Kid at risk: Draw a line in the sand or keep playing the game?

[Unicorn Cat]

I've been playing nice. My attorney told me that if I play nice, I'm more likely to get STBX uNPDh to agree to very limited visitation with our son, who he physically and emotionally abuses. I've no evidence of the physical abuse and I live in a state where, to quote my attorney, "You're allowed to scream and yell and man-handle your kids. Basically, you're allowed to be a $i##y parent." I told her of the abuse and she said in her experience that won't be enough to make a judge in this state keep the father from the child in any real way.

So I've been playing nice in hopes that I can appeal to STBX's true first love - his job and money - and show him how advantageous it would be for him to be required to see our child only rarely.

In the meantime, he's financially abusing me, holding all our joint savings in accounts I can't access, and claiming to have lost significant amounts of it in bad investments. I smell hidden assets - but I care much less about that than keeping my child safe from this person. My child doesn't want to see him at all.

I've told him I don't trust him with our child alone in private, so they've been spending a couple hours once a week in public together. But STBX says he does't believe our child is afraid of him because our child who is under 10 can't push against the NPD pressure and is super duper friendly and happy to see him to his face, and then tells me he wants to punch his dad and hates him when it's all over and we're alone. He's even telling his teachers and friends at school that he doesn't want to see his dad. He has yet to open up to his therapist but likely will soon.

Now, STBX is threatening court if I don't give him more access to our child. Of course, i don't need to tell you if you know a NPD human that he never calls his child, rarely asks to see him, and doesn't show up to school events. But he does expect me to tell him what's going on, make the connections between our child and him FOR him, and tell him about all school events. 

I'm beginning to think that if I don't just call his bluff and tell him "Fine, if you want an attorney and you want to go that route, do it."  But he will spend my part of our savings on said attorney because of course he's told me he's going to hire one that requires a $20k retainer. And when we get to a custody battle around visitation and parental approval for big stuff like healthcare and education, there's a good chance a judge will give him the standard stuff - meaning, overnights and joint decisions - and my traumatized child and I lose.

Do I keep playing nice in hopes that he will agree to the visitation I want and endure his abuse of me or do I just call his bluff and hope he doesn't actually want to spend his beloved money on an attorney in an attempt to spend a bonus day and night with his son?

Because here's the thing burning in my gut this morning: I do not want to let this person abuse me anymore. I do not want to let this person get away with this or show my child that any of this is okay by not telling the authorities - he keeps asking me why we can't just call the police. (My child doesn't know about the financial abuse and I've explained that we don't have any evidence of him being hurt. Those are horrible conversations.)

I want to stand up and tell the truth and stop pretending he's in any way a decent human being. It took me years to get to this clarity and finally see what was going on and what I was enduring and what was going on with my child when I wasn't home. I want to say it! But I feel like I'm gambling with my child's safety if I do. The STBX could take out his anger on him, as well as demanding more time.

I know you can't give me answers - every situation is unique - but if you could share your experience or thoughts, I would really appreciate a voice in the void I feel right now.

[Whatthehey]

What a horrible situation for you.  You must be scared and angry.  I don't the laws in your state but consider getting a second opinion.  Here, you can ask for court supervised visits.  But they are very much all about fathers getting visitation - even after drug or violent offences.

I know the money is difficult so here is a suggestion that I only offer because you mentioned physical abuse.  Pull out half or as money as you can now.  Go to a domestic violence shelter.  Move within their system and work with them to start over.  Somewhere else.  Away.  They have advisors who can help you.  Do it quietly and quickly.  Look at their website and follow their advice.

Be strong.  In the long run, isn't it better for each of you to be safe than to be hurt?

[Unicorn Cat]

Thanks, Whatthehey - my friend just suggested the second opinion idea yesterday. I think that's what I'll do.

We're safe now - we moved earlier this month and my STBX has no access to this place. So that's big progress for both me and my child.

And yes, our safety is number one. The money issue is only because I have not backup and I've heard stories of exes coming back a couple years later and fighting for increased custody. I need funds to defend us if that happens. But I'm willing to walk away with nothing if it comes to choosing between physical safety and financial security. I loathe this person for putting me in a position to have to choose.

[Penny Lane]

Hi UnicornCat,
You are in such a tough situation. Sending you lots of strength to get through this period of time - the divorce process seems to just drag on and on and with a PD it can seem unbearable. But there is light at the end of the tunnel, really! I'm really glad to hear that you're safe.

I don't have a yes or no answer for you, like you said there is no one right way to go and you know your ex and your state's court system better than we do. But I do have some observation and thoughts - from watching my husband go back to court with his PDxw and also from reading stories on this board - that might help you. These are in no particular order.

~ First of all, it IS going to be OK. Really. Your son is truly seeing his dad for who he is and that's huge. Not all kids have that insight - some end up growing up thinking that what their PD parent does is OK. If the unthinkable happens and a judge orders way too much unsupervised visitation, he will even be OK then. You would teach him the skills he needs to survive and work with him on a safety plan for how to get out if things at his dad's house get dangerous. You'd also work with him on the emotional tools he needs to survive until he can go NC with his dad. Keep that thought in mind in this process - no matter what the custody agreement says, you will still be able to help your son. It might just be in a different way. Of course I still think you should fight like hell to get the best visitation agreement you can.

~ You have something really valuable right now which is that in your relationship you are the default parent who is letting him have time with your son. As opposed to, you are equal coparents making decisions together. Back in the day it probably used to mostly be like this, but now dads are expected to be full partners in parenting even post divorce. But when the dad is a PD, this is a really great dynamic that will remove some of the headaches of coparenting. It's less of a legal thing and more of a balance of power thing within your relationship. Don't let him shift that dynamic between you. Conversely, it's probably that lack of control that he's balking at - can you write an agreement that makes it seem like he has more control while still maintaining that balance of power?

~ At some point the court will take what the kids want into consideration. Do you know at what age that might be in your state? There is a certain age where no one can really make a kid see their abusive parent. Like, at age 16 they can probably just drive away. And maybe even earlier they have a much greater degree of control over what they do. How long would you have to wait for the judge and others in the system to start actually listening to your son?

~ I think you should compare what level of access he wants vs what the state is likely to order. And also, is he willing to sign the paperwork now to settle, or is he just jerking you around? It's a very rare, extreme case where a parent gets no overnights at all. So if he's willing to, say, see your son a couple hours on the weekend and then for dinner one night a week, no overnights - that might be more than you want, but I would jump on it. Same with if he just wants more time during the day on weekends. But if he's demanding an increase from a couple hours a week all the way to 50/50 with overnights, yeah that's a nonstarter.

~ Can you make some agreements on smaller things and put those into writing? That way when you go to make the final agreement there is less to discuss.

~ Do you think he will even exercise his visitation that he's awarded? We see over and over on these boards that the PD parent (especially dads) will fight fight fight for more custody and then pretty much as soon as the case is over they just drop it. Basically only see the kids as a means to control their ex. That's a tough thing to gamble on, though. Another thing we see a lot is that the other parent's behavior gets a LOT worse once the case is over because they feel like they don't have to be on their best behavior.

~ Can you somehow convince him that things are more equal than they are in your proposed settlement? For example I've read that difficult coparents are much less likely to go for the other parent having sole custody vs. joint custody but in the event of a disagreement the other parent make the final decision. In reality these two are basically the same thing. But in one case the PD gets to retain "joint custody" status on paper and that's a big deal to them. Or can you somehow act like you are making a huge concession and you're really resistant to changes that you're pretty much fine with?

~ If you do decide to draw a line in the sand and really push for court here is what I would do: File for full decision making, full time parenting and lots of child support/alimony. Way more than you'd be awarded. Then offer to settle for all the parenting stuff you want and somewhat less money. Send over a document that he can sign to that effect. Insist that's the only thing you will accept. Stay consistent. Then when you have to go to mediation or have one of your last settlement meetings or something - come down a little bit on the parenting ask and a lot more on they money. He might make that agreement. Basically tie him getting more money to you getting more custody.

~ I think in order to settle you are probably going to have to give up SOMETHING. The question is, what can you live with? And can you convince him that you REALLY REALLY REALLY don't want to give up the thing that is actually palatable to you? PDs tend to not be very good at finding creative solutions. They will say "it's my way or the highway" but in reality there probably are a lot of options they would accept. Can you introduce some other options that you both might be able to live with? Know your bottom line - it sounds like it's that your ex needs to be supervised or in public when he's with your son.

~ You won't get vindication from court. There will be no moment where the judge says "You sir are abusive and she did not deserve to get abused." It is much less satisfying to "win" in court than you might think. But if you do push for court, it will likely speed up the process - it doesn't seem like he's really motivated to settle yet. And the quicker this ends the sooner you can get on with your life and focus more energy on helping your son.

I will tell you that there are people on these boards whose exes settled and it was SHOCKING. Like you'd never in a million years think that person would've agreed to anything. When my H was in court with his ex I thought for sure she was going to take it to the judge, and then three different times she folded at the very last minute, sometimes hours before a hearing, and agreed to pretty much what he'd been asking for all along. (At the time I gathered some of my thoughts and advice here, if that's helpful). It was a waste of tens of thousands in lawyers fees, but the kids ended up in a MUCH better situation than they were in before. And they both saved on what a trial would've cost.

Kind of to the heart of your question, I think the key in all of those settlements was that the case was progressing and for whatever reason the PD felt like settling was more palatable than going to trial. If you feel like your ex is actually coming to the table in a reasonable way, or that there's a real chance that he might, then by all means continue. But if he's just dragging his feet, messing around and spending your joint money, then maybe it makes sense to move forward like you're going to trial. That might get him to come to the table in a more reasonable way. The other key is to be consistent and clear about what you're asking for while being flexible about compromising if it makes sense. It also seems like he's threatening to go to court as a weapon because he thinks he will have a hold over you - but if you can reverse it and say "okay sure let's go" then all of a sudden the power is flipped and my guess is he will not like that.

Basically I would say, if you have tried all these things and everything you can think of to work with him, and he's not budging, I think moving forward with court is really your only option. But you can also leverage that into a tool to get him to settle.

I hope this helps, this part of the process is so tough and so critical. Like I said though, whatever happens you guys WILL be OK.

[HotCocoa]

So, it sounds like he's threatening but hasn't done anything yet about a new custody case?  It sounds like he also has very limited visitation right now, currently?  So, keep going with the court order as it is now.  Don't respond to threats.  Only respond to questions about his health, or school.  Just follow the order as it is.  I know your son states he hates his dad and doesn't want to see him but consider it a blessing that they are in public together during these short visits.  I know this is so hard, but don't waver from the agreement.  My ex was the king of the threats.  "I'm going to get full custody and turn the kids against you, I am definantly the superior parent!!"  I used to receive many, many emails, texts, and variations of that. 
It's hard to be hard against a threatening, bullying ex, but as it sounds right now, follow the order, don't talk about it, and wait and see what he does, then respond to your attorney.
As far as the assets, in my case, that was part of the divorce and separate from child custody issues. 
If your attorney is in the know, keep going with things status quo.  I know it is so hard, good luck.