I don't even know where to start (part 1)

[Whiteheron]

It's been a rough few post-divorce years. I haven't been on this site as much as I should be. I guess I've been trying to convince myself that it's all fine, everything is juuuuust fine...but it's not.

Highlights from this past year:
-DS17 goes off to the local college xH has chosen for him
-xH is working overtime to isolate me from DS
-xH secretly married his gf, told everyone after the fact (kids were shocked)
-xH is trying very hard to recruit a specific flying monkey at the school to...idk what his end goal is here

The two things that really get under my skin are xH's continued attempts to isolate me from DS and the flying monkey (part 2).

DS had planned to go to college about 2-3 hours away. Somehow, after a weekend with his dad, he completely changed his mind and secretly applied, with his dad's help, Early Decision (a binding agreement upon acceptance) to a college 20 mins away. The course of study DS chose was not anything he had shown an interest in prior to this. In the meantime, xH is screaming to the courts about how I lack basic co-parenting skills (the divorce has been final since summer 2020). 

DS goes to college and I'm completely left out of the picture. One parent is allowed on campus to drop DS off at his dorm. Of course, it's xH. I'm heartbroken. I find I've not been put on the Emergency Contact list, on the email list, not even listed as a parent. Completely left out of the entire process. I'm shattered.

Since DS has started college, I barely see him. I assumed and expected that he was on campus doing college things. Nope. He's been at xH's. Every weekend, including on my custody time (since he's not quite 18 yet). I hadn't really said anything to DS about this until yesterday. I don't want to put any unnecessary pressure on him, and I was letting the custody agreement slide, since he's in college now.

DS has contracted a major case of fleas from his dad and it's made me feel hopeless, helpless. Like I've failed. DS is furious at DD, who knows why. The words and phrases coming out of his mouth are just like what xH used to say to me. DS decided last minute to spend part of the day with me yesterday, so we had a chance to talk. He was threatening to disown his sister for a perceived slight (sound familiar??). At one point I told him this didn't sound like the DS I knew, to which he had no response - just the same old "well, she did xyz!"

I believe I talked some sense into him. Who knows. I tried. I also asked him why he doesn't come visit often. His reply "I haven't figured out how to say no to dad yet." It seems every time DS plans to visit me, his dad asks him to do something and DS can't say no. So DS sneaks away to come see me when he has a break in classes or is out running errands. It really shouldn't be like this. DS is worried his dad will stop paying tuition and will take away the fancy car and credit card. A few weeks ago, I pulled DS aside and told him I would cover tuition if needed, and that I would get him a car, but it wouldn't be an expensive one. (DS was not impressed). I know I need to let DS figure this out on his own, and that he needs to make his own decisions. I just feel like I'm losing him and it breaks my heart.

I'll continue with the flying monkey in part 2. This is long enough. Thanks for reading

[Penny Lane]

Hi! Nice to see you back here but ... not nice that you're dealing with all this. I'm sorry! It can be scary to really sit down and acknowledge, things aren't OK. I am trying to be OK, but things are not.

It is very scary to watch your son be isolated like that. He is trying to exercise his independence and doing the worst thing possible, a thing that could have a lot of real consequences for his life.

I don't want to minimize it but I do want to say I see some reasons for hope. He is still sneaking off to see you. You are a good mom, you are assertively trying to teach him life lessons while also giving him space. Don't discount the importance of that. And it seems that your DS is sticking around his dad largely because of monetary gifts that have huge strings attached. In short, this is not who your son is, this is a role he is playing right now. And hopefully when the strings that your ex attached become too great - your son will be able to come back to himself.

I know this is a lot of conjecture. I don't really know. It could stay this bad forever and I know it's hard to not dwell on that possibility.

Sometimes when I'm feeling hopeless/helpless it helps me to think, what can I control here? So, what's under your control? You can keep your home a stable loving place for your son. You can continue to lovingly point out his bad behavior, and hold him accountable for his actions. You can continue to give him an alternative (you will pay for his college). You can focus on supporting your daughter. You can take good care of yourself, doing whatever fills your cup. I think the most important one is to tell and show him how to say no to dad. It won't click immediately but messages like "you are allowed to say no" and "your integrity is more important than a fancy car" are the kinds of things that will sink in long-term.

I'm sorry that these aren't going to solve the problem. They might help you get through it. These things come in cycles and I know it's easy to see this as your son getting on a bad path, but it's just as likely that this will be a brief cycle and it will end soon.

[Whiteheron]

Thanks again, Penny!

I work hard to keep my home a loving and stable environment. I know that DS is aware of this. He knows I will be here for him no matter what and that my acceptance and love for him is unconditional. I think that's part of why he's so willing to do his dad's bidding. He knows that I will be hurt/upset, but that I won't love him any less. The only consequence is that he has to listen to my "advice" now and again 
The consequences of going against his PD dad are severe.

I am trying to give DS space. He needs to grow and come into his own. I know his dad is incapable of allowing DS to grow into his own person, so I try to be aware and give him what he needs. I try to be supportive without being controlling.

I work the same with DD. I try to give her the space to explore, grow, and learn new things in a judgement-free environment. I do mess up now and again, but I am trying. Some things have come out about her dad/stepmom that she didn't want me to know about because she doesn't want to make me upset. She also told me she's trying really hard to be an "easy teenager." I told her she can tell me what she feels comfortable with and that teenagers aren't supposed to be easy. I tell her that I will love her no matter what kind of teen she is. I don't know what else I can do.

I am aware that once DS breaks free from his dad, xH will start to work on DD. I'm not sure what I can do to prevent this from happening. I almost hope he and his new wife decide to have kids of their own. Not sure if that would help or hurt the situation.

[Free2Bme]

Hi WH,

As a mom I can appreciate how difficult this is as I have been through it for the last 4 years, different circumstances but the same dynamics that you are describing between updxh and DS (now 19). 

My DS moved 6 hours away to live with updxh (under coercion/brainwashing/manipulation/custody battle).  We had sporadic contact and occasional visits home that sometimes erupted into angry venting towards me.  For a long time it seemed the parental alienation was winning and that I would end up estranged from him.  It was more than I could bear, I felt hopeless and it all seemed very unfair after all we had been through.

After graduation he went down a path of risk taking, drugs, altercations, law breaking, etc.  It was terrible to watch, there was nothing I could do but stay in touch, encourage, pray, and continue to be there for him.  I was ghosted 80% of the time, texts and calls were not responded to. 

Fast forward, visits became easier, no more angry episodes.  Now he occasionally initiates contact and he has started coming home more often to visit me and sisters, usually without warning he shows up and doesn't stay long.  Last week, he came with gifts and was very loving.   Every visit he makes comments about how dad will be mad if he visits home, and would become very stressed out anticipating his dads reaction. 

It is good that your DS is going away to college, it will create space between him and dad.  Develop a back up plan incase jumping through dads hoops becomes to much for DS, so he knows he has options other than dad.

Keep doing what you are doing, be there for him, reach out and make periodic contact with no strings attached.  You can give him what dad can't, the unconditional love that all children need.   Develop a back-up plan for DS so that if jumping through dad's hoops gets to be too much, he knows he has an alternative.

[Lauren17]

It sounds like you have a lot going on.
I've had a very similar situation with stbxh (uNPD) and DD.
It turns out that stbxh had refused to pay for the college she selected and coerced her into his college of choice. This happened while we were still married and I was being pleased he we actually helping with parenting.
I, too, heard the phrase. "Can't say no to Dad"
I'm furious with him.
But, I'm focusing on DD and the aspects of the situation I can control. We've been talking about adults being responsible for their own emotions. (i.e. who cares if Dad gets angry)  We've been talking about adults making the best decisions for themselves and then acting on them. 
It sounds like you're doing all the right things. But it's hard.

[rockandhardplace]

This is an old topic so I don't know if OP will see, but this is literally exactly what keeps me stuck in the most horrible dysfunctional living situation. UNPDh I'm sure or some other PD, emotionally and verbally abusive. As the fog started to lift I started to recognise that my difficulties with DD1 was due to him elevating her to same level as him on family hierarchy - well not same as him obviously, but higher than her mum. She would fight with me over every little thing, accuse me of hating her and loving her brother and then sister more, but rejected every attempt I made to connect with her and I mean telling me to shut up at age 7 when I'd ask how school went. She would call me names, mock me etc. And I used to try and talk to him because after DS was born they became really close. I actually encouraged their relationship. He would always find someway to make it seem like it was my fault that she was so rude to me. Took me years to realise she was copying how he spoke to me. How could anyone be so brainwashed?? He is so controlling that I'm sure he would expect me to literally disappear from their lives if I want to escape. I'm trying to gently rebuild my relationship with DD1, but she's 16 now and there's been so much damage. And she's only open to me an inch because now DS (13) is GC. Our youngest is only 8 and really bonded to me, but so were the other 2. But even if I held out for another 10 years it doesn't end when they are adults, people like this will lie and manipulate at any age and I can feel the pressure they would get to reject me, how hard it would be to resist his demands. I feel like the choice is take a chance now and if he alienates hope they will come back eventually but how damaged will they be by then? Or wait and keep them safe as children but grow up in this insane dysfunction thinking this is how people live and then they will repeat with their own families and then he'll either alienate them then or they'll blame me for not leaving and lose them anyways??

[Breadroll]

Rockandahardplace - you articulated pretty much where I was a few years ago. I got out, and the fall out was hard. But on balance still better. At the moment it's a major campaign of estrangement on younger kid, using money etc. It's doubly hard as burrowing into my foo. Am heartbroken, just trying to find my own peace.
There is no right answer - as your name says-wishing you strength and a calm space to make decisions.  If you do decide to go, plan carefully. Mine was planned, but if I could go back I would double down on that, wish I had been tougher.