so she'll just disown you completely? That's just plain crazy. And over-the-top abusive. You are not wrong here.

For someone so young, and been counting down the years, you have an unusually clear understanding of what is going on. You have taken on so much adult responsibility already. Not many 18 year olds are seeking therapy and complete financial independence. So major applause to you!

You don't mention exactly how old your younger sister is, but you really can't rescue her. The best you can do is put yourself in a position to have a good life free of your mother's insanity and abuse. You may consider putting in a call to the relevant child protection authorities, but I can't give particular advice about that. So much varies based on location. A teacher or counselor at her school maybe? Your older sister got out and didn't look back, and you know why. It's really hard, but your younger sister will have her own choice to make here too. It's completely natural and does you credit to want to help her. It's difficult but so important to know your limits there.

It's not the same situation, but I have a sister much younger than myself. I went NC with our parents in my early 30s. She was a legal adult but still very dependent on them. I understand the feeling of responsibility for the younger sibling you are having I think. I was called her "second mother" ever since she was born. I tried to protect her by tipping off her godparents that I am going NC, mom and dad are likely to go nuts, look out for sis. Now my sister showed signs of being disordered like our parents are, and she tried to use the situation to transfer her dependence from our parents to my husband and me! Even demanding we provide her a with a home and health insurance! Now we had children of our own and she has debilitating health problems and serious emotional issues. But she wants out of the abuse too, why can't I help her? Clearly I don't love her like I say I do. Yikes! And when we didn't immediately "adopt" her, she went right back to the status quo and sang a duet with my mother in church that Christmas Eve. She and I are no longer in contact.

The point of telling you this story is not that I think your sister is like mine, but just you have to know your boundaries and stick with them. Moglow is right, you are your #1 priority. Your sister is dependent on your mother for a little while yet. That's not her fault, but it's just the reality of the situation for now. If you cannot maintain contact with your mother, and contact with your sister has the potential to compromise your peace and ability to build the peaceful free life you need right now, that's a hard decision you may need to make, like your other sister did. That doesn't have to be forever. I pray you find a good therapist to help you navigate this ASAP. This is so unfair that anyone should be in your situation, especially at 18. You are already amazing and we are cheering for you!

[Zia]

She has been physically abusive,mentally abusive, verbally abusive, etc. She holds everything over my head and constantly tells me that I am a user, manipulator and narcissist,That I am just like my horrible dad, or my older sister who went NC nearly 6 years ago, and like others and how I am just horrible. She constantly tears me down and has been like this for 6 years , never changing and I finally started to stand up for myself but feel guilty. I am already moved out of the house and have my own car, thankfully.

That is sick and I'm sorry to hear what you went through. The fact that a couple of family members went NC is already a clear sign that being with your mom is unhealthy. I'm glad you have your own place and able to be more independent. That is a good start.

barely three hours later my mom was freaking out blowing up my Facebook with a flood of messages, my email, and anything she could, going on about how I have betrayed her by doing that and how I am a horrible person and a user, narcissist and all of that again. How she will die because of this and how I am ruining her life, non-stop.

I hope you reset and removed all your data from the old phone. It seems your mom is an unstable individual who acts out her anger and frustration with compulsiveness. Emotionally immature and unable to regulate her emotions.

I am scared to go NC though because not only am I scared of how she will treat my younger sibling

I understand your concern, that's one of the pros and cons of NC. Unfortunately, you have to weigh it in, as you mentioned you cannot take it anymore. Self-preservation is a right. You are not someone's emotional punching bag. Whether you go NC or stay, it will not give you assurance that she will be a proper mother to your younger sibling. Chances are she will be as shitty as she was to other family members.

There is also the guilt of talking open to her and saying I want to and calling her out since she is my parent and it's disrespectful. I want to go no-contact but I fear i'm over reacting about all of this and that it could be the wrong choice.

Based on how you described how she treated your older sis who went NC, she was in turmoil unable to handle the rejection and frustration she became obsessed by stalking and harrassing. That's not what a normal healthy person does when they are rejected. You are able to make a good start though. You have the awareness of what is happening, and that you are beginning your independence not relying on your mom.

Don't bother pointing out to her what she is doing wrong or calling her out. She is not going to like it. Because in her own mind there is nothing wrong with her and that she is superior. It will be just a waste of time and energy for you. She will drag you down and deplete you. I'm sure you have experienced that after your many interactions with your mom.

NO you are not overreacting. You are just becoming more aware that this is life-sucking situation, and realizing that this will not get any better. Your body will tell you that. Try and see it for yourself and give yourself some space and distance from her toxicity. Observe how it is, if it makes you feel any better? And if there Are positive changes? Only you can answer these and you would not know unless you take that step.

As for me, after No contact, I realized what I have been missing for 3 decades of my life. I never had my freedom, independence, privacy, individuality and respect being around them. Being with them during those decades felt more like having hands around my neck all the time.

[Zia]

Have you got a good support system? Friends or other family that you can call on? Are you in touch with your sister who went NC?

I agree to this. Having a support system would help. If you need to see a therapist or counsellor, that may help too. You can try reach out to your sister, maybe then that would open up the discussion and both of you could have common ground. Not necessarily to restore relationship if that is not what she or you want, but more of gain understanding as to why she went NC. Maybe by then you will find a support system in her later on. But I would say don't expect much, we don't know her perspective but she may prefer not having to do with anyone with the family. So if you would approach her, proceed with that kind of open possibility.

Can you quietly take a step back for a few weeks to give yourself some head space? Avoid making a big announcement about it as it sounds like that could worsen things.
I completely understand why you are considering NC. But I would say just be aware that NC is very difficult too, and it may be worth considering quietly and gradually moving to LC or VLC whilst you continue to make a life away from her and whilst your younger sister is still there. You are on the right track by moving out and gaining more independence.

I agree to this. And definitely don't make grand announcement, do it in a gradual sense. Probably that will give you the time you need to observe if NC would be the best thing you should do. I hope things get better for you, whether you choose LC, VLC or NC.

[Zia]

When I was VLC she was constantly going off on me about how I don't care about her and how she hopes a big accident happens with her just so I can regret it, etc. I tried to take a week to just think about how to respond to her and she emailed and messaged me on FB almost every day, multiple times.

That is what you would describe as emotional abuse, also psychological abuse. It's like threatening or wishing to self-harm so that she can blame you for it. And if you do feel guilty. Then you would give in to what she wants. Very manipulative. And her constantly trying to poke you with messages is more like a bullying tactic. Think of a bully who wants to get a toy or candy from another kid. That bully will never stop poking the kid until he gets the toy/candy. Very emotionally immature.

I don't have contact with my older sister and anyways she has me blocked on everything because my mom would try and use our accounts to contact her.

That is very unfortunate. And I can understand your older sister. I had my NPs use my sibling and SIL (also other family and friends) to try get a hold of me, in my case my sibling intentionally participated themselves and enabled my NPs and worked for them to do their bidding. It will be tough to reach out to your older sister if you were already blocked. I do not know if there's a way for you to let her know that your mom used your account and that you are considering to do NC same as her. I don't know if that would open up the way. It's up to you to give it a try.

She very much needs all of the attention on her constantly, and if I don't give her that, it is the end all.

Typical Narcissist's litany "Me, Me, Me..." Run away and give yourself distance. You are created to be loved, nurtured and protected as a human being, especially by a parent. It is obvious she is not doing any of that.

[Zia]

You don't mention exactly how old your younger sister is, but you really can't rescue her. The best you can do is put yourself in a position to have a good life free of your mother's insanity and abuse.

Agree to this. Once your sister is of legal age. She will have her own decisions whether to stay with your mom or move out as well. Maybe once you have a better situation in life, you can take your sister with you so that she can also get the distance and safety away from your mom. But again, that is dependent on her if that is what she wants to do. Unfortunately if your mom is an expert guilt-tripper, there's a chance she might stick around. Highly likely once you go NC, your mom would multiple her effort now that the only person where she can dump all her shame is the person who stayed with her.

It's not the same situation, but I have a sister much younger than myself. I went NC with our parents in my early 30s. She was a legal adult but still very dependent on them. I understand the feeling of responsibility for the younger sibling you are having I think.

I have a brother also very dependent on NPs, I would bluntly describe him as a freeloader. I remember when the NPs were living with me, they would criticize me for "not helping" my bro. I had instances of sending money to him from time to time, I just don't want to do it on a regular basis like how they do it. So it seems, whenever they notice their funds are running out they would turn to me and harp me to "help". But their idea of help is more of spoon feeding rather than allow me to send help in my own terms since I also have my own family to feed, bills to pay, and our expenses go up each time they live with us in our house.

So before pandemic, during pandemic and after pandemic he has no job. During the pandemic his wife got pregnant. And then they are planning to be on a student visa to another country when they don't even have savings. And each time NM and I argue about my bro not having a job. She will always have an excuse:
oh it's pandemic
what if he gets sick and die
who will take care of his wife who is pregnant
it's a different situation in his country compared to my country
Excuses. excuses. excuses.

I don't have any deep or meaningful relationship w/ my brother. And after my therapies and counselling, I realized that what I went through in terms of relating to my bro is what they would call favoritism. I came to realization looking back to my history with him:

he always get a free pass like not contributing to household expenses. I contributed with the grocery items at least and cleanup every weekend when not working.
he was allowed to have sleepovers with ex gf at my NPs house and even go to island trips. meanwhile I was not allowed, and was even told to stay away from my bf (now husband) because he is a divorced guy.
He was the free range chicken able to do whatever he pleases. Meanwhile I'm the dumpster for all the restrictions, responsibilities and rules.
The NPs usual excuse is because my brother is a male. So shit I have to blame myself I was born female???

I'm glad it seems you have a normal relationship with your younger sis, not everyone has that, especially very typical of when you are in a dysfunctional toxic family wherein NPs play favorites for their divide and conquer strategy. I can't go back to repair or alter the state or relationship with my sibling. But it is what it is. Unfortunately he is too enmeshed with the NPs and in too much debt state because the student visa and all their expenses in my country are provided for them by the NPs as well as the babysitting role to care for their children while they are busy with study and work.

Not my problem to carry. It's just having an understanding and awareness why I will never have relationship with him and that he will never be seeing my perspective and would highly likely remain with the NPs and would serve them for their benefit.

[My New Life]

Hello Ghosties7,
I am sorry you are in the situation you are in.  I do not think you are exaggerating.  Your situation, unfortunately, sounds very familiar to those, who have lived with a parent with NPD.  Congratulations on understanding so much, at such a young age, as well as securing a place to live, a car, and now a phone.  Building a support system is a challenge, as many do not understand what NC is, let alone why it is necessary.  It sounds like your older sister, could potentially understand, and might be looking for someone to understand her, as well.  Are there any other relatives, who might offer additional support? 

One option might be to go NC for a while and see how it goes.  I know that sounds impossible.  I thought my mother would either die, or kill me, if I ever cut ties.  The weird thing is, I cut ties twice, and after the first time, she was happy to take me back in the fold.  She constantly harassed me about it, but she always harassed me anyway, so whatever.

The first time I went NC, I allowed my mom access to me via email and other family members (flying monkeys).  The fallout was intense.  Lesson learned: if you choose to go NC, make sure it is complete, to protect yourself from a lot of the fallout.  Block her on your phone, email, social media, and when friends or family try to share anything she is saying, tell them you are not taking in any information concerning her right now.  The upside of being in relationship with a person, who will blow-up no matter what you do, is you might as well do what allows you the most peace. 

The second time and last time I went NC with my mom, I committed to complete NC for the rest of her or my life.  The first thing I noticed was the silence.  It was very peaceful. 

As for trying to protect your sister, I stayed in relationship with my mom for many years, to protect my father, who was weak with Parkinson's.  It is a personal decision, and only you will know what is right for you, at this moment in time. 

You wrote: "I can't do this anymore.  I truly can't."  I believe this is your ultimate truth.  Your body is warning you, it is time to go.  I stayed too long, and it cost me physically.  When I finally left, in my 50's, I was in kidney failure.  There is a book called, "The Body Keeps the Score," that talks about how trauma affects us physically.  Basically, life with NPparents means we are constantly in the "fight or flight" mode, and that plays havoc on our systems.  Protecting yourself is not selfish.  It is self-care.  If you elect to go NC, your sister will see you practicing self-care, though she might not recognize it as such. And when she is old enough, you might offer her support, as she navigates her choices.  Ultimately, you cannot protect your sister, anymore than I could protect my father.  One thought that helped me was: You should not set yourself on fire, to keep another person warm. 

I send you support, peace and strength.