Her verbal abuse over the last couple of days has been extreme. She has rolled out such gems as "you don't love me" (she is the one verbally attacking me), "you will never find another woman like me" and "you have changed" (yes, you no longer are getting your way. Lost her personal serf).
She went to bed in a pout. Built a wall between us on the bed and rolled herself in a blanket to avoid any possible physical touch. I fell asleep, woke up to go to the bathroom and noticed she wasnt on the bed and was sleeping on the floor. When I returned from the bathroom she was back on the bed and cocooned herself again.
Then the verbal abuse started again followed by some hitting and pinching. She wanted an argument in the middle of the night. I refused to get into it and suggested if she continued that she go sleep at her parents house which set off even more "you do not love me". She perked up when I said why don't you take a weeks vacation and go stay with your cousin. At one point I asked her if she wanted a divorce. Of course she didn't answer, just returned my question. Then the pity party started. Suddenly she was on death's door. Her whole half of her body felt numb, yada yada yada. Suggested we go to the hospital. Nope.
I have made choices in my life, the responsibility lies with me. She has made her choices.
Will keep posting on this thread the progression of events.
Lucky I had the heads up (thanks to this site and others who have traveled the same path before me. You have provided a road map). Strangely calm and not going to get drawn in those no-win arguments she creates. The only way to win, is not to play.
Thanks for listening.
Seems like you are on a good path.
She is getting stressed as I am not responding to her as before. Last night was beyond nutzoville. She was being critical of me, then wanting a reassuring hug, then back to abusive and then wanting a hug or for me to get some thing for her. Her standard lately has her been asking me to do small things and several small things like get a glass of water, I would get the glass, sit down and a minute later she would want something else.
Then it was time for bed and I was just getting ready to sleep and she said she was going crazy then a few minutes later starting singing some kind of song she learned while in school (kindergarden?) then said "Yes teacher, no teacher, F YOU teacher", then went back to the song and repeated the whole thing including the teacher stuff several more times. When ever I talked to her she responded normally. Guessing she was trying to sooth herself? Or see how I reacted.
What ever it was........this was a first and a new level of cuckoo.
Her "spell" over me is broken, she must feel this but rather than her "trying" to throw me a bone, she throws more of the abuse mixed in with the smallest morsel possible. Her need to be in control, to win, to dominate, to avoid looking weak is stronger than anything.
They try and control everything around them but they themselves can not control themselves. They are controlled by their anxiety and need for attention and other twisted feelings inside of them.
I like your style of writing ( if that's any consolation).
Your reference to the other members providing you with a road map was very well put.
You seem to have an extremely strong emotional distance from her now which is fortunate considering her bed time antics.
Her mind games towards you are all engulfing on her part. Panic that her hold on you is weakening. You are her captive audience at bed time. Hence the repetitive song singing. Anything to keep you in her world.
Because even sleeping would be a form of self care that distracts you from her.
That song thing honestly strikes me as a method to make you worried for her and her sanity so you take care of her again. Imho.
Quote from: square on January 18, 2023, 08:20:43 AM
That song thing honestly strikes me as a method to make you worried for her and her sanity so you take care of her again. Imho.
:yeahthat:
My STBX used to crawl round on the floor hysterically crying to try to make me look after her, after 5 minutes when it wasn't working she tried a love bomb instead, and when that didn't work she tried to rage at me, then back to crying, full cycle in less than an hour.
ITDD,
It sounds like you have made a decision: you are all done, wrapped up, over it, no mas. If that is correct, it is time to take actions that will protect you (and her) and your assets as -- I suppose -- you move towards divorce. Things get ugly when we don't consult an attorney and make Good plans early: right away.
If that is not where you are -- if you remain open to trying to acheive change -- then you'd need to run-not-walk to a couple's counselor before irreparable harm is done. But it really sounds like you are past that.
Either way, you seem to be on a strong path.
Quote from: Starboard Song on January 18, 2023, 09:28:20 AM
ITDD,
It sounds like you have made a decision: you are all done, wrapped up, over it, no mas. If that is correct, it is time to take actions that will protect you (and her) and your assets as -- I suppose -- you move towards divorce. Things get ugly when we don't consult an attorney and make Good plans early: right away.
If that is not where you are -- if you remain open to trying to acheive change -- then you'd need to run-not-walk to a couple's counselor before irreparable harm is done. But it really sounds like you are past that.
Either way, you seem to be on a strong path.
:yeahthat:
1000000% correct Starboard, to achieve a divorce with a PD without using middlemen is nigh on impossible. I am over a year in and no end in sight and I have had a lawyer for 15 months.
THank you everyone. Your replies mean the world to me. In the real world I have not shared about my wife with anyone.
24 hours ago I was looking forward to going. I wasn't even getting the tiniest breadcrumb. But last night was painful. She gave me the entire loaf and I didn't expect it nor ask for it. We had a perfect evening, perfect night (she hugged me and snuggled like old times) and a lovely morning and that hurt so much. She knew what I liked especially the snuggling and falling asleep together and withheld it for years (she usually cocooned herself in multiple layers of blankets or just leaves an ankle out so we can make some form of physical contact) .
All this made me remember a video (Too much and too late). It hurts, but then again, that was the intention.
By noon, she had brought me back to reality. The quips.
Feel lost and uncertain today. Fully understand I should go. Fully understand what staying means. Due to my age and physical limitations, I know if I leave, I spend the rest of my life alone. Either path is going to be a sad one.
I'm 65 and am single. It has it's ups and downs. The ups being total autonomy, which I prize highly, and complete peace and quiet on the drama front. The downs are a lack of intimacy and the feeling of being totally alone in the world sometimes. I counter this with cultivating and maintaining my friendships, being very active in the voluntary sector (purpose and cameraderie) and having my dog for snuggles.
I choose being single and mostly happy over in a dysfunctional relationship where my very Self is under attack every time.
Hi Boat Babe, thank you. I was figuring others had walked the path that I have to walk and so good to know it has its own happiness.
So glad tonight, she is trying to create drama tonight. I am back on track.
Glad to be of service. I am on day one of a little tour of various friends, staying overnight. Went to a nice pub that I know and played a new board game (Carcassonne) and chatted with acquaintances then went back to my friend's place and we sat on her bed, drank beer and chatted for a couple of hours. Tomorrow, me and the dog are driving to another friend's 60th birthday celebration which will be delightful. Good food, wine and conversation and laughter, guaranteed. Next day I am visiting a couple who live near the coast and we will walk the dogs on the beach. My friend is cooking a mega Sunday lunch. We'll probably round off the day with a film.
I'm not telling you this to boast but to show you how rich the single life can be. It's nothing fancy, requires no special equipment or very much money but all this makes me happy.
You too can be happy again, can have your life back and your choices entirely your own. I believe in you.
Getting the full on devalue.
Oh the manipulations.
Part 1: Actually occurred months ago, she told me how after her first boyfriend left, he found a woman to live with and after a couple years she hoovered him back, refused to be intimate and gave him the same mind numbing experiencing I am getting
She said she felt r (aped) the last couple of months when we were intimate. This is part 2 of the manipulation
Part 3. She totally stops all physical contact except for not by accident brushing up my thingy several times a day. (I am not taking the bait, I know if I respond, huge drama)
Result: This has helped me to realize that being alone is a million times better than living with her.
I now look at everything she says and does as manipulation.
Every happy moment today she has tried to create drama. Have not taken the bait, played like I do not understand and kept smiling.
Kudos to those that face this full manipulation for years. A couple days and I am exhausted.
Vaknins alcohol and the covert narcissist has me worried, hope she leaves me alone once I am gone.
She had been down and sleeping a lot until I called her out on her behavior a couple weeks ago.
Now she is active and angry. Very angry but she does seem to have a plan. She does
Quote from: InTheDragonsDen on January 19, 2023, 05:06:27 AM
Thank you everyone. Your replies mean the world to me. In the real world I have not shared about my wife with anyone.
I think it is time to change that. Our friends and acquaintances in real life can give us so much strength. Our IRL friends hold us accountable. I'd encourage you to think about all your friends and family, and think of the one person you most can trust with your heart. It may be a stretch.
At one point in our crisis, I was talking to someone I just volunteered with, and didn't know well. But I knew his background and trusted him to be wise and honest. It worked. He was honored that I came to him and we have supported each other ever since.
A friend who knows everything and still respects you means a lot. There is so much you can share with a friend that we cannot possibly know. And -- and this is big -- a friend can give and take even when you are being wrong or stubborn. If you trust a friend, they can help you to make plans and stick with them.
I wish you so much good strength.
No family left. Just me.
Added 2 friends that I stopped contact with 3 years ago.
It feels so wonderful.
Wife went to a community dance followed by a private party at her relatives. She was suppose to stay overnight.
Enjoyed my day walking the dogs. We have a morning and dusk / or dark walk at night. Very rural area. Stars perfect.
She calls when I am on the walk. Video call, all she cant see anything I so knows I am not at the house. I tell her I am about a mile from the house. She says she is staying the night (that was the plan).
Back home, enjoying music outdoors with the dogs, couple hours later and she is home. She drove home drunk. Couldnt walk to the house. Guess at her cousins when she left she backed into and over turned a cement table. Car damaged. Had to get her to bed, clean her up. Car and her covered in vomit. Get the towels, water, etc set up and the "pail".
When she goes out to any event where there is music and people the results are always the same, well except for the car damage and her driving home. That was a first.
She drinks to the point she gets sick, usually can not remember things she has said. Her cousin does the same. Actually her cousin is usually the first one to go down, or stumble and fall, or sit on the ground, and usually the first one that is done for the night.
At home with no party she can go weeks without drinking or take 1 beer. Parties, full on nuts. She needs the "courage" from the alcohol to change from an introvert to an extrovert....... and hunt.
DragonsDen,
Im sorry this occurred.
It actually very much angers me that she risked seriously injuring or killing an innocent person by driving intoxicated. I understand the basics of the law, and that police, even tipped to a drunk driver, will probably only pull the driver over if erratic driving or some other real legal reason to do so. In some cases, I understand even a reliable tip from a family member is not enough for law enforcement to legally make a traffic stop without real evidence, as tips can be abused.
She is not only putting others at risk, but you as well, in liability. That in itself is another hasty consideration imo, in your decision making to protect yourself. In self-protection, you may want to consider some strong boundary action/reaction you will now make to protect your liability, using this incident as the spark to make it occur.
That decision-making may also just save the life of an innocent person.
SoT
i SoT, in 9 years this is the first time and it is also the first time I refused to drive her / watch her party.
The rages and way I am treated the last 3 months have obliterated my "fear" of being alone.
Realization that this just will progressively get worse and time lost.
Realization of the way they think, the vindictiveness, manipulation, lies, etc. I am absolutely sickened.
No obligation to babysit an adult.
Building new friendships is the goal. Dogs are a great way to relax, feel happy and meet new people.
Looking forward to a new and free life.
The good news is, the bond is broken. Took far to long to see things as they are.
Everyday here is a day wasted, except for the time I can enjoy alone.
I am feeling for you dragon. PD and drinking problem is a toxic combination, I had a "friend" when I wad growing up that ended up in fights and other trouble as soon as he drank, he then tried to settle down with a girl and kept complaining to a friend of mine how they could not stop fighting at home. Now with the knowledge and what he has done lately I a know he is a PD. Would your wife settle down and have less PD tendencies if she stopped drinking? Even if you still go ahead with the divorce, would the whole process be easier if she stayed sober? I am not sure, could you get her into some kind of rehab? Even if it doesn't save your marriage, it might save someones life?
Good luck dragon, you really are in the abyss right now.
Hi Escaping man,
She needs attention and as an introvert she needs the alcohol at social functions and then once empowered by alcohol she becomes super extrovert. For example climbing on huge speakers to dance to get attention and considering she is older than the teenagers / twenties crowd it stands out. Actually the other day I was joking with her saying she will be the "dancing grandma".
Eventually the runaway train will run off the tracks in old age. It will be quite a train wreck.
Most days she does not drink. She may have 1 beer at home per week.
Lucky enough to see the video alcohol and the covert narcissist by Vaknin and it mostly fit.
She is not addicted to the alcohol but she is addicted to the attention and she needs the alcohol to change into the extrovert, the hunter.
At social functions she looks for other men to connect with. Once they share contact information, well, you know where that road goes.
I can tell who she is looking at and whether this man is seeing her for the first time or if they have a history, or at least I think I can.
There is always 1 man that she singles out. In the past she was more reserved. Now she meets a man and seeing the two of them you would think they are the couple which is why I no longer go out with my wife to social events of any kind. This also helped me to understand their "compartamentalization". I would get attention before and after. The new man during the social event.
Any bond or connection to her is gone. Must say I feel revolted by being near her but until I find work, this is the best I can do. Little down I didn't move out yesterday but with no job, high risk.
Everything becomes so crystal clear once you have no feelings for them and want to get away as soon as possible. So tired of the endless pity party the last couple of months. Lucky there are no children involved.
Have found a slight way to improve the home situation. Dangled a carrot. Some would call it a future fake. Now this carrot is on a string and she will never get that carrot. But the carrot has brought quiet today and I think it is a big enough carrot to keep her fixated on it until I am out the door for the last time.
How are you doing ITDD?
Hi Escapingman,
The bond is gone. Totally. I am sickened inside by her manipulations and hurtful remarks. Sickened when she shows her true self, the vindictive behaviors. It is a stomach turning feeling. The illusion "I created" is gone.
Have learned it is okay put myself first. Since my childhood, I have been the caretaker. There is a slight tug to be the caretaker but I have learned that this is a losing relationship for me. I give. She takes. I give all, She discards once I have nothing left to give.
Have learned that I must work on building more friends, building and maintaining boundaries in my life.
Know that I will probably be alone the rest of my life but that is so much better than waiting to get discarded once I have placed the rest of my life and given all I have to give. No, I want more from life.
Need work. Have had interviews and I hope. If work does not come right away then I will take the first opportunity. At the moment, she doesn't leave me alone and goes everywhere with me.
There is the stress and anxiety of "needing my freedom". I dream of the peace and quiet to come.
Last week has been her withholding terms of endearment (which is ok at this point) WHILE she has been taking selfies of us together to put on social media to show what a happy couple we are WHILE behind closed doors she is angry at me, pinching me, hitting me (neither are hard enough to hurt more to release her anger / covert style), silent treatment, etc. She also talks about us in the future and I do not believe this is future faking but meant to keep me in the relationship. They have to dominate, have to win and also punish their partner. When you realize they are controlled by their need to control and being a covert type one can expect little else.
Has to control. Has to dominate. Has to win. All she wants is for me to go to work, make money, forget about any affection from her, allow her to seek others for her drug (attention) and then when she has everything she needs to sustain her way of life, I should die.
Thanks to this site and the Dr. Ramani youtube videos I have "woken" up.
The illusion I helped create is gone. The bond is gone but there are moments, brief moments when I almost "feel" the urge to go back to the illusion but those moments are measured in seconds. Keeping a written log book of all the lies and hurtful remarks really helps.
If I had to describe our living condition at the moment it is like two roommates being put together who are not overly hostile to each other but certainly not friends.
There are multiple little quips everyday from her. Overall we are basically grey rocking each other.
She shops online and I asked her to buy a piece of medical equipment for my health issue, which she has never even acknowledged I have. She refuses to buy it for me she said set up your own account and do it for yourself. Which matches what I long believed. Her ultimate wish is for us to stay married and for me to pass sooner than later. Oh the attention. I will get the medical equipment myself.
Hopefully only another month or two and my life can resume in quiet.
Waiting to lock down work. On the doorstep so to speak.
First time I actually felt scared.
I am very sensitive (uber empath). Very sensitive to changes around me. Her family had 7 dogs when I arrived. They had a distictive white / black coloring. In the area they were unique. Three days ago the last one died, old age. She always ran to great me when I went to her parents place. She is gone.
The vet just moved and closed shop. My dogs have been sick so much it was a running joke how often we would see him and he would also drop by the house to check on the dogs. A huge parcel of land where I walked the dogs had a lovely forest. It is being cut down for farm land. For the first time people that I had seen on the street passing by (giving and taking warm smiles) for years I now think about soon I will never ever see them again. Same with all the local shop owners.
A year ago I thought this was my forever home. My forever community. I felt I belonged.
Due to my age and health most likely I will live alone the rest of my life. Not a happy thought. The other side, this relationship is dead and beyond repair. It is torture but it is a familiar torture.
She cooks and cleans. Any semblance of intimacy is gone.
Feels like the best of everything is behind me. I tried to get her to talk to me several times in the last few months. Nope impossible. Unmoving. Uncaring. I did it in a very slow mannor and didn't really get a chance to get into anything. Once the anger started I said it was okay and I stopped.
Yup, I am scared. Big time like a baby. The bravado is gone. If I stay, I have no control of anything. She could end it at any time or do anything.
There are other things that brought me comfort and they have just changed / ended within weeks.
I do not want to live alone. I do not want to stay. Worse yet if the job does not come through, I have to stay.
ITDD, I stayed for so long because I didn't want to live alone. Now I am out, I am so much happier and at peace. You don't know what is going to happen, but being alone is so much better than being abused.
I hope. I hope you are right. I have no family left. No friends. Just her.
Quote from: InTheDragonsDen on February 15, 2023, 04:30:27 AM
I hope. I hope you are right. I have no family left. No friends. Just her.
I had no friends thanks to STBX, I am trying to build a network of friends but it's difficult especially when I struggle with trust. Can you join any social clubs or activities? I know it is tricky, I am an introvert so I find it difficult with new people at first, if they stick around it gets easier with time.
We are all here for you ITDD, we got your back.
Also a introvert. Not into clubs and most past friends are women, who naturally end up in a relationship with.
I am hearing you, ITDD. It's very hard.
Either I jump or she pushes. This is the way I see it. One way or another this will end. My work is outside the country. I will be gone for over a month at a time. She will find another and it has always been easier in my mind for her to do so.
I know the transition time will be the worse. Once I transition to a temporary home I then have the freedom to find my happy place.
Thank you Square and Escapingman.
When a relationship between two non's reaches the point that one or both no longer care about the other there is a sit down, a talk to share ideas and also to reduce the tension between the couple.
Talking or sharing thoughts with a NPD at this point only gives them more information.
I am having a ton of stress at the moment.
Is there a way to get a covert narcissist to be the one to end the relationship??? I can find nothing on this on the internet.
Yours told you how she works. I think she is almost certainly going to remain true to that.
If you need a push out the door, perhaps something will happen to provide it.
Hi Square, stress relieved. Her parents would never intervene BUT I did go talk to them asking to talk to my wife. Her mother and her talked and when I returned home my wife was very very civil and she dropped the silent treatment.
One way or another, sooner or later, the inevitable will occur. At least for today, I have peace and quiet. She went to her parents house soon after I returned and let me tell you, it feels great to have the place to myself.
Still waiting for the final word on the job.
Quote from: InTheDragonsDen on February 15, 2023, 06:43:59 PM
Is there a way to get a covert narcissist to be the one to end the relationship??? I can find nothing on this on the internet.
If she is anything like my covert uNPDstbxw she won't leave as long as she is is getting supply. You have to look at all supply, emotional, material, whatever it is that gets her tick. Looking back I can see that STBX would never have left as living in the house in the neighbourhood was enough supply for her, and as she could not have afforded to keep the house herself she needed me. The irony is that she had everything, and I would have kept provided, but she had to, just had to add the abuse to it and in the end it was just not tolerable anymore.
ITDD, I think now is the time for you to stand up for yourself and be a man, end this yourself. I wasn't brave enough to do it for many years, but the relief to be out and the peace. I can't tell you enough how grateful I am to myself for finally taking the required steps. I didn't get it perfect, I can see things I should have done different, but when you are in the middle of it you can't see and think, all is about survival.
Good luck.
Hi Escaping man, thank you and I had also thought about the "total supply". She needs me to work, she needs the social status of being married, she needs the social status of a happy family in the community. LOL She just doesn't need it to be me.
Question for you, when you noticed your wife wanted it over, how did she act towards you? Did you notice a huge change in her behavior? It so, can you write in detail about this as I have been looking for this on videos but there is nothing there.
Set a boundary in November and another a few weeks later. Lots of raging on her part. The second time, I could tell she had enough and wanted me gone. The hugs, the pretending all stopped. She has gone stone cold.
Today she gave me the silent treatment. Refused to answer and I went to her parents. After which at least she talked to me. Tonight, I see her as uber stressed.
Havent worked in 3.5 years and hope I can go back in March or April. Once I do a month at work, I can walk through the door.
Money opens the door to freedom.
The biggest thing I learned is that when it is time to leave, do it when she is not home, no talks prior. Either is like having a hand grenade taped to your body and you yourself pull the pin. It is going to blow up in your face.
ITDD, STBX never wanted it to be over. I am pretty sure she still wants to come back and continue where we left it. However, when I decided I was going to leave and didn't play her game anymore she rapidly got worse. She got cold, raging, lots of silent treatments, played the victim etc. When I eventually filed for divorce she managed to up it another level and she was walking round like a ticking bomb, one moment she raged, the next she was the victim and then she was trying to be nice - she could go through the entire drama triangle trying out all roles several times an hour. In the end it went so bad that one morning, I took my bag with my work stuff and walked out the house, she was raging at me whilst I was going but she had no idea I had no plan to ever speak to her again. Later in the afternoon I collected DD from school and we went to a hotel. This was 8 months ago and I have never spoken to her since.
Thanks Escapingman, your ex's final reaction matches my wifes current state. My wife looks totally out of sorts.
Things here went rapidly downhill when I started to use the "no" word. Kaboom.
My wife wants to things to return to her being able to triangulate with others while having me at home happy in servitude to her. Now, she knows there is a cost for having both (she knows I walk if she starts to stray).
THank you so much, your past with your ex mirrors my present day with my wife. They can't change. They do not want to change. They are not capable of change. Mine is addicted to attention. She had a little boost on Valentine's day posting her pics but I was surprised how quickly afterwards she became depressed again, and angry (silent anger).
Two days away on a business trip.
First day rumination about wanting a functional relationship with my wife. People watching. Sitting on a park bench and walking in the park. Re-connecting with my friends for a couple of hours.
Second day. No rumination.
Third day: Two days away and no feelings of anxiety, no light thrumming of the chest, no stomach pain. 1 km away from the house, the low intensity anxiety starts.
Back in the dragons den. Within 5 minutes of connecting with the wife she has 4 double speak put downs.
Today: Stomach pains, low grade chest thrumming sensation. Welcome home. Today's reminder from her. Everything is a transaction to her. If she does "A" she is expecting "B".
Path forward: Don't look too far down the road. Get to step A first. Obtain a job, obtain a steady income and ensure it is all secure from her reach then start planning the next step.
She raged when she found out I met my friends for a couple hours. First time I saw them in three years.
I got to keep a lot of my friendships secret, not because we did anything we shouldn't but because she would find a reason to rage. I have a very good female friend, we have been friends since we were 16 or so. When I had moved to another town, she moved there as well and whilst she was searching for her own place she stayed at mine. We even shared bed, nothing romantic or sexual, we were just friends. After STBX met her she decided that this friend had a crush on me and I was not allowed to see her. I kept meeting up with her when in her town, just never told STBX, we did nothing wrong and I had no energy for rage for no reason. I haven't seen this friend for many years as we live in different countries, but this was one of the earlier red flags that STBX tried to stop this friendship. She also tried to stop me from keeping in touch with my oldest childhood friend that I I have been friends with since I was 6 and lived 2 streets away from me. However, there was one friend I made through work that came to stay at ours once. She LOVED him and wanted him to come again, do I need to say he had a Porsche and parked it outside our house.....
I can so relate to your trip away. I used to go on regular work trips, when I got in to the taxi to the train station or airport it was like a massive weight fell off me. Then on the way back the taxi ride back to the house was just filled with anxiety about what was to happen. Towards the end, when I had been out in the car, I always had to drive around the block and some side roads to delay going back. There is a lot more to write about this, but I don't want to hi jack your thread but I might share more somewhere someday.
Keep strong ITDD, we got your back! We know exactly what you talk about. You are amongst friends!
The two days away made be realize how much better I physically feel being out of the house.
My plan is firm: Job, 1 or 2 months work, then plan the escape.
Have read over and over and over again when it is time to leave for the final time, no discussions, they will rage, make sure they are not home, they will rage.
Nothing to be gained except a world of pain and life long memories.
Slip out the back Jack!!!
You got it. Any confrontation will weaken you. Just split.
Have heard too many horror stories about others who have hoped for a normal split and closure.
I even tried the "trying to work out our issues" but I stepped very very slowly and non confrontational. Immediate reaction from her hostility, didn't want to discuss anything and she said "just tell me what you want". At that point I gracefully took the off ramp from that topic and haven't even thought about trying again.
Looks like the odds of me going back to work in late March are rising. Lots of stuff going on to prepare for a work visa, etc. Keeping my wife in the loop. Last week and the week upcoming are going to be busy obtaining the required documents / legalization / notarization.
AND............................
All the negative words and behaviors have stopped. She is happy. Lots of snuggling during the day. Morning and bedtime routines are restored. Suddenly I am not being ignored. Suddenly she is being nice.
Which tells me they do make a conscience choice on how to treat people. They can be nice the year round IF they wanted to. They realize their words and actions hurt people. They are just adults who have never matured past that of a child.
That is exactly who I picture my wife as, an adult who has the emotional level of a child. Selfish. Empathy is something not jet mastered. Knows right from wrong but doesnt care. Impulsive. Wants there needs met now.
For the first time in years my partner was "into me" last night. She was caring, attentive and everything a husband could possibly hope for.
After she asked "how much do you love me?", "do you love me with all your heart?", "do you love me completely?", "you love only me until you die?", and several more. Knew this was coming before she asked all the questions.
What I was left with was sadness. Sadness that she can not live a normal life. Sadness that her life and how she responds to life is predictable, self centered and unable to care for anyone but herself. She is unchanging and unable to change. Sadness because I see the emptiness inside her. Hear her words of hurt when her "friends" do not place her as their best friend. Her friends miss her but she feels slighted when she feels that she isn't their best friend. When she sees her friends happy without her it hurts her inside. Such a basic understanding is beyond her.
A life spent being hyper vigilant and attacking anybody viewed as a threat, moods up and down, anxiety, slight paranoia, sadness and a whole lot of anger, contempt and loneliness and obliterating anyone that really cares about her.
Yes, I know her back story. Know that she had a totally chaotic childhood.
Today I will be away again from the house on a 1 day business trip. Tonight, I will sit in a lovely park in the middle of a huge city. Will sit and read a book and look up every once in awhile and watch the afternoon turn to evening and evening turn to night and I will appreciate life to the fullest I am capable. Life is precious. It goes so quickly. My partner of 9 years showed little to none traits for 6 years. Yes there were small red flags but due to us living a rather exciting 6 years of building a house together and multiple trips to other countries it fueled her enough to keep her "busy". Then I reached a point where I thought, hey, we have done it all, or almost all, and it is time to just sit back and enjoy life that our paths really diverged as she could not handle the same - same of everyday life. She needed more. She needed the attention.
She is struggling now with not getting enough attention. Her senior years I can not imagine how she will cope. If she is lonely now surrounded by her family what will happen when most have passed beyond?
Yet, I hope the best for her, that one day she may have a grain of self-awareness, that she learns how to live with norms without controlling them.
Last night in bed my wife was looking through her Facebook. She showed me a video of her cousin dancing at a party the night before. My wife said "does it look like she is not having any fun?". Then my wife explained that her cousin tried to get her to go to the dance and told my wife "if you not come I will not have any fun".
My wife gets very hurt inside when others are at parties / dances that she is not at and her friends / cousin are enjoying themselves but she is not there. Explained that her cousin said that she would not have any fun if she was not there to try her hardest to get her to go and that yes, her cousin would have fun but she would enjoy it much more if my wife was there with her. (This is the second time I tried to explain this concept).
Was feeling sad for my wife as I tried to explain this to her, now the second time. She was hurt and we were talking very relaxed as I wanted her to understand. No emotions. Soft, slow talking. Lightly touched her arms. Tried everything so she had every chance to hear the words.
Such simple concept's are beyond her understanding. She only can think on how it effects her. Her cousin is the only female friend she has and my wife is definately having multiple issues with her cousin. Not just this.
This morning again I was ignored totally. Add in a few sarcastic remarks sprinkled with contempt. She went out and called me and in the middle of me replying to her she just hung up. (She she meant to hang up, call was not disconnected).
By the end of the month I should hopefully be at work. I hope.
Mornings like this, even when I know it is the norm, does effect a person.
Listened to Dr. Ramani and she said the only chance of them changing is if they hit rock bottom and often that is not enough. Have tried my best. I am certainly not perfect but I did try my best and I do want the best for her, but I also want to enjoy life and in this relationship it is not possible. The daily stress with her around and the brief moments I get to enjoy quiet in the house is rare. I am tired.
There is no bond remaining. I see the manipulations as they are happening and getting really good at anticipating where her "hints" are leading to.
She was a real queen this morning.
Trying to push my buttons.
Hinting she is going out today to party with strangers. (I actually am happy for the time alone in the house)
Dream of my future. Being free from manipulation.
Days like this would be a joy to walk out.
Last few days I am getting very strong vibs that she views me with utter contempt and is not hiding at then she switches to the polar opposite where she is giving me the vib she wants me to stay (for the money earning potential) and back and forth, back and forth.
This could be her way of trying to get me to "comply" or it could be her internals going back and forth.
What ever it is I find myself having to really work at not "acting out" and maybe that is also what she is after. To show others that I am unhinged.
If others have experienced this I would appreciate your views on to what is going on and why.
Thanks.
In the end before the split was definite STBX tried to make me stay by applying pressure in a desperate way. She could take on all roles in the drama triangle within 10 minutes, she first came screaming in my face, to collapse in tears on the floor just to then bring me a coffee and try to give me a hug.
Rinse repeat.
It's an exhausting way to live, both for us non's and the PD themselves. Please try to find a way out of this sooner than later both for yours and hers sake. You have decided to end it, the longer you keep it going to more worn down you will get.
thanks escapingman, today would have been a good day to head for the door. Money, or lack there of is the hold back. I really need a couple weeks at work to break free. Out of work for 3.5 years now. My line of work was hit hard by covid and the slow down in the world economy, then the war in Ukraine. Still half the people I worked with at the last job are still looking for work.
Escapingman, why do they bounce back and forth??? I do not understand this.
I think that they first try to get you to comply using one of the tactics, if that fails they switch, and it that also fails they switch again. Then they keep trying until you either comply or they give up (for a moment).
PDs struggling to regain control over their spouse/stbx tend to act like spinning allegators, IME.
They spin this way, then spin hard the other direction, then back again while hoping to gain your compliance once again, often escalating in unimaginable ways.
Expect her to wake you up and disturb your sleep so you're emotionally and physically breaking down while she gains in strength.
Expect her to make every promise you ever neeeeeded her to make in the past...... and she'll have zero intention to honor a single one.
Expect her to rage then play the victim while blaming accusing you of doing what she's doing.
Expect her to use sex and threaten to tell friends and family or call the police to make false allegations
to
get
you
back
under
control.
You will be well served by shifting into observer mode and becoming curious about everything
INSTEAD of judging anything good or bad. Just let everything be what it is, document like crazy, prepare to defend yourself should she accuse you of domestic abuse..... prepare to show a court what it is you're dealing with.
Keeping a calendar with notes and details is good.
Make your cherished possessions safe, bc she'll destroy, take, hide or threaten to harm them, IME.
She'll tell you everything you DESERVE to hear...... and you can go through this with detachment, curiosity while doing what you can then putting this story on the shelf while turning to the joy available to you
OR with fear and worry worry worrying coping strateg that might be a habit that brought you to this place.
You have choices and choosing to suffer less, act more and focus on self care, instead of the PD and her behaviors..... is a choice as is documenting EVERYTHING happening so you're in good position to PROVE your case from the get go and NOT get labeled an abuser or just as crazy as the PD.
Curating your proof and facts will be important when you craft your divorce petition. If I could go back, I'd NEVER list ANYTHING I couldn't prove..... ever. It made me appear as unstable or MORE unstable than my ASPD N stbx, which did not work for me, let me tell you.
You want to put together a case you can prove easily, with good evidence and you'll do well to STOP caretaking the PD, enabling her and trying to make things easier on her, bc she's going to twist you and use your kindness to crush you, if she can, IME.
Putting together a good plan, with sane helpful supporters, then following that plan NO MATTER WHAT THE PD promises or does is solid advice you're welcome to take or not.
Just say'in.....
if you hestitate, you'll likely donate your credibility, any resources you guys share, your sanity and your physical welbeing..... that means doing ANYTHING the PD begs or demands you do will likely weaken YOUR CASE, strengthen hers while expanding your case by time, expens and trauma times or more, IME.
Most of us learn the hard way, unfortunately, Dragon,bc most of us ended up with PDs bc of our people pleaasing habits, co dependence, enabling and an aversion to conflict that drives our choices without our understanding.
I guess I'm trying to say.....
if you intend to behave the way you always have, expect more of what you're getting.
Changing up what you're getting will require a HUGE upheaval in your comfort level.......
it will require you learn to sit with discomfor and DO NOTHING while you're upset or while your stbx is emotionally tormenting you.....and internpersonal terrorism is something she's GOOD at, while you're compassionate and kind.
Think about that. Think about sending very succinct messages to the court once you file, bc once you seem to hem or haw.... your rights can go right down the toilet, along with your credibility and ability to be heard and taken seriously.
NO contact, once you file, is better than staying in contact. YOu'll begin to feel like your old self again and you need to be on your side, Dragon. Have compassion for yourself and a game plan...... distance from the stbx is your very best friend, IME.
I wish you the best possible outcome.
Hi hhaw,
Thank you so much.
I always keep my phone near me. Have recorded her rages, threats and breaking household items.
Think I am okay if I do not cause a problem in the community. Her public image is probably the most important thing to her. Basically the rural area we live in is full of her second, third, fourth, etc cousins and relatives. They could and should rename the town using their family name.
She will do the smear campaign to her family and her friends. I can live with that as I have no attachments to anyone. I am well known and liked in the community but at a very distant level. Add in I have no family remaining except for some distant relatives I have not seen or heard from in decades, assuming they are even still alive. Luckily we are in a remote area and none of my "pre relationship" friends have ever met her or talked to her. We have no children shared. I can and will walk into the dark night within the next 2-3 months. She also knows my last marriage I shredded my ex's lies at the divorce proceedings.
However, I do believe she will try a "hoover' later. As she said to me about her ex "I did everything I could to get him back and then" And then she tore her ex to pieces and chased him out on her terms. She took him away from a happy relationship and destroyed his life, at least for awhile. I will go no contact and close all my limited social media. I rarely use anyhow.
Took the photo and fingerprint access to my phone off long ago. Closed my email on the phone as an added safety. Turned off notifications.
There is no bond remaining but I have to walk away when she picks at me. I am not going to look like the crazy one. Asked her to go on a small local vacation, as I like the nature spot and it would be so relaxing going for solo walks in the forest. She told me go by myself. Nope. Not going to let her spin that one. I can wait a few months.
On the side of caution and how what I do or say would look to others. I can wait.
24 hours plus of being with her pre-devalue style. Keeping her informed as to the progress for me going back to work. She has completely laid of the crap she flings at me WHICH is another indication they know what they do to us is hurtful and done on purpose with malice towards us.
Music in the community. Big party day. She dressed up and headed out the door. A little bit of freedom.
But it also reminded me of all the times we went to dances, bars, private parties, etc and the only time she never went "hunting" was when a female friend she needs was tagging along. She always says I am taking my cousin or other female person as if that is enough to stop her. She flirts in front of me but thankfully, never ever ever again.
Hope to be at work before the end of the month. Then 4-6 weeks on the road. After work in my room, books, iphone games and most of all quiet.
2 days plus of riding high and smooth sailing.............. waiting for the job................
Job = Immunity Idol, at least partially.
,
Everything for the narcissist is a transaction. They will give something but only if they get something in return.
Three weeks away from going to work.
Life is now back to how it was in the first 6 years. Doubt 99.99999% of the population would ever guess my wife has a PD.
Yup, there are still small "hints" but you would have to know what to look for and you would need weeks or months to see any pattern.
Considering others experiences and there are no children between us, no shared friends or family, I am to this day, extremely lucky compared to others who have lived and dealt with their PD partner both during and after living together.
It's good that you've been able to continue focusing on what you need to do to live on your own. Keep it up!
Have been treated like a prince the last couple days. We went to the city to go to the mall. She was snuggling and touching me softly as we walked. She was giddy. "Now we are going to have a happy life", in reference to me going back to work. The translation is "I will take all that money you earn, decide what to do with it, make sure you can't get the money back and punish you later. Wait you'll see".
Everything they do is a transaction, they give and expect a huge return for their breadcrumbs of attention.
She spotted a place to get some "attention" from a couple male store clerks as we were leaving the mall. She sent me ahead to the car. I exited the mall and circled back to watch the show. For 10 minutes she never saw me sitting 15 meters away from where she was "busy" with the sales clerks. She then walked back to the car while I sat and waited for her to call. She called and of course asked where I was, Told her I am sitting on the bench a few meters away from where she was "shopping". She wanted to know why I didn't come with her when she was finished "shopping". Never replied to this question no matter how many times she asked. Just a grin and silence. Pretty much made her in a negative mode that did.
In the car she said "It wasn't my fault they gave me attention". I just laughed and laughed.
Not her fault males give her attention when she stares at them. Not her fault males give her attention as she shows interest in them. Just not her fault.
Do you have plans in place so she can't access your "exit money" when your work begins?
Yes, mine is mine and hers is hers.
I like how you did not comply. You sat on a bench nearby instead of sitting like a good boy in the car. You did not pretend you didn't see any of that ridiculous behavior. You laughed.
You're not under her control.
Thanks Square,
Basically I did what she would have done. Ignored the other partner and waited for them to walk to the car, wait until she called, then give her enough information so she knows how much I care about her. At the time I wasn't thinking about it this way. I just didn't care about her needs. There was zero emotion from me. Wasn't on a spy mission. Read what she really wanted, wasn't going to sit in the car waiting for 10 or more minutes and I returned to the mall, watched a bit and enjoyed not being alone and surrounded by people shopping in the mall.
Today she has to go to a sporting event, young adult males playing soccer 20-25 ish. Community event. I could go and watch the fun but my time is better spent doing what I want. She was relieved when I said I would stay home. That's all I need. Confirmation.
My dearest has been partying since 9:30 AM, close to 8 hours.
Went to see her and no surprise, out of all the people still drinking she looks the most drunk and always, she looks like a helpless drowned mouse. She is with relatives and friends of relatives. The helpless victim.......
THe day sitting at home alone has been reflective.
She is being kind and considerate, mostly, but at the same time making sure that she is always in control. She gets her way one way or another, sooner or later, in everything. If I have a moment of trying to go back to how things were the first 6 months, it doesn't last long. Example, she has some lovely clothes she wore at special occasions / candle light outings when we first met and she knows that I like, I have asked repeatedly for her to wear again, nope, she hasn't worn them in the last 5-6 years. She has photos of her in those evening dresses set around the house. She will bring up those special evenings from time to time about how lovely they were and how much she enjoyed them.
She tells me her plans for a get together, then every couple days changes them, changes them again, and again, and makes it seem like I should know about each change.
She goes out and tells me she will be right back, nope. She goes out and says she will be gone for a couple of hours, minutes later she is back in the driveway. Everything is a game. Everything is about control.
At times I think it is just better for me to move through my day without even talking to her or interacting with her. It appears to be the only way to avoid these small games she plays daily. Was close to suggesting that she should sleep in the spare room several times but of course, she doesn't want to sleep alone.
This thread has been locked for length.