Gift giving ...again ! I don't know what to buy you....

[Sheppane]

This topic of gifts seems to come up!
Mom says repeatedly at Christmas and my birthday she doesn't know what gift to give me ie this is my problem to sort out and I am to let her know on a specific time frame. 
I told her Christmas last I would love to receive a gift from her - allow her to choose- surprise me- and that would be very appreciated  by me. I said it in a calm gentle manner. She didn't respond aggressively but in an irritated manner and a " you are so difficult to get a gift for I dont know what you like "  . I reminded her of what I do like ( hence she does know ) .
Its my birthday in march and here we go again " you need to tell me what to get you " . This time I said " thanks mom but why don't you choose something,  that would be lovely '.
Again , no , I'm making it difficult.
I get more angry the more I think about it because really,  she could think of something. She has no difficulty thinking about gifts for my siblings. I dont want the guilt tripping that comes with my birthday . Hell I don't even care much about gifts ! Its the whole drama behind it that triggers me. The point seems to be to hammer home that either I am difficult to get something for ( which isn't true, I would be delighted with a well meaning card even ) , or that I am making it difficult for her by not telling her what to get me. I think this points at some sort of blaming of me but I'm not sure what exactly ? I know underneath it I always feel sad. I find it difficult to pinpoint exactly what this is about . Mom has uNPD traits. Id be grateful to hear if this rings true with anyone? Or is it just me . And what is this about ?

[Fiasco]

It's maddening! When I refuse to give a special list of most wanted gifts to my BPDm the punishment is no gifts at all. She pulls the same nonsense with everyone. Every year she refuses to get her twin (!) a birthday gift until she gets hers from him, so she can see how much she has to spend and what kind of gift to give. She wants to give the best, most favorite, most longed for gift so she can be worshipped and glorified for her gift giving prowess and if she can't have that, she won't gift at all.

[Fiasco]

Come to think of it she does the same thing with everything. We used to visit her and stay over night and when we'd show up with hungry kids after a long day of travel there was never any food in the house because she "doesn't know what we eat". Like literally bare shelves. Does that describe your mom as well?

[Cat of the Canals]

Here's my question: if you ever have asked for a specific gift, do they buy it for you? Even when I was a child, my unBPD mother would make a big fuss about asking for my Christmas or birthday list, and then she'd completely ignore it! I can't remember a single time she got me something I asked for, to the degree that I stopped requesting much of anything. Couldn't get my hopes up that way. 

I got really into sewing in college, and one Christmas I told her I'd love a gift card for the fabric store. Guess what she gave my brother's girlfriend? It was as if she liked my idea but only for someone else.

She definitely has a tendency to "rate" gifts. I gave my nephew a book about space (his favorite topic) last Christmas. He ended up being completely obsessed with the book, and she repeated more than once that I had "definitely won Christmas." Like it's a contest...

So in her case, at least, she must feel pressure to give The Best Gift. And I suppose she can't take credit if she simply buys me what I ask for.

[Cat of the Canals]

Come to think of it she does the same thing with everything. We used to visit her and stay over night and when we'd show up with hungry kids after a long day of travel there was never any food in the house because she "doesn't know what we eat". Like literally bare shelves. Does that describe your mom as well?

My unBPD grandmother did this. She lived out of state, so we'd go stay for a week. One of the first things we always had to do was go grocery shopping when we first got there. And then she'd absolutely PANIC at how much food my parents bought. "What am I going to do with all this food? It's going to go bad! We'll never eat all of this!" We visited at least once a year, but she'd do this EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

[Fiasco]

Oh my gosh Cat, of course not! Whatever someone requests or likes is dumb and they don't actually want that. They want some other random thing!  Thank goodness she's around to show us what we really like. 😂

[Sheppane]

Yes ! Fiasco i think you are right maybe its all about her need to be the best gift giver?  I hadnt thought of it that way!  And the food thing ...I dont know what you eat ....yes !!!!!!! That slipped passed me as I never really saw it as being the same thing as the gifts but I guess it all points at me being to blame for being..I dont know what..wrong? Difficult ?

CatoftheCanals that describes it exactly. I go through a list of things verbally may 3 or 4 and we are half way through she starts laughing " well I'm not giving you that " . Me " its what I'd like " mom " well I am NOT getting you x/yz".  There is definitely some ridicule in there now that I think of it and it usually finishes up with a " threat" of sorts - " if you can't think of anything else I'll just have to get you ( insert strange suggestion !)  - this is said in joke but when I look at it now  its not really funny. I've always gone along with this little piece of theatre.  Maybe now I'll stop !

[Boat Babe]

Ah, the PD gift giving (and receiving) economy.

Gifts are a big deal in almost all human cultures I would venture. They build relationship and are deeply rooted in our social brains and bodies. The beautiful formality of Japanese gift giving and the complex patterns of gift giving in some Pacific islands are two examples that spring to mind. Gifts can be incredibly emotional, poignant and mind-blowing. Even with non PDs, gifting can be fraught with difficulties depending on the people and the circumstances.

All the contributions above show how the PDs in our lives manipulate this very social interaction to their benefit: to obtain supply and  to assert and maintain control.  The only healthy way for us to respond is to deprive them of what they want: supply and control. Cut off all supply with NC/VLC/Grey rock. When you do this, you automatically gain control of YOUR own choices in the situation, therebye dropping the rope and depriving the PD of their control of you. Boom.

Would journalling through this be of help? Perhaps incorporating some of the excellent advice and insights on the thread. We hear you. ❤️

[AlisonWonder]

Get me an itchy sweater, a book about your interests, or a T-shirt made of non-stretch material that no-one could put on.

I understand about not wanting to buy from a list as "it's no surprise" but I don't understand forcing someone to
write a list and then ignoring it, and I don't want to understand 

[Sheppane]

Thank you boatbabe for the reminder about the emotional drive behind gift giving that's really helpful and good to remember I guess that even in non PD relationships this can be challenging.
I am glad now to have seen the pattern around this - and seeing the control in it- which i hadn't really noticed before. You summarise it well Alison wonder " forcing someone to write a list and then ignoring it ". Seen simply like that I can see how disordered it is ! I too understand how it can be helpful to give someone suggestions for gift giving- but I'm also thinking of relationships where I do that and it has a very different feel to it. The other person usually responds with a sense of happiness and " ok great now I've a few ideas and have some thoughts of my own too about what you might like " . This may all sound self centred but really it's not about the gift at all,  it's the process around it that bothers me . If I want to buy a gift for someone I care about I enjoy the process and don't put them under pressure to supply me with the ideas - and on my timeframe too , which is also the other thing which happens here ! The demand for me to respond to someone else's time frame about me telling them what to buy me !!! Crazy !
Thanks for all the great insights

[Andeza]

The whole "I don't know what to get for you!" thing can be spun another way as well. If can be used to imply that it's our fault that they don't know us anymore. Nonsense, of course, but a hard-core guilt trip nonetheless.

[Cat of the Canals]

There is definitely some ridicule in there now that I think of it and it usually finishes up with a " threat" of sorts - " if you can't think of anything else I'll just have to get you ( insert strange suggestion !)  - this is said in joke but when I look at it now  its not really funny. I've always gone along with this little piece of theatre.  Maybe now I'll stop !

Oh yes, my mother LOVES the "joking" threats and insults. Only recently have I started realizing, "Well if it's supposed to be a joke, why isn't it funny?"

[AlisonWonder]

The whole "I don't know what to get for you!" thing can be spun another way as well. If can be used to imply that it's our fault that they don't know us anymore. Nonsense, of course, but a hard-core guilt trip nonetheless.

I don't complain out loud, but that is a thing.  My steppies don't know me anymore and vice versa, because they don't communicate with me out of loyalty to their mother (I was the result, not the cause, of that marriage ending)
It does make buying gifts tricky.

[Hattie]

This is about her not seeing you, not understanding what you like, and you having to work to get your needs me by her. Leaving you feeling unworthy (which you are not). I have exactly the same thing with my mum.

I now refuse to give her any gift ideas and leave it to her. I don't care what she does or doesn't get me, and I'm not getting involved in this demeaning process any more.

[WinterStar]

This is about her not seeing you, not understanding what you like, and you having to work to get your needs me by her. Leaving you feeling unworthy (which you are not). I have exactly the same thing with my mum.

I now refuse to give her any gift ideas and leave it to her. I don't care what she does or doesn't get me, and I'm not getting involved in this demeaning process any more.