Never say a bad word

[Lauren17]

I keep hearing. "Never say a bad word about ex." Instead, we are supposed to "describe behaviors." I struggle with putting this into practice.
Obviously, I understand no name calling, or amateur diagnoses.
Let's say that eating cookies is a negative thing. UNPDxh insists he never even looks at a cookie and has set up alarms at his door to protect the wife and kids from cookies.
But.
I have photos of him eating cookies.
I have receipts of cookie purchases.
I have notes of the day he bought DD cookies for her birthday.
If I say. "he regularly eats cookies and here is proof," isn't that the same thing as saying a bad word about him?

[Rose1]

I fall into the middle ground.  I don't agree with never. If the pd does something that is bad behaviour ie drugs, stealing,  abuse it does no one any favours to say he means well or is having a bad day.
I tried always to say the behavior isn't right.  It's no good if your kids get no validation.  If they see drug taking it should be clear its not acceptable.  If they see abuse it should be clear its not acceptable.

I always tried to separate the behaviour from the person which is hard. But can be done. Drugs are bad and your parent is a jerk is bad news. That would definitely be wrong .
We don't do drugs in our house and this is why is better.

Answering questions like why does he do that is also difficult but it's better to talk about self control, family issues etc than putting the other parent down.

If they behave badly going into what appears to be denial sends the wrong message and causes cognitive dissonance.

In a court situation its different of course. In that case proof is all they really are interested in

[hhaw]

I think part of the problem is how we speak about the cookies and the eating.

If we tell the listener what they must DO and FEEL about the cookies and the person lying about buying and eating them.....the listener can sometimes punish us for talking about the cookies bc we're making demands on them, not bc we're relating facts.

So.....speaking like we're talking to a child, speaking sans any expectations, releasing the outcome serves us well when describing cookies, IME.

And we describe the cookie, not the plate or the table or the box.  Keep it simple and short.....easy to understand and you stay out of rabbit holes which traumatized people go down easily, IME.

[notrightinthehead]

I believe stating facts is not badmouthing another person. He regularly eats cookies is a fact. You have proof.  How another person judges that is not under our control and should be released as Hhaw wrote. He stole money from my purse to buy cookies is another fact. I do not trust him with my money,  states something I have concluded. None of these statements are talking badly about the other person in my mind.  I believe people should be held accountable for their actions. If I do not speak my truth, I am actually conniving with them.

[Poison Ivy]

I avoid using words that express my opinion of my ex's behavior: E.g., "He was a slacker." In appropriate situations, I will use words that describe his behavior: E.g., "He lost a job and then didn't look for other work for five years."

[Stillirise]

Let's say that eating cookies is a negative thing.

If I say. "he regularly eats cookies and here is proof," isn't that the same thing as saying a bad word about him?

Unless you are actually saying, "Eating cookies is a negative thing. He is a terrible person, because he regularly eats cookies..."  then you are just naming the behavior.

I struggled with this too, at first.  You aren't name calling. You aren't labeling. You aren't judging. You are simply describing a behavior you witnessed or experienced.

After awhile, I found there were certain times, with certain people, who needed to hear those facts.  They were able to better understand and empathize with my situation. Otherwise, I tend to keep quiet. Except here. 

[TiredOfNarcs]

To be honest, it's best to think about what is best for you. Sure, it might be cathartic to go around calling your ex every name in the book, but you have to be mindful of what may happen if your words get back around to them. They could retaliate, use your words to justify smearing you, use your words as valuable information about your mindset in order to better manipulate you...the list goes on. If you are in a space where you know with absolute 100% certainty that you are safe to say whatever you like about them, I'd say do whatever helps you heal. For some people, healing will never be possible as long as you keep talking about how awful of a person your ex is. For others, finally letting the words out after bottling them up for so long and having your perception of them validated after feeling crazy for so long is a necessary step to healing. Everyone's situation is different, and if trash-talking your toxic ex in a 100% safe space is something that genuinely helps you heal, I don't think it's something you should feel wrong for doing. But whatever you do, don't ever put yourself in harm's way for the sake of getting one over on your ex. The focus should be on building yourself back up, not taking them down a peg. But if the latter ends up happening as a byproduct, that's not your problem.

[SonofThunder]

I believe stating facts is not badmouthing another person. He regularly eats cookies is a fact. You have proof.  How another person judges that is not under our control and should be released as Hhaw wrote. He stole money from my purse to buy cookies is another fact. I do not trust him with my money,  states something I have concluded. None of these statements are talking badly about the other person in my mind.  I believe people should be held accountable for their actions. If I do not speak my truth, I am actually conniving with them.

+1 

Truth is truth.  Facts are facts.  Our Experiences are facts.

SoT

[Jsinjin]

I work hard to never say mean things about my uOCPDw or to make excuses for her.   When I follow both of those I find that I can be true to myself.

[SonofThunder]

I work hard to never say mean things about my uOCPDw or to make excuses for her.   When I follow both of those I find that I can be true to myself.

That is a good point Jsinjin, as facts, truth and real-life experiences are not 'mean' or 'excuses'.  I work very hard to no-JADE and its a carefully woven thought process to stand firm on truth, facts and my own experiences and not JADE and also remain in MC mode.  Mentally exhausting but good training. 

SoT

[Lauren17]

I haven't been on in a while. Thank you to everyone who responded.
This question was for discussions with lawyers and other professionals.
I see now, that I'm still struggling with trained response that the problem was never that he lied/manipulated/whatever, but that I pointed out that he did.

[SonofThunder]

I stand by my previous statement that "Truth is truth.  Facts are facts. Our experiences are facts.", but I also believe that our motive and our intent, has much to do with what truth, facts and experiences we share. 

I also +1 with Poison Ivy's input.

SoT

[Lauren17]

Thank you, SoT.
I did my best to stick to the facts. And, in attempt to follow Poison Ivy's advice, I didn't say "He's a big cookie eater". I said. "I've seen him eat cookies often. Here are the receipts to show his cookie purchases"
Can I just say that pulling all of that together, in writing, was terrifying!!
I lost several nights of sleep. And my truth war is only beginning.