Thirteen years ago my husband and I purchased a small cabin with his brother and his family; total of 7 people. It's really wonderful and we love it. It didn't start out so well, but I worked very hard to fix issues and now it's exactly what I would want in my nearing retirement.
My BIL didn't have the funds to purchase it and wasn't honest with us. Somehow he came up with a check, 28,000.00 for his half though and a year later the bank that floated him his loan wanted him to produce some kind of equity and sign a mortgage. Since my husband and I paid for our half the BIL used our half as his equity without telling us. He kind of tricked us into signing his mortgage. We are not on his loan though.
I was furious, when I figured it out, and went to an attorney who suggested we create a document around this to protect ourselves. We did this and we all agreed on some things, like, if they can't make a payment they will let us know. I felt better about it, but it definitely created some bad feelings.
Over the 13 years we have improved it a lot and gotten really attached, so has BIL's family. I know BIL's family is still struggling financially and really never were able to be cabin owners, but wanted it so bad and used my husband and I as leverage.
We don't stay there together, we use it like a time-share, but BIL and his wife like to think of it as their own and use the phrase "family cabin" as a way to not have rules or to make it a "free-for-all".
Over the 4th of July they had 9 people stay there (only 475 sq. ft.) and it is their yearly big bash! Lots of drinking, bonfires, bbq's etc. We're not against it, but I don't love it since the cabin is 100 years old and they don't do any maintenance throughout the year. BIL helps my husband with major fixes, like a new roof. They do keep it clean though.
I had some bed-sheets disappear over the 4th of July. One set was brand new and one set was on our bed. The whole set didn't disappear, just the flat sheets. I found one package in their drawer, they were re-using it to store hats and gloves.
Here's the main problem: SIL has refused to talk or meet about anything. In 13 years we have never had 1 conversation about the cabin or sharing. Now she has been sending me nasty texts about the sheets, saying she is sick of being accused of things. All we did was ask (through BIL) if they accidentally got mixed in with their laundry. BIL and wife have a habit of blowing things up and flipping it , getting really defensive and acting like victims.
I have invested 13 years of nurturing this cabin and want to keep it, without them if they can't communicate.
I am really, really upset, probably a little overly-upset and frustrated because we can't seem to talk to them. I don't trust them either. The best answer might be to get out of it, but I don't want to so I need coping skills. What I really want is an explanation about her feeling accused. Like I said I haven't even spoken to her ever about the cabin so I wonder why she feels this way. She won't talk on the phone or write me back.
I think my original post sounds very one-sided and kind of insensitive. We were very nice to them, all along! We have assumed extra expenses on many things we share: grill, coffee maker, rugs, flowers for the deck, toaster, paddle-boards, pillows, curtains, etc. They have been very stand-offish to us, and it hurt my husband mostly because it's his brother and he wanted to send time with him. I believe they just used us for financial leverage! I don't know what's up with them now, maybe financial troubles and they are trying to scheme a way (again) to stay half-owners. I don not trust them, therefore I have adopted an insensitive attitude toward them.
I've actually done therapy over this and I may need to go back. It upsets me so much how they treat us, especially me.
Hi Danie. It is clear from your posts how much of your heart and soul you have put in the cabin and the thought of losing it, or having to give it up, is upsetting.
It sounds shady how the joint ownership happened to begin with and when one part of the 50/50 is not willing/able to share equally in ongoing expenses and maintenance the frustrations and resentments can build.
How you can avoid offending someone when they are offended by you asking if they may have misplaced the sheets for the bed, I honestly don't know. How can you work through issues if someone refuses to communicate? You can't. And that is hard, but something that is beyond your control.
When things have been murky and unaddressed from the get go in a joint venture it usually benefits those who would take advantage I have found.
Huge lack of boundaries and clear communication all along and it does seem like your sil is on the defensive - which is hers to figure out. Not yours. Sometimes we have let stuff go for so long the thought of addressing them brings a great deal of angst because we are pretty sure it would mean a huge shift in any semblance of a relationship with each other.
From where I sit and what you have shared, it seems like the 'relationship' with your bil and sil is predicated on you and your DH allowing yourselves to be taken advantage of and maybe... just maybe.. you are pretty mad about that? Cuz I sure would be about 13 years in.
I love the question that anger and frustration asks us (if that is what you are feeling) what needs to be addressed and what needs to be protected. And as my own T says... anger is telling us that boundaries have been violated and needs not met.
Just some thoughts...
I am beyond mad, if that's possible. I really don't care about BIL or SIL anymore, but my husband loves his brother.
I think it's so interesting that 1.They wouldn't have been able to purchase this without our half for their equity. 2. They can't afford it on their own, yet they show no appreciation or understanding of that. So if we decide to sell our half they will be in a bad situation and probably have to sell, as well, which I know they don't want to.
I'm not being judgemental when I say this, but they have 3 teenagers, a mortgage on their primary home and they mortgaged the cabin for 30 years at 180.00 a month.
They pay their own healthcare because she works part time and he is self-employed and their income is around 70,000. Really?
BIL just took our another loan to build a deck at their house for $30,000.00.
Since we signed their mortgage :-[ if he misses one payment on the cabin the bank could take it back! The whole thing. It's such a precarious situation for us to be in.
DH and I are totally on the same page about what we want to do ---keep it. It would be a dream come true for me. I am trying so hard to take care of myself and my upsetness and not do anything abusive to them, like a blaming text message.
Thanks Bloomie!!
I know NOTHING about how any of this works.
But what if - if they miss a payment, you tell them they have to sell their half to you, immediately. The only alternative would be foreclosure. Covering the loan wouldn't be an option. They miss a payment, they lose the cabin no matter what. Their only choice would be to get their equity back or lose it all and get the foreclosure on their credit report.
Of course the foreclosure would go on yours as well.
I dunno, it's just an idea.
And if the cabin ever stopped being a joint property... OBVIOUSLY change the locks etc. And no letting them use it. Ever.
Hi Square
Thanks for bringing up some good points. Maybe anyone that reads this can learn, as well.
BIL said he would "let us know" if he missed a payment so we could either buy him out or sell it together to avoid anyone getting a foreclosure ding on their credit.
I think I believe him, but it's been 13 years and their seems to be a different mindset and some hostility brewing so we should remind them.
We can't put these stipulations on them, they won't sit down together. We can call his bank though and ask them to let us know if he's missing payments.
Either way, we are giving him 1 week to set up a meeting and discuss the problems before we move on to the next phase, which is selling or setting up an LLC.
My H has concluded BIL is in a bad marriage and she is behind the scenes and controlling things. I've know BIL for 30 years and he was a nice guy (like my H) before he got married.
I can handle the cabin split, either way, for me it's getting out of the dysfunction that's most important.
Ah, didn't realize you were already prepared for the buyout scenario.
I do know it's the other things that are the main issue. Was just thinking you could have this up your sleeve if they actually blow the payment, then everything is 95% solved (you'd just have to deal with, maybe, a smear campaign, pressure to let them use the place, nasty comments, etc - which you can hold your head high and stay the course for and enjoy your cabin in peeeeeeeace).
Yup, would buy them out. Today I decided to keep their nasty texts to me. They might come in handy if I need a lawyer. :) :) :)
Quote from: Danie on October 19, 2021, 09:20:18 AM
BIL and wife have a habit of blowing things up and flipping it , getting really defensive and acting like victims.
I am really, really upset, probably a little overly-upset and frustrated because we can't seem to talk to them. I don't trust them either. The best answer might be to get out of it, but I don't want to so I need coping skills. What I really want is an explanation about her feeling accused. Like I said I haven't even spoken to her ever about the cabin so I wonder why she feels this way. She won't talk on the phone or write me back.
I'd bet they did take the sheets...lol. My sister, bil, and father do this. Blow up and rage when trying to address issues. They then cry foul and play the victim/martyr. It is maddening and also a deflection tactic designed to intimidate and make you give up. There are really only two choices. Stand your ground (without getting drawn into an argument), and restate the question. The other option is to never broach the subject again. I wouldn't keep anything at the cabin I didn't want to get misplaced or stolen. Let them bring their own supplies for their stay.
P.S. I hope you guys get to keep the cabin solely.
Tell me if I'm getting this correct. You put 50% down in cash on this cabin, then co-signed the mortgage for the balance which is in BIL's name. So you did know what you were signing. But it was either sign or lose the cabin? I can definitely see how codependent people could get steamrolled into agreeing to something like that. Been in those sort of situations myself where I got blatantly taken advantage of. I don't understand though how your names are not on the loan if you could be liable for BIL defaulting. The bank should be in communication with you if at anytime your personal credit is at risk, not simply relying on BIL. That may not ultimately matter much, I just found it confusing. As are many things when pwpd are involved.
With the mortgage period coming about halfway now, it seems like the larger investment from your point of view is the personal one. How you've made this place your own, improved it, etc.
That would be a real loss. But what if you considered it a sunk cost? Live and learn and get a different cabin? It sounds as if you could afford to on your own at this point. I don't know the area or if there are similar properties you could have instead, but if as you say the most important thing to you is to get out of the dysfunction... it may be best to start over. If you bought them out the potential for smear campaigning and guilt tripping and oh-poor-us could be everlasting, especially if you had strong boundaries after having basically none and next to no communication about what is and is ok there for 13 years. It would be a constant challenge to "change the steps to the dance," as my old T would say.
Cordelia, so glad you asked. I didn't know we were signing his mortgage! He lives 70 miles away (his home residence) Eight months after we closed on the cabin (he wrote a check for 28,000.00) he called us and said we needed to drive to his hometown and sign some papers. I asked what they were and he wouldn't say so I said no we weren't coming. Then, he talked to my husband and said it was because we owned the cabin together. So we drove there and went to his place of work. He was behind his desk and put the mortgage on his desk and covered up the top half with a blank piece of paper and shoved it in front of me and said "sign here". I wouldn't and asked what it was. He said it's because we own the cabin together so I signed it and asked for a copy --which he gave me.
He rushed us away and on the way home I read the copy and realized it was his mortgage!!! I immediately called him and questioned him and he got angry and hung up on me. He did say we weren't on the promissory note he signed to the bank so we weren't under any financial obligation. I got us our own lawyer and we created our own contract and had BIL and SIL sign it. We created some guidelines about the mortgage and selling. I also talked to BILs banker and he claimed this was indeed the situation and if BIL misses 1 payment we would be informed. My husband told BIL that if he was nasty to me we were out, plus he talked to the banker about the situation. The banker offered up a lot of financial info about BIL and that just infuriated him.
That was 12 years ago. I didn't go for 5 years (husband did) and fences seemed to be mended so I started to go again and loved it. Mind you, we didn't go together and it was like a time share.
My take on it all along has been that they just used us because they couldn't afford it -- of course they did. BIL and SIL had no down payment and not even $1.00 of equity so our paid half was their equity. The mortgage states if they can't pay the bank can claim the whole cabin after we have first choice of buying it. My H and I decided that is what we would do.
I have been wracking my brain and reading about mortgages, promissory notes and cabin sharing trying to figure out what scheme he could pull next.
I do want to keep it. If it gets too difficult we will get out of it. Actually, it is difficult, but now it's fall so maybe by next summer things will have been worked out.
New development: now they aren't talking to us at all. We tried to meet with them and it's a complete stonewall!
Bunnie -- I found the packaging for the sheets in their drawer. I took a photo of it and messaged it to them. I wasn't being a jerk I was just saying maybe the kids did something. Since it was 2 flat sheets maybe the kids made a tent. I don't really even care that much about the sheets, if they had them mixed in with theirs I just wanted them back.
Yes they blow-up to deflect. And they act like victims, that's exactly what I said. Then they don't allow us to defend ourselves. My husband still loves his baby bro. That's a big part of the problem, but it's waning. H is getting tired of it.
I hate to say this and I don't know where it's coming from. I'm not a spiteful, jealous person at all, but I find myself wishing they ran out of money and had to get out of it. They have 3 teenagers and I don't want them to suffer, but I still envision it.
:aaauuugh:
Well, that story certainly wins the prize for shameless, entitled, completely brazen behavior.
"My husband told BIL that if he was nasty to me we were out." Stonewalling counts as nasty in my book. Good luck.
Quote from: Danie on October 25, 2021, 08:35:18 PM
Bunnie -- I wasn't being a jerk I was just saying maybe the kids did something. Since it was 2 flat sheets maybe the kids made a tent. I don't really even care that much about the sheets, if they had them mixed in with theirs I just wanted them back.
I don't think you were being a jerk either. And I understood your intention in asking. They deliberately misunderstood and twisted it to put you on the defensive
I hate to say this and I don't know where it's coming from. I'm not a spiteful, jealous person at all, but I find myself wishing they ran out of money and had to get out of it. They have 3 teenagers and I don't want them to suffer, but I still envision it.
If you're anything like me, you're just envisioning a way for it all to be over so you can move on. I get that
Bunnie - :yes: :yes: :yes:
So we finally had a cabin meeting. In case you haven't read the thread my post was about my SIL and her reaction to me asking about misplaced bed-sheets at a cabin we share. SIL has refused, for 13 years, to sit down and talk about how 2 families would share a cabin. She wrote me a couple nasty texts over the sheets and said we (myself and H) were always "faulting" them over the cabin.
The meeting was BIL and SIL and me and H. SIL showed up looking very pissed. She wouldn't talk, share appetizers or have a beer. She just looked down, pale and angry. It was awkward to get started, but we got the conversation going and actually talked about plans to build a new deck and some other maintenance issues. My H and BIL got on great. They have great chemistry and respect for each other.
Finally, it was time for SIL to air her grievances. Her H had to coax her to talk. She blew up. Talked fast, a little loud, very emotional and angry; very emphatic. She was nasty. It wasn't a measured planned effort to work things out it was her spewing her irrational thoughts.
Her complaints were, and the main reason we had a meeting were: quote to me "You wrote your initials on condiments in the refrigerator" and "You wrote your name on the bottom of a bowl in the cupboard", "that's not how you share a family cabin". She said she had to walk on eggshells because of me. She said she spent an hour every time they arrived putting our belongings away and an hour before they left putting them back "exactly" where they were. She said she had to deny her little boy a bottle of water in the frig because it wasn't theirs. And she borrowed 1 pat of butter and had to go buy more to replace it.
She talked for quite a while and mentioned a few other things from years ago to build her case - things that were water under the bridge.
We did not (H and I) get defensive, but explained I wrote my initials on the condiments the one summer in 13 years so I could keep track of what we bought so we didn't use theirs. And that I wrote my name on a bowl because it was antique, as is the whole cabin, and I didn't want them to throw it out. When we purchased the cabin it was a resort and the sellers left a lot of stuff in the 8 cabins. BIL and SIL threw a lot of the older antiques out and I happen to like antiques - I never said anything about it. After I explained the bowl she barked "it shouldn't be in the community cupboard!" We didn't even know how to respond about the bottle of water or butter. We always just buy a case and stock it.
I think it would be best to get out of this situation, but H wants to wait and see (also a good approach). I think she is just too, um I don't know, irrational to be able to share this. She also mentioned she was on medication for anxiety and depression. I have compassion for people who are struggling, but I also know I don't need to be entangled with someone like this. She has never been friendly to me and we still never figured out how to go about sharing!
H and I have nothing there, we take everything back home. Seriously, there's a windup alarm clock, 2 lamps, a couple cabin-related books, and that is it! We can't figure out what she has to put away. She is, by the way, a hoarder. Under one of the beds there's a lot of unnecessary stuff. Several extra quilts, toys, shoes, you name it, that she leaves there.
We also found out that some of their guests actually went and slept at other cabins the weekend the sheets were lost. Most likely they grabbed ours from our drawers when they went. I didn't dare suggest it, I think she would've assaulted me.
I'm sure it's a relief that the meeting finally took place. The SIL sounds irrational. And there's not much we can do with irrational people until they center themselves. She's got lots going on with the anxiety/depression and hoarding behaviors. I'd want out of the arrangement, too. The last thing you want is for the cabin to be a source of frustration and discord. It's certainly not the reason you purchased it.
Thank you for the validation Bunnie. SIL also mentioned she is OCD which explains the irrationality, I think, and the concern about taking a bottle of water. I like how you said, "until she gets centered", I think she is working on it.
The biggest problem is getting her to communicate --- we can't figure out why is so unwilling to talk, yet, we wondered if we regretted getting her to meet after she shocked us by having a meltdown (sorry-not to be offensive to anyone) I guess I should say she was very, very emotional.
My instinct is to cut and run, end it, but maybe it's not the best thing to do. Like my H said we need to wait and see.
The wait and see approach with PD family members has had disastrous consequences for us. Determining your cutoff point based on SIL's communicating properly in the situation is a crap shoot. I'd recommend determining the cutoff point based on a dollar amount you're comfortable with.
Wait and see... Wait for what exactly? See what?
I'm not seeing the evidence that SIL is "working on it." Or more to the point, the evidence that you will ever have a more amicable relationship than you do now. You ask very reasonably to talk about your shared property, you finally manage to arrange a meeting after years of stonewalling and outright deceit, and you are punished with a "meltdown," a mess of DARVO word salad, and nothing whatsoever resolved in the end. You were afraid to mention the sheets, because SIL may have assaulted you. But wait and see? Bullocks.
They would lose the cabin if you pulled out and they have shown themselves more than capable of being utterly nasty to you. If they'll stoop this low over really, very little, what would they do if you denied them the cabin? Is that hell worth paying? Or would you rather just deal with the hell of them walking all over you, as you've chosen to do for the last 13 years? I think that's really the choice before you. If you've had enough of the status quo, it would be a declaration of war to them and they seem more than ready to fight dirty. Remorselessly tricking you into signing their mortgage, egads. If you pull out, how could you protect yourselves from the onslaught of smear campaigning and whatever other nasty tricks they would try?
I agree with both of you!! The problem is my H and his codependency on his brother! That was H's words "wait and see". I am suffering over this and am not sure what to do.
My husband has some money he inherited in an account that would cover what I personally invested from my inherited money. I suggested I take that account from him (not marital money) and if he wants to continue on with his brother with his own money and time he's welcome to as far as I'm concerned.
SIL and BIL are too dysfunctional to try to talk to alone. They defer to H and manipulate his tender heart. I alone could "force a sale", but it would cause a lot of chaos with my husband and I. I might have to do that.
The whole arrangement is called "Tenants-in-common" and legally you are supposed to let people out of it if they want out. I'm hoping and praying that H sees the light soon and we can work together.
I don't trust SIL or BIL. Thirteen years ago they said they would work on getting their own mortgage and getting us off of theirs. Well, they still have no equity because they take trips every year to Hawaii, SanDiego, New York, Mexico! BIL told us at the meeting that the cabin association wanted to replace the docks. Well BIL was complaining to us about that expense!! He even only pays half of what all the other 7 cabins pay because we split it.
Yes it is a mess. I am staying vigilant.
People issues aside, it sounds like the legal/financial entanglement is solvable.
The deal is: you're out, or they're out. You bow out and they deal with it. Or if they want to simplify it, they can bow out and you'll take it. The end.
But if that happens... omg... change locks... the answer is NO NO NO NO NO if they ever want to use it... just ONCE... we'll PAY RENT for it... NOOOOOOO.
I do understand the family entanglement is huge. But you know what? THEY blew it up when THEY deceived you. Not you. THEM.
That's great analysis. I agree totally. Unfortunately my H is still trying and is being stubborn so I'm focusing on my mental health and he can work his process. I'll be there when he comes around. H had a conversation with his brother last night (BIL) and was cut short, BIL was tired ::), and H looked pale and upset when he got off the phone.
Among other topics I guess we were accused of more things! 1.) We didn't respond accurately to one of their friends. OMG. They think they are going to monitor our behavior. And even worse, BIL said, "you want nice things there and get mad if they get wrecked".
This is totally fabricated! We've never gotten mad, nothing has been wrecked and we hardly have anything there.
My theory is they want us gone and are trying to wear us down because now they can verbally talk the banker into another loan to keep it. I feel angry and revengeful, but not going to go down that road. I'm going to look ahead at better times and be glad when we're done with them.
I'm 100 per cent with you.
I've experience of times when my husband hasn't seen how some things his family did were crossing boundaries.
I found that if I tried too much to make him see, he would become defensive. So I started to take a step back, and what I found was that he would then be more likely to see the issue for what it was.
They start off looking though different eyes. I don't doubt that from the way you described how he came off the phone, your husband is as upset and worried as you. He's just easier for them to get around.
At the moment.
But we all have our limits.
Anything they might say about your cabin usage, just ignore - try not to feel upset, or become defensive on it. I'm not sure why they are doing that, other than it's a side swipe, just to distract. Smoke and mirrors, maybe.
Don't let them come between a good team. I think they may be trying a 'divide and rule' policy. You and your husband are at different points along the path, but you have the same goal.
Thank you Nanotech. I think I can handle it from here. I find when I adhere to healthy behaviors, like focusing on myself instead of trying to figure them, out I usually end up in a better place. It feels bad now, but in the long run things will work out. And some good advice I learned about worrying is basically not to worry about something you can't fix, but be confident you can handle it when it happens.
Yes I can see from reading your posts more closely, that you were stepping back anyway. Great move.
I think the best thing I learned, ( fairly recently!) is that worrying isn't in any sense a form of control.
In of itself, it won't produce a good outcome.
We can develop a mistaken impression that we MUST worry each time a difficulty arises, because there was a good outcome in the past, when we worried! Yet the good outcome was, in reality, never the result of us worrying. It's just that the two actions become linked as cause and effect. The brain likes to find meaning where there's none sometimes! Xx
It will be almost 2 months since we had our cabin meeting, in a bar, where my SIL accused me of labeling condiments in the refrigerator which is not what one does when sharing a family cabin. According to her, I've also purchased and placed nice things, in our shared family cabin, as a way to highlight the financial inequity between their family and ours.
SIL, BIL and their 3 children will be coming on December 26th to spend the day with us and I am extremely anxious about it because nothing was really solved and SIL is not working on anything to change her attitude, as far as I know. I understand my husband needs his relatives and I support him. It's just really difficult to have to entertain them when I feel confused, blamed and frustrated. So I have to get through the day faking it and not being myself. My husband has chosen to carry on with sharing a cabin with them and pretend there isn't any personality conflict. He does get along with his brother pretty well. It seems BIL and SIL have turned me into the villain, in this situation, and they reinforce this by treating me as if I'm almost invisible and it hurts. I am choosing to think of the day as celebrating Christmas with my husband and the rest of the people are just miscellaneous.
I'm writing this as a way to validate my own feelings, anxiety-stress-confusion-anger, because the rest of the group chooses to not really deal with it and I don't want to stuff my feelings. Throughout the day I am going to stop-breathe and remind myself that my feelings are valid and I'm just going along to keep the peace.
Me, if put in situation of being compelled to entertain hostile folks in my own home, I would respond, very calmly and businesslike, to rude or disdainful comments with a "oh, that's not nice" and "oh, that's not kind" statements in response. I'd not provoke, but I'd also not let bad behavior go unnoted. The sooner you redirect SIL, the sooner she'll watch herself.
QuoteSIL, BIL and their 3 children will be coming on December 26th to spend the day with us and I am extremely anxious about it because nothing was really solved and SIL is not working on anything to change her attitude, as far as I know. I understand my husband needs his relatives and I support him. It's just really difficult to have to entertain them when I feel confused, blamed and frustrated. So I have to get through the day faking it and not being myself.
Where is your husband in all this? Yes, I get he loves/wants to spend time with his brother, but he also has a responsibility to you. I'm not saying he should cancel the visit (is this in your home or the cabin?) but he should at least be taking on the lion's share of entertaining/planning/hosting because it's not fair to have you waiting on people who treat you so badly.
Quote from: Danie on November 11, 2021, 10:23:50 AM
And even worse, BIL said, "you want nice things there and get mad if they get wrecked".
This is totally fabricated! We've never gotten mad, nothing has been wrecked and we hardly have anything there.
Quote from: Danie on December 17, 2021, 04:12:15 PM
According to her, I've also purchased and placed nice things, in our shared family cabin, as a way to highlight the financial inequity between their family and ours.
I have no idea about the legal aspect of things but there seems to be a communication break down. You mention an antique bowl you labelled with your initials that you didn't want thrown out. There are nice sheets you bought that you didn't want used. There seems to be comments that you hardly have anything there however there are comments about nice things you have bought to the cabin.
To start with, I would not have anything new or nice at the cabin. If you want nice sheets, take them with you when you go to stay and bring them home. Have normal bowls etc so if they break it doesn't matter and it also doesn't matter who uses them. I wouldn't decorate the place with anything nice. If there are other people visiting, friends of your BIL things can go missing or be broken.
Your SIL has anxiety and other things which means she may not be communicating well although she may be trying. Don't take anything personally.
I can't say anything about what's happening legally or what you should do however if you are sharing I would change how you approach common items in the cabin. Remove the antique bowl, if the sheets went missing I would ignore this however I would no longer store any items there, just take sheets etc with you or buy really cheap ones to keep there so if they go missing again, it doesn't matter.
It's normal to replace any used item if it needs replacing. Perhaps there should be a common rule that any food item is for common use however if it's used and needs to be replaced, it gets replaced before whoever is there leaves, unless it's something with an expiry.
If things are really bad the only other thing is if you have a set bedroom you use and it's considered yours perhaps you could put a lock on it and no one else uses it in your absence. I don't know how many bedrooms there are or if your BIL friends would use all the bedrooms. If others are going to use all the bedrooms, I certainly wouldn't want to keep anything of mine there.
It's great you are going to take a step back. If you are going to help pay for a deck then I would want to know I will feel welcome coming to use the cabin. If your SIL is having to spend an hour putting your stuff away for each visit I would want to check to see what stuff she is having to move. I would do this so I could move it myself or think about storing it differently. I would follow up with them and say that with time to think about it you don't want to inconvenience her and I would get her to list the items, that way you can ascertain if she has a genuine gripe or if she projecting, considering she has stuff spread everywhere. There should be no reason she can't let you know what items she has to move, but if she does give you a list, perhaps you can think about storing things differently which will help in a common space. I would take the emotion out of it. If she can't come up with a list then you start getting a picture of her being irrational. Then you can start to think about whether it is worth it, sharing a cabin with an irrational person.
Thank you HILLTOP for breaking it down for me. I like your suggestions, but am I going too far to accommodate her when she doesn't communicate much - only when she was mad? I don't know. At least if I do that I'm covered and can't be blamed for decorating with "nice" things. The few nice things I did add were meant for everyone's use or enjoyment and only to the room that is designated ours (which I know they use) and we're fine with! A wind-up alarm clock for $38.00, a framed and signed original photo from a friend who is a well-known photographer. The bowl is really a garage-sale quality, but I just so happened to like it. That's it!! I sware. The bedsheets, I think she thinks they're nice because it's a set and they match - from Walmart. Yes, when we use the cabin I will place my niceties and remove them when we leave and not do any upgrades.
We had a cabin-association meeting, last Sunday, January 16, in the hometown of most of the cabin owners including SIL and BIL. It's an hour drive for us, but not a problem. SIL and BIL didn't show up. SIL is "not interested" and BIL went to a movie. They were the only ones not present out of 8 families. They can get caught up on issues (new docks-fix internet-utilities) but my husband and I are, once again, sort of confused by their behavior. It would have been such a perfect time to get together and chat about summer and the cabin! I wonder if I am blind to what the heck is going on with them. I'm back to my gut-feeling of they really don't want this situation with us, just the financial benefits of us being their collateral for their loan which they are still paying. Even if I'm correct about that, I worry that they will pull something again ad not be honest with us. I know I can't control what they do and I will survive it if they do, but this is crap. We've decided this is our trial summer with them and if they don't come around and act like they're into this we're done.
This is just my opinion, so take it with a large grain of salt. :)
In your shoes, for my own sanity, I would need to do this:
QuoteMy husband has some money he inherited in an account that would cover what I personally invested from my inherited money. I suggested I take that account from him (not marital money) and if he wants to continue on with his brother with his own money and time he's welcome to as far as I'm concerned.
I would need to get out entirely of all financial/legal entanglements concerning this property.
I would then take time to recover which would include taking seriously all the mental/emotional energy expended. Imagine if all the hours of struggle were paid labor? You surely are working just as hard, if not more, than that.
Then I would figure out how I can support (or not) my husband. I'd suggest a good attorney and also a therapist for him.
QuoteI worry that they will pull something again ad not be honest with us. I know I can't control what they do and I will survive it if they do, but this is crap. We've decided this is our trial summer with them and if they don't come around and act like they're into this we're done.
I personally would not be able to directly engage in a trial summer. That sounds like a set up for an anxious, difficult summer. Our time is precious.
In your situation I think I myself would also need some short term therapy to help me sort things out.
The red flags of warning are already flying briskly. I myself would need to stop trying to figure it all out, and get away. :hug:
Great advice, Serenity Calm.
I see you picked out "my" statements and fed them back to me, and they are key statements.
I need to start to disconnect from this, it's too dysfunctional and my time is precious. I had disconnected, years ago, and re-connected, but it's not going well.
Thank for your directness. My therapist said BIL and SIL just wanted us as their caretakers and I never forgot that. BIL's boat (pontoon) is on the cabin property and it's trashed because he could not take care of it and he left it uncovered. He wants to buy a new one this year. He had planned on my H being his free boat mechanic, back in 2012, but I put an end to that and I wasn't popular. This is proof to me and my H that BIL had planned on H taking care of him. My H is very passive, but getting stronger, He is learning to stand up to BIL.
We have 2 other, unrelated, vacations planned for this summer. I am retired, I don't need this.
I really feel for you in this situation Danie. It sounds utterly exhausting. Now you can reclaim all that energy drained by BIL and SIL. You and your husband can enjoy some well deserved fun this summer.
One of many reasons I personally would need to be out of that situation is because it is a slow rolling disaster that has peaks of chaos and could eventually involve a big blow out. Legal, financial, probably there are going to be more consequences for them. I'd want to be clear of that. I would not want to be pulled further into their chaos.
You deserve an enjoyable fun retirement.
They sound very difficult to deal with. I am wondering though, would you be able to get out of this situation. You need your BIL and SIL to agree to buy your half or sell their half if you want to buy each other out. If you decide to sell, once again you need your BIL and SIL to agree as they own half.
I suppose see how the summer goes but if there are ongoing issues do you think your husband is really going to go through with trying to sell, it seems he is happy with how things are.
New drama and a question (or 2).
Well it's cabin season. We are (H and I) are considering this our final trial summer and so far we don't see any changes in SIL. As a matter of fact, there's more confusion as some of you predicted. It's not worth analyzing too much, but we can't wrap our head around her recent strange endeavor.
Last summer we purchased 2 paddleboards for our cabin and told BIL it they were available for them to use as well. They have 3 very sports-minded teenagers. BIL sounded gracious and said "great, the kids will like that!" I like to stay busy and fit as well. They were kind of difficult to acquire because they are hard to transport so I ordered them online from a nearby outdoor and fleet farm type store and had them delivered. SIL and BIL fam went to cabin a couple times last year, but never said anything and we're not sure they used them....that's ok. I guess.
So, BIL's family opened the cabin this weekend. They purchased a new pontoon boat and wanted to get it in the water. They live 4-5 hours away from the cabin. BIL told my H that they also purchased 2 paddleboards. My H didn't say anything. We are confused. There's no room to store 4 of them. Without thinking negative about them (maybe they just wanted their own) is this some kind of statement from SIL?
BIL also said we will be passing nearby your home and if we break down with new boat will we go rescue him?? I don't know what my H told him, but that's pretty narcissistic if you ask me.
As I said, it's our trial year and we are considering other options. SIL, once again, is totally shut down from us. She will not talk or associate much with us. Certainly nothing about the shared cabin. Over Christmas, we saw her, and they were talking about their new boat and her goal is to teach her kids to drive it for when they go on their own! Yikes, that just shocked me. So 7 adults, their friends, they don't fix or maintain it now sharing a tiny 475 foot cabin.
I think they should find a new one since they have groups of people. What do you think?
One more question: my SIL has said many times to me, "It's a FAMILY cabin". I looked up family cabin and the definition is "a nostalgic idea of summer days and happiness..." I don't know what's she's trying to convey. We purchased it Tenants-in-commom. So it's 50-50 right now. We share and work it out. Any thoughts or info on this?
Danie - I am sorry the lack of clear communication and what sounds like a kind of unspoken break in the relationships with your sil, at least.
The family cabin definition is pretty obviously not the same for you and your sil.
QuoteI was furious, when I figured it out, and went to an attorney who suggested we create a document around this to protect ourselves. We did this and we all agreed on some things, like, if they can't make a payment they will let us know. I felt better about it, but it definitely created some bad feelings.
This seems to be the place where the rest of this animosity you are on the receiving end comes from. A break in trust and a serious misstep by your bil/sil which they didn't expect to be confronted with, if I am understanding correctly.
Is is possible, given how much you love the cabin, to remove yourself from communication details about paddle boards, etc., and see it as a financial investment and let the 'family cabin' dream and idea go?
You have said they leave it clean and bil assists with bigger repairs. Is it possible to let that be between the two brothers and just enjoy your dream cabin?
Bloomie, I'm going to try. I worry that they might pull another scam so I'm kind of hyper-vigilant. As I've learned from T I cannot control some things and it doesn't do any good to worry. I can trust myself that I will handle whatever comes my way. Thanks Bloomie. Very good advice.