Do I keep this a secret?

[MyLifeToo]

So much secrecy! It feels like uNpdm has made me swear to keep secrets my whole life. Secrets which protect her from potential shame. My grown up kids aren't allowed to know what these "secrets" are, but she'll use it in an argument, such as "if you knew what I've been through/done for this family R, you'd understand..." She won't tell them what she means, and I've said I won't (and I like to keep my word even to her). These are things that go back to before I was born and I can understand that she would not want to talk about them, but hey, don't use them in a power game.

The latest drama is that she's been scammed (on internet) for thousands! She was suspicious at first but never asked my advice or my kids'. Sad but true! She'll trust some anonymous con artist, but not her own family. Anyway the police are involved and told her to tell us. She reluctantly told me but refuses to tell them in case they "go on at her" for being stupid, and made me say I wouldn't tell them either. And that's my moral dilemma. I feel isolated and uncomfortable knowing this huge thing and not sharing it with them. I think they should know, and the police think they should know. I'd also like their support because I feel very sad about the whole mess.

A bit of backstory, at Xmas ds politely asked her not to keep making snide comments about him. She was horrible, and I've no idea why it was his turn to get her wrath. Anyway it blew up out of all proportion and "he made her ill" by his treatment of her. The argument went on and on, he kept trying to end it, she wouldn't stop. It's total nonsense, but that's how she feels, and they haven't spoken since. She keeps trying to talk to me about it and every time she tells a different story of what happened, none of which was her fault obviously! It's almost laughable except she 100% believes herself and calls me a wicked liar when I tell her what actually happened.

Anyway, after she told me about the scam I thought I should visit and maybe check her IT over, help her change passwords etc. She's in her 80s and her social life is all online as she can't get out. I've been trying to mc since Xmas, and had a 2 week silent treat, but really felt I should offer my support here. However, while I was considering going, she sent me a message saying the my ds will NEVER treat her like that again, and she now has police friends who know how vulnerable and upset she has been. 

Well, that stopped me dead in my tracks!  There's no way I want to enter that conversation ever again, and I think it would harm us both if I went to visit. Is she inferring that she's spun the police some story about her abusive family? I'm upset and angry and probably a whole raft of other emotions that I don't even recognise.

I'd really welcome any words of advice, thank you for reading.

[moglow]

If she -or anyone else- tells me something in confidence, I dont share it. Should they know? Probably. Should you tell them? Nope. That just puts you in the hot seat, something to hold over your head for later. BUT neither would I sit back when she brings it up in front of others, goading a situation they know nothing about. "Either say what's on your mind or don't, but stop this silliness!" If they ask you, send them to her.

All that said, I think it's up to you what you're willing to discuss with her or listen to. If she has problems with your son, sister, cousin, the mailman, the clerk at the grocery store (guessing there's a list) - not your stuff. You dont have to listen to it or try and explain others, she can take it up with them or leave it alone.

We started shutting mother down years ago, the gossip and drama was so incessant. Always this about him and that about her and the thing with the guy 20 years ago and "you know what I'm talking about..." innuendo. Just driving a drama train. I punched my ticket way too many times and finally jump off! She's not thrilled with it, but she can take that negativity elsewhere.

My personal experience has been, if she'll say it *to me* about others, she'll say it *about me* to others. I've told mother flat out I don't want to hear others' secrets, that it's none of my business. I don't trust or believe mine as far as I can throw her. I don't share my personal information, and if she shares her own with me I make it a point to not share that either. Her circus, her monkeys.
Did that ramble make sense?!

[Psuedonym]

Is she inferring that she's spun the police some story about her abusive family?

I bet you 5 bucks she has.  Our mothers are very similar if I remember correctly, and your son and I are in pretty much the same boat: your son called her out to her face, I did it in a letter, but the results are the same. They absolutely cannot tolerate being called out on their behavior, and will tell anybody and everybody their 'version of events' in an effort to prop up their own deluded beliefs. In my case, since I've been NC for several months M has been on a mission to convince my BF that I'm a crazy, unbalanced liar. At one point she told him that she had gone to see a new doctor and that she had told the doctor that I hadn't visited at Xmas and the doctor had said "oh that's terrible, Pseudonym must be very childish and immature." As you can imagine I felt terrible that she told some rando stranger a whopper to which he may or may not have responded with those words...not! But that's what they do, when the original source of their offense refuses to argue about it anymore, they just take it to a new audience.

As far as the 'keeping a secret' thing, I don't do that anymore, either. There were many things I was supposed to keep secret, such as the way she bad mouthed other people behind their backs and her own dysfunctional behavior. This new secret reeks of 'I'm telling you another victim story so you'll feel sorry for me but I don't want other people to judge me for digging this hole for myself.' Sort of a having your cake and eating it too, scenario. In any case, it sounds like her police friends are on top of it, so I would bow out of the whole situation if I were in your shoes. She most likely is trying to drag you into it in order to change the subject back to your son, anyway. The police have probably grown weary of hearing about it.

[MyLifeToo]

Moglow. Thank you, yes I agree it's not my place to tell them and I not going to. M phoned last night, the excitement of the drama has now worn off and she's out to blame someone. I could tell from her tone it was going to be a long, emotionally draining session! I reassured her that I wouldn't tell her secret, but I told her even though I was uncomfortable with keeping it I would not tell. WHY!!?? she demanded to know. I gave her a couple of valid reasons and she wouldn't let it drop. "But whyyyyy". "I've just told you" "but whyyyyy". "I've told you why, this is why, ... Now stop talking about it, the subject is closed." "But we've got to talk about it.." In her mind I guess we've got to talk about it until I 100% agree that it's a bad idea.

I tried to gray rock my way out of it all, but that was getting me nowhere fast. I should be showing more care, more concern. I demonstrated how I had shown care and concern but apparently she didn't want me to do that, hadn't asked me to do that, she has the police looking after her now. I give up! I should never have thought I could help. I told her I was tired and wanted to go to bed, and she sneered at me saying "you're not some little old lady". Yes I am, m, goodnight!

Moglow, got said you'd shut yours down years ago. How did you do that? I feel that all my polite attempts fail. It's the waif mode that kills off all my intentions. I'm enmeshed and think I can fix her, even though I know I can't, but maybe this time I might..? 


Pseudonym,
This new secret reeks of 'I'm telling you another victim story so you'll feel sorry for me but I don't want other people to judge me for digging this hole for myself.' Sort of a having your cake and eating it too, scenario.  
You've hit the nail on the head as usual.

And don't I just know it about them talking about everyone, including us. She's told me her friends think I'm dreadful for doing/not doing/saying xyz . In the past she's talked about how awful other people are, and don't I agree with her, surely I must agree. And I've stupidly agreed, thinking it won't matter, only to find that she's talked to another person and told them exactly what she thinks and that ML2 agrees! It's Dangerous!

I told her I will visit for 3 days of my week long holiday. She demanded to know why it couldn't be longer and I was very close to caving. I know I still might, and I need to set boundaries. The last thing I need is to listen to her judgements and criticisms about everyone, and her trying to wear me down into agreeing with her. I want to warn her that I'll leave if she starts trying to manipulate me, but I get so befuddled when she starts they I'm often dumbstruck. I am thinking about writing it in a message, but that feels cowardly. Could I  wait until she starts, and then tell her - the trouble with that is that I don't notice emotional abuse until it is quite far gone, by which time it's too late.

Back to the toolbox I go...

[HotCocoa]

Narcissists love secrets, some secrets aren't meant to be kept. 
Shine the light on the secret. 
imo - this is her way to have a secret relationship with you and something she knows you won't tell your kids.
Your kids.
If they find out later on, is this going to damage your relationship with your own kids?
It's not worth it.  I would tell them and tell her to never tell you anything again that has to be a secret from the people you love.
Stop playing her game.  Let the chips fall where they may, but secrets in narcissistic families are how these toxic families thrive. 
Don't be a part of that and don't keep something from your kids that they may need to know. 
Sounds like she's trying to drive a wedge in between you and your children and that is not healthy.

[MyLifeToo]

HotCocoa I think you're dead right in your analysis, they really do find power in secrets. I've weighed up the consequences of not telling them. They know what she's like, they've seen it for themselves, and have also had the delight of being told to keep secrets. I am certain they won't hold it against me, and they are probably better off not knowing in this case, because they won't feel compelled to try to fix the impossible, and can't be blamed for not helping.

Thank you for your reply, these are very important truths about narcissists.

[moglow]

Mother was really bad to say "Don't tell so-and-so I told you but ..." then go on to tell others the same story, and get mad at ME when it all came back that the "secret" was out. She'd do the same about her own stuff, then be livid when someone mentioned it later. One sister in law would come to me with "your mother told me ..." with embellishments from what mother had told me. Yeah no. It just confirmed for me that mother was doing the same behind my back.

It helped when I could be firm about it and flat out tell her - I'm not keeping your secrets and don't want to hear "theirs." That's none of my business. She'd insist it was my business because it was my aunt/her sister or other family members. Nope. Still not my personal business - and her telling me to not say anything didn't change that. If it's a secret, it isn't to be talked about, period. I've shut it down hard by literally changing the subject or ending the conversation entirely when I had to. She'd bring it up again, but nope. Over. I made it clear I didn't want to hear it and refused to listen. It did NOT go over well but I stuck to it and still do.

You want to share someone's good news? By all means, please do so I can celebrate with them! Mock them, laugh at their pain, belittle their decisions that backfired? Keep telling me this is just between us and please don't say anything? Nope. I want no part of it.

[Medowynd]

In terms of your holiday, I would schedule the visit for the last couple of days so it can't be extended.

Actually, you deserve a break from her manipulations and whining.  Maybe schedule time to see her in the next millennium.

[Juniperberry]

Family secrets eventually come out in the open.  Plan for that reality. 

Would you prefer your mother upset because you told your children this information, or would you prefer your children upset because you withheld this information?  Pick your preference and then tell or don't tell accordingly. 

I'd pick maintaining the trust of my children.  But you have to pick for yourself.