Separating an eating disorder from a personality disorder

[Jumping Juniper]

I hope I'm not hogging the boards (it can feel like that) it's just that my life is seeming to implode at the moment and so many people around me display upds or fleas that it is hard to get a real grip on reality!

Over the last couple of years my sister has been great with me, being supportive of my recovery from depression/anxiety but she has a hard time getting her head round the narcissistic traits of both our parents. Sometimes she supports it as a theory and sometimes she doesn't because she herself became the GC/ survivor and exhibits traits and fleas herself.

Last night I broached the subject that everyone has been scared of for years: she has declared herself gluten/wheat intolerant and has used this as an excuse to have a restrictive diet. She has lost a frightening amount of weight and really scared me the other day by saying it isn't gluten but low acid in her stomach so there is lots more she will stop eating. When I asked what she was eating she said she currently lives off just fruit and vegetables as pulses and grains are no good for her.
I talked to her last night and the first time it went well as she agreed to see a nutritionist. I then mulled it over and realised that she's been saying this for ages and not dealing with it. I stupidly called her back and told her that I was worried she had anorexia. I have suspected this for years but never broached the subject as she gets very vitriolic about it.
The conversation quickly went downhill, she admitted that cutting out carbs was a god way to keep her weight down whilst maintaining that she hasn't lost weight for years as she weighs herself a lot all the time.
She then declared that the whole family is fat and her friends are obese whilst saying how healthy her and her partner are. She also put my worries down to my mental illness just after making me feel I'm overweight (I think I'm pretty average weight) and the whole thing became a mess.

She is in a relationship with a man who is a bit obsessive too about what he eats and exercises a bit obsessionally and they both regularly fall asleep in front of me when we see each other socially in the evenings. Her boyfriend is obsessed with "fat" people and always making jokes about them that makes me feel uncomfortable. He is very obsessed about appearance and often makes jokes/nicknames about people based around their appearance and this can make me feel edgy around him as though he is judging all of us.

I know that it is not up to me whether my sister should get a second opinion on her diet/ rapid weight loss but I worry that she says that her boyfriend looks out for her but she has been dangerously thin the whole time she has known him.

It's difficult because I love her so much and she is so fragile looking these days, even her friends and colleagues are worried about her.
I know it's up to her and it's her life but she's measuring her life/ worth and health by her boyfriends views and that is a broken yardstick.

I had to throw myself into the barbed wire to show my concern for her as she was scathing about everyone's weight and thinks her and her boyfriend are superior/ thinner/ more healthy than everyone else. She then said that she could exercise AND eat me under the table and that I was deluded because of my mental health issues.

She wants to talk to me tonight about it but I don't want to be gaslighted again as it is damaging for me. Do you think I should now just distance myself from it all for a while now I've said the unsayable?

Feeling very confused and upside down right now.

[goodgirl]

Oh my, JJ, I'm so sorry.  I'm sure somebody else will come along who is better informed than I am.  But in the meantime...

I think maybe it's good she wants to talk to you about it?  I don't say that it means she's ready to face up to the possibility that she has an eating disorder.  I wouldn't expect that and I wouldn't try to push for it.

BUT it does say "I'm not pushing you away."  And even if she wants to talk only in order to convince you of her rightness, it does give you a chance to respond with love and say, essentially, "I wish I agreed, but I don't.  And I won't lecture you any more, but if you ask me I will tell you my concerns.  And if you decide you think you need help with ANYTHING, I will always be here for you, to listen and help."  And then declare a detente?  One in which you don't lecture her on her weight and SHE agrees to not denigrate all those who don't meet her/her boyfriend's standards of thin. 

I know that's not a satisfying answer.  But it strikes me that she may need a safe person to turn to, now or in the future.  You can't make her do anything, but you CAN be that safe haven that she can turn to for judgment-free sanctuary, should she decide she needs it.

[Menopause Barbie]

I have experience with a loved one and anorexia and, from it, I have learned a few things about this terrible monster called anorexia. One thing I learned is that, even if it starts as a diet or body image issue, anorexia takes on a life of its own once the person sees her ability to make drastic changes in her appearance. It stops being about health or weight and becomes about self control and power over circumstances. Dieting becomes a drug, a soothing way of dealing with inner anxieties by taking iron-clad control over food. Think of your sister's anorexia as an addiction. No amount of reasoning with a drug addict will make her give up the drugs until she is ready to do it for her own reasons. Talking to her about it will only anger her, because anorexia is her drug of choice. She NEEDS it to cope and to feel in control and successful. Your bringing it up, even though it's done in love, makes her panic that (a) you want her to give up the coping mechanism that is keeping her afloat and (b) you think she is a loser. Like an addict, she will react by attacking you and diverting attention away from anorexia and back at you.

It is heartbreaking to see. My suggestion is to back off about the anorexia and concentrate on giving positive support to your sister. She knows what you think about her diet, and her reaction shows that she senses you might be correct. (Hence her attacks.) Focus on making yourself her soft place to land, so when things come to a head, either with her horrible boyfriend or her body breaking down, she can come to you without feeling judged or embarrassed that you "told her so" (not that you would say that). She needs to be ready to fight anorexia for herself, and, sadly, your words may just make her cling to her "drug" more stubbornly.

Even though she may have been the golden child, your sister has pain from her childhood to deal with. Anorexia cushions her from the pain. It blocks it. Her brain is so focused on eating and not eating that it has no time to process emotional pain. That is what your sister wants right now. Your words ruin her "high," her shelter from the pain inside her. Perhaps as golden child, she was under a lot of pressure to be perfect all the time. Now, with anorexia, she is impressed with her own ability to be in perfect control of her food and exercise, something us "fat" people WISH we could be! (in her distorted thinking) Anorexia is a way for perfectionist types to deal with anxiety, and the hunger pangs become pats on the back for a job well done.

My heart goes out to you. It is a helpless feeling to watch someone hurting this way and to have her respond to your concern with the most painful and personal attacks she can think up. She doesn't mean the things she says to you. She doesn't think you're crazy. She knows something is off with what she is doing, but she is afraid to stop because then she might fall apart. She doesn't really think she is better than everyone else. She actually is probably very insecure; but, in her mind, controlling her eating PROVES that she is strong and capable. If she were to give up her drug of anorexia, she would give up the one proof she has that she is special, a success.

The best weapon you have to fight this monster is to love your sister. Nothing you say or do will be more powerful than the monster she has invited into her body and mind. But love is stronger. And, when she is ready to fight, you need her to know that you are on her team.

[Menopause Barbie]

Just wondering if any of you--my trusted internet peeps--know of a forum kind of like this one for those fighting eating disorders? I need the climate of the forum to be positive and supportive or I am afraid to recommend it for the loved one I referenced in my last post. She has expressed a need for something like the moral support I get here. Anyone have any sites to check out?

[sandpiper]

No, but I have a couple of girlfriends who have worked in the eating disorder clinics in our home town. Ask your GP if she knows of one & then contact them, as they'll have the best advice.
I have heard some cautions about some of the supposed support sites for eating disorders as sometimes they get taken over by the disordered & it becomes the unwell leading the unwell into an even bigger hole.

We moved about a year ago & I've been getting to know the locals in my area.
I'm a dog-walker, so I was a bit taken aback to find an anorexic on one of my early morning dog-walking routes.
They aren't hard to spot - really warm morning & they are decked out in really loose fitting winter gear & obviously obsessively counting steps & calories.
I was a bit worried about this girl but what can you do with a stranger except smile & be friendly & hope that her family are onto it.
Well - I met her again last weekend at the house of a neighbour & this neighbour was brilliant. She was friendly, funny, happy, sensitive, and just treated the young girl as if she was a normal human being.
So I'm with MB - I think it's best to step back from the confrontations & just focus on having a good relationship as friends & as sisters.

Perhaps it would be prudent to seek  advice on this is from your family doctor. She'll be qualified to assess if your sister's weight & eating habits are harmful to her.

[Crayola13]

I hope I'm not hogging the boards (it can feel like that) it's just that my life is seeming to implode at the moment and so many people around me display upds or fleas that it is hard to get a real grip on reality!

Over the last couple of years my sister has been great with me, being supportive of my recovery from depression/anxiety but she has a hard time getting her head round the narcissistic traits of both our parents. Sometimes she supports it as a theory and sometimes she doesn't because she herself became the GC/ survivor and exhibits traits and fleas herself.

Last night I broached the subject that everyone has been scared of for years: she has declared herself gluten/wheat intolerant and has used this as an excuse to have a restrictive diet. She has lost a frightening amount of weight and really scared me the other day by saying it isn't gluten but low acid in her stomach so there is lots more she will stop eating. When I asked what she was eating she said she currently lives off just fruit and vegetables as pulses and grains are no good for her.
I talked to her last night and the first time it went well as she agreed to see a nutritionist. I then mulled it over and realised that she's been saying this for ages and not dealing with it. I stupidly called her back and told her that I was worried she had anorexia. I have suspected this for years but never broached the subject as she gets very vitriolic about it.
The conversation quickly went downhill, she admitted that cutting out carbs was a god way to keep her weight down whilst maintaining that she hasn't lost weight for years as she weighs herself a lot all the time.
She then declared that the whole family is fat and her friends are obese whilst saying how healthy her and her partner are. She also put my worries down to my mental illness just after making me feel I'm overweight (I think I'm pretty average weight) and the whole thing became a mess.

She is in a relationship with a man who is a bit obsessive too about what he eats and exercises a bit obsessionally and they both regularly fall asleep in front of me when we see each other socially in the evenings. Her boyfriend is obsessed with "fat" people and always making jokes about them that makes me feel uncomfortable. He is very obsessed about appearance and often makes jokes/nicknames about people based around their appearance and this can make me feel edgy around him as though he is judging all of us.

I know that it is not up to me whether my sister should get a second opinion on her diet/ rapid weight loss but I worry that she says that her boyfriend looks out for her but she has been dangerously thin the whole time she has known him.

It's difficult because I love her so much and she is so fragile looking these days, even her friends and colleagues are worried about her.
I know it's up to her and it's her life but she's measuring her life/ worth and health by her boyfriends views and that is a broken yardstick.

I had to throw myself into the barbed wire to show my concern for her as she was scathing about everyone's weight and thinks her and her boyfriend are superior/ thinner/ more healthy than everyone else. She then said that she could exercise AND eat me under the table and that I was deluded because of my mental health issues.

She wants to talk to me tonight about it but I don't want to be gaslighted again as it is damaging for me. Do you think I should now just distance myself from it all for a while now I've said the unsayable?

Feeling very confused and upside down right now.

She's afraid she will lose her boyfriend's approval. It sounds like he is putting unrealistic expectations on her and maybe himself, too. The gluten-free thing is probably coming from him. Is she putting her fruits and vegetables in a blender and drinking it? Has she purchased a Ninja or something similar? If so, that is because of him. I do that when I'm in a hurry, but some people get obsessed with it.

[tommom]

HI JJ, just wanted to add that Barbie is absolutely right. I also have had eating disorders, including multiple bouts of anorexia (yep, you can have more than one kind) and your sister is using her anorexia/ possibly orthorexia (obsessive over-exercising to achieve bodily perfection) to control her life. That may be why she and her SO may fall asleep in front of you. They are worn out.

The most common time young women (the main sufferers of anorexia) have this horrible disorder is when they go away to college, when their lives are most out of control. Those who have it come from (I'm not trying to diagnose your sister, just giving you info) come from dysfunctional families where they have a parent with it (I did, my uBPD/NPDm) and where they learn that appearance is absurdly important (not hard with a narc parent). If the parent is controlling (like PDs are) the parent tends to never allow the child to learn life skills they need, so they also tend to not have the most important life management skills (duh, if you family is dysfunctional) because they have had the ability to make decisions taken from them. Recipe for a lot of things, including EDs.

Trying to talk to her, like Barbie said, is like trying to talk to an addict. In her life right now, her anorexia may be the "best friend" she has, or so she thinks. She may need it, psychologically, just like any addiction. I actually wound up in an eating disorder clinic years ago, when I realized what a messed my head was about food, and I saw so many, many young women who just couldn't listen to anyone - including doctors and psychologists -about their very obvious problem. She may not be able to listen to you either.

The "she is in a relationship with a man who is obsessive" would be the most worrying part to me. She has "support "from this, possibly very eating-disordered person, who may look like her life-line. If she grew up with a controlling parent (your dad is NPD, yes?) then she may be hooking into re-inacting with him, too. Powerful, powerful combination for a person with a tendency toward EDs.

I'm really sorry, for you and for your sister...however....

May I say that (after what I have been through in my life) when someone says anyone is "too fat, too thin, too anything" I like to say: "What a person weighs in their business and no one else's. It is THEIR body. My body is my body, that is the ultimate boundary. You have no right to make choices for me. Period" I feel terribly sorry for people with weight issues, but I like to repeat the title of a famous book: "It's Not About Food." It isn't.

I wish the very best of luck to both you and to your sister.

[Menopause Barbie]

So glad you brought up orthorexia, Tommom. Most people have never heard of it and in today's world, with all the radical changes in what foods people view as "healthy," I am sure it is leading many people into anorexia before they even realize how unhealthy the changes that they've made actually are. By the time they realize, anorexia and the rigid food restrictions take over their lives. This is what happened to the person I keep mentioning. She started out trying to be fit and strong, not skinny, and wanted to maximize her lean muscle mass for sports. Next thing you know, the powerful feeling of having such rare self control and the feeling of being a success at controlling her diet and exercise created what I can only describe as an addiction. The healing for anorexia involves eating without restrictions, and can also lead to an ironic twist when the recovering anorexic has to battle binge eating disorder at the same time as anorexia! Eating disorders are monsters that can morph to gain hold on their victims.  I am so impressed with your ability to win this battle in your life and to share your struggles in order to help others. 

If you don't mind, can I ask what helped you turn the corner? What made you decide that you wanted to change for your own self, and not in order to please the people around you? Was there a moment or a thought or a book that helped you muster up the courage to change? No pressure if you want to keep your personal thoughts to yourself  ...

[Jumping Juniper]

I'm sorry for bringing this really old post now but I have done a lot of work and healing myself since posting this..

Unfortunately my sister is still painfully underweight and has food issues and it is still a badge of honour for her. The really sad thing is that I now am certain that her boyfriend has covert/ vulnerable narcissism and is the one who is controlling her weight. He also is trying to isolate her from friends and family and regularly undermines her generally.

I am trying to stay in touch with her and encourage her and be kind to her and make her feel loved.
I don't discuss food with her and yet she always brings it up. She wants to bake all the time and is always talking about food but then she worries about eating what she has just taken the effort to make.

We have a father with NPD. I'm hanging in there for her. I am almost fully recovered from it all (almost) so I am there for her. I am also strong enough now to help my mother out who is also realising my father is a narcissist after 50 years of marriage. It's heartbreaking to say but she has now become the scapegoat since the Covid lockdowns. Things have eased up on me now (as I am not scapegoated very often now) but it is awful to watch my mother and sister both go through it now instead.

I'm trying to be there now for both of them now that I am mostly healed.