Finding myself in between here and there

[Inbetweenthisandthat]

Hello, hope everyone is growing, thriving, and moving towards the person you want to be.

Dr. Ramani helped me learn the basics. Sam Vaknin helped me understand the deeper aspects of narcissism.

I am an addict. Addicted to my wife's charm and attention. I entered the relationship willingly. Ignored a mountain of red flags and stop signs. I am not a victim. My childhood taught me to be a caretaker, an empath. Years and years ago I knew I chose my relationship partner had something to do with my mother but never understood what that relationship was.

The only way to win, is not to play their games. You want revenge? Go no contact and be the best person you can be and learn to guard against picking another narcissist. You win by having a happy life and forgetting about them. It will take a ton of work but well worth the effort.

You have shared children? Love your children unconditionally and let them walk their own path. Make their life happy. Remember, you can only control yourself.

[Poison Ivy]

Thanks for posting this. You seem to be in a good space emotionally.

[clarityneeded]

I love this message - especially the part about not playing the games. Thanks for posting.

[SonofThunder]

I am an addict. Addicted to my wife's charm and attention.

The only way to win, is not to play their games.

You want revenge? Go no contact and be the best person you can be and learn to guard against picking another narcissist.

You win by having a happy life and forgetting about them. It will take a ton of work but well worth the effort.

Hi Inbetween,

Clarity please: If I understand your history here at Out of the FOG, your previous screen name was InTheDragonsDen. Please correct me if I am misunderstanding that previous screen name for you. 

You posted this thread in the Separating and Divorcing board. If I am indeed correct, then I am aware of some of your Out of the FOG backstory about you and your wife.  The above sentences I left quoted don't read like someone who is/has contemplating separation and/or divorce, but someone who has currently chosen to stay married.

Imo, the toolbox tool of NC is a boundary.  Proper boundaries are chosen and enacted for self protection, not revenge; nor to attempt to control the actions and/or reactions of another person. 

Is your wife's "charm and attention", in which you state you are addicted, one of her games to be played?

Thanks for any clarity you may provide so I (and possibly other thread readers) can better understand your current situation.

SoT

[Inbetweenthisandthat]

Hi Son of Thunder,

At least for myself I have found that my wife and I mirror each other in many ways.

Addiction is not a game.

She needs supply / attention. In many ways I am addicted to her attention.

I have never felt being a victim or wanting revenge.

Self aware long before I met my wife that my partners chosen had something to do with my mother, but never grasped the why.

My luck comes in by being away from home for months at a time at work. My time to recharge my batteries. See where I was going and I knew I wanted to remain myself.

The choice is made.

Strongly recommend Sam Vaknin's youtube video's if you have the time. It takes a lot of time and you will find you need to watch a video a couple of times to grasp the concepts but well worth your time and effort.

The first video I watched was alcohol+ covert narcissist. Explained my wife's behavior while drinking. His video's also talks about us and why we end up with them.

[square]

There's something about your updates that is concerning me, and I'm not sure if I can put my finger on it.

It's not that you've decided to stay. It's a valid choice.

It feels to me like you are saying things that may not feel entirely authentic to you.

It's okay to feel conflicted. It's okay to feel scared and it's okay to feel hurt. It's okay to feel like things are going well with her, and it's okay to feel like they are going badly but you're too scared to be alone.

You've put a lot of emphasis on not being a victim, and that's perfectly fine on its face. I am a big champion of agency, of taking responsibility. But underneath it, I worry there's something else there.

Who is concerned that you not be a victim? It's not us. You can both be abused and have choices. And you don't have to be ashamed of your choices. Keep coming back and keep sharing your thoughts and feelings, even if you're aftaid they aren't the "right" ones.

Of course, maybe my post suggests that your feelings aren't right. It's not that. I'm concerned that they aren't your feelings. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry. This imaginary Internet friend just feels like something is off.

[SonofThunder]

Hi Inbetween,

You wrote:

"Addiction is not a game.

She needs supply / attention. In many ways I am addicted to her attention."

IMO, that IS the PD game.  It's why there is a cycle, why there is love-bombing, why there is always a 'caretaker' type and a PD.  I AM the real victim, but the PD steals my own true victimhood, pretends it's hers and then flips it as a weapon against me. It's the 🔺drama triangle and IDD cycle's interplay!

Like Square said:

"It's okay to feel conflicted. It's okay to feel scared and it's okay to feel hurt."

I was all of those with nowhere to turn!  Thanks for the education suggestions.  Imo I became educated enough to know the only way up was out.  I had to take my education, formulate a plan to exit the cult compound and then combine those with a steel-reinforced backbone, thick skin and determination, in order to not just be a well PD-educated ex full-time caretaker, who's just steadily residing in a PD compound trying to find ways to make myself "comfortably numb 🎵".  I personally had to use my education for action!

I could not find peace, happiness, joy and healing while married to a PD. 

SoT

[Inbetweenthisandthat]

Hi Square, I am ok.

Day 1 with her red flag, I chose to ignore that red flag. There were tons of other red flags. I am not a victim. I was / am a willing participant.

Believe you don't look for revenge if you don't see yourself as a victim. They see themselves as a victim, ergo revenge.

Think everyone is reading more into that there is.

[SonofThunder]

Hi Inbetween,

In this thread, you have written:

"I am not a victim. I was / am a willing participant."

And:

"Think everyone is reading more into that there is."

And

"You win by having a happy life and forgetting about them. It will take a ton of work but well worth the effort."

I will accept the above comments for you at this time in your life/marriage and for this thread.  I have also mentally noted your quotes, for future threads in which you may start/participate, so I may be of encouragement to you, my Out of the FOG comrade.

It has assisted me on occasion, to go back through my own post history, to see words Ive written and energized. 

Wishing you continued happiness,

SoT

[square]

Hi Square, I am ok.

Day 1 with her red flag, I chose to ignore that red flag. There were tons of other red flags. I am not a victim. I was / am a willing participant.

Believe you don't look for revenge if you don't see yourself as a victim. They see themselves as a victim, ergo revenge.

Think everyone is reading more into that there is.

Interesting, perhaps the terms have different connotations for me vs for you.

I absolutely agree revenge is something we need to look beyond, that it's a useless or toxic concept. Revenge keeps us tied to evil.

I do not see "victim" as being tied to "revenge."

But I certainly am aware that the word "victim" is a heavily loaded word, and for excellent reason. Namely that some people indeed take the mantle of victimhood for their own selfish purposes.

So I personally don't bother wondering if I'm a "victim" or not, and it's not a word I'm interested in attaching to myself. Among other reasons, I'd rather look ahead.

However, I wonder if, more than just the general loaded term of "victim," you may have a message installed into your mind that short circuits you whenever you consider the possibility that you have been wronged.

If you have been indoctrinated that any feeling of being wronged automatically makes YOU wrong, it will be hard to process and get anywhere.

Before you can move past being wronged, you have to admit you've been wronged.

You can be wronged. You can be wronged through no fault of your own. And even if you could see other things you could/should have done, you could still be wronged.

You don't have to be absolutely perfect to have been wronged.

You didn't ignore red flags because you're a bad person who chose misery.

You did the best you could at the time.

You aren't condemned to suffer because you chose this person.

You can stay with her, but don't do it because you think you made some cold, conscious choice to suffer.

And even if you did, you are allowed to choose differently now, or any time in the future.