Why don’t estranged parents just apologize?

[lotusblume]

Why do they try every other trick in the book, but cannot muster an apology?

Why don't they consider that maybe saying "I'm truly sorry for my behaviour and it's impact on you and our relationship" would be a great place to start?

Why don't they say sorry, when you explicitly or implicitly tell them, usually numerous times, that it would be a good idea?

Why do they Hoover, guilt trip, manipulate, play victim, martyr, caring parent, instead of getting real?

Why do they rug sweep, pretend nothing happened, try to press the reset button, and live in a parallel universe where simply being polite will cause a reunion?

I guess I know. They just can't. They are emotionally immature, and they cannot understand it.

Does it mean you should stay estranged forever?

I got the birthday Hoover, all sugar and spice, and I'm pretty sure they have heard through the grapevine that I'm pregnant. I know that people who I haven't even told, flying monkeys, know. And the Hoover's were hinting that they knew.

So I wrote back, I wrote a long and lengthy email, describing the problem even more in detail, why I think the patterns of the relationship between us will stay the same as long as they stay in denial. I spelled out another hundred verses. I gave the answers.

But my problem is, I still want them to change. It's wrong, I know. I want them to at least try. If I accept things the way they are, I can't talk to them. It's too triggering. They may be cool for a bit, but things will go exactly back. That's my prediction anyways.

The thing is, they are trying, to the point of what they are capable.

Aren't I supposed to be allowing them to remain exactly as they are, and putting up boundaries? Why do I keep falling back into the rescuing pattern, trying to fix and save and change and enlighten them? Is that what I'm doing by pointing out the problem between us?

[Andeza]

You said it, I'm afraid. If you accept them the way they are you can't talk to them. That means to accept the status quo is to accept the end of the relationship entirely in this case. I'm sorry, I really am. I'm in much the same boat. I know uBPDm can't change. She's incapable of it. And as rock hard as my boundaries were, she pushed and shoved a time too many. No amount of contact with her was possible for me without consequences. Too much anger, too much rage - in me. I railed at her inability to see her faults and problems and change them. But inwardly. I burned in knowledge that she couldn't just... grow up. But I knew that something would have to change, and since she couldn't, I would.

The more you grow, in some cases, the more repugnant their behavior becomes. For some of us, I truly believe there is no going back. I can't say for certain that's the case for you and your parents, but I know it is for me. She won't do the work, because it's hard, or she's scared, or she doesn't think she should have to, or I should just love her unconditionally and put up with endless full metal waif and mother knows best because.... FaaaaMMMMillllYYY!!!

But "family" doesn't get a free pass to use us and abuse us.

You have to break the programming. You can't save people that don't want to be saved. You can't rescue them from themselves. I am sorry, Lotusblume. I'm sorry that any of us have to be here because of them. Much love to you and the little one.

[DistanceNotDefense]

I am so sorry, lotusblume. We have to walk an awful tightrope, don't we? We have to really get to know ourselves and what we can tolerate, and accept what FOO cannot be for us. It's really not fair. Falling on one side is enmeshment, falling on the other side is freedom, but with a much more limited relationship...or no relationship at all....

I come from the same camp as Andeza, unfortunately. Staying in the dynamic meant constant pressure and passive-aggression to push me back into the role FOO raised me up to play since the beginning. That's just not what I could be to be happy. It hurts I can't have a relationship with my family...it hurt worse that I just didn't want to be (and naturally wasn't) the person they wanted and needed me to be to keep them comfortable. When it comes down to it, I was never what I wanted them to be, and that's something I'm learning to accept too.

We're seriously forced to choose between the lesser of two evils almost: to choose what feels like "selfishness" and eschewing family just to survive, feel whole, and have relationships beyond family that threaten them (which is the unthinkable and no one should have to choose that), or give up all potential for our individuation, growth, peace of mind, and FOC relationships to just take care of our families and keep them "comfy" (also unthinkable). I chose the former.

I got the birthday Hoover, all sugar and spice, and I'm pretty sure they have heard through the grapevine that I'm pregnant. I know that people who I haven't even told, flying monkeys, know. And the Hoover's were hinting that they knew.

This is awful. Your birthday should be about you!

I'm NC only a few months and my birthday is coming up. I'm bracing for the birthday hoover. I don't know if I want to hear what they have to say out of morbid curiosity (but risk being sent into a tailspin of guilt and self-doubt and needing days/weeks to recover, during my birthday no less) or blocking them so I can just enjoy my birthday, but feel guilty that I cut off any potential messages from them. I can't believe I have to even face this choice, like I said, it is unthinkable.

(P.S. If I remember correctly, you and I are in very similar situations with the way our FOO have our condemned our DH's as abusive, and tried to drive a wedge into our marriages from the beginning. Just remember you have a wonderful, loving, and caring FOC by your side! My FOO probably thinks my DH's gift to me for my birthday will be letting me out of my cage. )

[BrightMoon]

Im really struggling with this too. I seem unable to really come to terms emotionally with the reality of my mother. I have spent years of my life explaining things to her to try to get her to understand, years answering her endless questions of why I am not okay with her abuse that she denies exists. And her reaction? None. She literally never even reacts - doesnt even show any emotional reaction on her face. Never addresses the issue I raise. Often doesnt even comment.

I recently explained how I struggled as a teenager and cried every day for years, for hours at a time, and never understood how she couldnt have heard me since the walls in our home were not very thick. Did she say 'gosh, Im so sorry to hear that!'? 'My goodness, I never knew!'? Did she even give an excuse of 'I thought you needed to be alone'? No. It was met by silence. And not a flicker of emotion on her face. Nothing. Like I'd not even said anything. She didnt even look awkward about it.  What is that? Who does that?

Yet here I am, today, with tears welling up as I consider the thought of not being able to be comforted by her in the future. Im an adult. She barely ever comforted me as a kid. And never if I showed unhappiness towards her when she instead flew into rages. Why cant I get past this? Does it ever get easier?

[Tried2bZen]

Yes, BrightMoon - over time it will get easier. Ups and downs but overall easier. Kris Godinez (a licensed counselor) has a great YouTube channel (We Need To Talk) where she addresses "complicated grief" as a reaction to going no-contact with an abuser. 

[TwentyTwenty]

One common answer why parents can't apologize is that they are convinced that you are a liar. And of course, you are their child and they are right, and you are wrong just like when you were 5 years old, so they are just punishing you until you do as you're told like you should, since that is their right as your parent. If they could spank you or thrash you with a belt to get you to behave again, they would do it; but they've figured out if they do it they'll likely go to jail.

Never ever forgot, they are right, you are wrong.. no matter what.

[Blueberry Pancakes]

None of what you deal with when you have a PD parent(s) is easy. I am so sorry. Yes, it would be so much easier if they would just apologize, but I also believe they need to follow it up by showing a change in behavior where the offending actions stop and are replaced by behaviors that show they have mutual regard.  I feel like that is what would ultimately lead to reconciliation. That however seems to be the kicker. If they ever do utter an "I'm sorry", it is followed with a lame excuse of why we need to tolerate them. Without the follow up behaviors, I remain VVVVVLC without any tug of question. Upon recognizing their limitations you ask whether we are supposed to remain estranged forever, and I think that is a great question. I wish I could answer it, but I believe we best find our way via trial and error and checking in with ourselves and assessing what feels right vs. what gives us grief and adjusting our approach. Whatever you decide to do for your own well being is alright.

[M0009803]

I struggled with this issue as well.

The reality is that if you have landed in this forum, it is likely that you have been enduring abusive actions from your PD parent (s) for decades. 

Once that behavior becomes normalised (by them and the entire family unit), it is very unlikely to change because you are essentially arguing against what the family considers "normal".

Even in my case, when my parent did a BBB episode during my wedding, this was excused by other FOO members because "that is just the way she is", so we all just have to deal with it.  This all cycles back to her dysfunctional behavior being enabled and normalised for decades.

I would say you might have a chance of getting an apology if their dysfunctional behavior is more recent.  There, the possibility of them modifying their behaviors is greater.

[lotusblume]

Thank you all so much for your replies.

I haven't got an answer back. It's been 2 and a half years of NC with intermittent confrontations and explanations. I keep holding onto that childhood hope. I am falling into the fog since I broke NC.

[D.]

It can all be so painful.  Perhaps the silence brings clarity? My own is parents act like they want to listen... then ignore too...

I hope that you are able to provide yourself with self care and especially self compassion.  You are clearly doing your best.  And it's only human to go back to that childhood hope.  I suspect looking forward to being a mother yourself impacts too. 

I am new but please remember you have support and understanding here.

[DistanceNotDefense]

Thank you all so much for your replies.

I haven't got an answer back. It's been 2 and a half years of NC with intermittent confrontations and explanations. I keep holding onto that childhood hope. I am falling into the fog since I broke NC.

I agree with C. lotusblume. No need to be so hard on yourself. it's only natural to want our families back....take care of you and your baby first. You two are the most important things right now. The family stuff can come later. Anything they do that is not supportive of you during such a critical time for you and your child is something you don't need and have the full right to ignore! I doubt if they answer it will be anything good.

[Stardust1982]

In the book 'Stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist' it says that a PD person can have explosive emotional reactions where they actually abuse the other person but don't actually understand how this behavior was bad or hurtful. That's because these people cannot cope with their internal self-hate so they project it onto others constantly. If they project their self-hate, it means they think the others around them are the bad guys, the guys who hurt them and betray them and they-the victims who are in need of help, kindness, and compassion. They use 'splitting' and 'projection' to make sense of the world and cope in it the way they can. Thus, they cannot apologize since they haven't done anything wrong to you, and they probably never think they're doing something wrong.
It's infuriating, isn't it?

[blues_cruise]

But my problem is, I still want them to change. It's wrong, I know. I want them to at least try. If I accept things the way they are, I can't talk to them. It's too triggering. They may be cool for a bit, but things will go exactly back. That's my prediction anyways.

This is the dilemma and subsequent sadness that I have. I keep the door ajar just slightly in the hope that uNF might miraculously 'get it' and make a genuine gesture, but it never comes. I just had a birthday too and asked my husband to check the post as I was just so anxious and hypervigilant about what might arrive. If something had arrived from my father then I asked H to read it and let me know whether there was anything I might need to know, plus to pass it on to me if there was an apology or any kind of acknowledgement from uNF that his behaviour had been wrong. H's response to this was, "Yeah, I'll keep an eye out for pigs flying too."  Needless to say, H didn't mention anything having arrived, so if something was sent then it would have been yet another generic card expecting to sweep everything under the rug. Last year I received a note from my father saying "I miss you" and reiterating his contact details, but that could so easily have been him being emotionally manipulative (and most likely was). His "I miss you" basically translated as "Here's some affection to make you feel guilty".

I'm in the same scenario as you, it's far too triggering to be in contact. My nervous system doesn't cope well with it and I get painful physical symptoms. I think we have to try to give ourselves a bit of a break in that regard, because being triggered by the contact is a natural result of experiencing years of dysfunction. No contact is never about teaching them a lesson or anything petty like that; it really is a last resort.

Does it mean you should stay estranged forever?

This is something I often wonder. I flat out refuse to be in contact right now because I'm only living a few miles away from my father and I think we would soon slip back into the old status quo. With some distance and further healing and work on boundaries/assertiveness I hope to one day be able to exchange a Christmas card or to see him at weddings or funerals if and when they come up. I don't think I'd ever put myself directly back in the firing line of one on one contact though. He might be ok for a while but when that wears off he will be hell bent on revenge for my silence on days when something triggers him. No way am I putting myself through that.

In the book 'Stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist' it says that a PD person can have explosive emotional reactions where they actually abuse the other person but don't actually understand how this behavior was bad or hurtful. That's because these people cannot cope with their internal self-hate so they project it onto others constantly. If they project their self-hate, it means they think the others around them are the bad guys, the guys who hurt them and betray them and they-the victims who are in need of help, kindness, and compassion. They use 'splitting' and 'projection' to make sense of the world and cope in it the way they can. Thus, they cannot apologize since they haven't done anything wrong to you, and they probably never think they're doing something wrong.
It's infuriating, isn't it?

And the thing is, from the point of view of anyone capable of empathy what they're doing is actually very sad. You can fall into the trap of feeling sorry for them and making allowances for their behaviour, but when you do this it's always going to be at the expense of your own mental wellbeing because they put it on you to cope entirely alone with all their emotional baggage. It's unfair. 

[BettyGray]

We are rational, thoughtful, sensitive people who have been raised by irrational, thoughtless, insensitive people. They see these qualities in us as weaknessness.

They use our empathy to manipulate us and we don't even know it's happening because we are just trying to be nice people. We want to help others. They want to cause chaos and watch the show. 

We grow up thinking we are among rational, loving and caring families. We are told "I love you" but it feels like a warped sense of love.

We try to be trustworthy and have integrity. We think we can trust our parents/families. It sinks in one day that not only can we not trust them, but that they are actively working to hurt us. It's unthinkable. Children's minds cannot process this kind of disconnect, so we keep believing when they say "I love you." But then they repeat actions of neglect, disdain & disrespect, verbal/psychological/physical abuse.

It makes no sense to us. But we continue to believe if we could just explain what is so glaringly obvious and be heard things might change. We keep thinking we are dealing with people like ourselves. They are very much not like us.

This is the wake up call that probably leads to NC for a lot of us. That moment when we realize we may as well be speaking to a seagull or a horse, expecting them to understand. And we get angry when they do not. But it's unrealistic and in a way, delusional on our part to expect to be heard.

Not that it's our fault. We didn't choose this. But it's normal to want to believe that other people share our realities. And it's normal to think our parents might - you know - actually show an interest in our well-being. It's normal to expect an "I love you" should be followed up with loving actions & selfless deeds.

THEY are not normal. Our upbringings were so far from normal. Until we get some space to find ourselves away from them, spend time with other families and see how they operate & support  one another, we have a narrow view of the definition of family.

I used to laugh watching the tv shows where the parents screwed something up or made a big mistake, or did something insensitive but they ALWAYS without fail, apologize in the end. Real apologies. They acknowledge their actions as wrong, why it was bad behavior and admit they hurt you. They ask forgiveness. Everyone hugs, promises to do better and they move on. Sorry I have never met a parent who apologized for bad behavior. Never. No matter how egregious.

So....they don't say sorry because no one has ever required them to. No one has held them truly accountable for their misdeeds, so they continue. 'Why fix something that isnt broken? is their mantra.

But everyone else needs fixing, whooo boy!

Perhaps the most distressing about their inability to apologize is that it revelals they really do not care about our pain. We could be pouring out our souls, sobbing, feeling hopeless and showing incredible despair. How could they just ignore such obvious, raw pain?  Apologize for it? Dream on!

Our deep pain from having our emotions, sense of self, our worth, our voices, our beliefs mocked, derided, ignored, and vilified by these unfeeling people who love (?) us means absolutely nothing to them. It's heartbreaking.

There will come a time when you will make peace with all of this. When you are ready, you will reach the acceptance stage of their refusal to change. It will be sad, yes, but it's also inevitable if we want to continue to function and build a healthy, safe life for ourselves. Some part of you will always want that apology, because quite frankly, you deserve it. But it won't come.

It doesn't feel much better to be told the reasons why they take no responsibility for the pain they cause. It can feel like they almost get a pass because they have a disorder that makes them jerks. Essentially  we are still powerless and so feel a sense of gross injustice.

[MyEyesROpen]

I've tried explaining in very simple terms exactly what they've done wrong and how badly they've hurt me and all I was ever met with was silence. I could see the cogs in their head turning as they tried to come up with another reason why I was bad and they had been wronged by me. If I shot this down as well, I was met with silence again. Wash, rinse, repeat. Apologies were apparently for losers and they considered themselves winners. After such an exchange, and getting nowhere, they would come back to me in a rage with hurtful lies. When reason and facts were inconveniently against them, they just made up events for how they'd been wronged by me. You can't reason with that level of delusion. Narcs never apologise.

[Morocha2015]

Happy birthday! I'm a November baby, too, and it sounds like we have a similar story! I also always get the dreaded birthday card of guilt. This year HPDm wrote that she's been seeing a DBT therapist every week since July. According to her, the therapist told her she's not at all mentally ill. Then she demanded I start speaking to her again.

This is the second time she's sworn a mental health professional has told her there's nothing wrong with her. That just can't be right. I can't imagine a therapist saying that to anyone. We all have baggage and trauma. And why does she need weekly sessions if she's fine?

I was struck by the same thing you were. There was no apology or admission of wrongdoing. It was "you told me to get therapy and I did, so you need to talk to me again." No way. I'm not coming back into a relationship where everything is my fault and I deserve to be abused. I'm still working on learning how to love and be kind to myself. If my own mother can't do that for me, why would I let her in?

I'm still so surprised by how much everyone's stories here sound like my own. I'm grateful we're in this together. 

[Fortuna]

But my problem is, I still want them to change. It's wrong, I know. I want them to at least try. If I accept things the way they are, I can't talk to them.

Because as victims of abuse we want the abuse to stop. We want the love back. The problem is that the love wasn't real. It was love bombing, It was an act of making you feel SO good so you'd keep the relationship after it goes sour, and then just as you assert your boundaries, they do it again, hoping to draw you in. And it plays to the simple fact that we want them to love us for real and so we see this as a possible step in the right direction, only to be blindsided later.

I'm closing in on a year of NC and there is still part of me that WANTS to believe that once my mom loved me, really truly loved me and that one day we could go back to that. Toward the end I kept giving her chance after chance after chance to show me she was willing to be a decent human being. The only time she acted like it was after she "won" and got to come for the holidays for longer than I told her was appropriate. She was so happy it was like she was floating on air. She, the absolute Grinch of all that is tipping, tipped the museum curators, she complimented my sewing telling me I could do it professionally. (If she was in a bad mood, the same outfit would have been found lacking.) It felt like a pod person had taken her over. Had I been willing to believe it was a real step and not her high on narc supply, I might have not noticed she moved so her criticism started going to my youngest (my oldest has been her golden child), scolding her when it was not needed, telling her that the world 'didn't revolve around her' after she stated a simple preference. If I had not already make the decision to go NC I might have been fooled.

The trick to not getting fooled is to not just stop responding, but to stop reading/listening/showing up. Block them on everything. Either throw out the letters or keep them unopened in a file for the police if they cross a line, don't open the door, leave the party and so on. It's not easy. In one way I want to know what was in the letter she sent, but I also know it doesn't matter what's in it, because I can not trust anything she says, so all it is are a bunch of vowels and consonants. Even if the spelled 'I'm sorry.' it wouldn't mean anything.

[lotusblume]

My gosh. It isn't easy, is it?
It's like the exact opposite outcome I desire in every situation with each person.

I thought with my one parent, if I explained to them months ago that how they had acted was wrong and that I was no longer expecting an apology, that this would trigger an apology.

Instead, I got months of silence, and then a love-bombing Hoover.

I thought with the other parent, that if I just explained the problem in detail, told them how it made me feel, that they would on this occasion find the capacity prioritize it over their own feelings. Instead, they pretended none of it happened, and used the events of this year to try to press the reset button.

I figured if I told them exactly what the issues were after almost two years of more or less limited/no contact, that they would be willing to address those issues. Instead, they get more desperate to drag me back into things as they were before.

I figured with my grandmother, if I accepted her narcissism and emotional vampirism, I could still have civil conversation with her about other things besides family drama. Instead, I've been coldly ignored and cast out of the family because I'm no longer acting like an infantilized child with her.

And I thought that if they heard through the grapevine that I was pregnant, that this would be enough reason for them to get their act together slightly enough to ... change. Find some emotional maturity, work with me a little. I figured, if I inched open the door again and gave them the solutions necessary to do their part in the relationship repair, that it would be essential that they at least try.

But no. Crickets, silence again. And I'm back where I was two years ago, in some ways, repetition compulsion, trying to explain the issues, getting completely ignored, and the same guilt strings are being pulled with their silence.

I am a lot stronger now, thankfully, but I know I haven't accepted it. I haven't accepted that they are so emotionally immature that they cannot take the steps necessary to repair things now more than ever.

And I'm on the merry go round in my emotions again. It feels like two extremes, resist or capitulate. How do you get to somewhere in between? Accepting things the way they are?
 

[Boat Babe]

Hi Lotusbloom. You ask a very good question. How to accept things as they are? I wish there was a quick and easy way to do this as it would save us all a lot of wasted time and grief.

I am now 63 and have totally given up on expecting uBPDm to behave in a mature and healthy way. This took most of my adult life unfortunately. I knew intellectually that this was the way forward but emotionally it just didn't happen. I think that if I had been able to address this specific issue in Therapy, I might have gotten there earlier, saving myself years of frustration and disregulation of my own emotions.

Inner child work is probably the key for you. Your adult self knows the score but your wounded inner child is still hurting, badly, thus your internal struggle to finally let go of toxic FOO.  From what people here have said, the relief and release of letting go of that damaging (to you) hope for enlightenment on the part of you FOO is a very good outcome and you may have to take a leap of faith on that one. After all, you have nothing to lose.

Sending hugs Lotusbloom.

[DistanceNotDefense]

How do you get to somewhere in between? Accepting things the way they are?

First of all, hugs, lotusblume, if you want one This is rough, running into that wall of silence with family.

As for acceptance I totally relate. I've made my decision to *not* engage with family at all (NC my personal choice, not necessarily the right one for everyone), but I have by far definitely *not* fully accepted that their failed responses define who they are. I, like you, am dealing with covert N-type FOO that prefer the Silent Treatment hoping I will be the one to break (or they're not hoping anything, they're just blissfully ignorant and don't think about me).

Part of me has accepted they are this way, but part of me has not. I'm NC in every way except I haven't blocked their texts or emails, to see if by any chance they may actually get back to me in a relational way (even if it's something like "I really don't know what I did wrong but I don't want to lose you.") If they choose to address the problem, I will respond (they haven't). If they continue to rug sweep and hoover, I just don't respond, I know they just want more easy supply but those days are over.

I've really had to strongarm myself down this path. My close friend (who had to go NC with her own FOO for a while) said that it is like being an alcoholic or a drug addict. You will always long for their interaction, but that part of you doesn't account for the fact that it will leave you unsatisfied and stuck afterward, just like with substances. You just know you can't cave in. Staying away from unhealthy FOO is a cold, hard choice that is never without cravings and temptation, it's just part of the deal.