excessive gifting

[scattered_78]

Do any of your PD family do this?  My MIL bombards us with 'things'.  It's so annoying, and anyone who hasn't experienced a person like this just thinks I sound cruel and ungrateful. 
It really annoys me as she bombards our 2 kids with gifts.  We have asked her to keep gifts to 'occasions' (birthdays/Christmas) but she just can't seem to help herself.  Every time she visits she brings a bag of gifts.  Not necessarily big gifts, but so many.  Books, pencils, clothes etc.  She has also started posting things to us as we haven't seen her as much due to Covid.  We have refused a few things (e.g. ridiculously expensive small suitcases for the children that we neither wanted nor needed).  Today she has emailed to ask about a book for DS1, turns out she has already bought it and wants to post it to him.  I've asked her to keep it for Christmas.  When she was here last week, she brought another gift.  I said thank you, but I will put it away and give them it at Christmas.   Why won't she listen? 
She even told my youngest once that she 'wasn't allowed to buy him presents anymore'.   

This comes from a woman who once told me, when DS1 was about 3, that she hates spoiled children and detests arriving for a visit and being looked at expectantly for a gift.  She also gave me a book called 'Saying No To Children'.  I didn't ask for it, there was no discussion about it.   Who on earth gives a relatively new parent a book implying that their parenting is lacking??

I really don't know what else to do.  I'm fed up having the same conversation over and over.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Yes, my ILs, grandpa in particular was terrible. It sounds like your kids have a lot more contact than mine ever did, though. With us it was once or maybe twice a year, only when we would see them. We dealt with it after they left. It was pretty easy to take the piles of stuff and say, wow this is so much we don't even have room. We'd let our kids pick one thing to keep and let them bring the rest to donate. As far as our kids were concerned it was just a weird thing grandpa did and we didn't have drama over giving things away. We regularly give away unused items so it was normal. DH did have the excessive gift conversation many times to no avail. Eventually we went NC, and the dearth of presents has apparently not been noticed by the children. They only get gifts from DH and me now.

With my own PD parents, it wasn't so much the quantity of gifts as the quality. UNM would buy only TV character items, which I dislike (we don't even have tv). She would always say they were the best presents because as long as it had the right character on it the present could be anything and the kid would love it. I made things so hard for her with my highbrow standards.  I donated the stuff and she knew it. When I went NC with THEM, we were in a power struggle over it. I would make several suggestions of what they would like and they would be Pooh-poohed. She would also ask about things she wanted them to have, be told no thanks, then give it anyway. I got rid of all of it.

Telling your child about conflicts between you and her is not cool. She's trying to make you look like the bad guy and get your kid on her side against you. Even if you don't agree, healthy adults do not try to divide children from their parents in any way.

All of this is undermining you as a parent. She is not on your team. Her own agenda to feel like a fun grandma, have your kids like you, whatever, is more important to her and she feels entitled to do what she wants. She knows what she's doing.

Having the same conversation again is tiresome for everyone! You aren't dealing with normal grandparents wanting to be a little indulgent. Tough boundaries are warranted in my opinion. Donating is an option, but looking back I wish I had just not let the stuff in the house in the first place. Perhaps we will allow ONE thing per kid, and anything more will not be allowed in the house. We will make sure the kid never sees it, because adult conflicts are not the child's problem. And any more undermining my parenting to my children, the visit is OVER, and you won't get another one for at least x weeks.

Sometimes this is hard because I didn't always see the undermining in the moment. Or it happened quickly. We saw them so infrequently in our case and I felt so anxious around them that I let a lot slide in person. But you can still do clean up. Eventually we got to the point where there were virtually no positives left to the relationship and I was done. But many people are able to manage with strong boundaries. Good luck!

[all4peace]

In DH's PD family system, extreme stinginess is actually a bigger characteristic.

For this type of thing, I've seen people use really good spoken boundaries. Something along the lines of "We appreciate your generosity, and we want our kids to understand the meaning of hard work and the value of material items. We'll accept gifts (these specific occasions/times of year). After that we'll share your generosity with (local shelter/Goodwill/struggling family).

If it's a super hostile situation or you think it could get highly conflictual, you could simply do it rather than announcing it, or maybe announce in writing. Good luck. It sounds like a challenging dynamic.

[Pepin]

Yes, PDmil did this all the time -- but with food.  Every time she came for a visit, she would bring food.  Didn't matter if it was home made or store bought.  If she saw something on sale, she would buy extra and bring it over.  Or she would buy the extra large size and bring over the extra expecting us to take it. 

If we hosted a meal, she would bring over a bunch of dishes -- that had nothing to do with our meal that we had planned.  It really wasn't fair or nice of her to do this, especially when we were the ones doing the hosting, planning and prepping.  I know some people would say BUT the more the merrier.  Nope.  Not when it happens every time.   And it was especially wrong when we were hosting other people and had prepared a large meal and our fridge was already full with what we made....we just didn't have the space.  And it took up our time having to deal with it.

I had to talk to DH about it and he agreed to talk to her.  She eventually stopped.  She also learned to ask before bringing or giving anything and I finally had the freedom to say NO.

[prettyinpink]

Ugh, I totally get what you are feeling. My in-laws (mostly my FIL and SIL) are the same way. It was really bad when my oldest son was born (he's 9 now) and the gifts they were giving him were excessive and unnecessary for a young child. Now we have 2 more children, so my husband has told his parents that if they want to buy the kids stuff then that's fine, but they can keep it at their house. Seems to have worked (for now).
With my SIL, we are currently NC, but when she has bought stuff in the past, we have ended up donating and/or returning things from her. She likes to buy a large quantity of crap and we got tired of telling her that we didn't need any of it.

[scattered_78]

@Pepin, she does it with food too.  Then gets all offended when we tell her it's not needed.  On a recent visit she asked me if she should bring x,y,z.  I said no thank you, we have plenty and I don't want it to go to waste.  She went ahead and bought x,y,z anyway then stormed off in a sulk when I wasn't falling over myself with gratitude.   

[Starboard Song]

I really don't know what else to do.  I'm fed up having the same conversation over and over.

I think plenty of non-PD grandparents do it, too. But yeah, a PD will onvly exacerbate the insecurity and lack of control that can lead to over-gifting.

We had done as you did, saying gifts were for occasions only, no matter how small the gift. And some types of gifts, like a Easter basket, for for parents only, and a grandparent version wasn't OK.

When that didn't work, we told them that unapproved gifts would literally not be accepted, but they could stay at their house. And after that, any gifts brought to our home were bagged up and sent home with MIL at the end of the visit: the kids could use those pencils or play with those action figures at her house. We usually caught such items before they were presented (you'd see the big bag coming out), so it created little disturbance to our son. We did the hard work early and put an end to it by about age 5 or so.

Your boundaries are yours: if it is unwelcome in your house it doesn't stay in your house.

Good luck!

[Leonor]

My m was a total over gifter. Like ridiculous and embarrassing. I had grown up with it but it always made dh super uncomfortable. We started simply giving stuff away. It was actually healing and so much fun to deliver a luxury good basket with champagne to the volunteers at a church soup kitchen on Thanksgiving Day!

Of course when I stood in my truth the gifting stopped. The gifts were rewards for good behavior, not a demonstration of goodwill.

My ils have little but they over gift too. It tends to be used stuff or stuff that's awkward or huge and useless. It's not a bribe; it's a way to get in our house. Either way, it's the same: strings come pre-attached!

Gifts are a perfect PD manipulation tactic because there is obligation and guilt involved ... sugar coated in an appearance of generosity and love.

You are the parents. You make the rules. Take that book, cross out the word "child" and write in "inlaws". Then hand it back to them.

[H_Allison]

My MIL does this but only on occasions where gift giving is appropriate- mostly. With her, it's an attempt to 'win'. She wants to be the one that gives the gift that's the biggest hit with DD, or the one who gets the 'iconic' gift for our house. She got upset with us when we bought DD a dollhouse and didn't tell her. She wanted to buy the dollhouse.  She just wants to be able to 'claim' things in our house- a dollhouse is not something you can put in a toy box and therefore usually sits out as a noticeable staple in the playroom- gives her something to comment about when/if it shows up in pictures. For her, excessive gifting is a way of covering her bases to give her the most chances of purchasing the 'winning' gift.

[nanotech]

I'm reading this and I'm thinking something- I'm thinking that as a granny, I over-gift.
I do!
Daughters hubby has complained and daughter has said to me that sometimes our present looks more than theirs!
Whoops.
That isn't good.
Background- I didn't get a lot of presents as a child. Birthday money was a low low amount. Wonder if it's more about me than the grandkids? Eek.
I just thought it was a great thing to do.
I probably would have loved it if my parents had bought lots of nice things for my kids.

I'm not saying it's not used to manipulate, but in my case it wasn't.
It might have been to fill my own soul a bit though, I have to say.
Modest presents from now on!
Thanks for the heads up on this.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Nanotech:

That's brilliant! To someone in the DIL position of over gifting it almost seems miraculous to me that a grandma COULD change! Your DIL is a lucky duck!

[candy]

My cluster C mother would do it if I allowed it. She is a hoarder and compulsive buyer. After M had gifted one thoughtful toy, extensive accessories and 50 napkins to our child I had enough. I stated that we would only accept one gift per child on occasions like birthdays or Christmas. But I have to remind her once in a while.

I have donated stuff, sold stuff and I have put trashy stuff into the trash. Donating or throwing sthg into the trash only works for me when I really stop thinking about it. I won't stop M buying things - it's her life - but I do stop her flooding our home.

NPDMIL just happened to send 5 gifts to three year old DD for her birthday and give her another 9 gifts face to face. We've been NC with the IL's for two years before, so I thought MIL was probably catching up on everything that she missed. I thought differently when she had zero presents for our newborn child. I dislike the message MIL's gifting sends to my children, especially to DD who is old enough to enjoy the special treatment.

Concerning my PDMIL not only the pure amount of gifts is ridiculous but the act of giving itself is all about her, the donor, and not about our child(ren), the presentees. PDMIL rushed DD to unwrap the gifts although we asked her repeatedly to slow down, to stop, as DD was clearly overstrained by the situation.
My PDMIL was carried away by her own ecstasy, unable to recognize the child was not feeling the same way. Like you put it, she just can't seem to help herself.

It is a lack of impulse control, I guess. The problem is not on you, you are not ungrateful or anything like that. It's boundary disregarding behavior your MIL displays. It doesn't matter if she cannot help herself or means well. You have every right to be annoyed because you are the one being put into a position to clean up her mess, the piles of stuff and the emotional mess she causes your kids and you.

Maybe you, or your husband, can tell her to reduce the gifts to a number of what works for you and ask her to take any additional gift that goes beyond your number back to her home?

[bloomie]

scattered_78 - something that may help discern where your mil's true intentions lie and may further inform how you go about dealing with overgifting...

As you have already set limits you want on the number and occasions for gifts you could let your mil know you have opened a savings account for each of your children and anything she would've spent on more things can be given to be deposited into that account for your child's future... college fund for example. And could be given privately and separately from gift opening time.

A healthy grandma like nanotech (you rock!)  would adjust and adapt and respect your wishes and be happy to comply. 

A less healthy grandparent who may be in it for what they get out of it will most likely actively or covertly oppose you. At which point you could say... the gift giving isn't working for your family.

Good luck with this tricky situation. Let us know how things are going.

[Penny Lane]

This is a very timely thread for me because my stepkids' mom has ... a very different attitude about gift giving than DH and I do.

My attitude is "it's the thought that counts." I don't necessarily spend a lot on presents but I do put a lot of thought into them, trying to match the person with the right gift.

Her attitude is "more is more." She buys a bunch of random stuff and basically however much money you spend on a gift is its "score" in her mind, whether or not it's appropriate for the recipient. Think like, expensive VR sets and drones for much too young children. DH said when they were married she would just go load up on random DVDs and wrap them individually and give them to him - he doesn't even ever watch movies!

Probably even kids with healthy coparents like to turn birthdays and Christmas into a competition. When the kids were younger, this meant that they would point out that we got them fewer items than their mom did and we endured a lot of whining.

Now that they're older elementary/middle school aged, they notice the discrepancy in the opposite direction - more important than getting a bunch of stuff is feeling seen, and it's very upsetting to them, especially DSS 13, that their mom isn't seeing them.

This year for their birthdays though she really outdid herself in terms of being terrible.

She promised them a certain video game system. She actually forbid them from buying it themselves because she was definitely going to get it for them. For months they talked about what games they were going to buy, where they were going to put it, etc. They were SO excited.

Their birthdays came and went. No video game system. For DSS's birthday, at her house, he got: A bike that used to be hers, but she had run over it with her car so she couldn't use it anymore. (She did fix it, but it's still pretty much unusable). I believe she told them that they don't make these video game systems anymore, which they know is definitely not true. It's hard to tell just how disappointed he was, and when he was at our house we had a celebration with actual gifts, but I think it really bothered him. But she had gotten what she wanted, which was the adoration and the credit for months from the kids when they thought she was going to buy it for them.

At least in our case, the trashy presents and broken items live at her house not at our house.

What I've concluded is that the frustration of getting unasked for, unwanted gifts from a PD is about much more than the gift. Like I said, it's about feeling seen. It's about the fact that there is never an exchange of love as well as stuff. It's about trampling boundaries and control. It's about how even on YOUR day, it's about THEM.

These are all very real things, and they can be very hurtful. The very good solutions of donate/give back/throw in the trash don't heal those deeper issues. It's OK to be frustrated even as you solve the logistical problems!

[Pepin]

As you have already set limits you want on the number and occasions for gifts you could let your mil know you have opened a savings account for each of your children and anything she would've spent on more things can be given to be deposited into that account for your child's future... college fund for example. And could be given privately and separately from gift opening time.

Actually, from experience, I would discourage the college fund example.  This is another way for a PD to shine attention on themselves and it would take away from the college bound child.  DH allowed PDmil to fund a separate 529 for our oldest and if it weren't for the pandemic, we would have had to extend an invite to PDmil to our child's graduation ceremony to "thank"  PDmil.    No doubt PDmil would have beamed with the attention at being recognized for her "generosity". 

Since I will be controlling finances and payments, I will not be touching PDmil's 529 until the very very end of our payment journey -- perhaps it won't be needed.  There is no way in hell that her money is going to be used toward any credit of my child getting a college education.

Instead, just have money go into a general savings account that your child can use at their discretion when they are old enough. 

[Leonor]

Just wanted to say that I'm spending my quarantine listing all that stoopid overgifting from my grandiose narc mom on online marketplaces.

I'm not making any money, but I'm having fun being an online entrepreneur

Besides, two things went to people I know really love them. That made me happy.

[Hilltop]

Yes my PDMIL.  When DH first moved into MY house and we went on holidays she took it upon herself to redecorate MY house (she had the keys to feed the dog, I know big mistake).  New kitchen items, the bathroom, rearranged the living room furniture.  Would you ever think of changing a house owned by someone else, owned by a person that your son is only dating and removing their kitchen items.  That was the start.  When we bought our own house together after we were married she took it upon herself to buy us endless decorations and furniture. Bought some decoration tiles to be put in the new kitchen - 5 rooster tiles that would be placed randomly mixed in within the new tiles, yeah that didn't happen.  Just anything to make her mark on the place.

I tried saying no and of course she cried, called me cruel.  She of course needed to feel needed, needed to be in control.  I was told over and over and over that gifts were to be accepted and could not be rejected because that's rude.  I made the mistake of saying I was going to buy cushions so what did she turn up with the next day, cushions and expected us to use them.  I walked around our house feeling like I was a guest.  Eventually I threw everything out that she gave us.  I mean as I was told a person should always accept a gift but you can't tell someone what to do with that gift once given.

The way I see it is I had eventually told her that I liked decorating my own house and that we couldn't use most of her gifts so it went to waste and it was too much and we didn't have room and could she please stop.  She kept going, even giving more.  I finally realized it wasn't a gift.  A gift is given for someone else's pleasure, something they would enjoy, and she knew I wasn't going to enjoy this, this was all for her pleasure.  It was for her son however as I said to her, please if you want to buy your son presents buy them for him, however we don't have any more room for house gifts. Maybe rude but when you are receiving items weekly/fortnightly it was beyond stupid.

The way I handled it was to accept everything, eventually I didn't even thank her for most of it, I just took it, and didn't say anything.  I went home and threw it in the bin straight away.  Eventually she stopped after DH told her it was excessive.  It was ok for him to say it but not me, he wasn't cruel of course.

We also got food, sometimes left at our front door.  At Christmas we usually end up with 5 or 6 boxes of chocolates, 3 Christmas cakes, numerous packets of chips and biscuits and there are only two of us.  I just take it into work and leave it there.

I would say speak up at first perhaps a couple of times and tell them that you don't have room for so many things.  After that take the items and either donate or throw out.  I found with my PDMIL that after I told her how I felt she became worse with the gifts which was a clear indication to me that she was deliberately doing something to push my buttons.  Whether it was the reaction of "you're not going to tell me what to do" or pushing buttons or whatever, talking with a PD or Narc usually doesn't help.

[Pepin]

I found with my PDMIL that after I told her how I felt she became worse with the gifts which was a clear indication to me that she was deliberately doing something to push my buttons.  Whether it was the reaction of "you're not going to tell me what to do" or pushing buttons or whatever, talking with a PD or Narc usually doesn't help.

Ah yes.....PDmil behaved the same way.  She just upped her game, stooping at any sort of possibility to give a gift.  If we went out to eat she would take out her purse when it was time to pay and hand the kids a dollar bill each while she also prepared the tip (of which she has never understood how to do!).  She is always looking for a way to give something.  Opens up her pantry and peruses it and then takes out a bag of Lays Chips and asks if we want it.  NO.  She will do anything to have some sort of presence in our lives when all we really want is for her to just chill out and be a real human being.  I don't know why it is so difficult for these people to just engage in some light chat like one would do with friends and just have a good time.  Ugh.  PDmil hardly knows anything about me or the kids.....doesn't care to know and never asks the way anyone else would.  Just wants to give stuff and get recognized for it.  DH saw her last weekend and she sent him home with stuff from the garden....which will sit forgotten in the basement fridge.  If he doesn't bring it up, neither will I.  And when it spoils, into the trash it will go.  As others have mentioned, pretty much anything she has given has been quietly donated or trashed...

[scattered_78]

Urgh, she's doing at again!  She keeps giving us thing out of her home that she no longer wants.  She emailed me asking if I wanted a casserole pot.  I passed on to DH.  He replied, said 'no thanks'.  She rang to speak to DS on his birthday and I answered, she then asked me about the pot.  I said, 'as DH has already said, no thanks' and then she went on and on about how good it is, how it's her favourite, how it's too heavy for her now and she'd be sad to just get rid of it, how it would be great for me if I was entertaining, how she'll keep it for me until I need it.  I did a very good grey rock, of 'mm hmm, oh, I see' and then 'but still, no thanks'.  It's only a pot, but it's still annoying and another demonstration of how she just will not listen, unless what is being said is what she wants to hear.

[Pepin]

Urgh, she's doing at again!  She keeps giving us thing out of her home that she no longer wants.  She emailed me asking if I wanted a casserole pot.  I passed on to DH.  He replied, said 'no thanks'.  She rang to speak to DS on his birthday and I answered, she then asked me about the pot.  I said, 'as DH has already said, no thanks' and then she went on and on about how good it is, how it's her favourite, how it's too heavy for her now and she'd be sad to just get rid of it, how it would be great for me if I was entertaining, how she'll keep it for me until I need it.  I did a very good grey rock, of 'mm hmm, oh, I see' and then 'but still, no thanks'.  It's only a pot, but it's still annoying and another demonstration of how she just will not listen, unless what is being said is what she wants to hear.

A couple of things....if she gives it to you, you don't have to use it or keep it.  Once and item ends up in the hands of the receiver, the receiver decides what to do with the gift.  That being said, I wouldn't want any gift loitering in my cabinets so out it would go!

The other thing you could do is offer to donate it on her behalf so that someone else could enjoy it and get use out of it.

If she says no, then tell her not to bring it up again.  No is no.