Ready to Stand Up

[UnNegated]

My journey with my NPD mother has been a long one.  I am 52.  For the better part of the last decade, I have been more clear eyes about the relationship than previously in my life, but I have also vacillated in my response and strategy in dealing with her.  I am in a place where I have a professional job and can take care of myself, so certain boundaries are easier than they once were.  I do not accept any Hoovering strategies to lure me into any kind of financial enmeshment.  This always leads to leveraging, manipulation, and control under the guise of "helping" me.  The only gifts I accept are gifts with NSA, but we all know those strings can still be invisible even when they are implausible and unenforceable in any rational universe.  I have also decided to go limited contact - until now - with my operating premise being I try to have the healthiest relationship I can have at any point in time given how they are behaving.  That has bought me five years of relative "peace," but a sense that I know the throw down cage match is coming, and I am postponing the inevitable.  There is also a sense of guilt that I don't just take a stand, draw my lines in the sand, and let the chips fall where they may.

There are three factors that cloud clarity for me.  The first is my eight year old son.  The second is her health.  The third is her estate.  They are all intertwined in a toxic stew as you can only imagine if she is a true narcissist, which she is.  I am unambiguous about that.  I am an only child.  She drove my father away when I was six months old.  She made sure neither he nor his family could hold any influence over me when that was her choice to make.  When it no longer was, I chose differently.  I did not become a father until I was 44, and the birth of my son brought the challenges in the relationship to a whole new level.  I promised his mother before he was born that I would protect my son from her, and he is reaching an age where those promises need to be kept. My mom has reached an age where she is having real health problems.  She clearly has fewer than five years left to live.  When she was hospitalized two years ago, she told me where her trust was because she was afraid she was going to die.  I had two choices.  I could ignore that information and not read it and spend the rest of her life wondering how she was going to punish me after she died, or I could read it, go through the phases from anger to acceptance, and at least be able to prepare mentally before she finally passes.  I chose the latter.  The short summary is she is passing most of her considerable wealth through to my son with lots of strings attached, lots of age requirements, and not allowing me to administer it in any way.  What is being passed through to me is perhaps less than 20%.  I was angry, and have made my peace with this.  There is a voice inside my head that says after everything I've been through, the least I could hope for is to inherit her estate, break the generational cycle, and take care of my son and step-kids.  There is another voice inside my head that says I should just walk away and not engage with any of it when she passes because it is an intentional time bomb meant to drive a wedge between my son and I.  Based on the choices I seem to be making, I am leaning toward the latter.  Financial manipulation is one of her main tools of control and coercion, and I am ashamed to the degree I have allowed it to control my life.

She is now visiting from another state for my son's 8th birthday.  Before she arrived, my son asked me (unprompted) to "not let grandma make me cry."  That was it for me.  I had already made a promise to his mom.  Now he was asking me for help and protection.  It is one thing to have boundaries as an independent adult to protect myself from her, but my son takes it to a different level.  I looked him in the eye and said I would hold the line for him - in not so many words. I brought his mom into the loop, and came up with a plan where he would go back to her immediately if things crossed the line.

On her first night here, DM noticed that some toys she had given my son for his play room, that were no longer age appropriate, were not longer there.  He has never even acted like he missed them.  I had allowed his mom to take them to her workplace where they would be used more meaningfully.  She started losing her mind and blaming his mom in front of him, and started demanding that they be returned so she could take them home with her (for what purpose?).  I had to keep my cool and wait until my son went to bed.  I knew the histrionic rage was coming.  And it did.  She started laying into me about how angry she was.  I cut her off.  I looked her straight in the eye and told her never to disrespect or speak badly of my son's mother in front of him, that her issue was with me not her, and that gifts are not gifts if they are used as tools of manipulation after they are given.  I then addressed lifelong pattern of gifts and money being used as tools of manipulation, and of holidays being enforced instead of celebrated.  I was on a roll, so I decided to just unload the kitchen sink while I was feeling my oats.  It was cathartic.  And, as you might imagine, it landed on deaf ears and only fed an already healthy sense of victimization and me being the archetypal ungrateful son.  Since this conversation, which degenerated into a diatribe I have heard on a loop most of my life, the silent treatment has been given - other than when we are interacting with my son.

There are four days left in the visit.  She always insists on staying over a week.  I sense the blow up coming, but in this case I thin I want it. I think I'm tired of acting like a victim.  I think I'm ready to set my boundaries and hold to them.  I think I am ready to step beyond fear.  For my sake.  For my son's sake.  For the sake of everyone who has to walk on eggshells around it all.  It is also clear that what I have been doing is not sustainable as my son gets older, sees and feels what's going on, and watches my reactions to it. No inheritance is worth kowtowing and dancing on the head of a pin.  I don't know what the next chapter will look like, but it is going to be different.

This forum is important.  It helped me five years ago (forgot my username and password) and I knew I could come here today.  Thank you for reading.

[Leonor]

Hello UnNegated,

First, I would like to acknowledge your awareness around your mother's toxicity, but even more your strength and willingness to protect your son - even to the point of defending his mother to yours. So many co-parents struggle with simple civility towards one another; to inform your mother that your son's mother is off limits is really a testament to your own good-dadness.

This may sound harsh, but in your little boy's best interest, one of them has to go. It does your son no good to experience fear and upset around your mother; to hear his grandmother attack his toys, his house, his dad, or -especially! - his mom; or to feel the tension and upset between the two of you. He's already proven himself to be a sensitive little guy who is depending on you for safety, and arguing and conflict and silent treatments do not feel safe to children.

Your mother has already injured your son by insulting his mother. That's not a wait-until-bedtime discussion. That is a pump-your-brakes-right-the-blazes-now discussion. It doesn't have to be a blow up; it can just be, "Mother, we do not insult one another in this family. If you cannot be kind towards (son's mother), I'll have to ask you to leave." Period!

If you want a knock down drag out with your mom, well, you're an adult and from what I can read here, no one can blame you! But not while your son is with you. Call his mother and send him home, where your mom cannot act up or out towards him and he doesn't have to hear a lifelong litany of your complaints towards her.

Even better, send her packing. "Sorry, Mom, I'm cutting this visit short. I'll call you a cab to the airport, or bus stop, or whatever." That is standing up and protecting the peace in your home and the safety and happiness of your children. I'm sure your partner will appreciate it, and your son's mother will, too - she will know that her boy is always safe with you (and she can count on the free time she may have scheduled during your son's visit.)

Your mom might get her nose out of joint, but I guarantee the other women in your life will be absolutely delighted, and you'll be a hero to your son.

And you can always have that knock down drag out another time.

[UnNegated]

There is still a silent treatment / Cold War chill between her and I.  She is unusually restrained around my son, although she still communicates her displeasure with what he enjoys and wants to do.  I have not seen a need to send him home to his mom yet.  He actually acts as an insulator, and I am trying to get as close to that flight home as possible.  I know she cannot hear my words.  I am planning to address her behavior in a way that cannot be ignored or simply blamed on me.  Or, if it is, knowing that there is really only one clear path for me to choose.  It sucks.  I know its not going to not suck.  Its a matter of owning and claiming my power and agency, and realizing my son matters enough to do it.

And yes, I realize I matter enough as well.

[moglow]

Imma step in as Petty Betty for a minute here - I'd be hard pressed to not hunt down every item she mentioned, box them up and ship them right back to her with a note "I was able to locate a, b and c that you mentioned were missing on your visit to DS, and wanted to be sure and return them to you. DS had outgrown Items x, y and z so they were donated to local children's center in your name. They said to let you know the children really appreciate them!" Maybe even have DS sign the note. or is that too much?

Here's the thing for me, she invites herself for over a week to your house then throws down IN that house about the way you choose to raise your child and about any/everyone around him. She likely knows that if she took direct potshots at you, she'd be asked to leave so she chooses this passive aggressive bs way of "communication." I could totally see mine doing much of the same if she could be bothered to show any interest in any of her grandchildren. Another story, that.

An old friend of mine used to say, start out how you can hold out. Reset the rules going forward, in other words. She wants a week and invites her unpleasantry into your home? How about: No. Tell her you have x [four or five max] days available next summer/holiday time she suggests, and we can meet you at [convenient fun vacation spot somewhere in between] so everyone can enjoy our time together? We're taking all the kids and you're welcome to join us, I just need to know so we can make sure we have a room for you. She doesn't want to do that? Okay, some other time then. And then you politely shoot down every suggestion due to already scheduled school, sports, practice, other activities. I'm sure you understand, at DS age and all. He has a lot going on.

Cornering you in your home seems like a hostage and potentially openly hostile situation to me, that's why I say no. Most people -even the most disordered- will try to play nice in public or in unfamiliar surroundings. Getting her off your turf means YOU can also leave if need be. She throws down hard enough and KIDS! Pack it up, gma is showing herself and time for that we don't have today!! Brace yourself for "I'll just leave my money elsewhere then!" Okay. It's her money and she gets to choose where it goes. I hate tha she'd do that to her grandson, but again, her choice.

The more I think on it, the more it seems a hostage situation. Two more days. You can do this.

[Cat of the Canals]

I am planning to address her behavior in a way that cannot be ignored or simply blamed on me. 

All of the NPD/BPD people I know are masters at the two things you mentioned: ignoring and blaming. It doesn't matter how blunt or exact or unequivocating your words are. They can and will find a way to not only make you wrong, but they will often turn things around so that they are the victim (DARVO). So if you're going to stand up, do it for you. That way, her (probably poor) reaction/response can exist independently of the fact that you have spoken your truth.

Some advice for the future, IF the relationship survives: Don't let her stay with you again. Ever. Take mo's advice or offer to find her hotel. If that's "out of the question" in her mind, oh well. Guess you won't be seeing her, then.

Wishing you strength for the remainder of the visit.

[treesgrowslowly]

I know she cannot hear my words.  I am planning to address her behavior in a way that cannot be ignored or simply blamed on me.  Or, if it is, knowing that there is really only one clear path for me to choose.  It sucks.

Here's the thing. She's already ignoring you and blaming you. What you really want is for her to hear you - but you also know she can't hear you.

There is some really golden advice from Dr. Lindsay Gibson on how to approach a conversation with a person like your mother. If you search Youtube for her by name, and "how to deal with difficult people", you'll find some good interviews with her where she explains how to plan for these conversations.

Dr. Gibson talks about planning ahead, which is what you are doing (which is good). You have to plan ahead, knowing they are likely to ignore you, and blame you for their emotions. You made them upset, you make them confused, you make them angry, you make them stressed out. On and on the blaming goes with them.

Our community is helpful because (in my opinion) we help each other through the process of realizing how it feels to be blamed and ignored by a parent. I know how it feels to be blamed by my parent. Many of us do, and this community is such a good source of support. I am glad you are here, although of course wish it was not due to this issue you face.

Your mother sounds manipulative. The 'good behaviour act' is a familiar one to me as well during visits where she is going to keep trying to get what she wants, and manipulating people into thinking she's 'better' now and ready to listen. Ha! Is she? Or is she simply acting like this to manipulate the emotions of the people around her?

Trust yourself and trust your desire to protect your child from an emotionally manipulative grandparent.

It only gets harder as the grandbabies age.

Better to set up limits on what you will and will not do for her during her next visit (i.e. hosting her should probably not be something you offer. Mo is so right on this. If she wants to visit again she can get a hotel room).

Trees

[Leonor]

"He actually acts as an insulator."

Not a child's job.

[UnNegated]

I want to thank everyone for their responses and feedback. Sometimes we need the mirror held up so we can see ourselves - even if it is "tough love."  What separates us from our PD parents is that we want to learn, grow, and become healthier.

First off, it is completely correct to say my son's job is not to be an insulator.  To be clear, after I was assertive with my DM on the first day of her visit, she has been very passive toward him.  If I saw anything that warranted sending him back to his mom and just dealing with her on my own, I would have (and still will).  If something like that were to happen, it would also instigate the next assertive conversation with her.

All of the suggestions for boundaries around her visits are valid, but there are things I know as fact.  I need to be ready to face these facts.

1.  She will not stay in a hotel.  She expects to stay with me - to the point of having 3 styroltie containers filled with her things that she can access when she is here.  If I don't allow her to stay here, she will not come.  I have to be ready to accept and deal with the ramifications of that.

2.  If it gets to that level, a complete breakdown of the relationship is likely.  I have tried to keep it at low-chill (correct use?) for the better part of five years.  There are all kinds of reasons for that.  I recognize that where my son is at is being able to express his needs and where I am at in being able to express my own has changed.  Again (theme), I have to be able and willing to accept the ramifications of that.

3.  Her health is deteriorating.  Her ability to function independently is deteriorating.  She has deliberately remained in the place where I grew up while I have lived 1000 miles away for 25 years.  This is intentional and deliberate, but at this stage of her life is also self-sabotaging and deliberate.  The guilt will be real, even though cognitively I know she is responsible for her own choices and behavior.  Repeat the last sentence of 1 and 2.

When I told my son's mom about all of this, she wanted to get the things that were missing and return them.  My response was to say, "Let's not gaslight ourselves."  We make a reasonable choice for a reasonable purpose.  There is no need to revisit that choice.

It's a lot.  I'm doing the best I can, as we all are, and I am grateful for the ability to vent here and receive support - even if it is tough love.  I am grateful for all who have responded.

[Leonor]

To be clear: if the choice comes down to ending the visit with your mother or ending the visit with your son, and you choose to end the visit with your son by sending him back to his mother so that you can focus your energy on your relationship with your mother, you are choosing your mother over your son.

Enmeshment is tricky.

Have you ever read anything by Ken Adams? You can find him on YouTube.

[Hilltop]

UnNegated it's so hard when we are so use to this behaviour that we don't see how bad it is. You have nothing to feel guilty about.  You gave toys away that were no longer age appropriate, that is a normal thing to do.  You do not need to return them or ask if it's ok to donate them.

Essentially your mother is giving you the silent treatment in your own house, your home.  In your sanctuary, a place that should feel safe.  Would she accept that behaviour from you in her house.  Probably not.  Honestly a hotel may be a better option, if she chooses not to do that, it's her choice.  However you may not be ready for that.  If she needs things for herself at your house that is just control and manipulation.

I feel the crux here is the estate.  Sort that out and you may be able to enforce boundaries more easily.  Is it possible to mix things up.  You visit her, stay in a hotel.  It may be better if your son isn't around that.  No doubt he picks up on the tension even if nothing is said.  Perhaps now she is aging you could use that as an excuse to mix things up.

Have you considered reading or watching you tube vids on enmeshment.  It may give you a clearer picture of things.  As someone who has tried to talk to my parents as you have, I got nothing, just blame, ignoring.  It's hard to let go of the belief that something will change or the conflict will lessen.

I spent far too long putting up with poor treatment due to obligation, a belief that things would eventually ease. It's not worth the stress. I really hope the visit is done by now and you have space to gather your thoughts. 

[UnNegated]

POST-MORTEM

She flew home yesterday.  When I dropped her off, I couldn't even bring myself to give her a hug.  She had been on her best behavior for days, but it didn't matter.  I know the game.

At the end, she was being more kind.  But I know the cycle.  Go through rage, project it out on me, retreat within both to protect herself and punish me, slowly behave in a kinder way then act like nothing happened to appear like an unspoken apology and Hoover me back in, and then act hurt when I don't respond positively.

I am now at the stage where I have to figure out my path forward.  My feelings are all over the place, so I feel like I need to sit with it for a few days.  I am going on a therapy road trip out into nature, so I will have plenty of time.  I also don't know what will be coming my direction from her now that she is back in her safe space that she controls.  But I am on my timetable.  I know that my next steps need to be clear and unambiguous, and I need to take them for me and not out of fear for what may come as a result.

This needs to be a new chapter.

[Leonor]

Dear UnNegated,

Congratulations on stepping with confidence into this new chapter of your relationship with your mom!

In so many ways, our relationship with our mothers is our relationship with ourselves, with our life. A man's relationship with his mother sets the pattern for his relationship with his partner, with himself as an adult versus a child, as a father versus a son, and what it means to be a man in relationship to women. As this new chapter unfolds, as frightening and painful as it may feel in relationship to your mother, the freedom and clarity and openness will only benefit your relationship with your partner and children, as well as with yourself. I am excited to read how you experience this future, if you choose to share it with us here!

At the same time, it is such complex and intricate work to disentangle your self from your mother's projection of you. Trauma is not a single thunderclap, it's a slow, insidious, unrelenting wave of pressure on your psyche from the very moment your psyche began to emerge. In the womb.

So patience is the process... Patience with yourself. Patience with the feelings. Patience with the fear. Patience with the awarenesses, and the lack of awarenesses after decades of being gaslighted and manipulated and blinded. And patience with the learning ... Do research, Ken Adams, Patrick Teahan, Jerry Wise, and other men who are so knowledgeable on how disordered mothers disable their sons, and how these sons can grow into their full manhood and individuate without disrespecting their mothers.

I wish you many long peaceful walks.

[Hilltop]

Hey UnNegated I am so glad that visit is over for you. I am also a fan of getting out in nature to recharge.  Hikes, the beach, lying in the sun, swimming, the wildlife, it just clears away the junk. It gives back that energy which was depleted. 

It's great that you recognise this is on your timetable, there is no rush. Do what feels right for you.  Take the time you need to process.  It can be confusing and disorientating being around them.  For me listening to books, you tube video's helped give me more information on what I was dealing with as well as boundaries etc. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, there may be some way to change things or lessen the contact that works well for you.

A new chapter sounds wonderful even if getting there means wading through the mud.

One thing I noticed is that your mother seems to be setting up a divide and conquer routine with your son.  This is a favourite technique with the PD's in my family.  I say this because of the will, her being nice to your son but giving you the silent treatment ie your son is the GC, you are the scapegoat, getting upset over his toys going missing - making you the parents as villains and your son the victim and she the saviour ie give him back his toys.  Withholding affection to you but giving it to your son.  Moving forward it may be wise to not let her be around your son alone, PD's can be successful in driving wedges between relationships. They can be very devious with their communication.  You know her cycle though which is great so you will be able to judge if that is something to think about or not.

I hope you enjoy your nature walks.