No Clue How Things Will Go, But I Think I'm Starting To Actually Have A Plan

[HindSightIs2020]

What I plan to do is to expand on what I'm currently doing and remain self-employed. And be able to work full-time doing the same type of work that I'm doing. And earn enough that I am able to move out without having to get a second job. After college and ever since I ended up back with my parents, I honestly feel like my life has just kind of died out. Not even because my parents have done anything to sabotage my social life or anything like that, but simply because of being away from my friends, in a different environment, etc. I've made some friends here but not a lot. In general, it's honestly felt kind of stagant. If I'm able to earn enough money with the type of what I'm doing, I'll actually be able to live anywhere that I want to. Because I work remotely. Probably, I'd like to move back to the town where I went to college. Because many of my friends still live there. And know a lot of people up there. And I really miss it honestly. If I'm able to get my career to that point, I can't really see any reason why this wouldn't be a good idea. However, the only problem of course is my family of origin.

But not for the reasons that you may be expecting. Honestly, I do not necessarily see them as inclined to resist or have a bad reaction to the idea of me moving out and starting my own life in and of itself. Nor is this something that I have never talked with them about in the past. When I have, they have seemed to have no issue with the idea of this in and of itself. And my mom has even said that it would be seen as a positive thing, that like any other parent they would want me to be independent and live my own life. Could they change their tune unexpectedly at the last minute when they see it as more imminent? Knowing them, absolutely. But I have no reason to think that they would. In addition, my mom has actually been quite supportive and helpful to me when it comes to my career goals. But what I suspect may be a problem is their objections to the way that I plan to live my own life, yet they may not have issues with the idea of me moving out and making my own life in and of itself. That's the part of this that could lead to trouble. And I can see why it very easily/likely could.

On a personality level (not talking about the PD tendencies that I have experienced), my parents' personality is a bit overly cautious, image-conscious, reserved, and quite "together", somewhat socially conservative, and pretty judgmental of others by nature. They tend to value conformity with norms and values over authenticity and expression. I value authenticity very strongly, I am relatively socially liberal, am far less reserved and much bolder, and tend to be quite non-judgmental. I very strongly believe in expression and authenticity. If someone faces problems as a result of their expression and authenticity, I tend to side with the person who is being judged and tend to be angered by the person doing the judging. However, my parents are variable in this regard, and they tend to be guided by whatever the "mainstream" view and approach is to the matter whatever that may be. Whereas I tend to think for myself more. The fact is that my plans will essentially let them know that I do in fact want to live my life my way and not in the "right" way in their mind. Which is very likely to go bad, unless they have had some insight and/or change in their approach to things, which perhaps they have. Or perhaps not. It's hard to say

Basically, I was told growing up that if they saw me as not a fit with them as an adult, I would be permanently and completely shunned and discarded. That they would not even speak to me. That they'd only speak to me "if they liked me". As an adult, there has been a history of conflicts with them over various aspects of who I am and the decisions that I've made that they objected to. Some of the issues were extremely petty (e.g. things about the way I chose to dress.... as an adult in my 20s), seemed like the types of things that couldn't not get resolved. But with them, it didn't really work like that. And it truly amazed me how stubborn and persistent they can be. It would be one thing if the issues were all just them being incredibly stubborn about petty, small issues. But there's also the issue of my sexual orientation, which they of course objected to. And these objections were quite strong, with regard to me being bi. My mom even once said to me that she didn't know if she wanted to be part of my life if I "choose to live an alternative lifestyle".

Eventually, the conflict seemed to reach kind of a breaking point. And I really don't know where it has gone now. It's just hard for me to really say. For a long time (a couple-few years or so), they were quite persistent in their objections and quite demeaning, refusing to see me as an adult. And if my perspectives didn't align with theirs, they were wrong, simply part of my immaturity, that I'm "refusing to grow up", etc. I was persistent as well, in continuing to try and be myself. However, they did eventually hit a "breaking point" where it appeared that I was going to be discarded. My persistence in continuing to be myself and do my own thing caused my mom to eventually say that she had enough and that she was ready to discard me in a demeaning, callous fashion, with no regard for my wellbeing whatsoever. What caused her to reach this "breaking point" was a hairstyle that she disliked and caused her to be ashamed to be seen in public with me.

Only she did not discard me, didn't refuse to be seen in public with me like she said she would initially, and eventually seemed to essentially come around. She backed off about the whole hairstyle thing. And the dynamic has seem like it may have been a bit different since then. I feel like, at least mostly, I have been thought of as an adult by them it seems. Never heard them saying otherwise anymore and/or otherwise treating me like a kid/not quite an adult. Which has made me feel like I got somewhere. Of course, I cannot stress enough that I've thought I got somewhere with these people many times only to find out that I didn't. That is a very, very long pattern with these people. It has not necessarily manifested in the same way before, but that pattern of thinking I got somewhere and then all of a sudden they show their true colors and that I did not would really be nothing new. That is very much a part of the pattern, and from what I have read, this is quite common with PD parents.

I'll say that they are incredibly 'good' at doing this in a way though, perhaps even when compared with a lot of PDs. It's downright strange honestly. They can appear to become so heartfelt, so genuine about things when they really feel the literally opposite way, when it suits them. But it can be hard to exactly know why. Sometimes, it's simply that they just be that they don't feel like arguing, don't take whatever I'm saying that they take issue with seriously, etc., etc. In fact, with regard to the second thing, they actually said this as their reason for the phony act once when I called them on it. And they do it amazingly readily and casually. I have thought that they came around or changed in some manner, and their behavior can be so convincing...... then all of a sudden, they do a 180. On literally the same thing(s) they seemed to be okay with. And just go right back to being abusive and judgmental. And honestly, they just have a history of giving off vibes like they really don't care how their behavior impacts me. Like it's just utterly irrelevant to them and just a total lack of empathy, concern, understanding, or anything. More just like "yeah, sorry you don't mean enough to us to make us consider adjusting our views" sort of vibes. So, the idea that perhaps they did doesn't quite make sense in a way.

I'll say that during the last couple of years there has been relatively little discussed or that happened aside fromt the thing with the hairstyle. Little to no disagreements, therefore little reason(s) to say whether things did or didn't get anywhere. And these people can go on and on seeming completely normal, fine, nice, and even quite loving in the absence of it. Yes, they did actually back down with regard to that issue two years ago, but there really has been nothing since then to speak of for me to say either way. I wouldn't say nothing exactly, but fairly little, as I'll explain later. One very key thing to note is that they did not fully back off until I actually said that I would leave (and possibly said I'd cut contact) if they continued with the harassment. Though, I'll say that there have been no incidents of them trying to exert control other than this one incident that I don't exactly know what to make of it, which I'm going to make a separate post on. But honestly at the moment, I am thinking that it may not necessarily be any sort of accurate indicator of how things are likely to ultimately go with regards to my overall plans.

Prior to that, they appeared to back off a bit. But not completely, they kept going with it to a lesser degree. And had I not done that, they would not have fully backed off. In a way, I feel like there's no real reason to think that this is necessarily anything other than their way of "trying to keep a lid on things" by keeping me from leaving on the wrong sort of terms from their perspective. They have long seen me as someone who "wouldn't make it" without them, and perhaps they acted accordingly by pretending to back off to avoid actually driving me away, me leaving, and according to their view of me..... that I'd somehow go "off the rails", not be able to make it, etc., etc. thus causing damage to their image and/or that they simply saw that as a bad outcome and backed off/faked backing off accordingly. It may be no more than that.

But at the same time, they just kind of started treating me better and not undermining my personhood by openly not seeing me as an adult simply because of this. And that they just did not want to suffer from the potential damage to how they looked/were seen by people who they valued more as a result of discarding me. And their chameleon-like way of giving very different vibes than what's really on their mind, which is 110% their overall tendencies. Perhaps, they just have been doing what they felt like they needed to do to keep me from leaving under circumstances that would make them look bad and the whole "how would this make us look" is that mystery x factor that stops them from discarding and/or doing x,y,z when I have thought that. Honestly, that's simply the sort of thing that they do unfortunately. They hoover with incredible expertise and can go on and on and on doing it until something challenges it/triggers them to stop in some manner. That's just what they do and who they are, really.

Just as an example that scratches the surface of this a bit, when I first came out to them..... they acted completely okay with it, very supportive actually. Because they didn't believe me. Then, they started in with their judgment and abuse later on. And it happened at a number of points, they seemed to come around, got abusive again, circular cycles. And they followed this type of pattern with pretty much everything, totally fine with whatever the issue was, abuse and judge, appear to come around again and be fine with it again, rinse and repeat. Though, I will say that there are some things that may be different to some extent. The only that sets this time somewhat apart is that they seem to possibly be actually seeing me as an adult, as opposed to the demeaning vibes and statements along the line of "You're refusing to grow up, this can't go on forver?!?!?!?!" I really have not gotten this at all anytime since the incident I described before with my mom's objections to my hairstyle. There have been arguments, even some times where things got extremely ugly, but those old sort of "you're refusing to grow up, this can't go on forever?!?!?!?!" mindset, vibes, and talk have not resurfaced during any of it, at least not yet.

Overall, I am thinking that perhaps it could be worth it to try and talk with them about my plans, at least to some extent and see where that goes. I'll say that while it certainly may not (and likely won't) go well, it would not be completely foreign to them. There have been times in the past where I talked about going back there (this was quite a while back though). Aside from one exception that I remember, it was met with things like "it's time to grow up", "why there", etc. But still, they didn't do anything so dramatically horrible that necessarily would preclude me from simply talking about it. If they reacted negatively and were bound to see it as imminent, it's possible that they would pull some sort of crazy in an attempt to stop me from following through with my plans. Though, now just like the other times, they would not see it as imminent and immediate enough to do anything like that. Especially since I'd kind of phrase it as "ideas for the future" and ensure that they do not see it as something imminent/immediate. So, while they may very well react judgmentally when I talk with them about my plans, knowing them they'd see it as too far off in the future to really do anything to try to thwart me at this point.

Still, I'll start with something along the lines of that I "miss my friends up there" at times. Or something like that, and just kind of go from there. And if they don't react negatively, I'll talk more about my ideas for the future and see what their reaction seems to be. The thing is I'll phrase it more as ideas as opposed to plans. Knowing them, they may be phony with me the first time or for the first few times I talk about this. So, I won't immediately be jumping with joy if they don't turn judgmental the first time around. But as time goes on, if they don't react in a negative manner, I'll continue to talk with them over time about this and my ideas for what I want in the future in general unless and until they turn judgmental and verbally abusive, which is what they've done in the past. If they turn judgmental, I'll wait a while, pretend that I had "kind of a falling out" with my friends, and then have some alternate plan (which will also be something they will not want to hear, as so they don't think I'm just telling them what they want to hear and actually believe it), and then just leave one day and cut off contact. Sure, they'd probably manage to show up in my life again and start trouble, but the distraction tactic would most likely give me the opportunity to have a bit of lead time before they figure out what I actually ended up doing and where I actually was going. If they react in their old judgmental and abusive sorts of ways, it would be very difficult for me to follow through with this and go NC. But if they do have their old sorts of responses to things, it really would be for the best, assuming that I am able to pull it off in terms of supporting myself and creating a life of my own that doesn't involve them.

If somehow they don't react judgmentally when they hear about my future plans, I would be a bit surprised honestly. Truthfully, there is a lot in my plans that they may be bound to react judgmentally to. They have, on a couple of occasions, blamed my friends up there for my sexual orientation during their abusive "reactions" about that, because some of them are gay. And also accused me of being a "follower" to them and "picking up all their banners". Even one time having said that they "thought they were going to recruit me", and my dad once referred to them as "people with issues" when I said that I would miss them when I was leaving (in the context of saying that I could be friends with "people with issues" here too). One time they even accused me of having a tendency to lash out at them when I talk to my friends up there.

Plus, in their minds they would kind of see it as where the things that about me that they reacted judgmentally began to "surface" so to speak. Plus, there's more than enough grains of truth here for them to make hostile and negative assumptions about my plans and really run with it. In quite a lot of ways. For one thing, there's the fact that I actually did experiment with drugs a bit (though I did before I got there as well, I don't do that stuff anymore though). And the fact that I also did have some mental health issues towards the end, though this was caused by trying to get through to them about the way that they treated me in the past. And their gaslighting me that I was "crazy". But of course, they don't see that. And just see it as that I was "a wreck when I came back from there" and "had a breakdown". And I can remember them saying stuff about this when I talked about going back there in response to them attacking me in the past. I've just seen so much of them that's sickeningly judgmental and utterly horrible honestly. One time my mom even said to me in response to my coming out that if I "chose to live an alternative lifestyle" she might not even want to keep in touch with me.

Given things that they've said in the past, once I follow through with my plans I think there's a good chance that they'll twist the whole scenario into that I "went off the rails", how I have this screwed up life, and that they "tried so hard". But that things went downhill with me anyways, despite their best efforts. And that they were no longer a part of my life, for their protection because I was going to "drag them down with me", and because I was "so horrible to them", and that while I was here I was "just terrorizing them 100% of the time" (this is a line they've already used), that I was here "taking advantage of them and binging them for all they got" (this is something I have heard as well). Good chance, this is the narrative they'll spin about my life both to me and about me. And knowing them, if this happens, there will be no getting through to them whatsoever. Just a brick wall of NPD-type tactics complete with them twisting my words into something that's essentially the opposite of what I said (and fits their narrative), then attacking me for the words that they put in my mouth. I've seen them do this before, and their routine is to just stonewall, demean, criticize and put me down, and absolutely rip right into me when they get into this state.

However, I don't know that they are going to respond this way to my plans. If I did, I wouldn't be bothering to talk with them, because it would just be a waste of time and energy. They may actually have decided against the discard, shun, and smear campaign route. And if this is the case, I would definitely be extremely glad that I got to have a family rather than the alternate outcome. I'll also add that when things are going well and it seems like I'm on good terms with them, they actually can be very supportive and positive people to be around. Which is something that I really don't want to have to lose. However, I will say that even still, I'd want to kind of "check" to make sure it's not just a situation where they want me to be estranged but don't want to be seen as the ones cutting the cord, which is kind of what has been going on with my sister. They just keep in touch out of obligation rather than out of a true desire to have her a part of their lives (it's a very different set of circumstances and she is uPD as well).

But still, I'd take some time to kind of check to make sure that this isn't essentially what's going on with me isn't just them keepin touch/keeping things on an even keel with out of obligation. The way that I'd do this would be to try to hold back and see what contact, if any, they actually initiate with me after I leave. If I see that they are continuing to initiate contact, I'd have a good sense that they probably actually do want to have continued contact with me. Because I'll say that with regards to the interactions with my sister (again, she is uPD herself, so a very different situation than the one with me) they do not initiate contact with her. They'll answer when she is the one calling, but they do not initiate contact and have said that they'd "like to have nothing to do with her" and have admitted that their only reason for remaining in touch with her is because of their perceived obligations to her. For me, I would for a time either not initiate contact or initiate contact very little. And I'll say that if after the worry/wanting to keep track of how things were going sort of phase, if they continued to want to have contact with me and were the initiators of it at times, I'd have to say that apparently they do in fact actually want to keep me in their lives.

If that actually does happen, I will say that I would be a bit surprised to be honest. I mean in a way, I would be a bit baffled and surprised to be honest. I'd still have a lot of questions about what I have seen over the years that I most likely would not ever really have an answer to. And honestly, even still I would be somewhat guarded given the history. There definitely are things that there's no way in hell I would want to share with them to be honest, and if my life were to move in one of those directions, I am honestly yet again not 100% what I'd do. Though, if I did somehow end up being correct that they actually saw me and decided that they wanted me in their lives, there's probably a good chance that it'd end up being okay or at least basically okay honestly. I mean I really don't know. The nature of the issues I've had with them seem somewhat different than this given my sexual orientation and all of the things that I've mentioned, but I'll say I think there were some issues that they had with my brother as well. And he is mostly on good terms with them now.

Oh, and if me talking with them about things does end up resulting in them discarding/kicking me out on the spot even before I actually go or doing anything really drastic and unsafe for me to be around (knowing them, this honestly seems quite unlikely but you really never know for sure), I do have an emergency plan. Essentially, to make a long story short I do have some money in savings (e.g. not a huge savings to live off of but a bit to start with when it comes to security deposits and a few months when getting things started, but would definitely need a second job given the situation things are in now as what I have in my account is not much at all really..... and also is an inheritance from my grandfather), I do also work though I'd need a second job to support myself. And ultimately, what I do is something that could actually end up being a decent career plan once I get things fully launched with it. So, in a way, I'd be sort of lucky in not leaving/getting forced out with nothing and actually having something that I am skilled with that could become a decent and even lucrative career with greater experience, along with a bit of money in savings. And given the type of account I have the money in, even if they were to try and crack the account (not likely honestly) it's much more unlikely-basically impossible that they'd succeed. Because the account requires an in-person interview with a banker in order to cash in/withdraw.

And also I have talked with them about the idea of me moving out at some point, which that did go fine (despite their abuse and judgment with regard to other things in the past). A lot of people on a different site (e.g. r/raisedbynarcissists) have said given the circumstances that I should just walk out the door, that there's no way these people actually changed, etc. and that I should just leave. But seriously, I am thinking about talking with them and seeing where things go. It may well go right back to the old and familiar place of them attacking, judging, and being emotionally/verbally abusive to me. But given some aspects of the turn of events, I feel like there's a real possibility that they won't. Which is what's causing me to decide to talk to them and simply see how things are actually headed like I said. At least, I am starting to feel like I now have a plan. And I was wondering what people here think given my specific circumstances. I cannot say that I know how things will go by any stretch of the imagination, but I am thinking that this overall plan may be the best way to go about it given my specific set of circumstances.