Financial Gaslighting

[Whatthehey]

I had a long talk with my lawyer today.  He couldn't read my stbxOCPDh handwriting and asked me to help.  After all this time I could read and probably copy it.  We worked through all the numbers and I realized that what my h had told me the past 33 years does not match what is on paper.  I am shocked and angered.

For all of my adult life I have scrimped and saved.   Some weeks living hand to mouth judging what bill we could float.  I rarely purchased new clothes and shop at thrift stores.  I have become very good at picking out quality designer labels for pennies.  At one point, I shopped at a Goodwill where I bought clothes by the pound.  My daughters rarely had anything new and were often teased by it.  Their self image has been harmed and they struggle to this day.  No vacations - or rare vacations where I would look for months trying to find the perfect beach house within the 'budget.'

I pleaded with him to put together a budget.  I wanted to be able to have some control of the finances but he would just say this is what we need to do - he is an auditor so I relied on him to handle the finances.  He has a better memory for numbers.

My kids say I am a McGyver in the kitchen.  I can whip up a great meal based on the leftovers in the fridge.  He did all the grocery shopping.  I can stretch a 25cent box of macaroni for days.  I wore underwear with holes and shoes that were held together with duct tape.  I would wait for months between hair cuts to stretch it out.  I have never had matching plates, silverware or cups.  All of our cups were kids cups from fast food.

My daughter almost passed up on a fellowship to a masters program because I believed we were close to bankruptcy.

They didn't have to live like that.  I didn't have to live like that.  The sheets my bed had holes because I was told we couldn't afford new sheets.  I doubled up my socks  and blankets because the heat was kept low and it was cold.  The blanket was thin but it was all we could afford.  I truly felt we were close to homeless some years.

Now there is money.  Goodness, how did that happen?  Where did it all come from?  Why would he do this to his kids? 

I almost passed on chemotherapy (which saved my life the first time) because of concerns of cost.  I truly thought it was the end because we couldn't afford the medical treatment. 

I am really angry.  I called my sis and she even suggested that he could be hoarding more that wasn't found in discovery.  Crap on a cracker!

Somehow I will learn to carry the guilt and anger.  And I know that I will ok - frugal to make it stretch - but OK for these last few years. 

I picture myself like that ear bud commercial where the guy is walking and listening to music but his shadow is dancing.  I am instead walking and my shadow is having a full on tantrum.

Advice to everyone - watch the mail.  Make a spreadsheet of all the statements that come through.  Look in your computer history and see where the activity is in the accounts - check to see if you are aware of all the activity.  Make copies and hide them.  Become financially savvy and start reading so you can understand the statements and how to budget and plan.  Know what you have.

Even if I had been more aware I would've done anything to avoid those circular arguments.  I was proactive in saying no - and he would swoop in and say yes.  Hindsight is 20/20 and this rearview is awful

[notrightinthehead]

Sounds like you were financially abused in your marriage. No wonder you are so angry! I love the image of your shadow having a tantrum. When I had bouts of intense anger, I took my dog for very long, brisk walks and when nobody was near by, I even voiced my anger out loud. Still woke up many mornings with my jaw sore from all that clenching and grinding I did during the night. For some people it seems to help to write their anger on paper and burn it.

[Phoenix Rising]

My exNPD was financially abusive too. Only knew what I experienced (taking away cards, denying basic needs), but like you, I did not know that he was taking money away from the household or that he had made a lot more at his job than he led on. This was uncovered when a lawyer was trying to calculate his child support obligation. No statements ever came to the house but he had a third bank account for many years that was used regularly. I can understand your anger, especially everything that you and your children have gone through. You are so strong and it is very clear that you love your children dearly!

One technique for releasing anger that has worked for me was writing a letter but not actually sending it. I wrote it, never re-read it, just ripped it up. Not sure if it will help but I thought I'd share.

[11JB68]

My h is uOCPD.
I believe he hoards money. Terrified to spend it. Thinks he's a financial genius. I wasn'tt kept in the dark, but he has made all the budgeting and spending decisions. I make more money but I'm on an allowance set by him. ..I'm so sorry for what you're experiencing, I would be angry too.

[pushit]

I was also financially controlled.  Ironically, I handled the finances but like an adult I wanted to discuss big things.  Of course those discussions never went anywhere.

If I wanted something, I'd discuss it with her and guess what the answer always was?     If she wanted something, I'd find about it after it was already happening or when I went to pay bills and there wasn't enough in our checking account.  Then I'd get chastised for taking money out of savings to cover bills.  Typical PD behavior, she created the problem and then it was my fault.  Round and round we went!   

Our finances ended up being a mess.  Couldn't agree on joint investments, a budget, anything.  Our investments just sat in very low return accounts because she would never agree to anything.  I'm mostly done with her now (divorce to be final in a few weeks).  My to-do list now includes getting my investments set up the way I want them.  It is liberating to be able to start making my own decisions and move forward. 

My h is uOCPD.
I believe he hoards money. Terrified to spend it. Thinks he's a financial genius. I wasn'tt kept in the dark, but he has made all the budgeting and spending decisions. I make more money but I'm on an allowance set by him. ..I'm so sorry for what you're experiencing, I would be angry too.

Very similar behavior by my stbxPDw.  She is good at saving (thankfully her spending was never too out of control), but she is terrified of investments and would probably stuff cash under the mattress instead of investing it.

[Whatthehey]

I deserve an Oscar for my performance tonight.

We are babysitting my granddaughter this week.  So far so good.  While doing the babysitting, I am recovering from the pneumonia, still haven't heard from my oncologist and I uncovered all the financial gaslighting.

This morning he calls at 6am.  What is up with this joint checking account?  I can't do the finance stuff your lawyer wants if you keep using this account.  How much was in there originally?  Don't you have your own money?

Sigh, I used the account while for my debit and credit cards.  I remembered the grey rock and instantly put in my calm and bland voice.  I will look into it and thank you for brining it to my attention -- may I please go back to sleep.

So I looked at the account and found that all I needed to do was transfer $13 to make it right with the amount from the day I left. 

He then asks what do we do about the remaining joint expenses.  We help our daughter (and grand daughter) while she continues with grad school.  Who should pay for her stuff?  And our son -- who pays for him?  You right since you disability?  And you want alimony so I don't think there will be any money left for me -- I may just be homeless.   


All I could think was, grey rock grey rock grey rock.   

I like the idea of writing a letter -- to him, my old self, my parents and my kids.  I am considering gathering a few close girlfriends and perhaps having a burning ceremony.  Good bye to my old self and hello to the new.  Not a divorce party or a divorce ceremony.  But a real closing of the past 54 years.  It might be a good way for me to release the anger.

Thank you all for your support and suggestions!  You are keeping me sane!

[1footouttadefog]

I have recently found my spouse has become incompetent in handling our finances and assets.  Has has done things that are very counter to who he has been all his life. 

To hide it and postpone me discovering it he has been dishonest, deceitful and fraudulent.   He has resorted to gaslighting and many other things to get the heat off of himself and to make it seem like my fault or that I have misunderstood something. 

I had a funeral fire for my marriage and the years I had wasted while in the fog.  I gathered symbolic items some subtle and some not so subtle and watched them burn in the bbq.

[Whatthehey]

Thank you for all of your support and understanding.  I went back this morning and reread my posts because I am spinning.  Spinning, swirling and about to collapse.  Yesterday I was late for an appt by half hour - I messed up carpool.  My head is a whirl and I only realized just now while watching the coffee percolate why.

In some ways I was JADE with the financial gaslighting.  Despite all the anger, there was a part of me justifying it.  Maybe he was saving for our future; now after the divorce there will be some money, etc.  But the reality is far different.

At the beginning of the week I met with my lawyer to review paperwork.  My state is 50/50 on all assets.  No if, and or buts.  Thank God!  He requested I create a spreadsheet of all assets I could access using his (my lawyers) layout.  So I started inserting info - using my husbands forms as well as my lawyers - and it hit me.  Any account solely in my husband's name, he listed as 100% his ownership - it totaled to more than a million. 

We came into this marriage with nothing - carrying student debt but no assets.  All the wealth was developed while married.  Granted for the past 10 years I have been on disability but the reality is we have been living on a take home income less than the poverty level.  And I supported that - I stayed within those boundaries.  Damn! 

I could make excuses for the time before I left but not after - he wants to claim more than a million is his own!!!  Let that sink in.

Yes, it feels like a pity party - the poor girl now has money.  And that is true.  No excuse.

I am swirling because a small part was still hoping he could change.  Be the man I thought he was.  But reality is he doesn't really love me for me.  He may have a mental illness but he is an adult and I can no longer excuse this abuse.  And abuse it is.  I am in a duplex that is still being worked on.  With a bed and a chair.  He has the house and still hasn't allowed me to access it.  Our son wants to stay with me.  My husband is giving me receipts to reimburse him for the money he spent on our son while he took care of him - money I have to pay out of my SSDI.  And I foolishly agreed to the arrangement thinking we were close to bankruptcy at the time I left.

Thank you Lord for this state's laws.  I thought I was Out of the FOG before but it was still swirling around me.  Not now.  Now I am done.  Absolutely, completely, totally done.

[Hazy111]

I once read that narcissists "will always abuse their partners, because they can" . I didnt understand this,  as I saw abuse in simplistic terms. My father is i believe a narc, but i wasnt aware of any abuse of my mother growing up.

But now looking back and seeing things afresh as an adult, i know he abused her monetarily. He gave her a weekly allowance, and kept a ledger of all incomings and outgoings, down to the last penny. My father had a relatively well paid job and my mother  always worked. I think he had bank accounts she never knew about.

She liked you never spent anything on herself, but would always do right by us children , materially that is. But she would complain about not having enough money and there would be arguments. Part of the problem was, she was a hermit/waify BPD so she used to wallow in the martyrdom of it all and never assert herself.

Im glad you have come to the realisation of what is really happening.

[gfuertes]

I hope it's strangely comforting for you to know you're not alone in this.  It is, for me.

In separating from my NPD husband and gradually becoming so much more clear-headed, I have moments of feeling abjectly ashamed of things - particularly financial things - that I either never guessed about at the time; or that I tolerated because I felt stuck and trapped, and couldn't for the life of me figure out anything effective to do about them.  Or - since we had kids to raise, and lives; and since life with him was a revolving door of crises - sometimes it was easy to think, "I'll figure out this financial concern after this latest crisis is handled."  Often, financial issues made me wish I weren't married to him, but when you have kids - and you're Catholic - short of walking in on your husband in bed with someone else, or having him punch you, how do you point to one issue and say, "This one is worth breaking up my kids' family."

Now that I have, I look back and what he did - what I stayed with him through, or what I was ignorant of - is completely at odds with the way I've always seen myself.  Pretty humiliating.  But not as bad as if I were still with him now.

I'm glad for you, that you should be getting more financial support for your kids than you'd expected.  I know that doesn't make up for everything, but it's a good step on the path moving forward.  My situation is rather the opposite, where my husband allowed me to think he was putting all this money in savings (and "Yeah, yeah, I'll sit down and go over all of it with you right after this latest crisis is put to rest..."), and telling me we could afford whatever he wanted us to be able to afford, but in the end it turned out there was no money whatsoever, he'd emptied MY savings that he knew about, and all I had was what I'd somehow felt guilty about hiding from him.  Even starting over from ground zero financially, all alone, there's so much peace in just not sharing finances with him anymore!

[1footouttadefog]

I hope you do get to leave the marriage with half of it all.

Spent and invested wisely you will be able to have a peaceful life.  Imagine the best possible future with a much or as little as you end up with. 

Peace and calm can be the foundation of a great life.

[Whatthehey]

Thank you gfuertes for you commiseration.  I certainly the Catholic guilt.  Before I left I did a great deal of reading about divorce and the Catholic Church.  I am a cradle to grave Catholic that has not been there is a few years.  I found an article by a priest that said the Church does not expect you to stay in an abusive marriage.  It was rather mind blowing and if I can find it again I will post it.

Everyday I move forward and my finances are untangled from his I feel a greater peace and strength.

1footouttadefog - my lawyer is quite the bulldog and apparently in my state there isn't quarreling with the 50/50.  He can only keep anything that he brought into the marriage.  And since we both entered penniless - everything earned in the marriage is 50/50.  I have a plan for the years after my son graduates - I want to frugally travel full time.  Buy a used RV or something and just slowly move from one park to another.  After 33 years of turmoil, living with PTSD from childhood abuse and college rape - peace and calm is a siren call.

[Whatthehey]

Here is the link gfuertes - http://www.catholicsforfamilypeace.org/uploads/9/7/5/4/9754767/what_the_catholic_church_teaches_about_domestic_violence.pdf

I inferred that you have left your spouse.  If you have seen this, my apologies for the presumption.  If not, I hope it helps you find some peace.

[1footouttadefog]

There are many people who live in RVs and have great experiences.  I have a great Aunt who used to live in an RV and work small jobs at National parks.

My goal after my youngest is in college is to make a little RV park on some land I own with Alpine like mountain views and Creek access.  It will be for folks who want to come stay a while to explore the area around, and not for people who want entertainment and fancy amenities.  It will have a common building with washer/dryer, bathroom/showers and and a kitchen/meeting area under roof.  And an outdoor living room, Maybe some raised beds for gardening and such.  I would like to make it sustainable with solar power, recycling and organic maintenance practices and landscaping.

[Whatthehey]

1footouttadefog - your dream of an RV park sounds beautiful and peaceful.  When it happens, I will take my little RV there!

[1footouttadefog]

In my part of the country I see alof of people setting up what I call RV homesteads.  They look like part vacation location  part bug out or homestead location. 

They buy a small acre or two of land and put in an RV pad, and perhaps a septic system and an electric pole or small solar system.  The next year they put up a shed building like some folks convert to tiny homes or a large metal building with an over hand for the RV. 

They plant fruit trees and create a few raised bets etc.  Usually an outdoor living space with fire pit etc.  In a couple or few years they have a minimal cost homestead where they can stay with or with out the RV. Many have decks for the RV so they can step out onto a covered deck from the RV door. 

It's interesting because for a small fraction of home ownership they have almost all the comforts of home and can simply replace an or or have a mobile home or modular or another shed building of the chose to settle down. 

It's downsizing with flexibility and having fun built in
   

[Spygirl]

Whatthehey,

Very similar to my story as well. I was angry for a long time. I am managing to get some of that money. I cant even tell you all the money i spent remodeling the hs MYSELF so we didnt have leaking water lines. I sold jewelry to buy a 5 yr old fridge that was not kept closed with a bungee cord. I could go on....

Got get your share! Make him pay legal fees for stall tactics. Just the threat of that got my pd to knock it off.

[Whatthehey]

Spygirl,

Hahaha - I certainly know what fixing the house by yourself is like!  Our house was a dump that I kept together with duct tape.  Granted I didn't see my jewelry (yikes! ) that really sucks! 

He and I have been talking about using these next few years to work on ourselves and consider getting back together - if we are better.  But yesterday, after a week of not responding to texts and phone calls - and I needed access to get some records for the courts!  I finally showed up and pounded the door.  He does his puppy dog face and poor me - how do I pay you alimony and retire early in a few years with you!  At first I was devastated - I was so hurt that he would put the money (of course) before me - then he says his therapist agreed.  I just told him that was a speed bump question not a road block and it goes to show where his real desires lay - with his money.  Then today, it occurred I was manipulated again!  He is using this as a means to manipulate my emotions as our lawyers negotiate my alimony.  Shit!  I really am going to have cut off all ties with him.  I just don't think that way!  That manipulative bullshit is so not me.

So I am taking my share, and walking away.

[Spygirl]

Once again, yup yup.

I have no pity anymore. There was so much "poor me im going to work until im 70, i will lose my home". Its complete BS.

I am dealing with a little stall at the moment. My pdex is getting a pay out of his 401k to me. It has to go thru court to show it was done. I have to TEXT him next week and ask status. Its been coming up on 2 months shortly. I will have to sick a lawyer on him or call his company soon. That should light a fire. I used to think he was just disorganized and busy. Nope. He is disinterested in being accountable for anything. He was late everywhere and still does not pay any bills on time.

Except my alimony. If that makes me a mean witch, so be it

[Whatthehey]

Spygirl,  I am beginning to wonder if we married the same man.

I used to think he was just disorganized and busy. Nope. He is disinterested in being accountable for anything. He was late everywhere  (li

I used to joke that he was late for his birth and that made him late for the rest of his life.  He is never on time yet yells at us if are not ready on time or take too long get ready (like ready now - I stopped wearing makeup and cut my hair short so I could get ready in five min.).   It was annoying for the whole family but certainly made him feel important and put the light on him.  He is so busy that he just can't be anywhere on time.  I don't believe it now.  And I have no mercy for him.

That worries about the 401K.  Most of our money is in there.