This is for discussing weird stuff and/or boundary violations happening in my home. So you don't have to refer to another thread, I'll tell you that I'm a married mother crammed in with my mom and her husband. My mom snooped in my stuff and told my son even though it had nothing to do with him or with any other household members. My son harasses me about my medical problems. There's this mentality going around that my medical issues are in my head. It's true that a psychological trauma may have caused some of it, but that doesn't mean that the physical part doesn't happen. My boy is being encouraged to harass me and my husband tried to gaslight me and threw bad things that had happened to me in the past back in my face. Also, the piece of paper my mom looked at was IN A BAG folded up and yet she tried to play it off as her unintentionally seeing it. I specifically kept it there because of that. I didn't know she'd still go that far now that I'm older. (The bag was in my multi-purpose den/bedroom/computer room.)
Keeping ya posted,
me
I cant believe that all four of them are abusing you. You need to get away from them.imo
I'm really sorry that people around you is treating you this way. People around you are uneducated and say meaningless things. Psychological problems cause physical problems. For example, my doctor discovered that I probably have a magnesium deficiency that causes me terrible muscular pains. What is the cause of my magnesium deficiency, not my diet, but prolonged stress to psychological abuse and hypervigilance and anxiety. All this has dried up my magnesium reserves. As a result, my tendonitis had no chance of improving with a magnesium deficiency.
I can totally relate to two things you mentioned.
The first being how they "oops" "accidentally" "find" a very private letter, document, what have you...never mind it is hidden from obvious sight, put in a bag, box, drawer that any person with even the most rudimentary manners knows not to go in....
Mother took advantage of my kindness when I was much younger, and I foolishly allowed her to spend the night in the 2nd bedroom of an apartment I had, because she insisted that if she didn't stay the night she would get in a car accident due to low blood sugar on her way home after getting labs done, or some such cock and bull story. What I later realized is she knew I had to be to work, and therefore there would be an interim of time she could be alone in my apartment.
And she took full advantage, snooping about. And then had the absurd gall to leave me a note about what she found! It was a poem love letter written to me, had NOTHING to do with her, yet she perceived that some of the lines HAD to be about her and how insulted she was. Actually left me a letter admonishing me about it!!
Upon leaving, she also left the door to my place unlocked for the remainder of the day...putting my safety and valuables at risk.
How ruthless the narc is indeed.
The 2nd part I can relate to is how our problems, be it health, finances, what have you....can never ever possibly compare to what they are going through, or have gone through...you have a back ache, you don't know a back ache till you had one of theirs...you're having a hard time...you don't know hard times until you've walked in their shoes...you have health issues, again either it cannot compare to theirs...or it's all in your head...and the gasligting begins.
And it doesn't matter how old the "child" is, you can be an older adult, and they will still snoop through your things, unabashed.
Boundaries are nothing to them, they only serve to enrage them, or ironically a source of narc supply when they get a rise out of you from crossing them.
I think PB's right, you're being abused by more than one person in your home. I'm sorry to read that, it must be hell, having to live like that every day. I can empathize with you on that one. Made the mistake, I'm embarrassed to admit, more than once, of sharing living space with mother and others.
Never again though. Never again.
It's got to be hard not having your husband on your side, where he belongs.
Also, anyone with any kind of medical background or knowledge is compelled to agree that we are holistic beings, and what affects our mental and spiritual selves, most certainly affects our physical selves. Stress, being abused, can cause long lasting health problems. I read that fibro and CFS is associated with a history of being abused as a child.
I still have physical and mental health issues, but there's been marked improvement since going NC 4 months ago.
Another entry in my log
She worked out today and when she came home she immediately started harassing me over using my small humidifier, which belonged to me and which I was using in my own room. I wasn't doing something I'd been asked not to do. My throat and sinuses have been bothering me today. I'm not sure exactly what's wrong, but I figured why not take the maximum steps doable for my well-being...right?
Then all I did was drink orange juice in the kitchen and comment on something on TV that had nothing to do with our issues and she started in on me like "I wish with all my heart" and another denial of my medical problems. At this moment I don't feel safe going up to get ice cream. I need to repair relationships with my family.
I need to get out of here once the pandemic precautions relax. Maybe I'll go into that later.
I am sorry this continues. Have you checked the toolbox? https://outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do so you can do your part to not escalate if possible. Your health issues are none of her buisness.
I told her we'd talk when she wasn't in that kind of mood, or something like that. There have been times when it's escalated, though.
Quote from: mcmlxxix on June 04, 2020, 09:38:43 AM
I told her we'd talk when she wasn't in that kind of mood, or something like that. There have been times when it's escalated, though.
:applause: great job!
Yes when and if she calms down you may share with her more ; or not its up to you she has no right to the information and if she keeps gaslighting you that 'you are not ill' :ninja: you do have every right to ignore her when she brings it up.
Hang in there! You know the truth. Hold onto that.
I can't do this. My son was harassing me again. I'll keep this short because it's late and I'm not thinking completely clearly, but I feel trapped.
My H's updM use to send his children home with smart offs and one liners; verbatim something she had already said to H. It was a sick game she used her grand children as flying monkeys when they didnt even fully understand what was going on.
My H would do 'large chill' responses. He would not engage about the adult subjects brought up in this way.
Could you use 'medium chill' responses or even refuse to engage with your son when he brings up the issues that are not his concern?
Medium Chill is disengaging emotionally and giving neutral responses to what someone does or says. The focus is on you, your feelings and needs, not the other person or their feelings and needs. Someone using Medium Chill is assertive without being confrontational. They will give no appearance of withdrawal, and they will maintain a pleasant and calm tone of voice and demeanor... Don't share any personal information...
Examples here https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/medium-chill
I'm sorry that is happening to you and can relate, PD's are very disrespectful of boundaries.
When I tried to set a simple boundary of my father only calling me once a week, he ignored it and kept calling. When I didn't pick up, he drove an hour and tried to force his way into my apartment! They truly are sick people.
My son is 16 and kind of doesn't know better. I've had my authority taken away from me and I'd like to hope that he would know better otherwise. I need to repair my relationship with the girls and with him. My husband's in denial that anything's wrong. My relationship with my youngest is ok, but could be better. My middle child ignores me or makes noises at me and she has no special needs, nor does she make her noises playfully, but disrespectfully. . . Since my son DOES know what it means when he's told to stop I do get angry with him sometimes. I already had to hide from my mom's husband in the kitchen. Now add my son...
Yeah. A bunch of other things as well. I might ask for certain types of pointers later on, such as reducing contact or even dealing with courts..
And today she woke me up just to complain about some towel that was somewhere she didn't prefer...I have a LOT of difficulties if I wake up at that part of my sleep cycle, so I had to go back to sleep, which I did quickly, but I don't know how long it took me to get back to that point. While this is far from tragic it was an extremely inconsiderate gesture. It could have waited.
I know I procrastinate, but I'll eventually post asking for pointers and/or telling more of my story.
Thanks for caring.
She was so manipulative today, interrogating my husband when his guard was down. He threw the opportunities I hadn't had back in my face again. I need him to be proud of me. I've reached a point in my life where I want to be seen for who I really am. She was also threatening to make me look crazy and dangerous.
Yesterday she went through my room and did some tasks that I was saving for later, which was one of the few things I had control over. Also, husband exploded at me when I said we would work things out later this week.
I was going to edit my last post, but I can't figure out how to do that. Anyway, on Sunday, she sent my youngest over to my sister's without consulting my husband. Maybe he would have said yes, but still. Also, today she was commenting on my use of mild OTC pain meds mostly to help my throat problems, even though I try to minimize it and felt good about no longer needing as much.
Hi. I believe you only have a short amount of time after you post to modify the post.
The book 'Controlling People' comes to mind. You may find it an explanation of familiarity. It opened my eyes. I didnt know there were people like that.
She has no idea who you are. She is forcing you into a role that she made up for you in her mind.
She sounds very unstable from what you have shared. So you could look at it this way: 'are you going to let an unstable person tell you what to do and how to think'?
You felt good about something it seems like that may be why she had to poopoo on it.
Maybe put her on an information diet. Tell her as little about yourself as possible. If she asks you "how many otc pain pills did you take" you can say "im not sure" or "i dont know" or "why do you ask" or "none". Or just stare blankly and say nothing then leave the room.
IMO the best possible gift you could give yourself is to let go of wanting or needing her acceptance. IMO her opinion of you matters only if you want it to.
If she has made her feelings about you clear your job imo is to sccept that as her 'stuff'. Dont think another minute about it. She is entitled to her opinion. Her opinion is not reality. You dont have to agree with it. You dont have to try to convince her of the truth. You know the truth. That is what you can focus on.
If you want to state the truth do so one time but dont let her pull you into arguments.
Quote from: PeanutButter on June 25, 2020, 12:58:21 AM
Hi. I believe you only have a short amount of time after you post to modify the post.
The book 'Controlling People' comes to mind. You may find it an explanation of familiarity. It opened my eyes. I didnt know there were people like that.
She has no idea who you are. She is forcing you into a role that she made up for you in her mind.
She sounds very unstable from what you have shared. So you could look at it this way: 'are you going to let an unstable person tell you what to do and how to think'?
You felt good about something it seems like that may be why she had to poopoo on it.
Maybe put her on an information diet. Tell her as little about yourself as possible. If she asks you "how many otc pain pills did you take" you can say "im not sure" or "i dont know" or "why do you ask" or "none". Or just stare blankly and say nothing then leave the room.
IMO the best possible gift you could give yourself is to let go of wanting or needing her acceptance. IMO her opinion of you matters only if you want it to.
If she has made her feelings about you clear your job imo is to sccept that as her 'stuff'. Dont think another minute about it. She is entitled to her opinion. Her opinion is not reality. You dont have to agree with it. You dont have to try to convince her of the truth. You know the truth. That is what you can focus on.
If you want to state the truth do so one time but dont let her pull you into arguments.
Third paragraph, yes. I might tell specific examples sometime later.
I've stopped asking her to pick up the pain meds if she's the next to run errands. My husband told her that he was running the errand, but at least I'll have an improvement. They're liquid ones, as I'm very gradually reintroducing myself to solid foods, part of the reason why I'm harassed around the home. I'm not looking for her approval and usually think I wouldn't want it even if I could have it because of the way it would have to be, but as an introvert I have issues with being harassed and especially at random. I have perspective on her gaslighting now, but when my boy was little it almost ruined my life. It seems you can only know if you've been there. It's not like hearing rude comments in the halls at school; people like her are people who figure out how to say things in a way you can't ignore. It takes a long time to learn how to deal with that and even then you don't necessarily do it perfectly.
So....It turns out that even she's starting to take issue with the way my middle child acts. When the issue was my doing her hair both my mom and her husband encouraged the behavior. Our 12-yr-old girl makes noises at me (and her sister as it turns out). She's overdramatic. We'll see what happens there. I'm only mentioning it because she was groomed to be that way. I also called my mom out on the hypocrisy of claiming toxicity to the liver, pointing out the pills she pumped me full of and tried to pump me full of.
QuoteI've stopped asking her to pick up the pain meds if she's the next to run errands. My husband told her that he was running the errand, but at least I'll have an improvement. They're liquid ones, as I'm very gradually reintroducing myself to solid foods, part of the reason why I'm harassed around the home. I'm not looking for her approval and usually think I wouldn't want it even if I could have it because of the way it would have to be, but as an introvert I have issues with being harassed and especially at random. I have perspective on her gaslighting now, but when my boy was little it almost ruined my life. It seems you can only know if you've been there. It's not like hearing rude comments in the halls at school; people like her are people who figure out how to say things in a way you can't ignore. It takes a long time to learn how to deal with that and even then you don't necessarily do it perfectly.
So....It turns out that even she's starting to take issue with the way my middle child acts. When the issue was my doing her hair both my mom and her husband encouraged the behavior. Our 12-yr-old girl makes noises at me (and her sister as it turns out). She's overdramatic. We'll see what happens there. I'm only mentioning it because she was groomed to be that way. I also called my mom out on the hypocrisy of claiming toxicity to the liver, pointing out the pills she pumped me full of and tried to pump me full of.
It isnt you! You are not to blame for her behavior. No matter what you do or don't do it will be something. She is creating the chaos in her mind ime.
I heard once that psychological abusers don't just know what your buttons are and how to push them; THEY INSTALLED YOUR BUTTONS! That is why it absolutely is completely different than someone just mouthing off rudely.
O yes the hypocrisy. The rules my abusers enforce and even make up are for everyone else but NOT them.
I don't mind open windows in the room, but she was in without permission and tried to use the fact that my husband was communicating with his job as an excuse when I had been very much available to ask. I would have given her permission just for that one thing. My husband was in there, but after that snooping incident I made it clear that I wanted her to ask permission. I'd have listed other incidents if I hadn't taken some time off posting here. Things need to change, but I'm scared of trying to reason with my husband, and there are other things to hurdle..
I waked in on my mom doing my son's hair. He's 16 and she used to be a nurse and not a hairdresser. Then when I tried to tell him to do his hair every day and he tried to use my medical problems to humiliate me into silence. I'm ticked. This dysfunction...My husband's in denial about it. I've been trying to do things the traditional way, so I have next to no money and I'm at that awkward in-between. I can't even say the least little thing that's common sense parenting.
Things have been picking up lately. She went in my room even though I had put the garbages out so she wouldn't have to do that and threw some things out without permission. She made some excuse. She started talking loudly in response to me and her husband tried to equate my being offended about the boundary violation with that. Then they started butting in about decibel level and portraying me as a certain kind of parent because those are their go-to distractions. He tried to twist my words around and then claimed not to know the definition of Baby Boomer, which was a distraction type of thing either way. He hassled me about my mannerisms. I do gesture widely and I'm not sorry. I called him out on the bullying of hassling people over it. Also, I told my husband I'm tired of keeping my mouth shut to keep the peace.
My 12-year-old was trying to trigger me or something like that. . . The psychological games she was playing would make you think that what I'd put for her age was a typo, but it isn't a typo. She's in a toxic environment. At 12 I was barely (sometimes not at all) aware that psychological games like that existed. Not that I wasn't in a toxic environment at that age, but I wasn't psychologically complex. If I had my proper authority she wouldn't be like that, although I'm pretty sure she still would have had a bit of a will about her.
IMO The great thing about healing the self is that we get to take responsibility for our emotions. Instead of needing our children and others to NOT trigger us we deal with our unhealed wounds by working on our inner narrative around those. We sit with the pain identifying and ackowledging the origin of it. We learn the healthiest responses instead of being reactive towards someone who has knowingly or unknowingly pushed our button.
Your daughter at 12 cannot take your authority from you unless you willingly give it up. You are the parent. You are the adult. You are responsible for your relationship with her. IME
Your daughter at 12 does not have the same brain function as you do as an adult.
"Based on the stage of their brain development, adolescents are more likely to:
act on impulse
misread or misinterpret social cues and emotions
get into accidents of all kinds
get involved in fights
engage in dangerous or risky behavior" https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and_Youth/Facts_for_Families/FFF-Guide/The-Teen-Brain-Behavior-Problem-Solving-and-Decision-Making-095.aspx
"It's not that teens don't have frontal- lobe capabilities but rather that their signals are not getting to the back of the brain fast enough to regulate their emotions. It's why risk-taking and impulsive behavior are more common among teens and young adults". https://time.com/4929170/inside-teen-teenage-brain/
"The rational part of a teen's brain isn't fully developed and won't be until age 25 or so
What's a parent to do?
You're the most important role model your kids have. Sure, their friends are important to them, but the way you behave and fulfill your responsibilities will have a profound and long-lasting effect on your children.
•Discussing the consequences of their actions can help teens link impulsive thinking with facts. This helps the brain make these connections and wires the brain to make this link more often.
•Remind your teens that they're resilient and competent. Because they're so focused in the moment, adolescents have trouble seeing they can play a part in changing bad situations. It can help to remind them of times in the past they thought would be devastating, but turned out for the best.
•Become familiar with things that are important to your teens. It doesn't mean you have to like hip-hop music, but showing an interest in the things they're involved in shows them they're important to you.
•Ask teens if they want you to respond when they come to you with problems, or if they just want you to listen.
Parents tend to jump in with advice to try to fix their children's problems or place blame. But this can make teens less likely to be open with their parents in the future. You want to make it emotionally safe and easy for them to come to you, so you can be part of their lives." https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=1&ContentID=3051
IMO is it possible to get your daughter counseling?
Good luck.
The adults are the ones taking the authority from me.
Maybe you're confusing "trigger" with "provoke." Being triggered isn't a choice and most people DO try to do something about it as they don't actually LIKE being triggered. It's a potential trigger even being blamed for this sort of thing. It's also a potential trigger to have it insinuated that there's something mature and noble about being the nice one in situations. I've heard it from people trying to avoid accountability or consequences.
Anyone who thinks that being traumatized is a choice has never been genuinely traumatized. It's an involuntary mechanism. There's nothing wrong with me if something's potentially traumatic. I AM working on recovery, so let's not perpetuate the idea that if something's triggering it means someone has a bad attitude.
Another potential one is the insinuation that I didn't do enough. . . It took me a long time to know that something was happening. Also, it can be dangerous to portray young adolescents as impulsive. I was falsely portrayed that way and ended up pumped full of dangerous pills, which even in the 21st century is still portrayed as a reflection on you if it happens.
It took me a long time to join another forum and I thought I could avoid the trauma that I'd experienced on those by being nicer. Now I don't know whether it's working. .
My understanding was pertaining to the kind of triggers like this article describe. https://lakesidelink.com/blog/trauma/parents-with-trauma-histories-can-be-triggered-when-parenting/
I don't understand what I'm doing wrong communication-wise. I'm being treated like some sort of hypersensitive person when I'm anything but. Maybe I could start proofreading a bit better, but other than that I don't know what's going on.
Self compassion is vital to healing.imo Giving yourself permission to make mistakes is a healthy gift to yourself ime.
Even though I do not have a CPTSD diagnosis all of the information about CPTSD and PTSD have been empowering for me because I was emotionally, verbally, physically, and sexually abused as a child. The symptoms of triggers, emotional flashbacks, and anxiety are what I needed to address in order to get healthier. And I found that information with CPTSD.
I was empowered to find out that to address these issues was possible without needing my H or my children to do anything different. They could go on being themselves without worrying about whether they would trigger me. I now had techniques to get through without being 'scary' or 'devastated' to them when I was triggered. The residual effects of my abuse was impacting not just me but my family. I did not want that to continue. They needed a healthier 'whole' me.
Here is some snippets and links to articles that I found that mention the life changing points I speak of.
"..understanding PTSD effects and watching for them in yourself..can be crucial in getting the necessary help, support, and treatment..effects of PTSD can impact how someone interacts with people in their lives..that make life difficult for the person experiencing PTSD as well as family members, friends, and others" ..Family and friends of someone experiencing PTSD sometimes find it difficult to know what to do
https://www.healthyplace.com/ptsd-and-stress-disorders/ptsd/physical-and-emotional-effects-of-ptsd
"It's important to become aware of your PTSD triggers in order to start preventing future PTSD flashbacks. Once you know what they are, you can learn how to deal with them or avoid them"
https://www.healthyplace.com/ptsd-and-stress-disorders/ptsd/why-do-flashbacks-happen-causes-of-a-ptsd-flashback
"It's important to first realize that flashbacks are not a re-experiencing of the event , but, rather a very vivid memory – something that happened in the past no matter how real it feels, flashbacks are not trauma happening in the current moment; flashbacks are symptoms of PTSD only.
..connect with your body and the current moment when coping with a flashback..called grounding
Name the experience as a flashback
Use language that categorizes the flashbacks as a memory
Name what you see, feel, hear, smell and taste
Rub your hands together
Touch, feel the chair that is supporting you
Wiggle your toes
Remember your favorite color and find three things in the room that are that color
Name the date, month, year and season
Count backward from 100
Use an object as a grounding tool
Deep breathing
Recognizing what would make you feel safer
Confide in someone
Give yourself time to heal
Peer support"
https://www.healthyplace.com/ptsd-and-stress-disorders/ptsd/how-to-cope-with-and-stop-ptsd-flashbacks
I started using the technique of focusing on my body during a trauma triggered episode it got me out of the 'stuck in my head' feeling where I could not regulate my emotions and doing simple breathing exercises calms my para sympathetic nervous system which allows my reasoning brain to start getting signals again.
It may all sound like "huh?' but it surprisingly works and if you are desperate enough like I was because I needed trauma therapy but didn't get it so why not what can it hurt?